So we have become xenophobics now

Cordell · 01-11-2019 12:57pm

I wish people would have the decency to stand up and say "I don't want him here because he is not Irish"

Well, they can't do that anymore.

TheSegal · 01-11-2019 12:59pm

Achill Island, in particular the Achill head, is one of the most depressing places in existence during the Winter months with very few services. Could the 13 asylum seekers not be placed closer to Galway/Westport?

Mules · 01-11-2019 1:02pm

Antares35 wrote: »

What himself? He will be busy so :pac:

Perhaps I am a cynic but I can't help but think all this weeping and nashing of teeth over "our own" is just a smokescreen to blot out the NIMBYism that is rife in Ireland, in back árse villages especially. Nobody really cares about mentally ill patients sleeping on floors until their plight can be used to refuse immigrants. And I am on the fence about the whole thing in terms of whether it should or should not be happening, but I wish people would have the decency to stand up and say "I don't want him here because he is not Irish" or whatever instead of bandying about some faux concern about social issues affecting Irish people that in truth they could not care less about.

You mightn't care about psychiatric patients sleeping on hospital floors but I guarantee you that I do. Some people truly don't give a sh*t about social issues affecting Irish people but I'm not so removed from those conditions that I don't. "For the grace of God here go I" is true for more of us than you might think.

Antares35 · 01-11-2019 1:03pm

Mules wrote: »

You mightn't care about psychiatric patients sleeping on hospital floors but I guarantee you that I do. Some people truly don't give a sh*t about social issues affecting Irish people but I'm not so removed from those conditions that I don't.

I think you missed my point.

Ready4Boarding · 01-11-2019 1:06pm

timmyntc wrote: »

It's not xenophobia to be opposed to badly thought out plans - dumping asylum seekers in a remote area like Achill Island with feck all services, public transport or employment prospects hardly makes sense does it?

Put asylum seekers in high density buildings in or near cities - at least there there are some amenities for them.

These people have discovered that any large development can be mischaracterised as badly planned, and are using it to deflect the charge of xenophobia.

Mules · 01-11-2019 1:08pm

Cordell wrote: »

On this particular topic the system is the problem, not the population increase. Stopping the population increase will just hide the problems that needs to be fixed. Per capita healthcare spending in Ireland is higher than other countries that have stellar public healthcare systems.

I agree there is structural problems with the health system. Having said that I had a look at stats in health expenditure when adjusted to amount per capita and we do spend less than Greece, Chile and various eastern European countries. At any rate population growth is exacerbating the problems in both health and housing. It's a massive factor in shortages in all public services. It's not the only factor but it's a problem.

Mules · 01-11-2019 1:09pm

Antares35 wrote: »

I think you missed my point.

I appear to have, can you clarify?

Graces7 · 01-11-2019 1:14pm

You need to go back on the Mayo News website and read the whole saga. OK? OK ! Then come back with a balanced opinion.

As the local councillor has said over and over again; Achill welcomes immigrants but in families, in houses where they can be integrated fully into the community. Not dumped in numbers out of proportion to the local scene with no preparation or facilities for them

The Dpt admitted they had not even visited the place. They had not as they were duty and law bound to do even told HSE and informed the tiny local GP surgery that 30 men were arriving which was the original plan

it is the Dept who are zenophobic, treating immigrants like that.

2lazytogetup wrote: »

One of the things i was proud of in ireland was there was no far right groups.

But looks like we are are xenophobic as the rest of them:

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/1031/1087856-achill-asylum-seekers/

Those protestors should hang their heads in shame.

im a bit disappointed the department of justice is bowing to pressure.

Bobblehats · 01-11-2019 1:16pm

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

These people have discovered that any large development can be mischaracterised as badly planned, and are using it to deflect the charge of xenophobia.

Yeah well I hope we develop some sense.

topper75 · 01-11-2019 1:17pm

blueshade wrote: »

Genuine refugees have always been welcome, until it's safe to go home. Bogus economic migrants should be booted out on the first flight home.

What screwed all this up was permitting asylum 'shopping'; it became the norm for somebody to turn up at an Irish port or airport claiming to seeking refuge but having passed through many other places en route.

Historically we did our bit with Hungarians, Vietnamese, NI etc. Ireland's track record on this and its financial contributions to the developing world show us to be a people not all short on compassion.

If a reasonable share of unfortunates is brought to Ireland from some Godforsaken UN camp, that is legit. But rocking up as an asylum shopper makes it a joke, one that the Irish don't care for when their exchequer is run on tick. Genuine compassionate desire to improve the lot of our fellow travellers in this world and not being taken for a mug are not mutually exclusive.

Wibbs · 01-11-2019 1:17pm

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

These people have discovered that any large development can be mischaracterised as badly planned, and are using it to deflect the charge of xenophobia.

Personally I couldn't give two hoots if someone charges me with xenophobia, work away. Not if it means we don't go down the same idiotic route of every other example of the "multicultural" experiment in other European countries. We have enough social ills as it stands, we don't need to be importing more, just because politicians crow on about "diversity", when it will almost never impact them personally. Sod that. Sadly, I think it's too little too late and roll on a few years and we'll have the same social problems as others in Europe have. But it's not like we couldn't have seen this coming... :rolleyes:

JohnnyFlash · 01-11-2019 1:19pm

Extremely disappointing decision for the hotel owner.

beejee · 01-11-2019 1:23pm

Why try to put all these places in the most remote, isolated, structurally lacking areas in the country with tiny populations?

It's a good, positive thing, right?

Right?

Or is it a bad, negative thing, hence the people in charge want it as far, far away from themselves as possible?

What message does that send to these areas? "it's good enough for ye, but not for me"

The hypocrisy is laughable!

Wibbs · 01-11-2019 1:26pm

topper75 wrote: »

Historically we did our bit with Hungarians, Vietnamese, NI etc.

Actually we didn't T. We were guilted into those examples(save for the NI bit) and the Hungarians left pretty quickly because of a certain lack of cead mile failtes and we only took them in on the proviso that the able bodied ones were moved onto Canada as quickly as possible. Oh and we only agreed to take in/transit 500 of them. The Vietnamese number was even smaller, 200 and that was only after repeated entreaties by the UN. Tiny numbers compared to today. Though we were dirt poor then, so not so many wanted to come here and those that did were doing so for far fewer economic reasons. Contrast that with what went on during the "Celtic tiger" with mostly sub Saharan Africans having their waters break on the pier of Rosslare. We've already let too many in and mark me we'll see the wonderful results of that in the future.

Ireland's track record on this and its financial contributions to the developing world show us to be a people not all short on compassion.

Our track record on work in the third world through the missions and charitable work is pretty impressive given our size, but while we were only too happy to do such things "on the ground", we weren't too happy to bring them here.

If a reasonable share of unfortunates is brought to Ireland from some Godforsaken UN camp, that is legit. But rocking up as an asylum shopper makes it a joke, one that the Irish don't care for when their exchequer is run on tick. Genuine compassionate desire to improve the lot of our fellow travellers in this world and not being taken for a mug are not mutually exclusive.

+1.

timmyntc · 01-11-2019 1:29pm

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

These people have discovered that any large development can be mischaracterised as badly planned, and are using it to deflect the charge of xenophobia.

:rolleyes:

I genuinely can't tell if you're taking the piss or not :pac:

Anyways:
The whole issue of direct provision has recently become a nice little scam to extract money from the government. The RHI of the Republic so to speak.
All you have to do is buy/acquire a hotel (mostly rural/not in use since these are the cheapest) - then apply to department to have it used as a DP center. The department will approve them without any consideration for how suitable it actually is - so long as you can fit X amount of people inside the hotel it will be approved.

It's a failure of a scheme and clearly the whole process is not fit for purpose.

auspicious · 01-11-2019 1:46pm

It's fear of the unknown and the strong possibility of a lack of integration. There is an arrogance of even the left to assume the societal pull is always in the direction of westernisation.

cj maxx · 01-11-2019 1:50pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Personally I couldn't give two hoots if someone charges me with xenophobia, work away. Not if it means we don't go down the same idiotic route of every other example of the "multicultural" experiment in other European countries. We have enough social ills as it stands, we don't need to be importing more, just because politicians crow on about "diversity", when it will almost never impact them personally. Sod that. Sadly, I think it's too little too late and roll on a few years and we'll have the same social problems as others in Europe have. But it's not like we couldn't have seen this coming... :rolleyes:

Our masters in Europe say we need to become multi cultural like they are. Mind you they ie. Britain,France, Germany, Belgium , the Netherlands and others all had vast empires that they ravaged before seeing the light. Race riots are nothing new to them so we should just get used to it. After all we had plenty of riots in the north so it's not much different to bring thousands of un- integrated people into our small country.
It's not xenophobic to say that we don't want to make the same mistakes as they did , nor is it xenophobic to say accept asylum seekers but at least put a plan for them into action. But this bollix of accepting our quota without the means or political savvy to do it right will cause problems in the coming years. Anyone saying otherwise is imo , in total denial

blueshade · 01-11-2019 1:52pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Personally I couldn't give two hoots if someone charges me with xenophobia, work away. Not if it means we don't go down the same idiotic route of every other example of the "multicultural" experiment in other European countries. We have enough social ills as it stands, we don't need to be importing more, just because politicians crow on about "diversity", when it will almost never impact them personally. Sod that. Sadly, I think it's too little too late and roll on a few years and we'll have the same social problems as others in Europe have. But it's not like we couldn't have seen this coming... :rolleyes:

I am genuinely sick to the back teeth of the word ''diversity'' being shoe horned in to whatever story the media/government is talking about. It's become really really obvious that there are major cultural issues arising in Ireland and that there are far more minorities here than we're led to believe. Where I live we have had people from all over the world, many different cultures and religions and everyone just gets along because people have worked together, their kids have gone to school together and there has been no discrimination.

Fast forward to the last few years when we've had Syrians and Africans. The Syrians DON'T integrate. They stick to their own, they dress like they did back home the kids either aren't allowed to mix or don't want to mix with kids their own age here and when you have a culture/ideology that forbids women from shaking hands with men and men won't shake hands with women you have a disaster waiting to happen. The ones in my town aren's short of funds, they often have better cars than their neighbours and the cops aren't doing anything about them driving unaccompanied in cars with L plates.

JohnnyFlash · 01-11-2019 1:59pm

auspicious wrote: »

It's fear of the unknown and the strong possibility of a lack of integration. There is an arrogance of even the left to assume the societal pull is always in the direction of westernisation.

The majority of people don’t want asylum seekers in their town. Lots of people also think we are in danger of completely changing the fabric of society by allowing large scale immigration, as well as putting our housing, health, education, and social welfare systems under enormous and unsustainable pressure. Not sure I agree with all that, but that’s what people feel.

Immigration is great for the capitalist men and women of money. It’s not great for Joe and Josephine in a town down the sticks. It’s always about money.

CrabRevolution · 01-11-2019 2:08pm

It seems we've thousands of people condemning these villages and towns for not enthusiastically hosting hundreds of immigrants, but no town ever seems to volunteer to take them in themselves.

I'm also curious about the abuse these villages get after rejecting these plans. You'll see accusations of them being backwards, boring, nowhere towns that have no right to object to anything. Does that not only lend support to the suspicions from the locals that the towns are seen by officialdom as unimportant spots only suitable as a dumping grounds for immigrants out of sight?

kowloon · 01-11-2019 2:14pm

If I wanted to persuade people Syria wasn't actually that bad I'd put them on a rock with no services populated by one of the most insular communities in Ireland.
Direct provision centres are bad for everyone except the owner of the centre.

That said, I'm sure there are plenty of racists hiding behind the same concerns, and I'm sure they also say things about Irish poverty and homelessness while not actually giving a **** about that either. If we had proper homes for immigrants and serious improvements to our healthcare system etc. it would be a lot easier to separate the racists from the rest of us.

I think the racist brand get applied to easily and it dilutes the meaning of the term.

Bobblehats · 01-11-2019 2:22pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The majority of people don’t want asylum seekers in their town. Lots of people also think we are in danger of completely changing the fabric of society by allowing large scale immigration, as well as putting our housing, health, education, and social welfare systems under enormous and unsustainable pressure. Not sure I agree with all that, but that’s what people feel.

Immigration is great for the capitalist men and women of money. It’s not great for Joe and Josephine in a town down the sticks. It’s always about money.

Correct. There’s very little love involved, It’s almost all about money

When the the social engineering from which we are under siege has become so mainstream apparent just how brainwashed do we have to be to still buy it. All this about extinction rebellion, so where is it? When we are literally selling our people right out of existence it’s time to call it a halt.

Cordell · 01-11-2019 2:33pm

Mules wrote: »

I agree there is structural problems with the health system. Having said that I had a look at stats in health expenditure when adjusted to amount per capita and we do spend less than Greece, Chile and various eastern European countries. At any rate population growth is exacerbating the problems in both health and housing. It's a massive factor in shortages in all public services. It's not the only factor but it's a problem.

Adjusted to the GDP per capita probably, that is in fact true but irrelevant - there is no GDP in the hospital, only people. And for every patient Ireland spends quite a lot, somewhere in the top 10 there, while the quality is nowhere near that.
I've been as an inpatient in 3 Limerick hospitals including the maternity - the foreign staff vastly outnumbers the foreign inpatients, so here is probably where immigration actually helped. Highly skilled immigration (like myself

) also helps paying for all that.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 01-11-2019 3:19pm

Media in this country are really cowards. Remember the crash was all our fault because we partied too hard? Now badly planned emigration policies are our fault too because we are all racist.

Gynoid · 01-11-2019 3:42pm

auspicious wrote: »

It's fear of the unknown and the strong possibility of a lack of integration. There is an arrogance of even the left to assume the societal pull is always in the direction of westernisation.

That arrogance of assuming automatic westernisation is a very big issue. It is reflective of a sort of paternalism or being lady bountiful (to cover both genders of the idea), helping out the poor godforsaken people, and making them better. As if they have no strong voice and strong ideas of their own. Which they bloody well do.

I know some people who spent a few years working in Africa with NGOs. Some are grand but some would sicken your sh1te with their indulgence of their own narcissism, patronising admiration for the ''native'' and their saviour complexes. It really is reverse racism.

Integration is often not what is happening in Europe. I have seen videos of demos in Copenhagen where large groups fly black ISIS flags and chant about death to the infidels. Terrifying really. There are schools and religious buildings in the UK where children are thought contempt for the people in the country they now live in. A friend of mine is a school teacher in Sweden and there can be trouble with imigrant kids not shaking the hands of Swedish kids, or not wanting to eat in the same room. There are streets in Paris where women are not permitted to enter cafes. This sort of stuff blows my mind.

PostWoke · 01-11-2019 3:45pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

One of the things i was proud of in ireland was there was no far right groups.

But looks like we are are xenophobic as the rest of them:

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/1031/1087856-achill-asylum-seekers/

Those protestors should hang their heads in shame.

im a bit disappointed the department of justice is bowing to pressure.

Nope, these people are concerned for their own. We have 10,000 homeless, we're about to lose 50,000 jobs, Breixt and probably another recession are on the way. We cannot be giving handouts now.

Also weird thing to be conscientiously proud of. And btw not that these lot are radicalized right, but there have been radicalized right in Ireland since they were a thing.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 01-11-2019 4:13pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

One of the things i was proud of in ireland was there was no far right groups.

Until about 25 years ago, especially in rural areas, Ireland was a homogeneous country. It was plagued by regular waves of emigration, not immigration. Only 31 people sought asylum in Ireland in 1991.

The Irish could easily pride themselves on not being racist when there was practically nobody to be racist against.

But when Eastern Europeans and Nigerians began streaming into the country by the thousands, the Irish found out that they could be just as hostile as any other nation to immigrants. No surprises there.

end of the road · 01-11-2019 4:17pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Nope, these people are concerned for their own. We have 10,000 homeless, we're about to lose 50,000 jobs, Breixt and probably another recession are on the way. We cannot be giving handouts now.

Also weird thing to be conscientiously proud of. And btw not that these lot are radicalized right, but there have been radicalized right in Ireland since they were a thing.

they may claim to be concerned about their own, but they aren't really given that many of them will be voting at the next election for parties that have screwed over our own since the foundation of the state.
the reason they don't want these migrants housed in their area is very unlikely to be due to caring about their own, or the suitability of the area. after all it's good enough for them to live in isn't it.
people can protest whatever they like, if and when they like, but they don't have any right to stop someone from being housed, and the department canceling the dp centre is just giving into those types, for which not an inch should be given.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 01-11-2019 4:26pm

TheSegal wrote: »

Achill Island, in particular the Achill head, is one of the most depressing places in existence during the Winter months with very few services. Could the 13 asylum seekers not be placed closer to Galway/Westport?

I love Achill all year round. It’s a gorgeous place.

Antares35 · 01-11-2019 4:53pm

Mules wrote: »

I appear to have, can you clarify?

My point was that I find it irritating when people pretend to care about social issues as a smokescreen to deflect their own bias or agenda. I did not mention a. that I don't care about these issues or b. that you don't, yet you have responded to my post by a. telling me that I don't care and b. telling me that you do! I wasn't trying to tell you that you don't but I think it's only realistic to accept that some people are disingenuous about this.

I do care about these issues - I work in this area myself (not in mental health but in another social services area (without disclosing my place of employment). I just don't like faux concern being used as a scapegoat for something else. You hear it all the time - "oh what about this and that?" from people who genuinely, in their entire lives, have never done an iota to help out or address the issue of whatever "this and that" might be.

So we have become xenophobics now

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