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Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

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  • Options
    #1922
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    The ignore button is just easier. Life is too short.

    Even shorter for some people who contract Covid.


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    #1923
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    carq wrote: »
    Lol - sure buddy.
    ignore you go.

    Shame. Sure didn’t you learn all about false and negative positivity rates by interacting with me.

    Ignore away but we all can learn from each other.


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    #1924
    Humilde
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Humilde


    carq wrote: »
    Lol - sure buddy.
    ignore you go.

    You're better off not engaging with this guy. This whole thing is wrecking our heads enough without a pleb who doesn't know how to behave in a civilised debate.


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    #1925
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,858 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    karlitob wrote: »
    Even shorter for some people who contract Covid.

    And for many of those who miss their cancer screenings.


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    #1926
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    And for many of those who miss their cancer screenings.


    And for those who lost their job and fall into severe depression.


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    #1927
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    And for many of those who miss their cancer screenings.

    You miss understand screening. And cancer detection.

    Restriction of screening for a few months in a healthy population will not lead to, nor is there any evidence to suggest, large numbers of cancer deaths.


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    #1928
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Humilde wrote: »
    You're better off not engaging with this guy. This whole thing is wrecking our heads enough without a pleb who doesn't know how to behave in a civilised debate.

    Yep - don’t engage in fact or discussion. Not answering my points is not particularly civilised either.


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    #1929
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    karlitob wrote: »
    You miss understand screening. And cancer detection.

    Restriction of screening for a few months in a healthy population will not lead to, nor is there any evidence to suggest, large numbers of cancer deaths.

    Troll tw@t, just the deaths of some people who definitely could of been saved and in the prime if their life not end.


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    #1930
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    And for those who lost their job and fall into severe depression.

    And for those watching football on tv without fans in the stadium.


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    #1931
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Interesting

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/nphet-letter-predicts-50-daily-cases-by-christmas-after-six-week-lockdown-1.4385504

    R rate in Dublin is 1.
    By 31st October, Nphet warned there would be 450-600 people in hospital and 80-110 people in intensive care.

    Given that 31 October is already set in stone with existing infections it will be interesting to see what is actually the outcome in terms of numbers.

    Although the R number can be skewed by a small number of bad outbreaks, in particular at a county level, that news is positive. Its good news that Dublins came down to 1 while it was under Level 3.


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    #1932
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    carq wrote: »
    Lol - sure buddy.
    ignore you go.
    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    The ignore button is just easier. Life is too short.

    I would be wary of using the ignore button. You can end up making an echo chamber for yourselves. :(


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    #1933
    galway_cowboy
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭galway_cowboy


    karlitob wrote: »
    You miss understand screening. And cancer detection.

    Restriction of screening for a few months in a healthy population will not lead to, nor is there any evidence to suggest, large numbers of cancer deaths.

    Meanwhile, in our neighbour's house
    THE number of people dying at home from illnesses other than Covid-19 has rocketed since lockdown.

    Figures from the Office for National Statistics for March to September reveal that almost 1,000 deaths are being recorded every week — up 26,000 on the same period last year.

    Among the biggest killers are diabetes (up 86 per cent), Parkinson’s (79 per cent), prostate cancer (53 per cent), breast cancer (47 per cent) and bowel cancer (46 per cent). Deaths among women with dementia have jumped 75 per cent. Prof Karol Sikora, director of cancer care provider Rutherford Health, said it was time to ask ‘difficult questions to avoid even more unnecessary deaths’. The leading oncologist added: ‘Covid-19 kills… but so does lockdown,’

    Fiona Carragher, of the Alzheimer’s Society and former deputy chief scientific officer of NHS England, blamed the ‘dreadful side-effects of lockdown’. She added: ‘Isolation, fear and suspension of health and social care services will have contributed to the catastrophic increase in people with dementia dying. We saw it in care homes and now we’re seeing the impact in the community.’

    Another 80 coronavirus deaths were recorded yesterday, alongside 18,804 new cases — up from 16,982 on Sunday.

    The ONS figures reveal there were 27million fewer GP appointments between March and August than in the same period last year.

    https://www.metro.news/350000-referrals-for-cancer-patients-missed-since-march/2190294/


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    #1934
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Nphet have all the stats compiled since March. They know about every single case and hospitalised person. Every person in ICU and everyone who died.

    Publish these stats.
    You know, ffs stop hiding the data and tell us.

    Can we put in a FOI request? Why isn't there one decent journo left to ask Dr Tony to tell us what we need to know.
    Humilde wrote: »
    how many are now in hospital, how many are in ICU? This is the real test to see whats going on.

    They have a webpage where this information is published.
    They make graphs and tables on the HSE twitter page to make the information easier to view.

    https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1316801034350727178


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    #1935
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    md23040 wrote: »
    A few doctors posted an open letter to the Irish government prior to lockdown asserting that trying to suppress a virulent virus temporarily is too damaging in its wider implications for the economy and society.
    https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/blog/5rsimg088ywiduxo1d5dg31z3g3yl0


    Your link appears to be an anonymous blog post. Do you have any better source?
    Who are the "Few doctors" that you mention, and assuming that these are medical doctors, why are they commenting on economics? :confused:


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    #1936
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    McHardcore wrote: »
    They have a webpage where this information is published.
    They make graphs and tables on the HSE twitter page to make the information easier to view.

    https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1316801034350727178


    Oh.

    They are publishing useful stats. Great.
    Do you have one where I can check the number of positive cases in schools.
    Id also like to know the number of positive cases in children in pimary schools that they think were passed on to anyone else.
    And if you have time if you could root out the age profiles of the ones in ICU.
    Like the actual ages.

    Oh and the amount of children who are being tested in a class room when one child who was in the classroom is found to be positive. The average will do.

    Thanks. Fair play to you.


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    #1937
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    karlitob wrote: »
    A give over.

    Sure the HSE must run the French, Spanish, British, Portuguese test and trace the way you’re going on. Sure they’re no where near where we are.

    You cannot introduce an end to end test and trace system in a month or so. It’s impossible - like it is for any company, any country, anywhere. It’s an excellent job that’s being done.

    In the end, it’s only a tool and relies on people following droplet precautions. If people complied, there would be less pressure on the system.

    Thanks for the laugh, I needed one this morning. I'm not quite clear if you're trolling at this point, but your desperate need to defend the HSE at all costs is genuinely hilarious.

    That's a pretty pathetic attempt at moving the goalposts. I said there was a claim in April that there would be 100,000 tests a week by the end of May. You said that was by the CMO, not the HSE. I provided a link to where the head of the HSE promised 100k tests every week from mid-May; you've completely failed to acknowledge that your previous attempt to attribute that statement to the CMO was a lie, plus you switch to talking about an " an end to end test and trace system". And also attempt to muddy the water by rambling about other countries.

    The HSE is doing an excellent job of spectacularly failing to live up to their own promises. Just accept it.

    karlitob wrote: »
    The guidelines healthcare professionals follow when they are treating patients with droplet precaution infections.

    My point is that - I know that government hasn’t recommended Face masks outside by why would anyone put themselves in the position of being a close contract (where the healthcare professionals guidelines would be to wear a mask) without even wearing a mask.

    So you think that people walking around outdoors should be constantly taking the same precautions as healthcare professionals do while treating suspected positive cases in enclosed settings. On a regular basis.

    That's honestly one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. Aside from the fact that the risk levels in the two scenarios are wildly at odds, you bizarrely seem to want to put those healthcare professionals at risk.
    If the genera public were to follow the same guidelines on a constant basis, then we would very quickly run out of the medical-grade PPE those healthcare professionals rely on. Not sure what you have against frontline medical staff that you'd want to put their lives at risk.


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    #1938
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    McHardcore wrote: »
    They have a webpage where this information is published.
    They make graphs and tables on the HSE twitter page to make the information easier to view.

    https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1316801034350727178

    There's also additional reports on clusters and underlying conditions on the HPSC website.

    And for international comparisons this seems quite good. The data sources are well documented, and for Ireland anyway they use that ArcGIS data so they seem legit.


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    #1939
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Oh.

    They are publishing useful stats. Great.

    Thanks. Fair play to you.

    Your welcome :)


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    #1940
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    Troll tw@t, just the deaths of some people who definitely could of been saved and in the prime if their life not end.

    That’s what I expect from the likes of you Kenneth. All this stuff is too complex and you descend into name calling.

    Screening is done on a healthy population. Screening (cervical) is not diagnostic.
    Screening has been shown to increase survival rates but that’s likely due to knowing about it earlier rather than elongating life.
    The improvements in cancer survival rates are due to improvements in procedures and treatments, not screening.
    Clinical signs often provide sufficient Time for investigation and treatment with successful outcome.
    The cost effectiveness of a screening programme is not well established.

    HIQA advises cervical screening to change its screening tool to HPV primary screening and to push out screening appointments from 3-5 years. These last few months will have minimal effect of any on the detection rate of cancers - which of course is different from mortality and survival rates as I’m sure you know.

    All of this was clearly explained throughout the cervical check scandal.


    Regardless of all this. To suggest that a few months without screening - which is back up but people are not attending because they are afraid of picking up Covid because other people are not washing their hands and following droplet precautions - is going to end with a potential deluge of deaths from cancer - when we’re face with actual deaths from a pandemic is pure scaremongering.


    Besides - you can’t have it both ways.

    You can want screening to be uninterrupted and then complain about restrictions and say that you’re not adhering to restrictions. This is the point that we’re at. Unless we keep the virus under control - everything else will be affected.


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    #1941
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    MOH wrote: »
    Thanks for the laugh, I needed one this morning. I'm not quite clear if you're trolling at this point, but your desperate need to defend the HSE at all costs is genuinely hilarious.

    That's a pretty pathetic attempt at moving the goalposts. I said there was a claim in April that there would be 100,000 tests a week by the end of May. You said that was by the CMO, not the HSE. I provided a link to where the head of the HSE promised 100k tests every week from mid-May; you've completely failed to acknowledge that your previous attempt to attribute that statement to the CMO was a lie, plus you switch to talking about an " an end to end test and trace system". And also attempt to muddy the water by rambling about other countries.

    The HSE is doing an excellent job of spectacularly failing to live up to their own promises. Just accept it.




    So you think that people walking around outdoors should be constantly taking the same precautions as healthcare professionals do while treating suspected positive cases in enclosed settings. On a regular basis.

    That's honestly one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. Aside from the fact that the risk levels in the two scenarios are wildly at odds, you bizarrely seem to want to put those healthcare professionals at risk.
    If the genera public were to follow the same guidelines on a constant basis, then we would very quickly run out of the medical-grade PPE those healthcare professionals rely on. Not sure what you have against frontline medical staff that you'd want to put their lives at risk.

    Talk about moving the goalposts.

    Off you go and stand within two metres of a person face to face taking for longer than 15 minutes - at all or without a mask.


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    #1942
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    karlitob wrote: »
    Talk about moving the goalposts.

    Off you go and stand within two metres of a person face to face taking for longer than 15 minutes - at all or without a mask.

    Not sure I follow how I moved the goalposts? You insisted the entire population should follow the same protocols as frontline healthcare professionals and I pointed out an obvious logical flaw with that.

    I sat within two metres of another person talking for about 90 minutes at dinner the other night, does that count?
    Also ran into someone I knew the day before and stood talking to them for a bit without a mask, think that was only 14.5 minutes though so according to you I should be fine.

    I also notice you've failed to address any of the other points about your repeated lying or diverting the topic whenever anyone calls you out on the lies you're telling.


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    #1943
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    McHardcore wrote: »
    I would be wary of using the ignore button. You can end up making an echo chamber for yourselves. :(

    I have used it once. And no problem being called up on stuff. Just don’t need to be insulted in the process.


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    #1944
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭karlitob


    MOH wrote: »
    Not sure I follow how I moved the goalposts? You insisted the entire population should follow the same protocols as frontline healthcare professionals and I pointed out an obvious logical flaw with that.

    I sat within two metres of another person talking for about 90 minutes at dinner the other night, does that count?
    Also ran into someone I knew the day before and stood talking to them for a bit without a mask, think that was only 14.5 minutes though so according to you I should be fine.

    I also notice you've failed to address any of the other points about your repeated lying or diverting the topic whenever anyone calls you out on the lies you're telling.

    No I didn’t I just said I was surprised. You’re trying to put words in my mouth.

    And I hope you are fine. 15 minutes is the international standard definition for Close contact but never mind that.


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    #1945
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    McHardcore wrote: »
    Your welcome :)


    Are you sure you dont work for NPHET. :)

    Youve just done something they seem to be doing.
    Showing only parts of the picture to give the picture you wanted to.
    Bravo.


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    #1946
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Youve just done something they seem to be doing.
    Showing only parts of the picture to give the picture you wanted to.
    Bravo.

    You are are going to have to clarify yourself. :confused:
    I was answering Humildes and NIMANs post looking for the number that are in hospital, in ICU and have died. I gave a link to the figures on the HSEs website and twitter feed to help answer their request. If you dont agree with my post, that doesn't mean that I work for NPHET.
    McHardcore wrote: »
    Humilde wrote: »
    how many are now in hospital, how many are in ICU? This is the real test to see whats going on.

    They have a webpage where this information is published.


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    #1947
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Are you sure you dont work for NPHET. :)

    Youve just done something they seem to be doing.
    Showing only parts of the picture to give the picture you wanted to.
    Bravo.

    C'mon, if they worked for NPHET they would have used the correct spelling of 'you're,' not 'your.' :pac:


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    #1948
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    karlitob wrote: »
    That’s what I expect from the likes of you Kenneth. All this stuff is too complex and you descend into name calling.

    Screening is done on a healthy population. Screening (cervical) is not diagnostic.
    Screening has been shown to increase survival rates but that’s likely due to knowing about it earlier rather than elongating life.
    The improvements in cancer survival rates are due to improvements in procedures and treatments, not screening.
    Clinical signs often provide sufficient Time for investigation and treatment with successful outcome.
    The cost effectiveness of a screening programme is not well established.

    I'm not sure that's true. The reason cervical checks are so important is they look for precancerous cells. It's important to catch it at the very earliest stages.


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    #1949
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    karlitob wrote: »
    Talk about moving the goalposts.

    Off you go and stand within two metres of a person face to face taking for longer than 15 minutes - at all or without a mask.
    There are other choices here. Inside or out? With or without COVID? Infectious or not?


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    #1950
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,212 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Dose it look now like NPHET panicked with pushing for a level5 lockdown. We are now seeing the effects of the level3+ lockdown. Would level3+ have carried us back down slowly and to controlled situation. We were in level3+ for only two weeks. During that two weeks NPHET looked for level5 about 2-3 times. This put immense pressure on Government. You had George Lee giving doom and gloom newscasts that panicked the public.

    It looks like what we needed with level 3 was enforcement of the house parties rules and we might have trundled along with a fairly open economy compared to present lockdown

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #1951
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,529 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Dose it look now like NPHET panicked with pushing fir a level5 lockdown.

    Careful now, you'll be condemned as a blasphemer and an unbeliever. Some folks have a mad horn for lockdowns.


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