soild fuel stove advise

gsxr1

im going up to get one of those stanley oisin stove in the morning.

What do I need to do to install it?

I am in a 2 year old home with a standard 16 " fireplace that has never been lit( so its as clean as the brickys left it).






it will sit out on the hearth but the rear of the stove should go into the fireplace a little once I have taken away the Old (brand new)removable grate.



I went to a shop in sallin and he told me the flu part would be 250 euro.

of course I giggled as that was over half the price of the stove. A bit of pipe . lord god.


Is there a cheaper option. do B&Q do flu parts ?
Why is there a need to seal the stove flu into the the existing chimney flu.

I would have though the draft that draws a normal open fire would do the same to the stove.

Doctor DooM

Moved as per OP request from home appliances.

bigstar

that draft also takes heat up your chimney, thinking of getting a wood burning stove myself. i think because a stove produces more heat than an open fire it does more damage to your chimney if its not sealed and the flue isnt lined, you should be ableto get a flue liner cheaper in a builders providers than b&q

hopalong_ie

Hi,

Said shop in Sallins you are talking of are very expensive. My advice would be to go to Finn McCarthys in Proporous. There a Builders providers/homevalue and i've found them cheapest around that way but i had a custom hearth made for less than the shop is Sallins wanted for an off the shelf. That was by the Fireplace Shop in Athy. There just off the river. No name but PM me if you want, What i'm saying is forget sallins shop. There very expensive and shop around.

gsxr1

SDooM wrote: »

Moved as per OP request from home appliances.

thanks man

hopalong_ie wrote: »

Hi,

Said shop in Sallins you are talking of are very expensive. My advice would be to go to Finn McCarthys in Proporous. There a Builders providers/homevalue and i've found them cheapest around that way but i had a custom hearth made for less than the shop is Sallins wanted for an off the shelf. That was by the Fireplace Shop in Athy. There just off the river. No name but PM me if you want, What i'm saying is forget sallins shop. There very expensive and shop around.

will ring them today. I use them every week to buy matrials for work. might get a discount.;)

bigstar wrote: »

that draft also takes heat up your chimney, thinking of getting a wood burning stove myself. i think because a stove produces more heat than an open fire it does more damage to your chimney if its not sealed and the flue isnt lined, you should be ableto get a flue liner cheaper in a builders providers than b&q

so I guess you have to pop the stove flu up the chimney around 4' then? Not the whole way up.

bigstar

as far as i know youve got to seal the gap between tha flue and stove pipe, with rockwool or fire cement but im no expert on this mate you really should get the proper advice because of the potential danger involved with a stove not being fitted correctly.

bigstar

also by looking at the picture of your fireplace, you can remove the whole fireback before you instsall your stove, and you need to make sure you have all measurements correct so the stave is not to close to the floor your fire surround etc, id get some prfessional advice first

niceirishfella

Hi,

Very simple install this....i did it - photos below.

Remove the fire grate etc.
Place stove on the hearth - buy a stove to suit the length of your hearth!
Make the hole in your fire heads a bit bigger by chipping away at the bits of concrete.
But some flexible stainless steel flue liner - you'll need maybe 6 to 8 foot of it. Any decent local Hardware will have this -more often a cut of a roll and ask for a discount so.
push it up into the fire head and up the chimney.
connect to your 90degree bend at the back of the stove.
Connect stove.
Make sure you have sufficent draw on your chimney.
Connect stove and light with a small fire for the first few days to allow the heat to bed in and not CRACK your plaster and to cure the stove itself.......a smell of the stove is normal:o
Hot tip....buy a can of black stove paint in a spray and spray the end of the stainless steel flue to blend into your fireplace and your new stove. I often meant to, but never got round to it as you can see in the pics below and its easier to do it at install.

I did this 2 years ago and have just cleaned the chimney last week with the flue in place.......easy maintenace too ...........enjoy the winter nights ahead!:)

AMHRASACH

. .what happens to the liner when you go to clean the chimney; when you push the brush up, it goes up the chimney; when you pull the brush down, it draws the liner out with the brush?

niceirishfella

No, the liner is stuck well up into the chinmey and doesn't move at all.

De_man

gsxr1; before you buy the oisin check first to see if it will fit in your fireplace
whilst a good product i don't think this is the one for your fireplace!!!!

what's your available height??? the height of the oisin is 540mm

looking at the fireplace i reckon you'll just be caught on the height, i installed one of these recently...also with the door open, the stove is 2ft , imho you need a minimum of 2' 6" hearth otherwise the floor is going to be destroyed
everytime you open the stove door

what we did was...took out the fireback, cleaned up & tiled the fireback (black tiles) so it was square and fitted the stove half way into the fireplace... (the stove stick out about 5" from the fireplace)

therefore allowing adequate room so the floor doesn't get destroyed

very neat job!!! no flu seen from the room....

don't pay the 250 euro, go to a metal fabricator, that's what i did in this instance, total flu cost 50euro:D

you'll need a reducer from the chimney liner to the flue, this allows the
stove flue to move up & down the chimney when installing/maintenance

some people use rockwool around the flue to steady/seal it, i wouldn't recommend this action, get the reducer...

as the lads said, expect a smell from the stove over a few days, infact
the last one we lit gave off a kinda blue haze in the room for the first hour


its a very straightforward job, but i must recommend you take out the fireback first

jack of all

Hi De Man, can I ask you how you clean your stove? I'm fitting one into an existing recess also (although I am stripping everything back to the builder's ope). Do you rod from the top down (roof) or do you remove the stove and rod up the chimney (sounds like grief)? Thanks in advance

gsxr1

De_man wrote: »

gsxr1; before you buy the oisin check first to see if it will fit in your fireplace
whilst a good product i don't think this is the one for your fireplace!!!!

what's your available height??? the height of the oisin is 540mm

looking at the fireplace i reckon you'll just be caught on the height, i installed one of these recently...also with the door open, the stove is 2ft , imho you need a minimum of 2' 6" hearth otherwise the floor is going to be destroyed
everytime you open the stove door

what we did was...took out the fireback, cleaned up & tiled the fireback (black tiles) so it was square and fitted the stove half way into the fireplace... (the stove stick out about 5" from the fireplace)

therefore allowing adequate room so the floor doesn't get destroyed

very neat job!!! no flu seen from the room....

don't pay the 250 euro, go to a metal fabricator, that's what i did in this instance, total flu cost 50euro:D

you'll need a reducer from the chimney liner to the flue, this allows the
stove flue to move up & down the chimney when installing/maintenance

some people use rockwool around the flue to steady/seal it, i wouldn't recommend this action, get the reducer...

as the lads said, expect a smell from the stove over a few days, infact
the last one we lit gave off a kinda blue haze in the room for the first hour


its a very straightforward job, but i must recommend you take out the fireback first

im going to get the oisin anyway to see if it will fit. I can remove the hood type thing on the fire place. If it still does not fit I will pull the lot out and do a proper job making a square tiled recess for it.

I hope it fits . I checked the drawing and the stove should just fit with 3" to spare at the front. Will see how it goes. in real life

really want this thing. hoping to save a fortune in heating as I am a chippy and have a ton of off cuts each week. Usually put to the skip. throwing away free heat.

niceirishfella

It'll fit alright.

niceirishfella

De_man wrote: »

gsxr1; before you buy the oisin check first to see if it will fit in your fireplace
whilst a good product i don't think this is the one for your fireplace!!!!

what's your available height??? the height of the oisin is 540mm

looking at the fireplace i reckon you'll just be caught on the height, i installed one of these recently...also with the door open, the stove is 2ft , imho you need a minimum of 2' 6" hearth otherwise the floor is going to be destroyed
everytime you open the stove door

what we did was...took out the fireback, cleaned up & tiled the fireback (black tiles) so it was square and fitted the stove half way into the fireplace... (the stove stick out about 5" from the fireplace)

therefore allowing adequate room so the floor doesn't get destroyed

very neat job!!! no flu seen from the room....

don't pay the 250 euro, go to a metal fabricator, that's what i did in this instance, total flu cost 50euro:D

you'll need a reducer from the chimney liner to the flue, this allows the
stove flue to move up & down the chimney when installing/maintenance

some people use rockwool around the flue to steady/seal it, i wouldn't recommend this action, get the reducer...

as the lads said, expect a smell from the stove over a few days, infact
the last one we lit gave off a kinda blue haze in the room for the first hour


its a very straightforward job, but i must recommend you take out the fireback first

Good option -

But taking out the fireback will mean not being able to use the open fire again. The way i did it was i could take out the stove, the flue and pop the open fire grate back in, in about 2 minutes.

A real plus if you're going to sell the house (i will in a few years) - offering viewers/new owners both options - a stove or open fire. Not everyone likes stoves etc.

just a thought.

De_man

niceirishfella wrote: »

Good option -

But taking out the fireback will mean not being able to use the open fire again. The way i did it was i could take out the stove, the flue and pop the open fire grate back in, in about 2 minutes.

A real plus if you're going to sell the house (i will in a few years) - offering viewers/new owners both options - a stove or open fire. Not everyone likes stoves etc.

just a thought.

good point, i thought about that, but a fire back can be installed in about
an hour (once you cut it in half - across) without removing the fireplace.


personally, i prefer an open fire but you can't argue the efficiency of a stove
as you know these things give off an unmerciful amount of heat

niceirishfella

Fair play!

Agreed on the heat........had to strip to me boxers some nights...LOL

Swimmy

Just came acroos this thread and thought I would add a comment..

I would be very careful in your approach to the installation. I too would like to install a multifuel stove into an existing fireplace and have been considering my options.

My main reason for posting was to highlight the fact that there are building regulations around the installation of solid fuel stoves and distances to combustables/non-combustables and you would want to make sure you are in compliance as if you were sellign your house in the future and the installation did not conform with the standards it could be a problem.

There are standards around the installation of flexible flues etc and how they must be insulated or back-filled we mixtures of concrete and sand.

The standard can be obtained from the UK and Irish Department of Environment Website under the building regulations.

Hope it goes well for you!

Eurorunner

Also in the process of doing exact same install as OP. That insert will have to come out won't it? If its a cast insert, it will need to be replaced with something else. I will be replacing it with granite.

As already mentioned, you will need a reducer - as you have to go from (what looks like 8" to 5" stanley flue output).
I was of the opinion that no liner was necessary in a case where theres a 8" clay chimney flue?? Any thoughts?


I'm using fireline plasterboard on back and sides (having removed fireback straight back to blockwork) - skimmed and painted.

Was also considering fitting rockwool between opening and bottom of chimney gather - held in place by a slab of fireline plasterboard - with pipe running through it in middle. Any issues with doing this?


BTW, to comply with building regs, 300mm clearance required from front of stove to front of hearth.

As regards people preferring open fires, I think there will be a rapid change of attitude on that one - and not before time!

northdublin

i have instaled a charnwood stove into my existing fireplace, which is a very small stove but even the small stoves give off enormous ammounts of heat so i would be worried about the timber mantle piece and surround could be damaged by the heat, ie blackening or splitting of the timber.

when installing my own i used a metre long piece of enameled flue from the back of the stove which was then connected to a double skinned flue liner. i didnt connect the flue liner directly to the back of the stove as i understand this can cause damage to the liner and it just looks ugly.

all the joints have to be fire cemented especially where the flue joins the liner to stop gasses flowing back down into the room. if you dont line the flue or insulate it propperly you will get condensation problems and the gasses flowing up from the stove will cool too quickly and leave a tar deposit which can cause chiminey fires.
its not just a matter of placing the stove in the hearth and sticking the flue up the existing chimney, every house is differant and if you have the edge of a liner stuck up into an existing flue this will create a surface for soot and tar to sit and cause a potential fire in the future. if in doubt of the condition of the existing flue and to prevent the gasses escaping into your neighbors or your own house the liner should go right to the top and a suitable cowl fitted

gsxr1

northdublin wrote: »

i have instaled a charnwood stove into my existing fireplace, which is a very small stove but even the small stoves give off enormous ammounts of heat so i would be worried about the timber mantle piece and surround could be damaged by the heat, ie blackening or splitting of the timber.

when installing my own i used a metre long piece of enameled flue from the back of the stove which was then connected to a double skinned flue liner. i didnt connect the flue liner directly to the back of the stove as i understand this can cause damage to the liner and it just looks ugly.

all the joints have to be fire cemented especially where the flue joins the liner to stop gasses flowing back down into the room. if you dont line the flue or insulate it properly you will get condensation problems and the gasses flowing up from the stove will cool too quickly and leave a tar deposit which can cause chiminey fires.



make the connection into the the stove with some type of sealant paste.
its not just a matter of placing the stove in the hearth and sticking the flue up the existing chimney, every house is differant and if you have the edge of a liner stuck up into an existing flue this will create a surface for soot and tar to sit and cause a potential fire in the future. if in doubt of the condition of the existing flue and to prevent the gasses escaping into your neighbors or your own house the liner should go right to the top and a suitable cowl fitted

so my understanding so far is.

For the best job I such buy rock wool, flexi pipe and some 45, 90 and a straight length.

drop the flexi down the chimney to go the whole way to make a connection with a solid steel or stainless straight. center this in the flu and insulate the gap by stuffing as much rockwool around . use fire cement to seal the rockwool in. ( 0r get a reducer)

If I use a reducer a few feet up. Will I still have to use insulation to protect my chimney?

Have rockwool somewhere.



I will see how I fair with my timber mantel. I dont intend to have the stove going flat out as my room is not big. but it does have a door less staircase that lead to the landing. The rad is not enough to heat it all.




copied and pasted from some site.

Using an existing chimneyWith a stove, 80% of the heat goes into the room, with an open fire 80% of the heat goes up the chimney and this means that the smoke from a stove is great deal cooler than from a fireplace. The result of this is that a stove will usually never manage to bring a masonry chimney up to operating temerature. This can mean that the stove will never draw properly, and the cooling smoke will condense, causing excess soot and, more dangerously, tar deposits. Tar deposits are not removed by a sweeps brush and cause chimney fires and you may get black tarry condensate leaking out through the bottom and sometimes even through the mortar joints of the chimney.

For this reason it is good practise to line and insulate a chimney whenever you fit a stove - see Lining a Chimney

We can liase with your builder and supply all the materials he will need to complete the chimney lining job.

De_man

Swimmy wrote: »

There are standards around the installation of flexible flues etc and how they must be insulated or back-filled we mixtures of concrete and sand.

1. thats correct, personally i wouldn't use the flexi pipe for the installation

btw i did ask when purchasing our stoves (X 3) about lining the chimney, was told not required...

2. gsxr1 keep an eye on your fireplace i'm afraid your fireplace could be scorched by the heat

3. joints in the flue to be sealed up (fire cement or equiv) available
in tubes so you can use your "silicone gun"

4. no insulation required to protect chimney

to eurorunner,,, i reckon that job is fine, we made the mistake (saw a photo)
we plastered/skimmed where 2 stoves were going,,,,the paint blistered from the heat turned out a complete waste of time,,,took all the crap off and tiled up instead

btw that 300mm clearance, is that from the stove with door closed or door open i wonder? (i don't have my building regs manual anymore)

De_man

gsxr1 wrote: »

copied and pasted from some site.

For this reason it is good practise to line and insulate a chimney whenever you fit a stove

i'm going to recheck this today with our supplier, i'll post back the information
i get back,
i accept the explaination given but we have no problem
with the draw in our chimney,
only issue i had...rushing to get one up and running i didn't use a reducer, but rockwool around the flue to steady it in the chimney,

i reckon when doing so i partially blocked the flue, huge amount of soot in the flue when i went to redo the job installing the reducer

De_man

gsxr1; i've just checked with our stove supplier

if it was an oil burning stove, yes a liner is recommended

For solid fuel stove, it's not required, once the chimney is in good condition
otherwise a liner would be required.

the installation of the stove is very straightforward, hope you have many
years of "free heat" the timber off-cuts are the job, for the first few days
have the fire fairly small, infact open the window the first time you light it
ensure the room is well ventilated.

must try to figure out how to post pics here

gsxr1

De_man wrote: »

gsxr1; i've just checked with our stove supplier

if it was an oil burning stove, yes a liner is recommended

For solid fuel stove, it's not required, once the chimney is in good condition
otherwise a liner would be required.

the installation of the stove is very straightforward, hope you have many
years of "free heat" the timber off-cuts are the job, for the first few days
have the fire fairly small, infact open the window the first time you light it
ensure the room is well ventilated.

must try to figure out how to post pics here

thanks for you and everyone else for your help. I know I can google advise ,but if rairly will give you real peoples experiences in Ireland.

filled the van with off cuts today.

for posting pics. Use this site www.lookpic.com upload your pic and copy and paste the BB code from the photo you just uploaded to your boards .ie reply. its simple enough.;)



no work lined up for tomorrow so I will buy the stove in the morning.

will keep yas posted

gabbo is coming

Hello

Couple of simple questions-

How much is an Oisin?(Roughly)

My room is about 15 ft x 30ft with the fire slap bang in the middle. Is an Oisin too powerful / not powerful enough?

What's does it mean by second burn? It burns the smoke or keeps it in the chamber for heating? Does the Oisin do this - Waterford Stanley site is brutal.

Can you burn briquettes and/or coal - or does it have to be wood?

I heard Olsberg are good - anyone know where they are sold?


I went to boards to ask these questions and more - only to find the first thread about stoves. Must be a cold recession wind coming!

gabbo is coming

BTW - my fireplace is identical to the chap who started this thread. By my measurements, it'll come out to within 100mm of the edge of the granite heart, in my case.

This is a lot less than the 300mm previously mentioned. Anyone know if 100mm from edge of granite to edge of oisin is enough?

gsxr1

gabbo is coming wrote: »

BTW - my fireplace is identical to the chap who started this thread. By my measurements, it'll come out to within 100mm of the edge of the granite heart, in my case.

This is a lot less than the 300mm previously mentioned. Anyone know if 100mm from edge of granite to edge of oisin is enough?

It is not ideal , but i have seen them around the 100 mark and they worked fine. I think one should just use a little more caution whan opening the door. I intend to keep a big tile in the room to cover the floor when opening.
www.gings.ie has the one you are after at a reduced price of 400 euro. they have loads up there.

edit.... they have bumped the price up the feckers.

Swimmy

I might be wrong but my understanding is that it is 300mm in from of the stove to protect the floor with 300mm being a minimum for combustable materials! I don't think the installation would comply with the regs otherwise. a good rule of thumb is that the door of the stove when open should not overhang the edge of the hearth.

In relation to lining the flue, it is true that it is not a requirement, however as previous posters have mentioned for good stove performance and safety reasons it is better to line the flue. It is a simple job to do with the liners and accessories and even stoves being alot cheaper in the UK. Some companies do deliver to Ireland. Most of the irish suppliers I have gone to have recommended I line the flue and this is on a new house!

I got a quote for a stove last weekend and I checked the price in the UK and it was half what it is here!

Best of luck with the installation.

De_man

gabbo is coming wrote: »

Hello

Couple of simple questions-

How much is an Oisin?(Roughly)

My room is about 15 ft x 30ft with the fire slap bang in the middle. Is an Oisin too powerful / not powerful enough?

What's does it mean by second burn? It burns the smoke or keeps it in the chamber for heating? Does the Oisin do this - Waterford Stanley site is brutal.

Can you burn briquettes and/or coal - or does it have to be wood?

I heard Olsberg are good - anyone know where they are sold?


I went to boards to ask these questions and more - only to find the first thread about stoves. Must be a cold recession wind coming!

1. about 450 if i remember rightly

2. you could do with a bit more imho

3. dunno, i must ask senior management,, she's the stove expert

4. anything you want to burn, coal wood etc

5. sorry don't know anything about olsberg, we've the oisin purely
due to the size of the fireplace opening and room size.
and two nestor martins
www.nestormartin.be

northdublin

it was recomended to me to line my flue as i cant ensure that the flue has any gaps or cracks that might let gasses or deposits trough into my neighbours ajoining chimney or into my attic. the only way of knowing is to get a cctv survey. ive seen a few installs that simply dont work cause the flue is too wide and there isnt enough draw, meaning depending on the wind direction the room fills with smoke.
if the flue from the stove is just placed up the existing chimney you need to ensure the soot doesnt sit at this point either by sloping the joint with cement so it falls back into the stove flue and into the stove or have a soot door built into the brest to access the area to remove the soot.
this link shows roughly how i did mine http://www.log-onto-fires.com/diagram2.jpg