FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 4:37pm

This thread is so funny. It is full of the same people who spent the last few years crying and whinging for Fine Gael to go out of government who are now crying and whinging because Fine Gael won't go into government.

Only on boards.

tritium · 12-02-2020 4:41pm

Yurt! wrote: »

And you? What are you at? Doing the lord's work here I suppose

Nah I’m just here watching the human car crash

6 months before you’re complaining about whoever takes the poison chalice next is my guess

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 4:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

This thread is so funny. It is full of the same people who spent the last few years crying and whinging for Fine Gael to go out of government who are now crying and whinging because Fine Gael won't go into government.

Only on boards.

Or... mocking FG for running from government when there's a viable one to be made between them and FF. It's acknowledged in the Irish examiner today they want to retreat into opposition. FG are officially the new party of protest.

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 4:48pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Or... mocking FG for running from government when there's a viable one to be made between them and FF. It's acknowledged in the Irish examiner today they want to retreat into opposition. FG are officially the new party of protest.

The only way that Fine Gael end up in government is if Sinn Fein run away from the challenge. Fine Gael have 35 seats, lost the most seats in the election. That means that there are 125 seats available for Mary-Lou to get a majority of 80 as the most popular party.

If Mary-Lou isn't up to that challenge, or fails miserably as a negotiator, then Fine Gael will have to step up to the plate. Varadkar has been clear in other interviews that those are the only circumstances. If Mary-Lou can't stand the heat, someone else has to do the cooking, but she can't complain from the sidelines any more.

super_furry · 12-02-2020 4:49pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Or... mocking FG for running from government when there's a viable one to be made between them and FF. It's acknowledged in the Irish examiner today they want to retreat into opposition. FG are officially the new party of protest.

They're a party that have spent the last nine years in Government and one which finished third in the election.

I just don't see why you think that the onus is on them to go back into Government. Are you that eager for 14 years of Fine Gael rule?

JohnnyFlash · 12-02-2020 4:50pm

rob316 wrote: »

Because we have the most attractive corporation rate in Europe.

Its that simple, our GDP isn't a true reflection of the economy.

If we ever were forced to bring our CT rate in line with other countries it would make the last recession look like a picnic.

Which is something the next Government may well have to deal with. Now we do have Big Phil over in Brussels so that’s something, but I wouldn’t be too keen on sending the like of Barry Cowan and some SF no-mark over there to argue the position. Thank god we have a brilliant (if slightly pricey) civil service.

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 4:51pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Or... mocking FG for running from government when there's a viable one to be made between them and FF. It's acknowledged in the Irish examiner today they want to retreat into opposition. FG are officially the new party of protest.

CFlat · 12-02-2020 4:52pm

blanch152 wrote: »

This thread is so funny. It is full of the same people who spent the last few years crying and whinging for Fine Gael to go out of government who are now crying and whinging because Fine Gael won't go into government.

Only on boards.

I've heard of sore losers but these lads are sore winners as well:D

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 4:52pm

CFlat wrote: »

I've heard of sore losers but these lads are sore winners as well:D

Brilliant. It'd take SF to be "sore winners"! :pac::pac::pac:

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 4:53pm

super_furry wrote: »

I just don't see why you think that the onus is on them to go back into Government. Are you that eager for 14 years of Fine Gael rule?

Nope, just a decent explanation why they are all chomping at the bit to get into opposition when they could still form a junior role in a new government.

They deserve for their feet to be held to the flames on this question when a common refrain from them is that parties of other orientation run from responsibility.

storker · 12-02-2020 4:54pm

Fieldsman wrote: »

If someone said FG sat on their hands for the last 9 years how come our economy is the envy of every other country in Europe and our unemployment went from 15% down to less than 5

What exactly did FG do or change that caused the recovery?

super_furry · 12-02-2020 4:56pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Nope, just a decent explanation why they are all chomping at the bit to get into opposition when they could still form a junior role in a new government.

They deserve for their feet to be held to the flames on this question when a common refrain from them is that parties of other orientation run from responsibility.

But why are you putting all the onus on the third placed party to form a Government?

Surely the obligation is on the two biggest parties?

wench · 12-02-2020 4:56pm

Keyzer wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

Keyzer wrote: »

I've checked the income tax calculator based on a salary of 100K (way above the numbers you're talking about), see below:

Annual salary (before pension contributions) - €100,000

Tax payable:
€35,300 @ 20% = €7,060 / €64,700 @ 40% = €25,880
PRSI = €4,000
USC = €4,871

Total deductions = €38,511

That's 38.5% tax...

Now, please explain to me how this person is paying 50% tax.

Now run the numbers for 101,000 , how much of the extra 1000 is deducted for tax, usc, prsi?

I make it 520.

So the marginal rate is over 50%

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 4:56pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Nope, just a decent explanation why they are all chomping at the bit to get into opposition when they could still form a junior role in a new government.

They deserve for their feet to be held to the flames on this question when a common refrain from them is that parties of other orientation run from responsibility.

You're like a five-year-old sobbing "Why are Mommy and Daddy yelling??" :pac:

Necro · 12-02-2020 4:56pm

storker wrote:

What exactly did FG do or change to enable this recovery?

Ah yeah, pure chancers the whole lot of em.

Just sat in the Dail and played checkers and the economy put itself back together without their help.

Seriously though....

How about relatively decent financial governance (bar the odd major mishap like NCH)

is_that_so · 12-02-2020 4:56pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Nope, just a decent explanation why they are all chomping at the bit to get into opposition when they could still form a junior role in a new government.

They deserve for their feet to be held to the flames on this question when a common refrain from them is that parties of other orientation run from responsibility.

You also seem to want them as far away as possible from power. Something about that just does not compute at all.

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 4:57pm

Necro wrote: »

...major mishap like NCH...

I cannot wait to see Pearse Doherty deal with BAM! :pac:

Mortelaro · 12-02-2020 4:57pm

storker wrote: »

What exactly did FG do or change that caused the recovery?

Wrong Question
You need to ask what they didn't do to ruin it and that would be try spend what we don't have

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 4:57pm

jimgoose wrote: »

You're like a five-year-old sobbing "Why are Mommy and Daddy yelling??" :pac:

You're losing it Jim. I'm keeping it on topic and you're getting flashbacks to your childhood

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 4:58pm

Yurt! wrote: »

You're losing it Jim. I'm keeping it on topic and you're getting flashbacks to your childhood

You keep ignoring my tutorials on political tactics, young man.

Necro · 12-02-2020 5:01pm

jimgoose wrote:

I cannot wait to see Pearse Doherty deal with BAM!

Or the Metro

Or the unions looking for a new pay deal

*Shudders*

Mortelaro · 12-02-2020 5:01pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Or... mocking FG for running from government when there's a viable one to be made between them and FF. It's acknowledged in the Irish examiner today they want to retreat into opposition. FG are officially the new party of protest.

Tbh
Even the left parties aren't peddling that one...
I'd imagine FG will be the party of protest after parts of the next government discover that what the facilitators were telling them all along and that is,it just isnt possible

um7y1h83ge06nx · 12-02-2020 5:04pm

It's getting comical. One minute SF are ranting about change and getting into government and now they are ranting that FG don't want to be in gov. Hilarious.

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 5:04pm

jimgoose wrote: »

You keep ignoring my tutorials on political tactics, young man.

As I suspected, it's all about party tactics and jockeying.

The maths are there for a government. It's not a government I'd like, but it's there for them.

FG wasted no time during the campaign telling us who they won't go to the dance with in the national interest, it will soon come time to tell us who they would be willing to go with if FF keep steady on their no SF stance.

Their self proclaimed desire for stable governance will come into conflict with their instinct to cut and run because it would be embarrassing to be a junior partner to FF.

I'll revisit this thread if and when that drama plays out, and I'll bring enough popcorn for everybody.

super_furry · 12-02-2020 5:07pm

This whole thing is just weird.

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 5:07pm

Yurt! wrote: »

As I suspected, it's all about party tactics and jockeying...

It's politics, yes, as expounded by professional politicians, you know, all the major parties, possibly even SF. You were expecting maybe brick-laying? Dentistry? Offshore sea-angling?? :pac:

Hint: Erwin Rommel didn't go about his business by running headlong for the first gap he saw.

JohnnyFlash · 12-02-2020 5:08pm

Jeremy Stale Tummy wrote: »

It's getting comical. One minute SF are ranting about change and getting into government and now they are ranting that FG don't want to be in gov. Hilarious.

They didn’t even get 24 hours of happiness with the result! Back to moaning about the blueshirts. It’s glorious to watch to be honest.

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 5:08pm

Yurt! wrote: »

As I suspected, it's all about party tactics and jockeying.

The maths are there for a government. It's not a government I'd like, but it's there for them.

FG wasted no time during the campaign telling us who they won't go to the dance with in the national interest, it will soon come time to tell us who they would be willing to go with if FF keep steady on their no SF stance.

Their self proclaimed desire for stable governance will come into conflict with their instinct to cut and run because it would be embarrassing to be a junior partner to FF.

I'll revisit this thread if and when that drama plays out, and I'll bring enough popcorn for everybody.

So you are admitting in advance that Mary-Lou doesn't have the political nous and the diplomatic and negotiating skills to persuade enough of the other 125 TDs in the Dail to govern with her so that Fine Gael are not needed?

That is some defeatist talk already.

seamus · 12-02-2020 5:11pm

Yurt! wrote: »

As I suspected, it's all about party tactics and jockeying.

The maths are there for a government.

They sure are. FF, SF & the Greens would have a large Dail majority.

So why are SF trying to form a government without FF?

That's right, party tactics and jockeying.

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 5:12pm

blanch152 wrote: »

So you are admitting in advance that Mary-Lou doesn't have the political nous and the diplomatic and negotiating skills to persuade enough of the other 125 TDs in the Dail to govern with her so that Fine Gael are not needed?

That is some defeatist talk already.

The pot of shit is further agitated just now, it seems Brendan Howlin has stepped down.

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 5:13pm

seamus wrote: »

...why are SF trying to form a government without FF?...

Because there's only one group SF hates more than FG, and that's... :pac:

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 5:15pm

jimgoose wrote: »

It's politics, yes, as expounded by professional politicians, you know, all the major parties, possibly even SF. You were expecting maybe brick-laying? Dentistry? Offshore sea-angling?? :pac:

Hint: Erwin Rommel didn't go about his business by running headlong for the first gap he saw.

To paraphrase from a movie where old Erwin features in, I doubt that Leo has read that son of a bitch's book.

If and when the electorate go back to the polls because Leo spurns both SF and FF, some of the posts on this thread will go off quicker than milk left out of the fridge.

It's looking like FF will refuse to do business with Mary Lou. If so, the questions I've posed in the thread will start coming into play and the heat of the media and the public will shift back to FG.

James Brown · 12-02-2020 5:15pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They didn’t even get 24 hours of happiness with the result! Back to moaning about the blueshirts. It’s glorious to watch to be honest.

The opposite. No such thing as a blueshirt being gracious in defeat. We've been dealing with spiteful little nasty digs. I say we, meaning everyone bar FG voters it seems although I do hold out that there are genuine sorts in the FG camp.
FG getting a drubbing has been akin to the Emperor's new clothes, had he never realised he wasn't wearing any.
It's everything and everyone's fault except FG and their ruinous two tier policies.

Ush1 · 12-02-2020 5:15pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Because there's only one group SF hates more than FG, and that's... :pac:

Sinn Fein by name, Sinn Fein by nature...

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 5:18pm

Yurt! wrote: »

...the heat of the media and the public will shift back to FG.

So what you're saying is, when all the faffing about and tantrums are over, everyone could well turn back to FG saying something like "Daaaad!!! Come back, the electricity is cut off and the mortgage needs paying!!" :pac:

is_that_so · 12-02-2020 5:18pm

jimgoose wrote: »

The pot of shit is further agitated just now, it seems Brendan Howlin has stepped down.

They were out on all counts anyway, but he did talk up making arrangements with like-minded parties. Even so they need to figure out what it all means now for Labour.

Keyzer · 12-02-2020 5:19pm

wench wrote: »

Keyzer wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

Now run the numbers for 101,000 , how much of the extra 1000 is deducted for tax, usc, prsi?

I make it 520.

So the marginal rate is over 50%

There are two tax rates in this country - 20% and 40%.

Then there is PRSI and USC.

A salary of €120K has total deductions of €48,911 - so total deductions as a percentage of salary (including USC and PRSI) is....

40.76%

Let me explain how I got that number (which is the right number) - (48911/120000) X 100

Reason I'm continually going on about this is you, along with the other poster on this topic, are wrong but you continue to spread misinformation and nonsense when you clearly don't have a clue how to perform basic calculations.

Which, in itself is bad enough, but other people believe this crap...

Mind boggling...

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 5:19pm

jimgoose wrote: »

So what you're saying is, when all the faffing about and tantrums are over, everyone could well turn back to FG saying something like "Daaaad!!! Come back, the electricity is cut off and the mortgage needs paying!!" :pac:

Not really

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 5:20pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Not really

But a bit like, right?

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 5:22pm

jimgoose wrote: »

But a bit like, right?

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of difficult emotions you're dealing with.

jimgoose · 12-02-2020 5:23pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of difficult emotions you're dealing with

The only one dealing with "difficult emotions" is you, dear fellow, over your beloved Revolutionaries apparently suddenly shitting their collective britches!

solidasarock · 12-02-2020 5:23pm

Even if the election went to plan. I think a lot of people still expected a bumpy road ahead due to a combo of international and domestic factors.

FG doing everything it can to stay out of the next GOV seems like a driver jumping out of a car moments before it drives off a cliff, and then blaming the person left in the car for not turning the wheel quick enough.

Necro · 12-02-2020 5:23pm

Matt Barrett wrote:

The opposite. No such thing as a blueshirt being gracious in defeat. We've been dealing with spiteful little nasty digs. I say we, meaning everyone bar FG voters it seems although I do hold out that there are genuine sorts in the FG camp. FG getting a drubbing has been akin to the Emperor's new clothes, had he never realised he wasn't wearing any. It's everything and everyone's fault except FG and their ruinous two tier policies.

Ah lighten up Matt, ye will be scurrying back to the opposition benches in a few years at the most, enjoy your popularity while it lasts

With great power comes great responsibility

Heavy hangs the crown

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 5:24pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of trauma you're dealing with

Yurt! wrote: »

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of difficult emotions you're dealing with.

Trauma or difficult emotions?

It seems to me that you are becoming a little incoherent at the thought of Fine Gael going into opposition. Getting a little cold and lonely up there on the big boys seat where the decisions have to be made? That is certainly the sense I get around here.

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 5:25pm

solidasarock wrote: »

Even if the election went to plan. I think a lot of people still expected a bumpy road ahead due to a combo of international and domestic factors.

FG doing everything it can to stay out of the next GOV seems like a driver jumping out of a car moments before it drives off a cliff, and then blaming the person left in the car for not turning the wheel quick enough.

If the cliff is far enough away, and the person left in the car doesn't have a clue about driving, then they will probably escape the blame.

storker · 12-02-2020 5:25pm

Necro wrote: »

Ah yeah, pure chancers the whole lot of em.

Just sat in the Dail and played checkers and the economy put itself back together without their help.

Seriously though....

How about relatively decent financial governance (bar the odd major mishap like NCH)

Such as...?

bunderoon · 12-02-2020 5:27pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If the cliff is far enough away, and the person left in the car doesn't have a clue about driving, then they will probably escape the blame.

SF dont have much of a chance in this anyway. FG, FF and the RTE will do everything possible to get in their way. The only ones that suffer is 'we the people'.

Necro · 12-02-2020 5:27pm

storker wrote:

Such as...?

A surplus in the budget for the first time in over a decade maybe?

I dunno, seems pretty fine to me.

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 5:28pm

bunderoon wrote: »

SF dont have much of a chance in this anyway. FG, FF and the RTE will do everything possible to get in their way. The only ones that suffer is 'we the people'.

The biggest issue is that they never expected it and they are under-prepared and over-promised in an election they didn't expect to win.

storker · 12-02-2020 5:29pm

Mortelaro wrote: »

Wrong Question
You need to ask what they didn't do to ruin it and that would be try spend what we don't have

So it was the sitting oin the hands wot did it? I suppose it makes a change from complaining that FF weren't spending fast enough...

FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

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