Churchlands Delgany Development

awec · 20-03-2020 10:49am

2011 wrote: »

There are very few places with no management fees, especially around Greystones.

I think most of the new estates don't have them?

No fees in Waverley or Seagreen anyway. Don't think Glenheron has fees either?

20-03-2020 11:21am

awec wrote: »

I think most of the new estates don't have them?

I think most have them.

No fees in Waverley or Seagreen anyway. Don't think Glenheron has fees either?

We never had a management company appointed in our estate. The result is that we (residents) had to organize tasks grass cutting of common areas ourselves. The council simply don’t take estates over anymore. The result is that it costs each household €50 annually to pay a private company to look after these tasks as well as insurance cover. However around 10% of households refuse to pay even by standing order per month (less than €4.20 a month). If we don’t pay someone to come it the estate would become very overgrown quite quickly. My point is that one way or another most people have to contribute something towards the upkeep.

loyatemu · 20-03-2020 12:18pm

2011 wrote: »

I think most have them.

We never had a management company appointed in our estate. The result is that we (residents) had to organize tasks grass cutting of common areas ourselves. The council simply don’t take estates over anymore. The result is that it costs each household €50 annually to pay a private company to look after these tasks as well as insurance cover. However around 10% of households refuse to pay even by standing order per month (less than €4.20 a month). If we don’t pay someone to come it the estate would become very overgrown quite quickly. My point is that one way or another most people have to contribute something towards the upkeep.

I'm in a 1970s estate, we also have to pay to get the grass cut. I think the council do it once a year.

JustAThought · 20-03-2020 12:22pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm in a 1970s estate, we also have to pay to get the grass cut. I think the council do it once a year.

Maybe its a residents committee? Councils don’t typically ever charge. Management comapanies are a financial black hole, unregulated by law and a law onto themselves - a total nightmare, particularly when any problem arises.Avoid like the plague.

20-03-2020 12:30pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm in a 1970s estate, we also have to pay to get the grass cut. I think the council do it once a year.

Only older estates are looked after by the council, lucky you.

The estate next to mine have been trying for over 30 years to get the council to take them on without success. They have around a 20 year head start on our estate so I won’t hold my breath.

20-03-2020 12:40pm

I think the more important point is that house prices are likely to collapse so many of the planned housing estates may be delayed indefinitely.

awec · 20-03-2020 12:45pm

That depends really. There's still a shortage of housing, and the number of sales is likely to grind to a halt. House prices will probably go down, but collapse I am not sure.

Do think there'll be a pause button pressed on new developments that are not already committed.

Creamy Goodness · 20-03-2020 12:50pm

Do we think they will, collapse that is? The people who are able to buy these houses at these prices are households pulling in north of 125k. A lot of the households earning that sort of money are still in jobs (IT/Medical etc.).

I'm sure there will be some sort of slow down (third and subsequent phases being postponed) but I think it'll be over 12-18 months.

20-03-2020 1:19pm

awec wrote: »

That depends really. There's still a shortage of housing, and the number of sales is likely to grind to a halt. House prices will probably go down, but collapse I am not sure.

Yes you are probably right. But reduced prices means reduced margins and property developers don’t care about the housing crises. They only care about profits.

Do think there'll be a pause button pressed on new developments that are not already committed.

I think so, yes.

I work for an engineering consultancy, many of the sites we have projects on have shut down.

20-03-2020 1:26pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Do we think they will, collapse that is? The people who are able to buy these houses at these prices are households pulling in north of 125k.

You mean they were pulling north of €125k. I know a few people on this sort of salary that have just been let go and I’m sure there are many more. Besides even those that keep their job and don’t suffer from a pay cut will be reluctant to pay higher prices when the average market prices have dropped.

A lot of the households earning that sort of money are still in jobs (IT/Medical etc.).

Yes but a lot work in industry sectors that have been decimated or are about to be.

What do you think the budget will do to those of us that are lucky enough to hold onto our jobs?
I would expect a hefty increase in income tax (perhaps I'm a cynic, but someone has to plug the hole in the finances). This means less take home pay which translates to a reduced ability to draw down a larger mortgage.

I'm sure there will be some sort of slow down (third and subsequent phases being postponed) but I think it'll be over 12-18 months.

I’m sure there will be a reduction in the buy to rent market following the government’s latest statement on a 3 month rent moratorium for a start.

loyatemu · 20-03-2020 1:49pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Maybe its a residents committee? Councils don’t typically ever charge. Management comapanies are a financial black hole, unregulated by law and a law onto themselves - a total nightmare, particularly when any problem arises.Avoid like the plague.

Yeah it is a residents committee - my point was that the estate has been taken over by the council but they still don't cut the grass (except for once a year).

jpd · 20-03-2020 7:40pm

But that's minor expense - the real expense would be re-furbishing the roads and services

If the residents can't be bothered to cut the grass themselves or to pay a modest annual charge to have it done by a 3rd party - sorry, I do not have any sympathy

cunnifferous · 21-03-2020 3:58pm

randypriest wrote: »

It looks like the global and domestic economies will crash and crash very badly because of COVID19.

What do we think this will mean for the Greystones / Delgany property market? In particular, Churchlands and Eastmount?

In my own view, the Churchlands / Eastmount prices were way overvalued to start and those who bought in the first phase will have overpaid a significant amount when subsequent phases are launched.

I think Churchlands less so. 1st phase was 435k which wasn't a bargain by any means but I think was more fair. It also had a semi-converted attic which meant you could increase the floor space if needed relatively inexpensively.

Eastmount on the other hand had totally jumped the shark. 485k for a 3bed semi d far out from Delgany and Greystones town. Madness

I think Greystones certainly had started to reflect to the kind of madness and hand over fist greed that tends to happen at the top of a boom. Any kind of rational or objective valuations go out the window and EAs just start to think that prices will exponentially grow into infinity. Case in point being a 3 bed in Glenheron up for sale, second hand, for 25k more than the brand new identical houses that are still being sold by the developer! That's not even taking into account the HTB increasing the differential for first time buyers.

sineadmur · 21-03-2020 4:48pm

cunnifferous wrote: »

"I think Churchlands less so. 1st phase was 435k which wasn't a bargain by any means but I think was more fair. It also had a semi-converted attic which meant you could increase the floor space if needed relatively inexpensively."

I agree with Churchlands. Myself and my partner have been saving for years for a mortgage and can just about afford Churchlands at 435k, but that is the maximum. Definitely cannot afford more than that and we are hoping to avail of Help to Buy so a new house is preferable. I really hope they do a second phase, and the prices stay at 435 or even go down with Covid (perhaps wishful thinking). If prices go up, I won't be buying in Greystones.

"Eastmount on the other hand had totally jumped the shark. 485k for a 3bed semi d far out from Delgany and Greystones town. Madness"

Also agree with this. I was shocked when Eastmount released their prices. half a million for a semi-d not close to any amenities is outrageous in my opinion. Shortly after Eastmount released their prices, Churchlands changed theirs to "price on application"...

P.S. I don't know how to work replying to quotes on this.

Fastnet2020 · 23-03-2020 11:56am

Anyone else have a call from Sherry Fitz last week? I did. And basically cut to the chase to ask me what my occupation was and that of my husband and whether we were secure. Apparently, site on schedule to complete in August and they'd hate to think amidst the crisis that anyone would miss out on their "dream home" that phone call stuck with me all weekend ðŸ˜

23-03-2020 1:39pm

Fastnet2020 wrote: »

Anyone else have a call from Sherry Fitz last week? I did. And basically cut to the chase to ask me what my occupation was and that of my husband and whether we were secure.

Clearly this is because potential buyers are dropping like flies and they need to know how many sales have been lost. Anyone that does not expect this to have an impact on price is deluded in my opinion. Estate agent on Newstalk this am admitted that he would not put his house on the market at the moment.

Apparently, site on schedule to complete in August and they'd hate to think amidst the crisis that anyone would miss out on their "dream home" that phone call stuck with me all weekend

I wonder if this is a case of “Nothing to see here folks. Everything is fine. Please ignore any concerns you may have as we rearrange the furniture on the Titanic. Please don’t try to negotiate a price reduction whatever you do” ???

awec · 23-03-2020 1:48pm

2011 wrote: »

Clearly this is because potential buyers are dropping like flies and they need to know how many sales have been lost. Anyone that does not expect this to have an impact on price is deluded in my opinion. Estate agent on Newstalk this am admitted that he would not put his house on the market at the moment.

In other words “Nothing to see here folks. Everything is fine. Please ignore any concerns you may have as we rearrange the furniture on the Titanic. Please don’t try to negotiate a price reduction whatever you do”.

Unless people got the subject to loan clause inserted into contracts then anyone who has signed and paid deposits is not in a place to negotiate a reduction in price.

It will definitely have an impact on price. Nobody knows how much though, or how long it will take. The EA comment is interesting. If that sentiment is widely shared it, then a drop in supply of second hand homes plus a presumably drop in supply of new homes is going to limit any price drops.

23-03-2020 2:07pm

awec wrote: »

Unless people got the subject to loan clause inserted into contracts then anyone who has signed and paid deposits is not in a place to negotiate a reduction in price.

There are 2 things to consider:

1) How easily can an individual that has committed to buy get out of the agreement. This will depend largely on whether they have signed a contract, paid a deposit, the terms and conditions of the contract.

2) If a person that committed to buy can still proceed (even if they want to). Their circumstances may have changed dramatically.

Fastnet2020 wrote: »

Apparently, site on schedule to complete in August

I simply don't believe this statement at all. I have wired a lot of houses (I'm an electrician by trade) so I have the benefit of experience. It is not uncommon for different trades to be working all over each other like ants. Carpenters, block layers, tilers, plasterers, electricians, window fitters, roofers, painters and many others all have to work on each home. How can workers possibly be expected to socially distance themselves from others and still keep to the same schedules? Even in "normal times" schedules frequently slip by months from what is advertised. I think the promise to stuck to the schedule is a desperate attempt to keep buyers on board.

rodrigo_santos · 24-03-2020 1:25am

Fastnet2020 wrote: »

Anyone else have a call from Sherry Fitz last week? I did. And basically cut to the chase to ask me what my occupation was and that of my husband and whether we were secure. Apparently, site on schedule to complete in August and they'd hate to think amidst the crisis that anyone would miss out on their "dream home" that phone call stuck with me all weekend ðŸ˜

Also got a call from them asking same things but they said 3 beds terrace/belmont would be postponed for Jan 21.

Cluster · 24-03-2020 9:18am

Fastnet2020 wrote: »

Anyone else have a call from Sherry Fitz last week? I did. And basically cut to the chase to ask me what my occupation was and that of my husband and whether we were secure. Apparently, site on schedule to complete in August and they'd hate to think amidst the crisis that anyone would miss out on their "dream home" that phone call stuck with me all weekend ��

No way, yes, the exact same but Im buyng in Seagreen. Even though Im buying off the plans, still havent actually received the plans. Dodgy

24-03-2020 11:39am

rodrigo_santos wrote: »

Also got a call from them asking same things but they said 3 beds terrace/belmont would be postponed for Jan 21.

When were they meant to be ready?

meallat · 24-03-2020 1:55pm

Cluster wrote: »

No way, yes, the exact same but Im buyng in Seagreen. Even though Im buying off the plans, still havent actually received the plans. Dodgy

Are you getting a discount for buying off plans? .. with no plans?

REFLINE1 · 24-03-2020 2:17pm

Cluster wrote: »

No way, yes, the exact same but Im buyng in Seagreen. Even though Im buying off the plans, still havent actually received the plans. Dodgy

what do you mean? Assume your buying a house per the showhouse viewed and the floor plans are displayed in the brochure surely? what are you expecting a set of architect blueprints?

24-03-2020 2:49pm

REFLINE1 wrote: »

what do you mean? Assume your buying a house per the showhouse viewed and the floor plans are displayed in the brochure surely? what are you expecting a set of architect blueprints?

Assume nothing!

Floor plans may vary from phase to phase of a development.
I certainly wouldn’t commit to a mortgage based entirely on a non legally binding brochure.

awec · 24-03-2020 2:55pm

2011 wrote: »

Assume nothing!

Floor plans may vary from phase to phase of a development.
I certainly wouldn’t commit to a mortgage based entirely on a non legally binding brochure.

This is not how the real world works.

You go to the showhouse, you like the showhouse, you agree to buy a house that will be the same as the showhouse. You will never get detailed plans, there is no point in it. Are you going to go in every day personally and ensure the house matches the spec exactly? If the house is materially different to what you agreed to buy you'll have an out via the contract.

The fact is it is nigh on impossible to make two houses exactly the same. Giving everyone the detailed plans means you'll be dealing with time wasters who complain that their living room wall is only 219cm long when the plans said it was supposed to be 220.

24-03-2020 4:36pm

awec wrote: »

You go to the showhouse, you like the showhouse, you agree to buy a house that will be the same as the showhouse.

Yes, but as we both know there is more to it than a verbal agreement that states "your house will be very like this".

You will never get detailed plans

Well actually sometimes you do, but I agree that this is frequently not the case. Nobody said "detailed plans", all that was mentioned was "floor plans".

there is no point in it.

If detailed plans are offered there is a lot to be gained from having them. These have to be generated to build the house anyway so it is not as though they do not already exist.

I got plans for my home that were far from detailed, but they provided sufficient details to meet my needs.

Are you going to go in every day personally and ensure the house matches the spec exactly?

Nobody mentioned an "exact spec" match either!

"In the real world" there has to be something in writing that indicates some correlation between what is shown to prospective buyers and what is actually built.

Giving everyone the detailed plans means you'll be dealing with time wasters who complain that their living room wall is only 219cm long when the plans said it was supposed to be 220.

It is important to get whatever information you can in writing (documents and / or drawings).

My sister purchased a ground floor duplex apartment in the first phase of Charlesland off the plans. The square footage was agreed, however when she was provided with the floor plans it turned out that the builder had included the decking outside as part of the internal square footage. This was hardly a small oversight!

The fact is it is nigh on impossible to make two houses exactly the same

Nobody said they were looking for this.
However in my opinion near identical homes are build all of the time.

REFLINE1 · 24-03-2020 4:38pm

awec wrote: »

This is not how the real world works.

You go to the showhouse, you like the showhouse, you agree to buy a house that will be the same as the showhouse. You will never get detailed plans, there is no point in it. Are you going to go in every day personally and ensure the house matches the spec exactly? If the house is materially different to what you agreed to buy you'll have an out via the contract.

The fact is it is nigh on impossible to make two houses exactly the same. Giving everyone the detailed plans means you'll be dealing with time wasters who complain that their living room wall is only 219cm long when the plans said it was supposed to be 220.

This is the norm.

meallat · 24-03-2020 10:57pm

Do we think phase 2 will be completed in the current climate?

Rockford1 · 24-03-2020 11:09pm

Considering they have started building phase two already, I would think you’re safe enough. Incredible amount of barstool nonsense on this thread of late. I would ignore 80% of it.

Cluster · 25-03-2020 8:55am

Well, We decided on a house already but we pulled out because of information we were given by the EA and builder were incorrect. We picked a new location. When we saw the original build it had a feature that wasnt in the brochure. The reason I wanted the plans was to see front and back (I didnt think this would be a big deal if, funnily enough, you were buying off the 'plans')

People are going to spend a sum of money like never before in their lives, If you think they are wasters because of it, happy to be called one. I have zero trust in the builder and EA as a result. I'm watching them like a hawk now.

I deal with architects everyday in another field other than housing, its very common for me to ask for drawings.

Cerco · 25-03-2020 9:09am

Two reports in Irish Times today relevant to prospective purchasers.

1. House prices could drop by up to 20%

2. Not all builders unions agree with construction projects continuing during virus.

I will try to copy links

Cerco · 25-03-2020 9:14am

Stocks indicate new house prices could fall up to 20%

https://www.e-pages.dk/irishtimes/2063/article/1109069/14/4/render/?token=a7e68a5263bbefbb72cce3036a7f6493

Construction unions split over decision to allow sites to remain open

https://www.e-pages.dk/irishtimes/2063/article/1109069/3/2/render/?token=52f06b61f67f456dce25d474a62285bf

25-03-2020 10:59am

Cluster wrote: »

The reason I wanted the plans was to see front and back (I didnt think this would be a big deal if, funnily enough, you were buying off the 'plans')

I’n an engineer as such I am used to requesting drawings and working off them. This doesn’t suit developers/ builders as these documents can be used to hold them to account. As it has been a sellers market I feel that the general public has been conditioned by developers in to believing that it is somehow acceptable not to get any plans. IMHO this is unacceptable.

Cluster · 25-03-2020 11:31am

2011 wrote: »

I’n an engineer as such I am used to requesting drawings and working off them. This doesn’t suit developers/ builders as these documents can be used to hold them to account. As it has been a sellers market I feel that the general public has been conditioned by developers in to believing that it is somehow acceptable not to get any plans. IMHO this is unacceptable.

Totally agree.

awec · 25-03-2020 11:34am

Cluster wrote: »

Well, We decided on a house already but we pulled out because of information we were given by the EA and builder were incorrect. We picked a new location. When we saw the original build it had a feature that wasnt in the brochure. The reason I wanted the plans was to see front and back (I didnt think this would be a big deal if, funnily enough, you were buying off the 'plans')

People are going to spend a sum of money like never before in their lives, If you think they are wasters because of it, happy to be called one. I have zero trust in the builder and EA as a result. I'm watching them like a hawk now.

I deal with architects everyday in another field other than housing, its very common for me to ask for drawings.

What was the feature, out of curiosity?

25-03-2020 8:27pm

Cerco wrote: »

Two reports in Irish Times today relevant to prospective purchasers.

1. House prices could drop by up to 20%

Yes, see link.

Any of us that have gone through the pain of saving for a deposit know how significant a 10% price reduction would be, never mind 20%

Cluster · 25-03-2020 10:49pm

awec wrote: »

What was the feature, out of curiosity?

The House wasnt level with the path outside the house, by a distance.

awec · 25-03-2020 11:05pm

Cluster wrote: »

The House wasnt level with the path outside the house, by a distance.

Steps?

I'm surprised they didn't tell you cause Seagreen has loads of houses like that and the steps are always on the brochure drawings / site layout plans.

Cluster · 26-03-2020 9:11am

awec wrote: »

Steps?

I'm surprised they didn't tell you cause Seagreen has loads of houses like that and the steps are always on the brochure drawings / site layout plans.

I have a brochure, there is a marketing site plan in it and thats the old one, new ones dont have even that in it. I too was surprised because I asked how they were going to level the garden with front and back........nothing. Then I saw how when I went up and checked the build.

I think whats missing there is just a bit of honesty with people.

JustAThought · 26-03-2020 5:47pm

In a totally different location I was looking at an apartment in a complex overlooking the sea - beautiful area - I asked about the site plans and elevation and was fudged off - I withdrew - later when they were building them they had staggered and the ones I were looking at had had the hill they were leveled - instead of being elevated they were stacked behind on the flat and were now lower and directly behind the first block - no sea view and views into the appartment in front. Both ruined for light, views and privacy.

When I finally bought a house off the plans the dimensions were still aproximate - I had to go to the planning office to get them. Spend half a million euro and you have to fight to know what you are getting - unbelievable.

Government Quangos everywhere - all impotent and utterly useless.

Creamy Goodness · 26-03-2020 6:01pm

If it's in Wicklow you don't need to head to the planning office, it's all uploaded online even objection letters. I find it great for finding out who the NIMBY's are in neighbouring estates.

rodrigo_santos · 26-03-2020 8:38pm

2011 wrote: »

When were they meant to be ready?

Sept this year.

01-04-2020 9:32am

rodrigo_santos wrote: »

Also got a call from them asking same things but they said 3 beds terrace/belmont would be postponed for Jan 21.

The longer this situation persists the more the revised date is likely to slip.

However from a financial perspective this may work to your advantage as prices may have fallen even further by then.

meallat · 01-04-2020 10:45am

2011 wrote: »

The longer this situation persists the more the revised date is likely to slip.

However from a financial perspective this may work to your advantage as prices may have fallen even further by then.

Wonder if that applies also to the 4 bed semis ... so frustrating!

01-04-2020 12:38pm

meallat wrote: »

Wonder if that applies also to the 4 bed semis ... so frustrating!

Everything is up in the air. Many building contractors and trade contractors will go bust. Expect delays on all building works of indefinite duration. I would also suspect that some developers may hold off on building phases that were previously planned as they are not as lucrative as previously thought.

Fastnet2020 · 11-04-2020 5:03pm

Contractually the developers have a very long time to complete the works, does that mean they can hang onto deposits until then as well?

11-04-2020 6:06pm

Fastnet2020 wrote: »

Contractually the developers have a very long time to complete the works, does that mean they can hang onto deposits until then as well?

Not my area at all but my guess would be that this would depend on the terms of the contract.

26-04-2020 5:36pm

An interesting article in the indo: Banks are tightening the criteria for mortgages over fears of sharp house price falls.....

I wonder how this will impact the prices and schedule of the Churchlands development?

Rockford1 · 27-04-2020 12:57pm

In response to the above...

This was explained to me by our Financial Planner... lenders have temporarily frozen exceptions due to non-exception cases now falling into the exception category as a result of income losses/reductions. In turn, this could affect many applicants who are looking to drawdown in the coming weeks/months. An applicant who has signed contracts/has a loan offer that is not planning on drawing down until late 2020, is in a stronger position as the likelihood is that exceptions will be back by then. Applicants who cannot obtain the required mortgage at the time of drawdown may be in trouble if the bank cannot facilitate them. Loan approval clause in the signed contract is very important in this instance. In the event of the purchaser possibly having to walk away from the sale, should the agent not have a backup purchaser, I would envisage a negotiation may be on the table. However, if there is demand this is highly unlikely. The builders margins are surprisingly low and any reduction in price will be significant.

27-04-2020 1:46pm

Rockford1 wrote: »

lenders have temporarily frozen exceptions due to non-exception cases now falling into the exception category as a result of income losses/reductions

....in addition to “fears over sharp house price falls” (according to the article linked to in the above post).

Churchlands Delgany Development

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