Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Captain_Crash · 20-10-2020 8:29am

Aph2016 wrote: »

How about NPHET stop trying to predict, and look at actual data for once? None of the predictions have been anyway near correct, in fact they've been miles off.

Nolan went on a rant on Twitter in Sept saying that if trends continue well see 5000 cases a day by mid October and hundreds of deaths! Trends got worse and we have been no where near that! Infact, I think every single prediction NPHET have put out to date has been way off the mark!

Wanderer78 · 20-10-2020 8:30am

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Nolan went on a rant on Twitter in Sept saying that if trends continue well see 5000 cases a day by mid October and hundreds of deaths! Trends got worse and we have been no where near that! Infact, I think every single prediction NPHET have put out to date has been way off the mark!

'all models are wrong, but some are useful'!

Captain_Crash · 20-10-2020 8:30am

JimmyVik wrote: »

100% agree with this.
No reason to keep accurate stats from the public. Well there is one reason.
Wouldnt be the first time FF or FG tried to hide things that cost lives.
You wouyld think they would have learned their lesson and had total honesty with the people of Ireland on such a serious issue.

If you talking about what I think your talking about, let’s not forget who’s still CMO and de-facto running the country!

Sheep breeder · 20-10-2020 8:38am

Just thinking here, can everybody with hand on their hearts say honestly that they are ok to contract covid 19 and it won’t effect them in any shape or form or that they can pass it on to a family member with out any problem for them or their health. Question to ask can I get sick or can my family get sick without killing somebody.
In our house my daughter is high risk, my elderly mother in her house, my brother in-law after a serious operation, in work a guy after a liver transplant,
Covid doesn’t choose who gets, we do with our selfish actions.

Wanderer78 · 20-10-2020 8:39am

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Just thinking here, can everybody with hand on their hearts say honestly that they are ok to contract covid 19 and it won’t effect them in any shape or form or that they can pass it on to a family member with out any problem for them or their health. Question to ask can I get sick or can my family get sick without killing somebody.
In our house my daughter is high risk, my elderly mother in her house, my brother in-law after a serious operation, in work a guy after a liver transplant,
Covid doesn’t choose who gets, we do with our selfish actions.

....and fcuk ups also happen, best of luck with things

sydthebeat · 20-10-2020 8:43am

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Just thinking here, can everybody with hand on their hearts say honestly that they are ok to contract covid 19 and it won’t effect them in any shape or form or that they can pass it on to a family member with out any problem for them or their health. Question to ask can I get sick or can my family get sick without killing somebody.
In our house my daughter is high risk, my elderly mother in her house, my brother in-law after a serious operation, in work a guy after a liver transplant,
Covid doesn’t choose who gets, we do with our selfish actions.

Very much victim blaming there.

Its a matter of luck whether you get this thing or not.

Shaming someone for bringing into their house is dangerous and incredibly damaging to that person should it lead to serious implications.

Be very careful when you throw blame around

Happydays2020 · 20-10-2020 8:44am

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Just thinking here, can everybody with hand on their hearts say honestly that they are ok to contract covid 19 and it won’t effect them in any shape or form or that they can pass it on to a family member with out any problem for them or their health. Question to ask can I get sick or can my family get sick without killing somebody.
In our house my daughter is high risk, my elderly mother in her house, my brother in-law after a serious operation, in work a guy after a liver transplant,
Covid doesn’t choose who gets, we do with our selfish actions.

No one wants it. But where will people get it - will they get it in arnotts with a mask on or in a supermarket, or in Ikea? In a swimming pool? Very unlikely on all counts. In a large church? All closed.

Where is it likely they will get it? At house parties - whether communions, baptisms, student parties Etc. And dare I say it - in classrooms.

Happydays2020 · 20-10-2020 8:50am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Very much victim blaming there.

Its a matter of luck whether you get this thing or not.

Shaming someone for bringing into their house is dangerous and incredibly damaging to that person should it lead to serious implications.

Be very careful when you throw blame around

This demonising of people will just mean that people with mild symptoms will probably not get tested.

carq · 20-10-2020 9:33am

karlitob wrote: »

Well I wouldn’t expect you to know about the intricacies of Covid-19 testing. Why would you know it. It’s for public health experts who given a career to it.
And it’s for that same reason why I won’t be listening to your opinion of how we should be testing.
I’m not trying to be rude but it always amazes me while joe soap think he or she knows more than people who’ve given their careers to know this stuff.

Some simple reading for you

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-there-is-some-good-news-in-the-latest-covid-19-data-1.4364777%3fmode=amp

Thanks for your condescending post.
Some of the words are too hard for me to read - can you explain some of them for me ?

Keyboard wars aside - thanks for the article regarding false positive rates.
So at 140 cases / 100000 testing is 93 % accurate

At the lower national incidence rate of 70 cases per 100,000, testing 100,000 people would find 69 of the 70 truly infected (98 per cent of 70), but also wrongly designate 10 uninfected individuals as infected (0.01 per cent of 100,000), yielding a “true-positive” rate of 69/80 or about 87 per cent.

This is still a high %. I would rather isolate for 2 weeks with a false positive than lockdown the whole country.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 9:37am

JimmyVik wrote: »

100% agree with this.
No reason to keep accurate stats from the public. Well there is one reason.
Wouldnt be the first time FF or FG tried to hide things that cost lives.
You wouyld think they would have learned their lesson and had total honesty with the people of Ireland on such a serious issue.

The system is not built to determine source but to stop transmission. You might not like to hear that but that’s the purpose of test and trace. It’s to identify people, their close contacts and have them follow guidelines. While it can be clear sometimes it not clear most times.
I know what you’re going to say about schools and pubs and why isn’t this open and why is that closed.
I can only reference what the experts reference. There are international studies - not only for Covid but also other diseases over the years on how viruses spread.
I’m not necessarily trying to defend them but just to note that the system is not built for, and even if it were may not be successful or effective, in determining the true source. That’s why clusters and outbreaks are so important. They are all published on the hpsc website - always - before Covid - for all notifiable diseases. Community transmission is high. How are the hpsc supposed to find out the source when ⅓ of cases are community transmission - which is medical speak for the person who is infected doesn’t know exactly where they were or who they may have gotten it from.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 9:42am

carq wrote: »

Thanks for your condescending post.
Some of the words are too hard for me to read - can you explain some of them for me ?

Keyboard wars aside - thanks for the article regarding false positive rates.
So at 140 cases / 100000 testing is 93 % accurate

This is still a high %. I would rather isolate for 2 weeks with a false positive than lockdown the whole country.

And I genuinely do mean to be condescending. But I put myself beside you in that.. Your opinion is not required or needed. It’s yours. No one cares about it. Same with me and mine. People seem to have the opinion that their opinion is somehow insightful and needs to be listened to. It doesn’t. Neither does mine. So I repeat. I wouldn’t expect you to know.

I trust our experts. What would I know about it? I can read this stuff - commentators on here read other stuff. We all come to our own conclusions that suit our agenda. But the fact of the matter is that whatever we read is only a small part of the knowledge that these people have. They’ve spent a career on it.

And before anyone goes mad - I’m talking about test and trace not all bs about how nphet don’t know the real world....wherever that is.

Happy to explain any words you want. I have some training in this area.

carq · 20-10-2020 9:45am

karlitob wrote: »

And I genuinely do mean to be condescending. But I put myself beside you in that.. Your opinion is not required or needed. It’s yours. No one cares about it. Same with me and mine. People seem to have the opinion that their opinion is somehow insightful and needs to be listened to. It doesn’t. Neither does mine. So I repeat. I wouldn’t expect you to know.

I trust our experts. What would I know about it? I can read this stuff - commentators on here read other stuff. We all come to our own conclusions that suit our agenda. But the fact of the matter is that whatever we read is only a small part of the knowledge that these people have. They’ve spent a career on it.

And before anyone goes mad - I’m talking about test and trace not all bs about how nphet don’t know the real world....wherever that is.

Happy to explain any words you want. I have some training in this area.

oh my god.
This is a discussion forum.
You are happy to give your own opinions but try an belittle anyone who voices theirs.
Maybe you dont understand the purpose of a discussion forum ?

I'm happy to explain the concept to you.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 9:52am

carq wrote: »

Keyboard wars aside - thanks for the article regarding false positive rates.
So at 140 cases / 100000 testing is 93 % accurate

This is still a high %. I would rather isolate for 2 weeks with a false positive than lockdown the whole country.

Well the problem is the false negatives rather than false positives.

No one knows where a positive (Detected) is A false positive or true positive when the result comes in - it wouldn’t be a false positive then.

At a current positivity rate of 7.3%, that’s 7300 people who are positive. You can’t isolate 140 False positives from those.

And while you might self isolate in the event of a false positive (or indeed a true positive) - it’s Pretty plain to see that a significant quantity of people who are detected don’t share your view and are no self isolating and not following droplet precautions. So it makes the whole thing pretty useless - it’s the not the restrictions that are useless, it’s the compliance with them by people who are detected as positive for the virus.

And when we don’t know how the transmission is occurring because people won’t self isolate when detected positive, that leads to a huge increase in community transmission - which is doctor talk for we don’t know where the source is (about ⅓ At the moment) because Positive people are going to loads of places and not keeping track of who they meet. Making test and trace pointless, overwhelmed and extra complex.

When we don’t know where the virus is you can’t have a regional or specific restrictions, you have To go into to lockdown to get control of the virus again.

Again - it’s down to human behaviour. We can’t have no restrictions and no virus. There has to be a balance; some areas will need to be prioritised and everyone has to do their part.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 9:54am

carq wrote: »

oh my god.
This is a discussion forum.
You are happy to give your own opinions but try an belittle anyone who voices theirs.
Maybe you dont understand the purpose of a discussion forum ?

I'm happy to explain the concept to you.

I am discussing. You’re not liking what I have to say. In any discussion, your opinion is not a gospel and doesn’t have to be accepted in any shape or form, nor given equal weight to someone else’s.

I’ve put my opinion in the same box as yours and anyone else on here. You wanted to be smart about hard words so I was smart back.

Humilde · 20-10-2020 9:55am

Very revealing in terms of what NPHET and the shambolic government (all parties included) are using to lockdown the whole bloody place.

COVID DEATHS = Deaths by ANY cause that have had a + test within 28 days

HOSPITALISATION = Being admitted to hospital for ANYTHING, within 14 days of a + test, or testing + whilst in hospital

PATIENTS IN VENTILATOR BEDS = only a % will have had/need ventilation

We are being lied to left right and centre. This is a full on attack on the citizens of our country by a bungling political class and a jumped up medical cabal who only want to listen to one side of the debate. The amount of eminent scientists and medics coming out against the disastrous management of this across the globe is increasing all the time. The problem is that it will be too late when the whole country is sunk in debt forever more and the real people of this country will be left to pick up the pieces. Expect another universal surcharge coming down the road soon to pay for this economic armageddon. I reckon that its time for people to hit the streets and demand openness on all of this or else the physical, mental and economic future of our kids will be dire.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 9:56am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Very much victim blaming there.

Its a matter of luck whether you get this thing or not.

Shaming someone for bringing into their house is dangerous and incredibly damaging to that person should it lead to serious implications.

Be very careful when you throw blame around

Haha victim blaming when it comes to a virus. I’ve heard it all now.

Act as though you have the virus and don’t want to harm other people. It’s really that simple.

Is the coronavirus ‘woke’? Discuss.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 9:58am

Humilde wrote: »

Very revealing in terms of what NPHET and the shambolic government (all parties included) are using to lockdown the whole bloody place.

COVID DEATHS = Deaths by ANY cause that have had a + test within 28 days

HOSPITALISATION = Being admitted to hospital for ANYTHING, within 14 days of a + test, or testing + whilst in hospital

PATIENTS IN VENTILATOR BEDS = only a % will have had/need ventilation

We are being lied to left right and centre. This is a full on attack on the citizens of our country by a bungling political class and a jumped up medical cabal who only want to listen to one side of the debate. The amount of eminent scientists and medics coming out against the disastrous management of this across the globe is increasing all the time. The problem is that it will be too late when the whole country is sunk in debt forever more and the real people of this country will be left to pick up the pieces. Expect another universal surcharge coming down the road soon to pay for this economic armageddon. I reckon that its time for people to hit the streets and demand openness on all of this or else the physical, mental and economic future of our kids will be dire.

Am amazing way to view the world. You must see threats around every corner.

Off you go and hit the streets. Not sure what openness you seek? Have you a list of data that you need?

karlitob · 20-10-2020 10:03am

Humilde wrote: »

Very revealing in terms of what NPHET and the shambolic government (all parties included) are using to lockdown the whole bloody place.

COVID DEATHS = Deaths by ANY cause that have had a + test within 28 days

HOSPITALISATION = Being admitted to hospital for ANYTHING, within 14 days of a + test, or testing + whilst in hospital

PATIENTS IN VENTILATOR BEDS = only a % will have had/need ventilation

We are being lied to left right and centre. This is a full on attack on the citizens of our country by a bungling political class and a jumped up medical cabal who only want to listen to one side of the debate. The amount of eminent scientists and medics coming out against the disastrous management of this across the globe is increasing all the time. The problem is that it will be too late when the whole country is sunk in debt forever more and the real people of this country will be left to pick up the pieces. Expect another universal surcharge coming down the road soon to pay for this economic armageddon. I reckon that its time for people to hit the streets and demand openness on all of this or else the physical, mental and economic future of our kids will be dire.

You never replied to my last post of what information you want.

You remember - the one where I put up All the information you said wasn’t been given but was.

You mean it’s publicly available information provided every day since March. Get off the tin hat.

https://www.hse.ie/eng...-19-october-2020.pdf

https://www.hse.ie/eng...rations-updates.html

https://www.hse.ie/eng...tracing-updates.html

https://covid19ireland...hive.hub.arcgis.com/

Happydays2020 · 20-10-2020 10:03am

carq wrote: »

oh my god.
This is a discussion forum.
You are happy to give your own opinions but try an belittle anyone who voices theirs.
Maybe you dont understand the purpose of a discussion forum ?

I'm happy to explain the concept to you.

The ignore button is just easier. Life is too short.

carq · 20-10-2020 10:05am

karlitob wrote: »

I am discussing. You’re not liking what I have to say. In any discussion, your opinion is not a gospel and doesn’t have to be accepted in any shape or form, nor given equal weight to someone else’s.

I’ve put my opinion in the same box as yours and anyone else on here. You wanted to be smart about hard words so I was smart back.

Your opinion is not required or needed

Lol - sure buddy.
ignore you go.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 10:05am

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The ignore button is just easier. Life is too short.

Even shorter for some people who contract Covid.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 10:07am

carq wrote: »

Lol - sure buddy.
ignore you go.

Shame. Sure didn’t you learn all about false and negative positivity rates by interacting with me.

Ignore away but we all can learn from each other.

Humilde · 20-10-2020 10:22am

carq wrote: »

Lol - sure buddy.
ignore you go.

You're better off not engaging with this guy. This whole thing is wrecking our heads enough without a pleb who doesn't know how to behave in a civilised debate.

Zebra3 · 20-10-2020 10:52am

karlitob wrote: »

Even shorter for some people who contract Covid.

And for many of those who miss their cancer screenings.

funnydoggy · 20-10-2020 11:06am

Zebra3 wrote: »

And for many of those who miss their cancer screenings.

And for those who lost their job and fall into severe depression.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 11:14am

Zebra3 wrote: »

And for many of those who miss their cancer screenings.

You miss understand screening. And cancer detection.

Restriction of screening for a few months in a healthy population will not lead to, nor is there any evidence to suggest, large numbers of cancer deaths.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 11:15am

Humilde wrote: »

You're better off not engaging with this guy. This whole thing is wrecking our heads enough without a pleb who doesn't know how to behave in a civilised debate.

Yep - don’t engage in fact or discussion. Not answering my points is not particularly civilised either.

kennethsmyth · 20-10-2020 11:16am

karlitob wrote: »

You miss understand screening. And cancer detection.

Restriction of screening for a few months in a healthy population will not lead to, nor is there any evidence to suggest, large numbers of cancer deaths.

Troll tw@t, just the deaths of some people who definitely could of been saved and in the prime if their life not end.

begbysback · 20-10-2020 11:18am

funnydoggy wrote: »

And for those who lost their job and fall into severe depression.

And for those watching football on tv without fans in the stadium.

McHardcore · 20-10-2020 11:34am

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Interesting

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/nphet-letter-predicts-50-daily-cases-by-christmas-after-six-week-lockdown-1.4385504

R rate in Dublin is 1.
By 31st October, Nphet warned there would be 450-600 people in hospital and 80-110 people in intensive care.

Given that 31 October is already set in stone with existing infections it will be interesting to see what is actually the outcome in terms of numbers.

Although the R number can be skewed by a small number of bad outbreaks, in particular at a county level, that news is positive. Its good news that Dublins came down to 1 while it was under Level 3.

McHardcore · 20-10-2020 11:40am

carq wrote: »

Lol - sure buddy.
ignore you go.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The ignore button is just easier. Life is too short.

I would be wary of using the ignore button. You can end up making an echo chamber for yourselves.

galway_cowboy · 20-10-2020 11:44am

karlitob wrote: »

You miss understand screening. And cancer detection.

Restriction of screening for a few months in a healthy population will not lead to, nor is there any evidence to suggest, large numbers of cancer deaths.

Meanwhile, in our neighbour's house

THE number of people dying at home from illnesses other than Covid-19 has rocketed since lockdown.

Figures from the Office for National Statistics for March to September reveal that almost 1,000 deaths are being recorded every week — up 26,000 on the same period last year.

Among the biggest killers are diabetes (up 86 per cent), Parkinson’s (79 per cent), prostate cancer (53 per cent), breast cancer (47 per cent) and bowel cancer (46 per cent). Deaths among women with dementia have jumped 75 per cent. Prof Karol Sikora, director of cancer care provider Rutherford Health, said it was time to ask ‘difficult questions to avoid even more unnecessary deaths’. The leading oncologist added: ‘Covid-19 kills… but so does lockdown,’

Fiona Carragher, of the Alzheimer’s Society and former deputy chief scientific officer of NHS England, blamed the ‘dreadful side-effects of lockdown’. She added: ‘Isolation, fear and suspension of health and social care services will have contributed to the catastrophic increase in people with dementia dying. We saw it in care homes and now we’re seeing the impact in the community.’

Another 80 coronavirus deaths were recorded yesterday, alongside 18,804 new cases — up from 16,982 on Sunday.

The ONS figures reveal there were 27million fewer GP appointments between March and August than in the same period last year.

https://www.metro.news/350000-referrals-for-cancer-patients-missed-since-march/2190294/

McHardcore · 20-10-2020 11:58am

NIMAN wrote: »

Nphet have all the stats compiled since March. They know about every single case and hospitalised person. Every person in ICU and everyone who died.

Publish these stats.
You know, ffs stop hiding the data and tell us.

Can we put in a FOI request? Why isn't there one decent journo left to ask Dr Tony to tell us what we need to know.

Humilde wrote: »

how many are now in hospital, how many are in ICU? This is the real test to see whats going on.

They have a webpage where this information is published.
They make graphs and tables on the HSE twitter page to make the information easier to view.

https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1316801034350727178

McHardcore · 20-10-2020 12:08pm

md23040 wrote: »

A few doctors posted an open letter to the Irish government prior to lockdown asserting that trying to suppress a virulent virus temporarily is too damaging in its wider implications for the economy and society.
https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/blog/5rsimg088ywiduxo1d5dg31z3g3yl0

Your link appears to be an anonymous blog post. Do you have any better source?
Who are the "Few doctors" that you mention, and assuming that these are medical doctors, why are they commenting on economics?

JimmyVik · 20-10-2020 12:09pm

McHardcore wrote: »

They have a webpage where this information is published.
They make graphs and tables on the HSE twitter page to make the information easier to view.

https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1316801034350727178

Oh.

They are publishing useful stats. Great.
Do you have one where I can check the number of positive cases in schools.
Id also like to know the number of positive cases in children in pimary schools that they think were passed on to anyone else.
And if you have time if you could root out the age profiles of the ones in ICU.
Like the actual ages.

Oh and the amount of children who are being tested in a class room when one child who was in the classroom is found to be positive. The average will do.

Thanks. Fair play to you.

MOH · 20-10-2020 12:14pm

karlitob wrote: »

A give over.

Sure the HSE must run the French, Spanish, British, Portuguese test and trace the way you’re going on. Sure they’re no where near where we are.

You cannot introduce an end to end test and trace system in a month or so. It’s impossible - like it is for any company, any country, anywhere. It’s an excellent job that’s being done.

In the end, it’s only a tool and relies on people following droplet precautions. If people complied, there would be less pressure on the system.

Thanks for the laugh, I needed one this morning. I'm not quite clear if you're trolling at this point, but your desperate need to defend the HSE at all costs is genuinely hilarious.

That's a pretty pathetic attempt at moving the goalposts. I said there was a claim in April that there would be 100,000 tests a week by the end of May. You said that was by the CMO, not the HSE. I provided a link to where the head of the HSE promised 100k tests every week from mid-May; you've completely failed to acknowledge that your previous attempt to attribute that statement to the CMO was a lie, plus you switch to talking about an " an end to end test and trace system". And also attempt to muddy the water by rambling about other countries.

The HSE is doing an excellent job of spectacularly failing to live up to their own promises. Just accept it.

karlitob wrote: »

The guidelines healthcare professionals follow when they are treating patients with droplet precaution infections.

My point is that - I know that government hasn’t recommended Face masks outside by why would anyone put themselves in the position of being a close contract (where the healthcare professionals guidelines would be to wear a mask) without even wearing a mask.

So you think that people walking around outdoors should be constantly taking the same precautions as healthcare professionals do while treating suspected positive cases in enclosed settings. On a regular basis.

That's honestly one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. Aside from the fact that the risk levels in the two scenarios are wildly at odds, you bizarrely seem to want to put those healthcare professionals at risk.
If the genera public were to follow the same guidelines on a constant basis, then we would very quickly run out of the medical-grade PPE those healthcare professionals rely on. Not sure what you have against frontline medical staff that you'd want to put their lives at risk.

MOH · 20-10-2020 12:19pm

McHardcore wrote: »

They have a webpage where this information is published.
They make graphs and tables on the HSE twitter page to make the information easier to view.

https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1316801034350727178

There's also additional reports on clusters and underlying conditions on the HPSC website.

And for international comparisons this seems quite good. The data sources are well documented, and for Ireland anyway they use that ArcGIS data so they seem legit.

McHardcore · 20-10-2020 12:26pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Oh.

They are publishing useful stats. Great.

Thanks. Fair play to you.

Your welcome

karlitob · 20-10-2020 12:36pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Troll tw@t, just the deaths of some people who definitely could of been saved and in the prime if their life not end.

That’s what I expect from the likes of you Kenneth. All this stuff is too complex and you descend into name calling.

Screening is done on a healthy population. Screening (cervical) is not diagnostic.
Screening has been shown to increase survival rates but that’s likely due to knowing about it earlier rather than elongating life.
The improvements in cancer survival rates are due to improvements in procedures and treatments, not screening.
Clinical signs often provide sufficient Time for investigation and treatment with successful outcome.
The cost effectiveness of a screening programme is not well established.

HIQA advises cervical screening to change its screening tool to HPV primary screening and to push out screening appointments from 3-5 years. These last few months will have minimal effect of any on the detection rate of cancers - which of course is different from mortality and survival rates as I’m sure you know.

All of this was clearly explained throughout the cervical check scandal.

Regardless of all this. To suggest that a few months without screening - which is back up but people are not attending because they are afraid of picking up Covid because other people are not washing their hands and following droplet precautions - is going to end with a potential deluge of deaths from cancer - when we’re face with actual deaths from a pandemic is pure scaremongering.

Besides - you can’t have it both ways.

You can want screening to be uninterrupted and then complain about restrictions and say that you’re not adhering to restrictions. This is the point that we’re at. Unless we keep the virus under control - everything else will be affected.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 12:39pm

MOH wrote: »

Thanks for the laugh, I needed one this morning. I'm not quite clear if you're trolling at this point, but your desperate need to defend the HSE at all costs is genuinely hilarious.

That's a pretty pathetic attempt at moving the goalposts. I said there was a claim in April that there would be 100,000 tests a week by the end of May. You said that was by the CMO, not the HSE. I provided a link to where the head of the HSE promised 100k tests every week from mid-May; you've completely failed to acknowledge that your previous attempt to attribute that statement to the CMO was a lie, plus you switch to talking about an " an end to end test and trace system". And also attempt to muddy the water by rambling about other countries.

The HSE is doing an excellent job of spectacularly failing to live up to their own promises. Just accept it.

So you think that people walking around outdoors should be constantly taking the same precautions as healthcare professionals do while treating suspected positive cases in enclosed settings. On a regular basis.

That's honestly one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. Aside from the fact that the risk levels in the two scenarios are wildly at odds, you bizarrely seem to want to put those healthcare professionals at risk.
If the genera public were to follow the same guidelines on a constant basis, then we would very quickly run out of the medical-grade PPE those healthcare professionals rely on. Not sure what you have against frontline medical staff that you'd want to put their lives at risk.

Talk about moving the goalposts.

Off you go and stand within two metres of a person face to face taking for longer than 15 minutes - at all or without a mask.

MOH · 20-10-2020 12:47pm

karlitob wrote: »

Talk about moving the goalposts.

Off you go and stand within two metres of a person face to face taking for longer than 15 minutes - at all or without a mask.

Not sure I follow how I moved the goalposts? You insisted the entire population should follow the same protocols as frontline healthcare professionals and I pointed out an obvious logical flaw with that.

I sat within two metres of another person talking for about 90 minutes at dinner the other night, does that count?
Also ran into someone I knew the day before and stood talking to them for a bit without a mask, think that was only 14.5 minutes though so according to you I should be fine.

I also notice you've failed to address any of the other points about your repeated lying or diverting the topic whenever anyone calls you out on the lies you're telling.

Happydays2020 · 20-10-2020 12:55pm

McHardcore wrote: »

I would be wary of using the ignore button. You can end up making an echo chamber for yourselves.

I have used it once. And no problem being called up on stuff. Just don’t need to be insulted in the process.

karlitob · 20-10-2020 1:12pm

MOH wrote: »

Not sure I follow how I moved the goalposts? You insisted the entire population should follow the same protocols as frontline healthcare professionals and I pointed out an obvious logical flaw with that.

I sat within two metres of another person talking for about 90 minutes at dinner the other night, does that count?
Also ran into someone I knew the day before and stood talking to them for a bit without a mask, think that was only 14.5 minutes though so according to you I should be fine.

I also notice you've failed to address any of the other points about your repeated lying or diverting the topic whenever anyone calls you out on the lies you're telling.

No I didn’t I just said I was surprised. You’re trying to put words in my mouth.

And I hope you are fine. 15 minutes is the international standard definition for Close contact but never mind that.

JimmyVik · 20-10-2020 2:32pm

McHardcore wrote: »

Your welcome

Are you sure you dont work for NPHET.

Youve just done something they seem to be doing.
Showing only parts of the picture to give the picture you wanted to.
Bravo.

McHardcore · 20-10-2020 2:52pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Youve just done something they seem to be doing.
Showing only parts of the picture to give the picture you wanted to.
Bravo.

You are are going to have to clarify yourself.

I was answering Humildes and NIMANs post looking for the number that are in hospital, in ICU and have died. I gave a link to the figures on the HSEs website and twitter feed to help answer their request. If you dont agree with my post, that doesn't mean that I work for NPHET.

McHardcore wrote: »

Humilde wrote: »

how many are now in hospital, how many are in ICU? This is the real test to see whats going on.

They have a webpage where this information is published.

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 8:39am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Are you sure you dont work for NPHET.

Youve just done something they seem to be doing.
Showing only parts of the picture to give the picture you wanted to.
Bravo.

C'mon, if they worked for NPHET they would have used the correct spelling of 'you're,' not 'your.' :pac:

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 8:41am

karlitob wrote: »

That’s what I expect from the likes of you Kenneth. All this stuff is too complex and you descend into name calling.

Screening is done on a healthy population. Screening (cervical) is not diagnostic.
Screening has been shown to increase survival rates but that’s likely due to knowing about it earlier rather than elongating life.
The improvements in cancer survival rates are due to improvements in procedures and treatments, not screening.
Clinical signs often provide sufficient Time for investigation and treatment with successful outcome.
The cost effectiveness of a screening programme is not well established.

I'm not sure that's true. The reason cervical checks are so important is they look for precancerous cells. It's important to catch it at the very earliest stages.

is_that_so · 21-10-2020 8:50am

karlitob wrote: »

Talk about moving the goalposts.

Off you go and stand within two metres of a person face to face taking for longer than 15 minutes - at all or without a mask.

There are other choices here. Inside or out? With or without COVID? Infectious or not?

Bass Reeves · 29-10-2020 10:45am

Dose it look now like NPHET panicked with pushing for a level5 lockdown. We are now seeing the effects of the level3+ lockdown. Would level3+ have carried us back down slowly and to controlled situation. We were in level3+ for only two weeks. During that two weeks NPHET looked for level5 about 2-3 times. This put immense pressure on Government. You had George Lee giving doom and gloom newscasts that panicked the public.

It looks like what we needed with level 3 was enforcement of the house parties rules and we might have trundled along with a fairly open economy compared to present lockdown

29-10-2020 11:17am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Dose it look now like NPHET panicked with pushing fir a level5 lockdown.

Careful now, you'll be condemned as a blasphemer and an unbeliever. Some folks have a mad horn for lockdowns.

Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Comments