Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

mr spuckler · 21-04-2017 9:59am

jive wrote: »

Had one this morning on the slip road right after Leeson bridge which leads to the top of Harcourt street (not sure of actual name, Adelaide road?). Wide enough road with parking on both sides, car went to overtake me with a van coming against us. I always leave a door-width to the parked cars so was not a close call for me really, the van driver wasn't impressed with the car.

Needless to say with it being the city centre at 8.15am I went by the car again 200m up the road at the lights by the Luas tracks. I have to say there's something more annoying about the totally pointless ones.

i've had numerous dangerous overtakes there, by cars overtaking me on the bridge and then turning left immediately onto Adelaide road. the fact that it's happened to me several times means i know it's coming as they skim past me and hence am ready to jump on the brakes but it still pisses me off no end.

kind of on the same point, has anyone ever gone to the gardaí and asked them to pay attention to a particular junction etc? like it really would be shooting fish in a barrel if they stood there during rush hour every morning. i'm thinking of doing it for a cycle lane in raheny that's constantly parked in during its hours of use / operation.

Chuchote · 21-04-2017 10:04am

One of the most horrible dangers of Irish drivers is the habit of indicating as they are turning!

V-man · 21-04-2017 10:12am

Chuchote wrote: »

One of the most horrible dangers of Irish drivers is the habit of indicating as they are turning!

What indicator? Half of the time not used at all

shootermacg · 21-04-2017 10:13am

mr spuckler wrote: »

i've had numerous dangerous overtakes there, by cars overtaking me on the bridge and then turning left immediately onto Adelaide road. the fact that it's happened to me several times means i know it's coming as they skim past me and hence am ready to jump on the brakes but it still pisses me off no end.

kind of on the same point, has anyone ever gone to the gardaí and asked them to pay attention to a particular junction etc? like it really would be shooting fish in a barrel if they stood there during rush hour every morning. i'm thinking of doing it for a cycle lane in raheny that's constantly parked in during its hours of use / operation.

The simple fact is, the Gardai are two busy sitting on their arses blowing into breathalyzers to do any real work. I've been cycling for a long time now and I rarely see any on my travels.

mr spuckler · 21-04-2017 10:16am

and one of my recurring themes that bores people in real life is the complete lack of enforcement of any road traffic laws...

Pinch Flat · 21-04-2017 10:18am

Chuchote wrote: »

One of the most horrible dangers of Irish drivers is the habit of indicating as they are turning!

The general assumption is that an indicator gives you right of way, which is not the case.

Roadhawk · 21-04-2017 10:30am

V-man wrote: »

What indicator? Half of the time not used at all

I agree, too many drivers are settling into bad habits such as this which completely fudges up the efficient (and safe) order of traffic continuity for all road users.

If only the Gardai had the powers to issue a mandatory re-test for bad drivers. I think this would be a great solution to improving the standard of road skills and it would stimulate jobs in the motor testing

Chuchote · 21-04-2017 10:31am

mr spuckler wrote: »

i've had numerous dangerous overtakes there, by cars overtaking me on the bridge and then turning left immediately onto Adelaide road. the fact that it's happened to me several times means i know it's coming as they skim past me and hence am ready to jump on the brakes but it still pisses me off no end.

kind of on the same point, has anyone ever gone to the gardaí and asked them to pay attention to a particular junction etc? like it really would be shooting fish in a barrel if they stood there during rush hour every morning. i'm thinking of doing it for a cycle lane in raheny that's constantly parked in during its hours of use / operation.

Actually it quite possibly might result in action. For a few months there was a garda in full uniform and hi-viz pouncing on drivers outside Trinity College. Maybe it's my imagination, but I thought it gradually made driving at that nasty junction less reckless.

What's the name of the yoke where you're supposed to report dangerous driving - Traffic Watch or something like that? Is there an app?

Annie get your Run · 21-04-2017 10:32am

mr spuckler wrote: »

kind of on the same point, has anyone ever gone to the gardaí and asked them to pay attention to a particular junction etc? like it really would be shooting fish in a barrel if they stood there during rush hour every morning. i'm thinking of doing it for a cycle lane in raheny that's constantly parked in during its hours of use / operation.

I've thought about it! But the section of my commute that I'd be suggesting they monitor is covered by Blanchardstown Garda Station and I've a feeling I'd get very short shift!

Did anyone else see the Garda at the junction of Conyngham Road and Infirmary road this morning? They just seemed to be 'there' not sure if they were trying to catch red light jumpers or what.

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2017 10:32am

mr spuckler wrote: »

i've had numerous dangerous overtakes there, by cars overtaking me on the bridge and then turning left immediately onto Adelaide road. the fact that it's happened to me several times means i know it's coming as they skim past me and hence am ready to jump on the brakes but it still pisses me off no end.

It's the idiots who block the cycle/pedestrian crossing at that bridge that get my goat. How hard is it to read the road ahead and predict that traffic gets heavy at rush hour so you may not be able to complete the crossing, and just hold back instead? There could well be 100+ pedestrians and 50+ bikes crossing at any change of lights on a busy day, and they frequently have to squeeze past some selfish git blocking the crossing.

This morning I got a lecture from a guy for 'nearly causing a crash' because I changed lane to make a right turn. I think he was really pi$$ed that the lady in front of him let me in. He went on to blow through a very late amber at the next lights and get stuck in the middle of the crossing on the red.

Annie get your Run · 21-04-2017 11:18am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's the idiots who block the cycle/pedestrian crossing at that bridge that get my goat. How hard is it to read the road ahead and predict that traffic gets heavy at rush hour so you may not be able to complete the crossing, and just hold back instead? There could well be 100+ pedestrians and 50+ bikes crossing at any change of lights on a busy day, and they frequently have to squeeze past some selfish git blocking the crossing.

This morning I got a lecture from a guy for 'nearly causing a crash' because I changed lane to make a right turn. I think he was really pi$$ed that the lady in front of him let me in. He went on to blow through a very late amber at the next lights and get stuck in the middle of the crossing on the red.

:eek::eek::eek: But but BUT they're so IMPORTANT, they need to be somewhere quicker than everyone else dontcha know :rolleyes:

TBH I think they do read the road ahead and think to themselves "I don't care I'm getting through these lights come hell or high water"

Sarz91 · 21-04-2017 11:27am

Cycling in this morning through donnybrook a cyclist in front of me was close to causing an accident. I left a decent amount of room when i went to overtake, I'm talking a bus lane worth of room. As I'm overtaking she swings right into me. Having never indicated i didn't see this coming, she didn't look over her shoulder to check if there was oncoming traffic she just all of a sudden veered sharply to the right. Had it been a bus or a motorbike it could well have been the end of her.

radia · 21-04-2017 11:34am

Coming in this morning I stopped for a red light at Charlemont St bridge. White van was to the right of me. When the light went green, I was faster off the mark than he was, so I'd crossed the junction and was halfway across the bridge before he caught up with me. Nonetheless he still felt it was important at that point to overtake me in order to immediately cut across me (about 6 inches to spare) and turn left in front of the Barge. No indication of course. Gobsh*te. I estimate he saved approx. 1.5 secs by not remaining behind me for those last few metres (i.e. the second half of the bridge's length). Seemed utterly oblivious to any potential problem as he left hooked me. Sure I was only a cyclist, and the lane he was cutting across was just a cycle track; I couldn't possibly be going fast and would obviously yield to the far more important van driver.
And yet I bet he wouldn't move across an inside car lane like that.

https://goo.gl/maps/2EiFsEjqXJv

Later in the same journey, a cyclist ahead of me was nearly taken out of it as we went along Hatch St, by a car swinging across her to turn left into the entrance between the back of the concert hall and the Iveagh Gardens. Again, no hesitation or indication by the car, just turned without a second thought.

This kind of thing happens so often that it doesn't even shock/scare me as much as it used to.

trente · 21-04-2017 11:45am

Cyclists, please stop breaking lights. Some of the near misses for pedestrians at red lights is also dangerous and too common

Pinch Flat · 21-04-2017 11:49am

trente wrote: »

Cyclists, please stop breaking lights. Some of the near misses for pedestrians at red lights is also dangerous and too common

I agree. I'd also request the same of zombie pedestrians, more of whom seem to be fixated on phone screens - the Luas tracks at heuston / park gate street is a bug bear of mine.

I had a millennial Mid-FaceTime reprimand me recently in the cycle lane at Kevin street when she nearly walked into me. Like, LOL.

trente · 21-04-2017 11:51am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I agree. I'd also request the same of zombie pedestrians, more of whom seem to be fixated on phone screens - the Luas tracks at heuston / park gate street is a bug bear of mine.

I had a millennial Mid-FaceTime reprimand me recently in the cycle lane at Kevin street when she nearly walked into me. Like, LOL.

I definitely agree. 100%

mrcheez · 21-04-2017 11:54am

trente wrote: »

Cyclists, please stop breaking lights when the roadway isn't clear or pedestrians are crossing, otherwise it's just a mild annoyance. Some of the near misses for pedestrians at red lights is also dangerous and too common

FYP

trente · 21-04-2017 11:56am

mrcheez wrote: »

FYP

Is it the law that cyclist mustn't break lights?

Tombo2001 · 21-04-2017 11:58am

trente wrote: »

Cyclists, please stop breaking lights. Some of the near misses for pedestrians at red lights is also dangerous and too common

Just an FYI

(My understanding is)
The last recorded pedestrian death due to a collision with a cyclist was in 2002.
The last recorded pedestrian cyclist death due to a collision with a pedestrian was in 2015 (this took place on a cycle lane).

Of course you are right, cyclists break red lights and this is an annoyance and potentially dangerous to pedestrians. However, its not part of the conversation around high level risks on the road, from a statistical perspective (in other words, its not a significant cause of severe accidents).

mp31 · 21-04-2017 12:03pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Jesus that's beyond awful, I hope you're okay KS and here's hoping the motorist gets what they deserve. Glad to hear others stopped to help.

+1... and please report it via TrafficWatch

Tenzor07 · 21-04-2017 12:03pm

trente wrote: »

Cyclists, please stop breaking lights. Some of the near misses for pedestrians at red lights is also dangerous and too common

I don't see you going onto the Motors forums asking Car/van or Motorbike drivers to slow down and not break red lights etc, a far bigger cause of serious pedestrian(and cyclist) injuries and worse than a pedal cyclist!

Beasty · 21-04-2017 12:04pm

trente

Coming into a forum you've never been in before lecturing regulars on issues they've been lectured on hundreds of times before is not appreciated. Continuing to do so after this warning will be considered trolling

If you have any questions please PM me - do not respond to this warning in thread

Everyone else - there's no need to respond further to trente's posts

Thanks

BoardsMember · 21-04-2017 12:07pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

i've had numerous dangerous overtakes there, by cars overtaking me on the bridge and then turning left immediately onto Adelaide road. the fact that it's happened to me several times means i know it's coming as they skim past me and hence am ready to jump on the brakes but it still pisses me off no end.

kind of on the same point, has anyone ever gone to the gardaí and asked them to pay attention to a particular junction etc? like it really would be shooting fish in a barrel if they stood there during rush hour every morning. i'm thinking of doing it for a cycle lane in raheny that's constantly parked in during its hours of use / operation.

I did late last year. Cyclists (of which I am one) were routinely breaking the pedestrian lights in Terenure in the morning, lights outside the boys national school and Aldi. So a busy crossing with kids, buggies, parents crossing all the time from 8.30 to 9. I contacted the Gardai and the next day and the following days there was someone town-side of the lights pulling in cyclists. I also brought to their attention that the sequence for Green Man was very short, quickly going flashing amber, which cyclists took as a blast-through signal. Within a week they had remarked the crossing, changed the lights and changed the sequence so that it is a long Green Man now. So it is worth a shot.

V-man · 21-04-2017 12:12pm

RayCun wrote: »

How about

would you be happy if car drivers adopted a policy of rolling up, taking a look, and driving through when they thought it was safe?

Yes, cars are bigger and heavier, but if the roadway is clear and there are no pedestrians crossing, that's not a problem, is it?

That is exactly what I see motorists doing everyday, everywhere, multiple times.
But why people only complain about cyclists and turning a blind eye for the real problem, motorists?

RayCun · 21-04-2017 12:19pm

V-man wrote: »

That is exactly what I see motorists doing everyday, everywhere, multiple times.
But why people only complain about cyclists and turning a blind a day for the real problem, motorists?

What makes you think I turn a blind eye to motorists?

It's much more dangerous when a car goes through lights, or a driver is on the phone, or not paying attention to other road users. The gardai should crack down on it, I'd feel a lot safer if traffic laws were enforced.

But, as we all know, there is no clear division between cyclists and motorists. People cycle sometimes, they drive sometimes. And when I see cyclists ignoring traffic lights, for example, because they reckon it is safe, I wonder what they are like when they get behind the wheel.

Tombo2001 · 21-04-2017 12:25pm

RayCun wrote: »

What makes you think I turn a blind eye to motorists?

It's much more dangerous when a car goes through lights, or a driver is on the phone, or not paying attention to other road users. The gardai should crack down on it, I'd feel a lot safer if traffic laws were enforced.

But, as we all know, there is no clear division between cyclists and motorists. People cycle sometimes, they drive sometimes. And when I see cyclists ignoring traffic lights, for example, because they reckon it is safe, I wonder what they are like when they get behind the wheel.

My own view is that being both a cyclist and a motorist will make you better at both cycling and driving. You understand both perspectives.

You are right that a lot of cyclists are also motorists. A substantial portion aren't - especially teenagers and young foreign nationals.

However, most motorists are not also cyclists.

Tenzor07 · 21-04-2017 12:25pm

RayCun wrote: »

but, as we all know, there is no clear division between cyclists and motorists. People cycle sometimes, they drive sometimes. And when I see cyclists ignoring traffic lights, for example, because they reckon it is safe, I wonder what they are like when they get behind the wheel.

So what do you think cyclist to motorist and vice-versa are like when they switch modes of transport?

RayCun · 21-04-2017 12:30pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So what do you think cyclist to motorist and vice-versa are like when they switch modes of transport?

I'm unlikely to recognise another cyclist seeing them cycling again a week later. Chances of recognising them when they are driving a car are much lower. So I can't really tell.

I'm sure some are better drivers, because they are on the look-out for cyclists.

Perhaps some are terrible drivers, because it doesn't matter which mode of transport they are using, they ignore the rules of the road and do whatever is most convenient for them.

Tenzor07 · 21-04-2017 12:36pm

RayCun wrote: »

Perhaps some are terrible drivers, because it doesn't matter which mode of transport they are using, they ignore the rules of the road and do whatever is most convenient for them.

I think you answered your own question so, that people's behavior is not directly related to there mode of transport and more so to there own standards of morality...

RayCun · 21-04-2017 12:42pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I think you answered your own question so, that people's behavior is not directly related to there mode of transport and more so to there own standards of morality...

So you think that cyclists who break the rules are probably also drivers that break the rules?

BoardsMember · 21-04-2017 12:46pm

Speaking for myself, I would never break a light in a car, as a cyclist I would break a light in certain circumstances.

Obviously depends on the individual, but for me I am fairly sure I am more aware of, careful around & courteous to cyclists than I would be if I never cycled a bike.

Johnnio13 · 21-04-2017 12:50pm

+1 Kasir Sose on reporting it.

The majority of the stories here relate to Dublin junctions. I've been through most of them over 15 years of cycling around Dublin and the same ones are still big problems, all mentioned here. (Ranelagh, around the Barge in general, Dorset Street etc. )
Now I'm West the only time (touch wood) I encounter the aggressive driving behaviour is during the morning/evening commute and stupid driving to date has been due to complete lack of use of wing mirrors around Galway city and Salthill. They just don't expect cyclists.
My closest in Galway so far is being over taken by a van driver in Salthill on Monday who I could see in his wing mirror was looking right and immediately after passing me pulls into the curb in front of me. Hadn't seen me at all. I banged on the door and spoke out angrily that he needed to use his f$%king mirrors when making lefts and rights etc. And he just nodded from the safety of the cabin. He even locked the door.
It was only when I was cycling away, fuming, that I saw what spooked him. I had the garden sheers on my cross bar as I just had them sharpened!!

Tenzor07 · 21-04-2017 1:01pm

RayCun wrote: »

So you think that cyclists who break the rules are probably also drivers that break the rules?

Does it matter what I think? You'd have to conduct a survey or behavioral analysis of all road users to find that one out...

magicbastarder · 21-04-2017 1:07pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I would never break a light in a car, as a cyclist I would break a light in certain circumstances.

i adhere to higher standards driving than i would cycling. i've even been known to do a u-turn on a one way road on a bike, a manouevre i'd consider lunatic in a car.

BoardsMember · 21-04-2017 1:27pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i adhere to higher standards driving than i would cycling. i've even been known to do a u-turn on a one way road on a bike, a manouevre i'd consider lunatic in a car.

I think that's the case with a lot of cyclists, certainly is with any friends that I have cycled with anyhow.

RayCun · 21-04-2017 1:29pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I would never break a light in a car, as a cyclist I would break a light in certain circumstances.

If it is okay to break a red light on a bike when it is safe, why is it not okay to break a red light in a car when it is safe?

BoardsMember · 21-04-2017 1:33pm

RayCun wrote: »

If it is okay to break a red light on a bike when it is safe, why is it not okay to break a red light in a car when it is safe?

Who said it was ok?

magicbastarder · 21-04-2017 1:33pm

ehh... because the consequences can be far worse if you do get it wrong?
is that a trick question?

Tombo2001 · 21-04-2017 1:36pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

ehh... because the consequences can be far worse if you do get it wrong?
is that a trick question?

If its ok to drive at 51k an hour in a 50k zone, is it ok to drive at 151k in a 50k zone.

its not ok to do either, by the law.

Lots of people drive at 51k an hour in a 50k zone.

Not many people reach 151k an hour.

V-man · 21-04-2017 1:38pm

"If a cyclist waits for green, and a bus or HGV or car wants to turn left … that’s how most cyclists in London are being killed"

Link:
Should cyclists be allowed to run red lights?

magicbastarder · 21-04-2017 1:44pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If its ok to drive at 51k an hour in a 50k zone, is it ok to drive at 151k in a 50k zone.

its not ok to do either, by the law.

if you want to argue that point; if you're caught doing 51km/h in a 50km/h zone, nothing will happen you.
if you're caught doing 70km/h, you'll be done for speeding.
if you're caught doing 151km/h, you'll be done for dangerous driving.

even the law (or its execution) sees various shades of seriousness in violating it.

RayCun · 21-04-2017 1:45pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

ehh... because the consequences can be far worse if you do get it wrong?

You might kill someone, directly or by causing others to crash, you might get killed.
I don't see much difference in the potential consequences.

(yes, yes, I know - the chances of a cyclist going through a red light resulting in someone's death are vanishingly small. Guess what? The chances of a car going through a pedestrian light and causing someone's death, or going through an it-was-amber-a-minute-ago light and causing someone's death, are also vanishingly small. Thousands of cars do it multiple times a day, and rarely do people die as a result. Does that make it okay?)

Tombo2001 · 21-04-2017 1:46pm

V-man wrote: »

"If a cyclist waits for green, and a bus or HGV or car wants to turn left … that’s how most cyclists in London are being killed"

Link:
Should cyclists be allowed to run red lights?

I think its a very fair point. You are sat at a pedestrian light on O'Connell St with 6 buses, a few vans and taxi drivers you can

(I) wait for the green light and wait for the ten heavy duty vehicles to take off around you, some will be pulling in 50 yards down the road, you'll be overtaking them into busy traffic.

or

(II) break the red light, (at little risk to pedestrians based on historic statistics of accidents reported) and you are in a completely empty road to the next minute or two.

V-man · 21-04-2017 1:47pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I think its a very fair point. You are sat at a pedestrian light on O'Connell St with 6 buses, a few vans and taxi drivers you can

(I) wait for the green light and wait for the ten heavy duty vehicles to take off around you, some will be pulling in 50 yards down the road, you'll be overtaking them into busy traffic.

or

(II) break the red light, (at little risk to pedestrians based on historic statistics of accidents reported) and you are in a completely empty road to the next minute or two.

Nail on the head

Lemming · 21-04-2017 1:47pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I would never break a light in a car, as a cyclist I would break a light in certain circumstances.

RayCun wrote: »

If it is okay to break a red light on a bike when it is safe, why is it not okay to break a red light in a car when it is safe?

I would assume (and hope) that BoardsMember is referring to circumstances that are based on personal safety, not convenience RayCun. Such scenarios would be few and far between. But I shall cite you the Elephant & Castle in London as a glaringly obvious example. Seriously; go look at the cyclist death statistics for that junction over the last three years and why and then climb back into your box.

RayCun · 21-04-2017 1:48pm

V-man wrote: »

"If a cyclist waits for green, and a bus or HGV or car wants to turn left … that’s how most cyclists in London are being killed"

Evidence for this?

I know large vehicles turning left are a major cause of death, but are they killing cyclists who were sitting in front of them at a light, waiting for green, and were run over by a vehicle which took off quicker from the light?

Tombo2001 · 21-04-2017 1:48pm

RayCun wrote: »

You might kill someone, directly or by causing others to crash, you might get killed.
I don't see much difference in the potential consequences.

(yes, yes, I know - the chances of a cyclist going through a red light resulting in someone's death are vanishingly small. Guess what? The chances of a car going through a pedestrian light and causing someone's death, or going through an it-was-amber-a-minute-ago light and causing someone's death, are also vanishingly small. Thousands of cars do it multiple times a day, and rarely do people die as a result. Does that make it okay?)

I would disagree.

I can think in my own area of numerous examples of people being killed by cars as they walked through pedestrian lights.

Lemming · 21-04-2017 1:50pm

RayCun wrote: »

Evidence for this?

I know large vehicles turning left are a major cause of death, but are they killing cyclists who were sitting in front of them at a light, waiting for green, and were run over by a vehicle which took off quicker from the light?

Yes.

RayCun · 21-04-2017 1:51pm

Lemming wrote: »

But I shall cite you the Elephant & Castle in London as a glaringly obvious example. Seriously; go look at the cyclist death statistics for that junction over the last three years and why and then climb back into your box.

That's a roundabout?

magicbastarder · 21-04-2017 1:52pm

RayCun wrote: »

yes, yes, I know - the chances of a cyclist going through a red light resulting in someone's death are vanishingly small. Guess what? The chances of a car going through a pedestrian light and causing someone's death, or going through an it-was-amber-a-minute-ago light and causing someone's death, are also vanishingly small.

that's a false equivalence.
your two 'vanishingly smalls' are markedly different in scale, despite the way you've phrased it.

Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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