Is Organised Child Trafficking in America for Real?

banie01 · 24-10-2019 2:29pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I have already provided an answer as to why I didn't include it. I did look for more information and found none.
I try to deal in facts.
The charging of someone that could be yet be innocent does not detract from the substantive issue.
You're trying to assert that because there was a personal connection between the murdered and accused it therefor dismisses any possibility of a wider conspiracy. It does not.
The inclusion of the quote you are referring would be an excellent example of framing.

Your dismissal of the information already provided by continually asserting half truths and providing no evidence says a lot.

I am not being deliberately aggressive. That you find it so is your problem.

You have quite a curious window on the world.

I wish you well in shaping more of the narrative to fit it

Your severe lack of comprehension won't do you any favours in building a defensible thesis however.

You deliberately omit information, yet can't understand how you expound a half truth?
You defend that ommision, by claiming to not want to impugne a potentially innocent person who had been charged with the crime?
By impugning multiple albeit unnamed "perpetrators" who are responsible for child rape and murder...

But your viewpoint is that it's logical to assume that the victims were killed as part of the conspiracy?
The conspiracy that you have yet to provide any substantiation for?

Now you mention I have asserted that because there is a personal relationship between a particular victim and the accused that I am dismissing a conspiracy?

Where did I do that? Quote it please?

Lay out please your evidence that could logically allow such a widespread conspiracy to be inferred?
Or are we to rely on your habit of ommission?

banie01 · 24-10-2019 2:30pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I see you're still ignoring my question? Interesting.

What question?
There wasn't one in your last post addressed to me?
And your previous one has been answered thrice already!?
Including in my most recent repl.

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 2:44pm

banie01 wrote: »

What question?
There wasn't one in your last post addressed to me?
And your previous one has been answered thrice already!?
Including in my most recent repl.

I asked you more than once to supply your evidence of half truths.
There has not yet been a conclusion drawn on what you would wish me to include. Leaving it out can not be, by any stretch, considered a half truth.

In any case you asserted there were half truths before any mention of the reportage you keep talking about, which is now in this thread for all to see, including my opinion on it.

banie01 · 24-10-2019 3:08pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I asked you more than once to supply your evidence of half truths.
There has not yet been a conclusion drawn on what you would wish me to include. Leaving it out can not be, by any stretch, considered a half truth.

In any case you asserted there were half truths before any mention of the reportage you keep talking about, which is now in this thread for all to see, including my opinion on it.

It has been explained to you, your decision to deliberately omit what you consider reportage is a deliberate ommision calculated to allow the story you are pushing appear more plausible.

That you call it reportage and claim to deal in "facts" is quite telling IMO.
You are trying to shape the immediate 1st impression based upon precisely the act of ignoring pertinent facts?
A little hypocritical really.

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 3:15pm

banie01 wrote: »

It has been explained to you, your decision to deliberately omit what you consider reportage is a deliberate ommision calculated to allow the story you are pushing appear more plausible.

That you call it reportage and claim to deal in "facts" is quite telling IMO.
You are trying to shape the immediate 1st impression based upon precisely the act of ignoring pertinent facts?
A little hypocritical really.

Funny, it's not the only murder I posted on.
Is there some reason you're focusing one one element and ignoring the rest?
Is it deliberate?
And where are your claims of multiple half truths gone?
Provide evidence or go away.

runawaybishop · 24-10-2019 3:16pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Interesting.

Whats interesting about it, you read too much into simple stuff.

runawaybishop · 24-10-2019 3:17pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Provide evidence or go away.

Hi Pot.

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 3:17pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Whats interesting about it, you read too much into simple stuff.

Maybe I do. I'm a skeptic. Just a comment.

runawaybishop · 24-10-2019 3:18pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Maybe I do. I'm a skeptic. Just a comment.

You are far from a skeptic, you believe any old nonsense posted on weird sites.

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 3:19pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Hi Pot.

Hi, Sorry it's not sufficient enough for you Kettle.:)

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 3:24pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

You are far from a skeptic, you believe any old nonsense posted on weird sites.

I'll admit the first link that I provided is considered questionable. I explained earlier that I posted it for the three media comments on that page. I really shouldn't have but I'd been up all night digging around.
The other links can't be considered as 'weird sites'.

TaurenDruid · 24-10-2019 3:24pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

i wonder who got caught taking kids out of Haiti.
start off on that.
i can go on.

From memory, that was an American "Christian" adoption agency...

banie01 · 24-10-2019 3:32pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Funny, it's not the only murder I posted on.
Is there some reason you're focusing one one element and ignoring the rest?
Is it deliberate?
And where are your claims of multiple half truths gone?
Provide evidence or go away.

I'm still waiting for you to actually lay out the conspiracy?
Evidence of your selective quoting and half truths has already been provided to you, and then explained in language that you failed to grasp multiple times.
Now that you have grasped it, you want more?
Without ever actually laying out the "facts"or indeed skeleton of the conspiracy that seems to rely on unknown, pernicious, local politician murdering paedophiles?

TaurenDruid · 24-10-2019 3:34pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

An extract;

"The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion by President Bill Clinton, offered cash “bonuses” to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. In order to receive the “adoption incentive bonuses” local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sell and you must have plenty of them so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 bonus for each child adopted and an additional $2,000 for a “special needs” child."

On one occasion when asked to travel to Washington she insisted on heavy security or she would not travel.

If any links are not working let me know. Someone is making them hard to access.

You realise that there are literally thousands of children in U.S. fostercare, too many for the system to cope with, and that the American fostercare system has really bad outcomes for kids? Which is why they introduced this incentive - to get more (slightly older, more likely to be non-Caucasian) children adopted from the system rather than have Americans adopting white babies from Russia and eastern Europe?

Are you really just taking a long, long time to work around to posting about the pizzagate conspiracy theory?

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 3:42pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

You realise that there are literally thousands of children in U.S. fostercare, too many for the system to cope with, and that the American fostercare system has really bad outcomes for kids? Which is why they introduced this incentive - to get more (slightly older, more likely to be non-Caucasian) children adopted from the system rather than have Americans adopting white babies from Russia and eastern Europe?

Are you really just taking a long, long time to work around to posting about the pizzagate conspiracy theory?

Yes I know the system is overburdened. I found the figures for Arizona and was amazed at the increase since 2002. Those figures showed a general decrease for the States as a whole.
I copied the graph in picture form but still have not found a way to upload it here.

On the incentives, you do realize that is only an extract from a longer document that has credence?
http://fightcps.com/pdf/thecorruptbusinessofchildprotectiveservices.pdf

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 3:59pm

banie01 wrote: »

I'm still waiting for you to actually lay out the conspiracy?
Evidence of your selective quoting and half truths has already been provided to you, and then explained in language that you failed to grasp multiple times.
Now that you have grasped it, you want more?
Without ever actually laying out the "facts"or indeed skeleton of the conspiracy that seems to rely on unknown, pernicious, local politician murdering paedophiles?

"Grasped it"?
"Local politicians murdering paedophiles"?

Please back your assertions of multiple half truths.

banie01 · 24-10-2019 4:08pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

"Grasped it"?
"Local politicians murdering paedophiles"?

Please back your assertions of multiple half truths.

So you are going to tread water and ad hominem rather than lay out your conspiracy?
Brilliant discourse!

Really amazing foundation for building yourself some support for your theory...

How about rather than reinforce the fact that you have already been shown at best to be inattentive, and at worse deliberately lying by omission to shape a specific narrative view, that you lay out whatever actual facts that you are seeking to rely on?

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 4:10pm

banie01 wrote: »

So you are going to tread water and and hominem rather than lay out your conspiracy?
Brilliant discourse!

Really amazing foundation for building yourself some support for your theory...

How about rather than reinforce the fact that you have already been shown at best to be inattentive, and at worse deliberately lying by omission to shape a specific narrative view, that you lay out whatever actual facts that you are seeking to rely on?

No proof from you then, just insults.
I won't be seeing any more of your posts. Bye.

“Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harboring hostile thoughts.”

banie01 · 24-10-2019 4:14pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

No proof from you then, just insults.
I won't be seeing any more of your posts. Bye.

If you feel I've insulted you, please ..
Use the report button..

Running from a question?
Ignoring the proof already laid out as to your half truths?
Those are facts, you've yet to present any of those despite being asked many times.

Overheal · 24-10-2019 4:35pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Yes I know the system is overburdened. I found the figures for Arizona and was amazed at the increase since 2002. Those figures showed a general decrease for the States as a whole.
I copied the graph in picture form but still have not found a way to upload it here.

On the incentives, you do realize that is only an extract from a longer document that has credence?
http://fightcps.com/pdf/thecorruptbusinessofchildprotectiveservices.pdf

" By 2007, the state required mandatory ultrasounds before women could have an abortion. Abortion became illegal in Arizona in April 2012 after week 20. Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers (TRAP) existed by 2013. Republican Representative Michelle Udall in Arizona's House with 20 other co-sponsors to provide $2.5 million annually for a period of three years to anti-abortion women's reproductive clinics as part of efforts to defund Planned Parenthood.

The total number of abortion clinics in Arizona have been declining for years, going from thirty-seven in 1982 to twenty-eight in 1992 to nine in 2014. In 2014, there were 12,914 abortions in the state. The next year, there were 12,644 abortions. In 2010, there were fourteen publicly funded abortions in the state. Abortion and religion have intersected in the state, particularly in the case of Sr. Margaret Mary McBride, R.S.M., a Sister of Mercy. The state also has an active abortion rights community, with women participating in #StoptheBans movement in May 2019."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Arizona

Something I've been harping on my Congressman for years: he wants abortions outlawed but has never lifted a finger or mentioned a word about foster care. Due to TRAP laws and even more recent "Trigger" laws, abortions are on the decline and adoptions are up, because many people aren't given the choice.

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 4:56pm

Overheal wrote: »

" By 2007, the state required mandatory ultrasounds before women could have an abortion. Abortion became illegal in Arizona in April 2012 after week 20. Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers (TRAP) existed by 2013. Republican Representative Michelle Udall in Arizona's House with 20 other co-sponsors to provide $2.5 million annually for a period of three years to anti-abortion women's reproductive clinics as part of efforts to defund Planned Parenthood.

The total number of abortion clinics in Arizona have been declining for years, going from thirty-seven in 1982 to twenty-eight in 1992 to nine in 2014. In 2014, there were 12,914 abortions in the state. The next year, there were 12,644 abortions. In 2010, there were fourteen publicly funded abortions in the state. Abortion and religion have intersected in the state, particularly in the case of Sr. Margaret Mary McBride, R.S.M., a Sister of Mercy. The state also has an active abortion rights community, with women participating in #StoptheBans movement in May 2019."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Arizona

Something I've been harping on my Congressman for years: he wants abortions outlawed but has never lifted a finger or mentioned a word about foster care. Due to TRAP laws and even more recent "Trigger" laws, abortions are on the decline and adoptions are up, because many people aren't given the choice.

That could certainly account for the above average increase of 80% in AZ.
However, other States still show big increases of around 40%, NV,UT,AK,MS,IA and IN.
Have they also had the same bans put in place? The figures that I've seen are from the DHHS and cover 2002 to 2012.

I'm happy to email you the graph. Being a bit of a Luddite I haven't figured how to upload it.

Overheal · 24-10-2019 6:25pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

That could certainly account for the above average increase of 80% in AZ.
However, other States still show big increases of around 40%, NV,UT,AK,MS,IA and IN.
Have they also had the same bans put in place? The figures that I've seen are from the DHHS and cover 2002 to 2012.

I'm happy to email you the graph. Being a bit of a Luddite I haven't figured how to upload it.

Well you did list Conservative states that tend to vote-in Republicans with a mandate to curtail or ban abortions.

Spencerfreeman · 24-10-2019 6:55pm

Overheal wrote: »

Well you did list Conservative states that tend to vote-in Republicans with a mandate to curtail or ban abortions.

Dohnjoe · 24-10-2019 8:15pm

Can we get an overview of the conspiracy here

Cheerful Spring2 · 24-10-2019 8:51pm

Epstein case disappeared from the news quickly. He was a child trafficker. Who got arrested since? Yet we know he multiple accomplices.

Dohnjoe · 25-10-2019 6:06pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I may have found something of a conspiracy.
The witness William Fain, was the one who provided the reasons (which were used officially by the police and media) as to why he thought Bear, Nancy Scheafer's husband, had shot her in the back as she lay in bed and then himself.
I have some information that he had spent the week prior to the murder around Nancy's house and therefore knew of Nancy's intentions.
She was due to give congressional testimony days after her murder.
She reported receiving many threats that week.
The house had security cameras, the tapes seem to have disappeared.

Fain, who had been taken into Nancy's confidence and was due to release a film which included hidden microphone and camera footage of the most serious kind of pedophile abuse, he provided a description, subsequently never did produce it.
He had solemnly promised her husband that he would, having been told by Bear that it was the most important thing in the world to Nancy.

I would appreciate any info that anyone may have.

Okay, and what is the source (or sources) for the above?

Spencerfreeman · 28-10-2019 2:29am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, and what is the source (or sources) for the above?

I have asked both you, twice, and a Mod once, to remove that quote above as it contains inaccurate information about a living person.
Due to the silence and inaction I have to assume some collaboration.

William Fain was not the source. Their daughter found the bodies on Friday, he corroborated the 'suicide' note on the Monday when he returned to the house.
The Police have never released the note, causing suspicion and leading many to question their inaction.
William Fain has never released the film. The contents of which he had described in harrowing detail.

Dohnjoe · 28-10-2019 11:49am

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I have asked both you, twice, and a Mod once, to remove that quote above as it contains inaccurate information about a living person.
Due to the silence and inaction I have to assume some collaboration.

William Fain was not the source. Their daughter found the bodies on Friday, he corroborated the 'suicide' note on the Monday when he returned to the house.
The Police have never released the note, causing suspicion and leading many to question their inaction.
William Fain has never released the film. The contents of which he had described in harrowing detail.

You do understand, compromising info must be preserved. I'm just the messenger.

Spencerfreeman · 28-10-2019 1:17pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You do understand, compromising info must be preserved. I'm just the messenger.

Ha, thanks Dohnjoe. Sunlight is best anyway.

Overheal · 29-10-2019 2:29pm

Conspiracy .... Confirmed!

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/10/28/elected-arizona-official-accused-of-selling-babies-suspended/

banie01 · 29-10-2019 2:37pm

Overheal wrote: »

Conspiracy .... Confirmed!

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/10/28/elected-arizona-official-accused-of-selling-babies-suspended/

Very interesting!

I'd find his religious background and missionary affiliations to be almost as pertinent to his crime here as his political standing TBH?

As a member of the board of supervisors he is even more akin to a county councillor than the previously mentioned state senators.

There may well be further political graft and capital involved given the number of adoptions.

A horrible indictment of U.S however in that in a state with an overcrowded foster care system, that somehow the importation and adoption of babies is allowed while children are left to endure their foster system...

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 3:09pm

Overheal wrote: »

Conspiracy .... Confirmed!

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/10/28/elected-arizona-official-accused-of-selling-babies-suspended/

I'm scared to click the link to that pile of poo site. Anything reliable?

Overheal · 29-10-2019 3:28pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I'm scared to click the link to that pile of poo site. Anything reliable?

Your personal hang ups aren’t my problem

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 3:30pm

Overheal wrote: »

Your personal hang ups aren’t my problem

I try to practice diligence and fairness.
Put up a synopsis then.

You know you're not supposed to drop links, naughty boy!

Overheal · 29-10-2019 3:55pm

The synopsis was conspiracy confirmed

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 4:01pm

Overheal wrote: »

The synopsis was conspiracy confirmed

Sez you. The last time I looked at snopes to confirm something I got a surprise at how wrong it was.

Dohnjoe · 29-10-2019 4:05pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Sez you. The last time I looked at snopes to confirm something I got a surprise at how wrong it was.

I got my money on Snopes

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 4:10pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I got my money on Snopes

We'll see. I wouldn't put much on.

Overheal · 29-10-2019 4:31pm

it's an AP report....

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 4:33pm

Overheal wrote: »

it's an AP report....

I still see nothing to substantiate your dropped link.....

Overheal · 29-10-2019 4:35pm

Well no not if you're refusing to look at the article.

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 4:37pm

Overheal wrote: »

Well no not if you're refusing to look at the article.

I thought it was better if compromising info was preserved.

Post it.

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 5:29pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I got my money on Snopes

Just to add, as someone familiar with betting, it's always best to establish the exact parameters of the bet you're placing.

Overheal · 29-10-2019 6:21pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

I thought it was better if compromising info was preserved.

Post it.

No.

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 6:29pm

Overheal wrote: »

No.

ok.

Do you concede that I have shown that there was a conspiracy of silence then?

Sorry that is a bit unfair when I haven't posted the links to back it up yet.
But I can.

Overheal · 29-10-2019 9:19pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

Do you concede that I have shown that there was a conspiracy of silence then?

I would review what the news is reporting on the matter.

Spencerfreeman · 29-10-2019 9:30pm

Overheal wrote: »

I would review what the news is reporting on the matter.

I would recommend checking out primary documents.
Look at the FBI Twitter feed on The Finders.
I think they're throwing what is a CIA sub group on the fire.
I'll send you a link if you can't find it.

I warn you it's a real surprise.
I haven't posted any more on this subject because it takes a mental toll on me.

Spencerfreeman · 30-10-2019 2:20pm

The Finders

It's not directly connected to the three dead State Senators which this thread is about nor a conspiracy theory, like the thread, but I'm going to add the link here.

https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders/the-finders-part-01-of-01/view?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Representative Tom Lewis of Florida elaborated. “Could our own government have something to do with this Finders organization and turned their backs on these children? That’s what all the evidence points to.” He went on. “And there is a lot of evidence. I can tell you this: we’ve got a lot of people scrambling, and that wouldn’t be happening if there was nothing here.”

TaurenDruid · 30-10-2019 2:27pm

404

Spencerfreeman · 30-10-2019 2:28pm

Still opening for me.

Is Organised Child Trafficking in America for Real?

Comments