Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Igotadose · 25-10-2020 11:04am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes, 100,000 people wearing a masks for a week prevents 5 flu transmissions was one of the stand out points from one of them.

Which one?

Phoebas · 25-10-2020 11:05am

Graham wrote: »

Mike Pence's chief of staff tested positive along with another 150,000 people. in 48 hours.

The evidence is, Trump hasn't a clue how to manage/control/mitigate Coronavirus.

And Mike Pence, the head of the Coronavirus task force, who is a close contact, is not going restrict his movements per normal CDC guidelines, but will continue campaign activities.

drunkmonkey · 25-10-2020 11:05am

Graham wrote: »

Mike Pence's chief of staff tested positive along with another 150,000 people. in 48 hours.

The evidence is, Trump hasn't a clue how to manage/control/mitigate Coronavirus.

What do you do lock down the country, you might get away with it here but not in the states. It'll be interesting to see how Biden manages it, surprised if he has the answer he doesn't do the right thing and come out with his plan now to save lives.

Igotadose · 25-10-2020 11:06am

VinLieger wrote: »

But since there is literally no negative consequences to wearing a mask and proof that they deffinitely give at least minor amount of protection why would you not wear one?

Simples. The person advocating against all evidence to not wear masks, wants more people to die. Makes them fell good that they think by rattling on some web sites they can be responsible for deaths. Trump's pretty much the same way - death is good for him, means more votes, is what he's thinking as he's the strong man who will protect all his sheeple from death (by making sure there are other people to blame for the ones he causes.)

Graham · 25-10-2020 11:06am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just on those points

What ever points you keep making over and over and over again.

Trump's approach to Coronavirus is failing the American people.

Leroy42 · 25-10-2020 11:11am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It tracked 6000 people, half masks half without, it's a decent sample size. There's nothing like it at the moment. Agree with all your points there we can't cite it yet.
Back to my original point, a poster said wearing masks will reduce deaths by X amount, there is also no peer reviewed study to support that stance, it's just an assumption to support a political point of view, it's not based on any real world evidence.

You tried to make out that it was being dismissed.

Are you now agreeing that that isn't the case at all and it just isn't finished the process?

drunkmonkey · 25-10-2020 11:11am

Graham wrote: »

What ever points you keep making over and over and over again.

Trump's approach to Coronavirus is failing the American people.

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

valoren · 25-10-2020 11:13am

A excerpt from a Jim Al-Khalili book is prescient about conspiracy theories as being the polar opposite of scientific theories.

"...(conspiracy theories) seek to assimilate whatever evidence there is against them and interpret it in a way that supports rather than repudiates their core idea thus making them unfalsifiable. Many who hold such views will always try to interpret and favour evidence in a way that confirms their pre-existing hypotheses. This is known as confirmation bias. Often, in the case of ideological beliefs, we also hear the term cognitive dissonance whereby someone will feel genuine mental discomfort when confronted with evidence supporting a view contrary to their own. This potent combination of confirmation bias and the avoidance of cognitive dissonance works to reinforce pre-existing beliefs..so, trying to persuade someone in this frame of mind with scientific evidence can often prove to be a waste of time."

His point is that in the media you can't present "both sides of the argument" only scientific, empirical arguments. Like having a climate change denier on a discussion panel when the consensus among climatologists is that man made climate change is their best guess. So in the case of Mask wearing only peer reviewed and consensus agreed evidence is acceptable and casting doubt on their effectiveness is not scientific and thus currently unacceptable.

Graham · 25-10-2020 11:14am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Thread is about the Trump Presidency, not our approach, not Biden.

The fact is, Trump has failed the American people when you look at Coronavirus.

abff · 25-10-2020 11:15am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you do lock down the country, you might get away with it here but not in the states. It'll be interesting to see how Biden manages it, surprised if he has the answer he doesn't do the right thing and come out with his plan now to save lives.

“Do the right thing”? You’re having a laugh!

If there was a magic bullet, don’t you think somebody, somewhere would have come up with the answer by now. It’s a long, hard slog until an effective vaccine is found and is produced in sufficient quantity.

All that can and should be done in the meantime is to take whatever reasonable measures can be taken to slow down the spread of the virus and then ensure that the vaccine, when and if it becomes available, is made accessible to everyone by ensuring that it is not priced beyond the reach of even those with very limited resources.

If Trump remains in power, the likelihood of either of the above happening seems very remote.

duploelabs · 25-10-2020 11:18am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

If Trump actively wanted to spread the virus, would he have acted any differently?

Graham · 25-10-2020 11:25am

According to Trump, this is what turning the corner looks like.

transylman · 25-10-2020 12:00pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Enforce mask wearing instead of playing down their effectiveness.
Not hold mass gatherings of people with no social distancing and no masks.
Not generally playing down the seriousness of the pandemic at every opportunity.
Much more testing and effective contact tracing.

Trumps handling of this has been a disaster. The fact that he is freely holding large rallies with people tightly grouped together and no masks is just insane to me. Completely and utterly insane.

briany · 25-10-2020 12:10pm

listermint wrote: »

1. America couldn't handle it case in point the tea party movement and it's take over of the Republican party.

2. Donald trump out flanked her by telling lies and playing on insecurities with promised which none of he has fulfilled in his 4 years. He lied people were duped. I suppose the lesson for Hilary is to lie tell every voter a different variant of what they want to hear do none of it rinse and repeat. Also have no morals, there's that.

There'll always be cranks, and although the Tea Party was definitely a sizable contingent of cranks, they weren't necessarily the voice of America or even the Republican party, given how many disaffected Republicans there appears to be right now. Meanwhile, the rest of America could handle Obama so badly that the man got to spend two full terms in office. Furthermore, given how easily Trump crushed every other candidate in the 2016 Republican primary, my suspicion is that voters were dissatisfied with establishment politics more so than the race or gender of the country's politicians. Trump defeated the straight white men in that race almost as easy the other contenders.

Women have held public office at all levels in the USA, up 'til VP and President. If people there can put trust in women to do all those jobs, I don't see why it would be a bridge too far to elect one as president or VP (the latter of which we could be seeing very soon anyway.

weisses · 25-10-2020 12:11pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Acknowledging and dealing with the pandemic the way a president is supposed to do

25-10-2020 12:13pm

Graham wrote: »

According to Trump, this is what turning the corner looks like.

Tbh, it looks like anywhere else in the world

25-10-2020 12:18pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbh, it looks like anywhere else in the world

Not at all, most countries exited the first wave. The US has effectively had a consistently high fatality rate since around June.

Graham · 25-10-2020 12:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh, it looks like anywhere else in the world

Does that look like it's 'turning the corner', like it's almost 'gone away'?

Chips Lovell · 25-10-2020 12:21pm

Mod Note

Mask debates belong in the COVID forum, not here.

Thanks

drunkmonkey · 25-10-2020 1:27pm

weisses wrote: »

Acknowledging and dealing with the pandemic the way a president is supposed to do

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Graham · 25-10-2020 1:53pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus.

its going away
its gone away
it'll be gone by the winter
its going
its gone
we've turned the corner
we're turning the corner

Does that sound like a position of knowledge to you?

Nody · 25-10-2020 2:02pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

But even without that, I don’t even like to talk about that, because it’s fading away, it’s going to fade away, but having a vaccine would be really nice and that’s going to happen.”

“If you don’t test, you don’t have any cases,”

“If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any.”

June 26th wrote:

“Well, I feel about vaccines like I feel about tests. This is going to go away without a vaccine. It’s going to go away, and it’s – we’re not going to see it again, hopefully, after a period of time.”

April 29th wrote:

“It’s going to go away. This is going to go away,”

April 26th wrote:

“I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute,” Trump said in a White House press briefing.

April 6th wrote:

“Stay inside and let’s win this and let’s get our country (back) as soon as we can. I think it’s going to be sooner than people think. Things are going really well,” Trump said.

April 3rd wrote:

“The CDC is advising the use of non-medical cloth face covering as an additional voluntary public health measure. So it’s voluntary. You don’t have to do it. They suggested for a period of time. But this is voluntary. I don’t think I’m going to be doing it,”

March 16th wrote:

“It washes through. Other people don’t like that term. But where it washes through.”

February 26th & 27th wrote:

“We’re very, very ready for this, for anything – whether it’s going to be a breakout of larger proportions or whether or not we’re – you know, we’re at that very low level, and we want to keep it that way,”
“This is a flu. This is like a flu,”

“It’s going to disappear. One day – it’s like a miracle – it will disappear.”

February 25th wrote:

“You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country"

February 10th wrote:

“Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do – you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat – as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape, though,”

“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

February 2nd wrote:

“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China,”

“But we can’t have thousands of people coming in who may have this problem, the coronavirus. We’re going to see what happens, but we did shut it down, yes.”

January 24th wrote:

China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!

January 22nd wrote:

“We have it totally under control,”

“It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

Yup, very consistent and coherent message from the President; no flip flopping, lying or backtracking going on here and all aligned with reality and medical advice. That's sarcasm btw.

Tell me how · 25-10-2020 2:04pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

What?
Why?
How?
Where?
When?

Cody montana · 25-10-2020 2:06pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Inspired a lot of people to catch the coronavirus?

relax carry on · 25-10-2020 2:19pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people,

Inspired them to drink bleach or try to take some variant of Hydroxychloroquine, inspired them to not wear masks, inspired them to take their own Governor hostage etc?

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 2:36pm

Inspirational how? He's not very smart; very rich; very successful (his own is based off his daddy's Manhattan portfolio, his actual ventures often failures); very intellectually curious; very pragmatic; very cunning; very good at leading, the list goes on. In specifics to CoVid, the only inspiration Trump has committed was dangerous "joking" advice or mixed messaging about boilerplate responses to the pandemic.

Trump a spoofer, a gold plated tycoon who presented as the pinnacle of American success. Instead he's merely another trust fund boomer who frittered away his dad's wealth through a series of incompetent ventures. Nevermind the inability to organise a píss up in a brewery, Trump couldn't make money from a casino.

kowloon · 25-10-2020 2:40pm

He inspired a bunch of people to go out and protest in convoys or with their guns and their tacticool gear. Also inspired a few lads to try and kidnap a governor.

extra gravy · 25-10-2020 2:47pm

Trump inspirational haha. Biden overcame a horrific loss that would have destroyed a lot of men and raised two young kids in the aftermath. That's real character and more admirable and inspirational than the amount of dollars Trump does or doesn't have.

Detritus70 · 25-10-2020 3:07pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Acknowledging and dealing with the pandemic the way a president is supposed to do

LuckyLloyd · 25-10-2020 3:12pm

- admit there is a problem
- restore the CDC to its former administrative / budgetary capacity
- put together a plan
- pass a comprehensive stimulus package
- enact plan

That’s what Biden will do differently.

Professor Moriarty · 25-10-2020 3:15pm

Tell me how wrote: »

What?
Why?
How?
Where?
When?

He's inspiring people to vote Democrat.

Thepoet85 · 25-10-2020 3:20pm

drunkmonkey wrote:

If anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people.

I agree fully. More people than ever have gone out and got their votes early. He's inspired a lot of people to use their democratic right and vote him out of office.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-10-2020 3:39pm

relax carry on wrote: »

Inspired them to drink bleach or try to take some variant of Hydroxychloroquine, inspired them to not wear masks, inspired them to take their own Governor hostage etc?

Don't forget that rather than providing federal aid or even standing aside he started a bidding war between the states for ventilators and PPE.

Tell me how · 25-10-2020 4:02pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Don't forget that rather than providing federal aid or even standing aside he started a bidding war between the states for ventilators and PPE.

And hijacked medical supplies destined for other countries.

During the last 4 years, there have been 215 criminal indictments of people connected to his administration, 225K Americans have died from the Coronvirus, the US has engaged in piracy, the US has lost over 500 sets of parents who it separated from their children, it has carried out hysterectomies on immigrants, it has seen unemployment reach its highest level ever, it has alienated NATO, WHO and the UN and regressed in terms of acting to protect the environment.

How is this guy even in the race at this point?

robinph · 25-10-2020 4:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not at all, most countries exited the first wave. The US has effectively had a consistently high fatality rate since around June.

The US didn't really exit the first wave as a whole because by that point it was only just starting to take effect on the half of the country that didn't get hit in March and April.

That second peak is just the first wave in the second half of the country.

fullstop · 25-10-2020 4:19pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Would be very interested to see your workings on this one

US has nearly double the deaths per million that we have, and more than double the cases per million.

Before you spout “you do more testing, you find more cases”, they’re at about 1.25 times the testing rate per capita that we are.

So tell me again how we’re one of the standout cases and Donnie is doing a super duper job.

duploelabs · 25-10-2020 4:23pm

fullstop wrote: »

Would be very interested to see your workings on this one

US has nearly double the deaths per million that we have, and more than double the cases per million.

Before you spout “you do more testing, you find more cases”, they’re at about 1.25 times the testing rate per capita that we are.

So tell me again how we’re one of the standout cases and Donnie is doing a super duper job.

From the same logic tree as 'you can't get pregnant if you don't take a pregnancy test'

drunkmonkey · 25-10-2020 4:48pm

duploelabs wrote: »

From the same logic tree as 'you can't get pregnant if you don't take a pregnancy test'

Tbf, the more people you sleep with the more chance you have of making a baby.
In fairness to Trump he's always wanted to win the testing league and have the most amount of cases.

Igotadose · 25-10-2020 4:51pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Tbf, the more people you sleep with the more chance you have of making a baby.
In fairness to Trump he's always wanted to win the testing league and have the most amount of cases.

Really? Is that why he keeps on about reducing the amount of testing? Because he has. You're talking nonsense, he'd love it if testing ended tomorrow.

VinLieger · 25-10-2020 5:03pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Yup the republican states have really been knocking it out of the park the past 3-4 months

https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1315795353136922626

drunkmonkey · 25-10-2020 5:04pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? Is that why he keeps on about reducing the amount of testing? Because he has. You're talking nonsense, he'd love it if testing ended tomorrow.

Wouldn't we all.

Igotadose · 25-10-2020 5:05pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Wouldn't we all.

So, you are talking nonsense. Thanks for the confirmation.

drunkmonkey · 25-10-2020 5:12pm

Igotadose wrote: »

So, you are talking nonsense. Thanks for the confirmation.

Let's get real here, if you want to reduce deaths worldwide covid-19 isn't the first test you'd roll out to the general population.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-10-2020 5:14pm

robinph wrote: »

The US didn't really exit the first wave as a whole because by that point it was only just starting to take effect on the half of the country that didn't get hit in March and April.

That second peak is just the first wave in the second half of the country.

First peak was April. Second was July. The US is now entering the third.

The graphs by state are instructive for how few aren't increasing.
https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-TRENDS/dgkvlgkrkpb/

Trump knew about Covid in January which means there's been a very long time to listen to advice. But no, he has to get his 2c in regardless of the consequences.

robinph · 25-10-2020 5:32pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

First peak was April. Second was July. The US is now entering the third.

The graphs by state are instructive for how few aren't increasing.
https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-TRENDS/dgkvlgkrkpb/

Trump knew about Covid in January which means there's been a very long time to listen to advice. But no, he has to get his 2c in regardless of the consequences.

That just shows 50 different charts with either a peak 8 months ago and another happening now/ a peak about 4 months ago/ constant rise over the last 8 months.

Only Washington seems to have 3 distinct peaks. The US, as far as determining 1st, 2nd or 3rd wave at this point in time, should be considered 50 separate countries. The US has not had anything like a country wide set of peaks and dips.

salmocab · 25-10-2020 6:17pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Yup the republican states have really been knocking it out of the park the past 3-4 months

https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1315795353136922626

The thing was it was all the Democratic states at the start that were suffering, we kept hearing about the poor job they were doing and it completely ignored that they were in general the most populous places and were always going to be hit harder regardless of who was in charge. The same reason that a lot of the BLM stuff was in democratic controlled place, again we heard it’s because of the leadership in those places and it ignored the fact that the reason they were in these places was that’s where a sizeable number of black people live in close proximity. These places were always going to be the epicentres of both things Because that’s where the people are.

CelticRambler · 25-10-2020 6:18pm

robinph wrote: »

The US, as far as determining 1st, 2nd or 3rd wave at this point in time, should be considered 50 separate countries. The US has not had anything like a country wide set of peaks and dips.

Isn't that essentially what Trump did? He treated the individual states as allies or foes according to the political colour of their governor, allocated resources accordingly, bragged about how well his friends were doing until they weren't doing so well; and most of all, shrugged off his own relevance with a "nothing to do with me, mate."

This last week/ten days has really emphasised how Trump is only role-playing as president, but has no interest in the actual job. Short of funds, he's getting the American taxpayer to fund his ego-boosting "same-old, same-old" rallies, but is cheesed off with the media's constant focus on the pandemic instead of his theatrics.

I know it's falling into the "Toddler-in-Chief" cliché, but ever since he came out of hospital, I can't help but think of him as a three-year-old trying to convince his parents to let him stay up past his usual bedtime. Logically, in this analogy, the next phase will be the Big Sulk before his parents grant him a minor, symbolic victory and he'll go bye-byes exactly when his parents intended.

fullstop · 25-10-2020 7:45pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Tbf, the more people you sleep with the more chance you have of making a baby.
In fairness to Trump he's always wanted to win the testing league and have the most amount of cases.

Any comment on why they’ve double the cases and deaths per capita that we have? What’s the reason for that?

Leroy42 · 25-10-2020 8:07pm

Mark Meadows, CoS, said on Jake Tapper today that they aren't looking to control it. Its all about vaccines.

Also here is Trump basically saying doctors are upping the numbers to make more money.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1320180250920259584?s=09

aloyisious · 26-10-2020 1:10am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In fairness to Trump he's always wanted to win the testing league and have the most amount of cases.

A problem I have with Trump is that he goes on TV regularly commenting about the amount of testing for Covid-19 being done as driving up the figures. Its NOT driving up the figures of those infected. The only thing driving up the figures is the Covid-19 virus. Despite his apparent dislike of the public campaign being run by his own V/P against the virus, he didn't put his dislike of testing into personal practice when it came his being hit by the virus. He hasn't gone running to the Pharma Co's complaining about them making test kits instead of centering all their activity on finding an anti-viral cure.

To me the increase in figures of people tested is good as it means the medics are actively trying to find out who has been infected by the covid-19 strain so: A, they can be helped get better. B, they can be isolated to stop transmission of the virus. and C. the true extent of the virus mobility can be made known to those who have a duty to stop it ravaging the population.

HTF are you supposed to know who has been hit by the virus except by testing people for it?

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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