Asti strike action

beauf · 20-09-2020 3:40pm

Polka_Dot wrote: »

Even if the situations were comparable, and if children did not pass it to each other (there is ever growing evidence that this is not the case), we are now looking at a situation where children and adults are mixing. Schools are doing their best to keep teachers and students at a distance, but what if a teacher were to cause an outbreak in a school?

Then they'll have to rethink it.

beauf · 20-09-2020 3:42pm

terenc wrote: »

Lets face it a lot of Irish parents believe that is exactly what you are "babysitters"

I think that diminishes the role school plays not simply in education but how it effects the wider economy.

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 3:48pm

beauf wrote: »

Then they'll have to rethink it.

Rethink what? What do you suggest we do instead?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 20-09-2020 3:54pm

beauf wrote: »

Lots of clubs have hundred of members. we have about 80 in the same age group. Multiple that across age groups, then siblings and coaches going between age groups. You do training or matches, you have them all in close physical contact. Breathing hard touching the same ball and each other.

If there are schools insisting not taking any preoccupations, doing a load of stupid things that you mention, and going on as normal, that really their own fault, no one else's.

Most sports don't require everyone to be in close contact bar who you might be marking and a handful of others. Certainly not 80 in close contact.

I'd blame the guidelines allowing scope for some clown managers to interpret them as the see fit.

beauf · 20-09-2020 3:55pm

Polka_Dot wrote: »

Rethink what? What do you suggest we do instead?

Well we could go back to lock down and distance learning.

Only this time, identify the teachers and schools who have negligible contact with their pupils and penalize them.

beauf · 20-09-2020 3:59pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Most sports don't require everyone to be in close contact bar who you might be marking and a handful of others. Certainly not 80 in close contact.

I'd blame the guidelines allowing scope for some clown managers to interpret them as the see fit.

I'm not entirely sure if you are serious.

They train in close contact. They have tackle all over the pitch and if you see younger kids play its like a scrum, in a big huddle. That that repeats in every group. Its also airborne and you are running through each others air.

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 4:02pm

beauf wrote: »

Well we could go back to lock down and distance learning.

Only this time, identify the teachers and schools who have negligible contact with their pupils and penalize them.

Now you're getting it - there needs to be something in place for these situations and at present there isn't. It's just not good enough to say that kids have been mixing since March so it's all fine. This is a totally different situation, where we have received very little clarity and where things continue to be muddied. Regarding your second point, I really don't think you can penalise schools who are trying their best but where the guidelines are nearly impossible to implement.

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:05pm

Get Real wrote: »

Prison officers that have been on top of inmates without equipment/proper ppe.

Gardai arresting a shoplifter or drug dealer or being spat at, with a lack of ppe or sitting with a mental health person for hours. General body searching and bodily fluids.

A clerical officer sitting in a courtroom for 7 or 8 hours calling 80plus people.

A Dublin bus driver.

Hospital staff/fire brigade (although in fairness these were prioritised with ppe)

There are going to be scenarios that the covid recommendations don't fit all boxes. You're not going to have it 100% great. In the classroom it's insofar as practicable. Which isn't ideal.

I agree there are issues for teachers, but disagree there's no comparison. There's plenty of comparison with other sectors that have been dealing with this on an ad hoc basis since early March.

Even in IT lots of companies took in hundred of old dirty laptops, and reconditioned and repurposed them back out to staff WFH. Any PC or laptop sucked in air and dusk, then blows it out again. Imagine the IT gear in a hospital. Same thing in cars.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 4:07pm

beauf wrote: »

Even in IT lots of companies took in hundred of old dirty laptops, and reconditioned and repurposed them back out to staff WFH. Any PC or laptop sucked in air and dusk, then blows it out again. Imagine the IT gear in a hospital. Same thing in cars.

From HSE website:

Coronavirus can survive for:

up to 72 hours on plastic and stainless steel
less than 4 hours on copper
less than 24 hours on cardboard

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:09pm

Polka_Dot wrote: »

Now you're getting it - there needs to be something in place for these situations and at present there isn't. It's just not good enough to say that kids have been mixing since March so it's all fine. This is a totally different situation, where we have received very little clarity and where things continue to be muddied. Regarding your second point, I really don't think you can penalise schools who are trying their best but where the guidelines are nearly impossible to implement.

That's just a strawman. No one said it was fine. People are identifying problems as they are found then dealing with them.

<snip trolling dig at teachers>

if 3 weeks are not long enough to have stats to work, off. What is a potential strike based on?

rainbowtrout · 20-09-2020 4:13pm

beauf wrote: »

Our schools have taken a load of precautions. They've worked their asses off. They aren't giving up a the first hurdle, they are giving it a go, if it becomes a problem they are adjusting and changing to suit. If there's a close contact getting tested, that class stops until they get the all clear then resume.

That's not what's happening on the ground if you go back and read the thread. My school had a case, HSE told us the student had no close contacts in the school so no further testing needed. Other schools get shut down/have whole classes sent home. There are huge inconsistencies, and seemingly it doesn't seem to matter if the student had close contacts outside the school that attend the same school as them, once they weren't within 2 metres of them for 15 minutes during the school day.

This was not a decision taken by the school, this was a decision from the HSE.

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:16pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's not what's happening on the ground if you go back and read the thread. My school had a case, HSE told us the student had no close contacts in the school so no further testing needed. Other schools get shut down/have whole classes sent home. There are huge inconsistencies, and seemingly it doesn't seem to matter if the student had close contacts outside the school that attend the same school as them, once they weren't within 2 metres of them for 15 minutes during the school day.

This was not a decision taken by the school, this was a decision from the HSE.

..and did you have a lot, a few or any other cases in the same class the student.

rainbowtrout · 20-09-2020 4:17pm

beauf wrote: »

..and did you have a lot, a few or any other cases in the same class the student.

It was this week, so we'll have to wait and see. As I said, we were told no further testing so we have no idea.

20-09-2020 4:23pm

Just what the country needs, a teachers strike which causes students to miss more school time and forces parents to take time off work. Grandparents won’t be there to help out this time.

Tone deaf guys. I cannot see public sympathy coming down on your side.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 4:27pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Just what the country needs, a teachers strike which causes students to miss more school time and forces parents to take time off work. Grandparents won’t be there to help out this time.

Tone deaf guys. I cannot see public sympathy coming down on your side.

Why should teachers put themselves in danger in unsafe working conditions that breach every recommended NPHET guideline?

If it was a case of my health, or some parents having to look after their own children, then I know what I'd do.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 20-09-2020 4:27pm

beauf wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure if you are serious.

They train in close contact. They have tackle all over the pitch and if you see younger kids play its like a scrum, in a big huddle. That that repeats in every group. Its also airborne and you are running through each others air.

18-times less likely to catch it outdoors. Presume this training is outdoors.

Ye hardly drop a ball in the middle of them all and let them chase after the ball. Plenty drills and games can be done with a few footballs to separate a large session.

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:27pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It was this week, so we'll have to wait and see. As I said, we were told no further testing so we have no idea.

Do you not know of any one who has had it, or been tested for it? Outside of schools. I know a good few.

lawrencesummers · 20-09-2020 4:28pm

In terms of funding, information, precautions, protection, testing, planning and support schools are the next nursing homes.

That’s the message that needs to be gotten across.

Unfortunately it took excessive deaths for the authorities to wake up to the nursing home’s problem, I fear schools will be the same.

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:29pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

18 less likely to catch it outdoors. Presume this training is outdoors.

Ye hardly drop a ball in the middle of them all and let them chase after the ball. Plenty drills and games can be done with a few footballs to separate a large session.

There are certain ways to think outside the box.

You don't need to have people in changing rooms in schools either, you can do PE outside.

https://extra.ie/2020/09/20/news/irish-news/school-outside-lessons-dublin

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:32pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

In terms of funding, information, precautions, protection, testing, planning and support schools are the next nursing homes.

That’s the message that needs to be gotten across.

Unfortunately it took excessive deaths for the authorities to wake up to the nursing home’s problem, I fear schools will be the same.

There is a slight difference in demographics between schools and nursing homes. In generally healthy younger people vs old often sick people.

20-09-2020 4:34pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Why should teachers put themselves in danger in unsafe working conditions that breach every recommended NPHET guideline?

If it was a case of my health, or some parents having to look after their own children, then I know what I'd do.

Every worker who has gone back to work has done so with some risk to their health, but they get on with it.

If parents have to stay at home without pay, there will be no sympathy for you. You think parents of fifth and sixth years will support a strike that means their kids miss more school?

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:38pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Why should teachers put themselves in danger in unsafe working conditions that breach every recommended NPHET guideline?

If it was a case of my health, or some parents having to look after their own children, then I know what I'd do.

Lots of people have had to make that choice months ago.

But its certainly a good time to test if online computer based training works, in conjunction with Parent working from home. Of course the parent will have better oversight on whats been taught also. Better metrics etc.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 20-09-2020 4:43pm

beauf wrote: »

There are certain ways to think outside the box.

You don't need to have people in changing rooms in schools either, you can do PE outside.

https://extra.ie/2020/09/20/news/irish-news/school-outside-lessons-dublin

Absolutely but I'm not a principal.

The point being, these things aren't being done and some teachers are p1ssed off over it

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 4:44pm

beauf wrote: »

Lots of people have had to make that choice months ago.

But its certainly a good time to test if online computer based training works, in conjunction with Parent working from home. Of course the parent will have better oversight on whats been taught also. Better metrics etc.

I don't think anyone had to make that choice in the same regard.

HCP in fairness are trained and are more familiar with PPE, and dealing infections (in spite of MRSA) That said, hospitals were emptied at the start of COVID. People were avoiding hospitals so much, the government had to release a statement actually telling people to go to hospital if they needed to.

Everywhere else is limiting number, queue systems, sanitiser, tables in restaurants spaced out, getting people in and out ASAP. Nursing homes are still locked down. Pubs are still closed until this week (again limited numbers) and not opening in Dublin at all.
Many people are still working from home and will likely be until next year.

amacca · 20-09-2020 4:45pm

beauf wrote: »

Have that done that since March? Kids and teens have been hanging around each other all summer. Has it caused a spread. If not why not. We've really only seen an increase since adults increased contact with each. I'm not saying it hasn't happened with younger kids. But its not reflected in the stats. (that we are are aware of).

No I don't think they have been doing that since March tbh

I don't believe they have been indoors with up to 30 other teenagers in a room for six hours a day in a building with over a thousand other students sharing the general space around them etc etc

Again I hope you are right but I think they have respiratory tracts like everyone else which makes them just as much of a risk and they are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers and not adhere to hygiene/social distancing as well as some adults (hopefully a majority of adults although looking around me I'm not sure that the adults are any better)...so that makes them more of a risk in my eyes

I suppose time will tell....but the waters/stats might be muddied by the way information etc is being ...whats the right word to indicate not being freely shared + not gathering the information in the first place so it won't be recorded (again it might not be feasible money wise to test willy nilly so i'm not necessarily criticising that but keeping teachers/classmates and parents in the dark surely deserves a bit of debate on the pros and cons/motivation)

we will see if the problem gets bad enough I suppose enough people will question where its coming from...I kind of think schools are another very significant link in the chain they've connected up in full

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 4:48pm

beauf wrote: »

Some schools are using school halls and other workaround as overflow halls.

I don't understand this comment.
I suppose I can safely assume that everyone here has spent at least a decade in school, and the last 6 months observing social distancing.

Can anyone confidently say the schools they were in could accommodate social distancing for all their student, with the same number of teachers?

You'd have to triple the classroom size of my primary and secondary.

Also the "some schools" comment is nonsense. There must be some cohension or strategy that ALL schools need to meet. What's the point of doing things by halves? Should we accept that certain schools are exempt from social distancing?

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:49pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I don't think anyone had to make that choice in the same regard.

HCP in fairness are trained and are more familiar with PPE, and dealing infections (in spite of MRSA) That said, hospitals were emptied at the start of COVID. People were avoiding hospitals so much, the government had to release a statement actually telling people to go to hospital if they needed to.

Everywhere else is limiting number, queue systems, sanitiser, tables in restaurants spaced out, getting people in and out ASAP. Nursing homes are still locked down. Pubs are still closed until this week (again limited numbers) and not opening in Dublin at all.
Many people are still working from home and will likely be until next year.

Schools also emptied.

Nursing homes are locked down for a good reason. We hardly need to repeat why...again...

Many people not working from home, never have.

All these places have reopened in limited ways. In Dublin its obviously gone backwards.

So what increase in schools is causing them to stop after 3 weeks.

20-09-2020 4:52pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I don't think anyone had to make that choice in the same regard.

There in will be your handicap. Not understanding or accepting that virtually everyone has had to make that choice, but out of necessity it wasn’t really a choice at all. We have to get on with it. That is why you will struggle to get public support from anyone who has gone back to work.

Out of interest, if you do refuse to work due to Covid, do you continue to be paid or will you have to go on PUP? If parents have to stop working/get paid due to strike action, while you get paid, the public will justifiably be livid.

beauf · 20-09-2020 4:53pm

amacca wrote: »

No I don't think they have been doing that since March tbh

I don't believe they have been indoors with up to 30 other teenagers in a room for six hours a day in a building with over a thousand other students sharing the general space around them etc etc

Again I hope you are right but I think they have respiratory tracts like everyone else which makes them just as much of a risk and they are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers and not adhere to hygiene/social distancing as well as some adults (hopefully a majority of adults although looking around me I'm not sure that the adults are any better)...so that makes them more of a risk in my eyes

I suppose time will tell....but the waters/stats might be muddied by the way information etc is being ...whats the right word to indicate not being freely shared + not gathering the information in the first place so it won't be recorded (again it might not be feasible money wise to test willy nilly so i'm not necessarily criticising that but keeping teachers/classmates and parents in the dark surely deserves a bit of debate on the pros and cons/motivation)

we will see if the problem gets bad enough I suppose enough people will question where its coming from...I kind of think schools are another very significant link in the chain they've connected up in full

Well its a test isn't it. It either works or it doesn't. Unless you try how will we know.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 4:58pm

beauf wrote: »

Schools also emptied.

Nursing homes are locked down for a good reason. We hardly need to repeat why...again...

Many people not working from home, never have.

All these places have reopened in limited ways. In Dublin its obviously gone backwards.

So what increase in schools is causing them to stop after 3 weeks.

I covered your points.
Many schools cannot reopen in limited ways. Is that an acceptable risk?

Regarding increase, I would imagine it's the same increase causing Dublin to re-enter a limited lockdown.
Teachers (and everyone) are entitled to work in a safe environment. NPHET and the HSE defined what that was. Many schools cannot meet that definition and their calls for clarification have been ignored.

Advice was given to schools (you can see it on the gov.ie website) but the jist of the advice is "do the best you can".

Treppen · 20-09-2020 4:59pm

beauf wrote: »

What % it kids in the age range you are teaching get covid? Those that get it what % get it in school.

How many teachers have got it in school.

They don't seem to give out those statistics. But if they did you think it would ease people's concerns. Or at least make them have an informed opinion.

If a kid gets in and no one in their class has it then it suggests they didn't get it in school. Etc. Thus far when someone in a class gets it, it a school it doesn't seem to spread any further. As they let the classes and school go back to work. Like wise in kids sports GAA etc.

It's hard to make an informed opinion without information, or give an informed comment. I hope the unions are well informed enough about this to act on it appropriately.

That sounds a bit like the Luke O Neil position which was jumped on by Micheal Martin at the end of August.
i. e. 'So far kids only contract the virus at home so schools should be safe'
.
.
.
Completely ignoring the fact that there's no evidence because kids hadn't been to school since March 13th!

beauf · 20-09-2020 5:03pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I don't understand this comment.
I suppose I can safely assume that everyone here has spent at least a decade in school, and the last 6 months observing social distancing.

See this is where you have a problem. Most people have indeed spent at least decade and longer in school, then college etc. They will have experience of it as parents. Many will have dealt with far more complex environments than a school. That's not to dismiss it. Its a tough environment.

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Can anyone confidently say the schools they were in could accommodate social distancing for all their student, with the same number of teachers?

You'd have to triple the classroom size of my primary and secondary.

There are workarounds. you have to think outside of the box.

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Also the "some schools" comment is nonsense. There must be some cohension or strategy that ALL schools need to meet. What's the point of doing things by halves? Should we accept that certain schools are exempt from social distancing?

Schools are social distancing. if you are in a school that has done nothing then thats a local issue.

But I don't get the defeatist attitude out of the gate.

Treppen · 20-09-2020 5:04pm

Interesting!
Haven't heard any mention of the ballot in the news all day. Maybe I missed it.

Did Brendan O Connor or 1pm show mention it today?

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 5:05pm

beauf wrote: »

Well its a test isn't it. It either works or it doesn't. Unless you try how will we know.

Why should it be treated as a test at all? I appreciate that there is no simple or overall solution, but there was plenty of time between the 13th of March and when schools reopened to consider how we could reopen safely. The reality was a set of vague guidelines 3 weeks before we opened, which at first did not even recommend face coverings until that was challenged by the unions. Of course we will have to see how things work, but the way you put it sounds like you are okay with thousands of lives being gambled as a "test."

amacca · 20-09-2020 5:05pm

beauf wrote: »

Well its a test isn't it. It either works or it doesn't. Unless you try how will we know.

I'm not sure I understand you?......it is being tried, this is playing out right now, time will tell if they are significant when it comes to the spread of the disease

The experiment is playing out right now.......typing unless you try when the thing is already happening seems a bit moot...they have been trying, they are open

unless you think you are making some sort of moral point here:)

beauf · 20-09-2020 5:09pm

amacca wrote: »

No I don't think they have been doing that since March tbh

I don't believe they have been indoors with up to 30 other teenagers in a room for six hours a day in a building with over a thousand other students sharing the general space around them etc etc

Again I hope you are right but I think they have respiratory tracts like everyone else which makes them just as much of a risk and they are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers and not adhere to hygiene/social distancing as well as some adults (hopefully a majority of adults although looking around me I'm not sure that the adults are any better)...so that makes them more of a risk in my eyes

I suppose time will tell....but the waters/stats might be muddied by the way information etc is being ...whats the right word to indicate not being freely shared + not gathering the information in the first place so it won't be recorded (again it might not be feasible money wise to test willy nilly so i'm not necessarily criticising that but keeping teachers/classmates and parents in the dark surely deserves a bit of debate on the pros and cons/motivation)

we will see if the problem gets bad enough I suppose enough people will question where its coming from...I kind of think schools are another very significant link in the chain they've connected up in full

Well you could decide never to have 30 kids in a room ever again, unless you test first comprehensively that it won't be a problem. But you can't test it as you won't allow them in the room in the first place. Nice catch 22.

Maybe it will be a problem. How do you plan on finding out?

beauf · 20-09-2020 5:10pm

Treppen wrote: »

That sounds a bit like the Luke O Neil position which was jumped on by Micheal Martin at the end of August.
i. e. 'So far kids only contract the virus at home so schools should be safe'
.
.
.
Completely ignoring the fact that there's no evidence because kids hadn't been to school since March 13th!

Another strawman. Kids have been in contact with other. There is evidence.

You are just choosing to ignore it unless it exactly the same.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 5:10pm

beauf wrote: »

Many will have dealt with far more complex environments than a school. That's not to dismiss it. Its a tough environment.

There are workarounds. you have to think outside of the box.

Schools are social distancing. if you are in a school that has done nothing then thats a local issue.

But I don't get the defeatist attitude out of the gate.

I don't understand? Complex environments? I would have though an environment which has historically suffered for aging facilities and overcrowding and is now back at 100% occupancy AND being asked to social distance would be very complex.

"Workarounds" sounds very much like Boris Johnson's "technological border solutions". If there are workarounds, they should applied fairly and uniformly. As I said above, the only workaround right now is do the best you can.

Many schools are not capable of social distancing and following government guidelines, that's why this thread exists.

beauf · 20-09-2020 5:13pm

amacca wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand you?......it is being tried, this is playing out right now, time will tell if they are significant when it comes to the spread of the disease

The experiment is playing out right now.......typing unless you try when the thing is already happening seems a bit moot...they have been trying, they are open

unless you think you are making some sort of moral point here:)

The thread is about the strike. If you shut down the schools now. What will you have tried.

spurious · 20-09-2020 5:14pm

Christ.

Closing this again to deal with rubbish.

**edit
Open again, but enough with the childish sniping and digs.
The issue is how Covid-19 is being addressed (or not) in schools, teacher and pupil safety and whether or not to strike or take other action.

beauf · 20-09-2020 5:46pm

Is there an official list published some where of what the specific issues that that are on the ballot. Or is that a members only list.

amacca · 20-09-2020 5:54pm

beauf wrote: »

The thread is about the strike. If you shut down the schools now. What will you have tried.

Who is shutting them down now?

Its a ballot, if ...if they are shut down its not happening tomorrow...there will be another couple of weeks to run before a shutdown ..that and the two to three weeks beforehand that have already been tried....like I said time will tell.

.thats more time for that data to build up....if its being fully and accurately recorded I suppose

You seem to think im advocating for an immediate shutdown as if that could even happen.

You seem pretty riled up for person just debating an issue if you dont mind me saying ..and you seem to be under the illusion that teachers are responsible for making the rules regarding when they return and the manner of that return .

beauf · 20-09-2020 6:27pm

I'm simply asking what statistics is this ballot on...

Not sure how simply asking a questions, or exploring the issues in discussion is being riled up. Even if I was, it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Are we not allowed ask questions in a thread about education....

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 20-09-2020 7:03pm

beauf wrote: »

I'm simply asking what statistics is this ballot on...

Not sure how simply asking a questions, or exploring the issues in discussion is being riled up. Even if I was, it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Are we not allowed ask questions in a thread about education....

Stats as in school cases?

Most only open 2 wks so there won't be much.

Prob not a good idea to wait for the horse to bolt (if it does, might not) and then vote.

I think a lot of schools think things could be organised much better. Voting on that doesn't require statistics?

Bobtheman · 20-09-2020 7:08pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Just what the country needs, a teachers strike which causes students to miss more school time and forces parents to take time off work. Grandparents won’t be there to help out this time.

Tone deaf guys. I cannot see public sympathy coming down on your side.

Sorry but I don't give a flying ****. Its about health and lives. You don't win a dispute by getting the public on side. You get it by pissing them off. Unfortunately a lot of teachers raised on the bull**** propagated by the independent believe they are lucky to have any old job at all. Remember joe public thought we'd have a soft landing and Eamon gilmore would save them from all cutbacks.So forgive me if I don't give a **** what you or joe public thinks !

Bubbaclaus · 20-09-2020 7:17pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Sorry but I don't give a flying ****. Its about health and lives. You don't win a dispute by getting the public on side. You get it by pissing them off. Unfortunately a lot of teachers raised on the bull**** propagated by the independent believe they are lucky to have any old job at all. Remember joe public thought we'd have a soft landing and Eamon gilmore would save them from all cutbacks.So forgive me if I don't give a **** what you or joe public thinks !

And the above is why the general public's opinion of public sector unions has soured greatly in the last few decades.

Bobtheman · 20-09-2020 7:23pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

And the above is why the general public's opinion of public sector unions has soured greatly in the last few decades.

<snip abuse>
Union membership has declined across all sectors last 20 years - result gig culture and zero hour contracts. I have seen the working man generally screwed . But you keep buying the independent and wondering why this nation is so ****ed up in terms of housing etc
A union is to be feared. You don't want to be loved.
Look what that did to LPTs
Now I block you. <snip abuse>

spurious · 20-09-2020 7:38pm

Two day break from the forum for Bobtheman. No need for personal abuse.

Bubbaclaus · 20-09-2020 8:01pm

Any word from the primary school unions?

The Belly · 20-09-2020 8:05pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Any word from the primary school unions?

not yet but unions across the board are starting up

Asti strike action

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