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Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)
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How is this in any way comparable or related? It was for a TV show, the women agreed to it, they weren't actually feeling his genitals, it was filmed, it was in public...
I genuinely don't get what point you're trying to make.
He said to one of the women: "Maybe it would be easier if you put your mouth on it".
If there was a clip of Harvey saying that to a woman on the street, you'd all be saying how gross and creepy it was.
Clean cut Jimmy says it though and it's all fun and games.0 -
Outlaw Pete wrote: »He said to one of the women: "Maybe it would be easier if you put your mouth on it".
If there was a clip of Harvey saying that to a woman on the street, you'd all be saying how gross and creepy it was.
Clean cut Jimmy says it though and it's all fun and games.
Was it part of a skit in The Man Show though?0 -
Outlaw Pete wrote: »He said to one of the women: "Maybe it would be easier if you put your mouth on it".
If there was a clip of Harvey saying that to a woman on the street, you'd all be saying how gross and creepy it was.
Clean cut Jimmy says it though and it's all fun and games.
Really? That's your point?
Again, they knew it was part of a TV show, being filmed, wasn't really his genitals, they agreed to it in advance and they weren't in any danger. Saying "Maybe it would be easier if you put your mouth on it" and everything else he said were jokes/innuendo based on what they were doing to make light of it, because again, it was for a comedy show. It was almost literally "all fun and games".
If it was a clip of Harvey or Clean Cut Jimmy himself going up to and saying that to a random woman on the street, apropos of nothing, caught on camera by someone else and not being filmed for a TV show, and not for any reason than his own sexual pleasure, then yeah, I'd be saying how gross and creepy it was.0 -
Really? That's your point?
Again, they knew it was part of a TV show, being filmed, wasn't really his genitals, they agreed to it in advance and they weren't in any danger. Saying "Maybe it would be easier if you put your mouth on it" and everything else he said were jokes/innuendo based on what they were doing to make light of it, because again, it was for a comedy show. It was almost literally "all fun and games".
If it was a clip of Harvey or Clean Cut Jimmy himself going up to and saying that to a random woman on the street, apropos of nothing, caught on camera by someone else and not being filmed for a TV show, and not for any reason than his own sexual pleasure, then yeah, I'd be saying how gross and creepy it was.
I highly doubt she was told that Jimmy was going to suggest she tried using her mouth and I didn't just randomly post the clip by the way either, as three of the five posts before mine were discussing Kimmel hosting the Oscars. That's why I posted it at that time.
Anyway, weren't you the one that posted a clearly preplanned boob grab from Bundesvision Song Contest? Hell, even if we allow for naivety thinking it real, how does a boob grab between TV hosts (that's also being recorded) compare to women saying they were raped by Harvey Weinstein? It doesn't.
Not that I care what you post but don't come the thread gatekeeper with me when you're not exactly posting precisely what compares to the alleged crimes yourself.0 -
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It shows they powerful people create a structure where they're untouchable. It didn't matter if you were a celebrities daughter or a nobody, Weinstein could and would happily ruin lives. Honestly, your rhetoric is no different to what I heard people say about Savile victims. Attacking the victims of crimes by an incredibly powerful individual.A Little Pony wrote: »Speaking out now, yes which is a waste of time. He has been at it for years, decades probably when they all knew what was going on. Don't tell me people in Hollywood didn't know, they knew rightly and they closed ranks to protect the little elite club they have.
If you are willing to sell yourself out for money then I have absolutely no sympathy for any of them, if you are willing to be abused and used like a toy then you won't be getting my sympathy when you have a mouth you can use to speak out and stand up for yourself.
Hollywood has known he is a freak for years and no one spoke out about it until now, don't tell me multiple people didn't have similar experiences years ago too. People speak out far too late, the damage has already been done, so much so that Saville got away with his crimes as he had died.
If all you are telling me is these people are only interested in money and profit and protecting themselves in that elite club, then as I said don't expect much sympathy from people, I can only laugh at pathetic people like Meryl Streep who is such a moralist and yet applauded Polanski who committed rape on a 13 year old and did it KNOWING those facts.
All it tells me is Hollywood has no morals, it is full of scumbags who are willing to literally bend over backwards and take it up the ass in order to enrich themselves, no principles, no morality, no convictions in any of these so called feminist beliefs many of the leading Hollywood women talk about.0 -
Strangely enough, sexual assault is actually pretty similar to sexual assault. The Italian woman who wore a wire went to the NYPD quite literally for the reason of Weinstein grabbing her boob.Outlaw Pete wrote: »Anyway, weren't you the one that posted a clearly preplanned boob grab from Bundesvision Song Contest? Hell, even if we allow for naivety thinking it real, how does a boob grab between TV hosts (that's also being recorded) compare to women saying they were raped by Harvey Weinstein? It doesn't.0 -
silverharp wrote: »Ive seen it referenced to an alleged "casting couch" situation, someone above mentioned another actor so may not have been a producer, dunno in fairness
A very famous actor. Oscar winning in fact.0 -
Ulysses Gaze wrote: »A very famous actor. Oscar winning in fact.
Any more hints? Or a pm, cos I’m nosey yet clueless0 -
Apart from from Lindsay Lohan, Weinstein is not getting a lot of support. Not many trying to see the other side here, or show some compassion.
The 'free' world has become very strict in what one is permitted to accept. Very little balanced debate on this topic to be found anywhere.0 -
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Outlaw Pete wrote: »I highly doubt she was told that Jimmy was going to suggest she tried using her mouth and I didn't just randomly post the clip by the way either, as three of the five posts before mine were discussing Kimmel hosting the Oscars. That's why I posted it at that time.
Anyway, weren't you the one that posted a clearly preplanned boob grab from Bundesvision Song Contest? Hell, even if we allow for naivety thinking it real, how does a boob grab between TV hosts (that's also being recorded) compare to women saying they were raped by Harvey Weinstein? It doesn't.
Not that I care what you post but don't come the thread gatekeeper with me when you're not exactly posting precisely what compares to the alleged crimes yourself.
When I asked what relevance the clip of Jimmy had or what point you were trying to make, you directly tried to compare what Jimmy did in that clip to what Weinstein has doneOutlaw Pete wrote: »He said to one of the women: "Maybe it would be easier if you put your mouth on it".
If there was a clip of Harvey saying that to a woman on the street, you'd all be saying how gross and creepy it was.
Clean cut Jimmy says it though and it's all fun and games.
So yeah, I was pointing out it's not comparable. Because it's not.0 -
The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »Apart from from Lindsay Lohan, Weinstein is not getting a lot of support. Not many trying to see the other side here, or show some compassion.
The 'free' world has become very strict in what one is permitted to accept. Very little balanced debate on this topic to be found anywhere.
What's there to defend? He has admitted to assaulting woman and engaging in extremely inappropriate behaviour, why would anyone want to defend that?0 -
The fact that one of the most powerful people in Hollywood can't find anyone to defend him speaks volumes, don't you think?The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »Apart from from Lindsay Lohan, Weinstein is not getting a lot of support. Not many trying to see the other side here, or show some compassion.
The 'free' world has become very strict in what one is permitted to accept. Very little balanced debate on this topic to be found anywhere.
I don't find sexual assault acceptable myself, I'm hoping you don't either, but that's what Weinstein did - he's even on tape saying as much (and not as a public admission/apology/etc, but only because the woman he groped was wearing a wire).0 -
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Strangely enough, sexual assault is actually pretty similar to sexual assault.
Again: I wasn't posting the Jimmy Kimmel clip to compare to what Harvey has done. As I expect nor was whoever posted the clip of Affleck. I posted it as people were discussing Jimmy hosting the Oscars and well, there he is being sleazy, so not the best choice I'm thinking. Quit reading something into the posting of it that wasn't intended. Cheers.The Italian woman who wore a wire went to the NYPD quite literally for the reason of Weinstein grabbing her boob.
Well, look, I give credence to most of the women's stories I have heard so far (that allege Harvey has mistreated them in one way or another) but that Italian, Ambra Battilana (or whatever she is calling herself today) to which you refer, I don't. She comes across to me as a serial victim given that she has history of accusing older rich men of sexually assaulting her.
I have listened to the tape by the way and while Harvey does admit touching her breast, we do not know in what context that occurred. Might very well have been an assault, if I had to bet, I'd say it was but it could also have happened in a more nefarious context entirely. Simply put: her credibility is lacking.Model who says Harvey Weinstein groped her in his NYC office also accused her wealthy 70-year-old former lover of rape in Italy
A model who accused Harvey Weinstein of groping her breasts and putting his hand up her skirt previously alleged to Italian police that her 70-year-old boyfriend had raped her.
Italian newspapers in 2012 reported that Ambra Battilana made a rape complaint against a 70-year-old car dealer ex-boyfriend when she was under 18. The case was dismissed after she never showed up to talk to prosecutors about the allegations
In 2012, the Alba prosecutor told Italian newspaper, Corriere della Sera, that Miss Battilana never showed up to talk to them about her police complaint so they were unable verify her claims.
Miss Battilana met the wealthy, car dealer in September 2009 when she was under 18 and therefore below the age of consent for prostitution in Italy, according to Italian newspaper reports.
The Italian newspaper, Il Giornale, quoted from her 2010 police statement, where she recalled meeting the businessman at an organized dinner.
The statement read: 'He invited me to ride in his car. Upset by the invitation because of my inexperience and very young age, he induced me to accept out of politeness.
'To my enormous embarrassment he began to ask me questions about my sexual preferences and to tell me about his erotic fantasies.
'Then as he started to caress my hand and left leg, he proposed that I become his "playmate" and before I could oppose he gave me a bag with €2,000. He assured me that it was only an advance of the €5,000 he would give me every month.'
She added: 'Despite the indecency of the proposal, both because of my psychological subjection in which I found myself and because of the severe poverty of my family I felt forced against my will not to refuse the money.
'From that time on he began to demand sexual relations in compensation for the cash which happened once a week. I did not have the strength to get out of the vicious circle.'
According to reports in Il Giornale, Miss Battilana's statement continued that a few days later 'the businessman took me to an apartment in his possession... under his domination, I went in'.
She told the police that the businessman began to 'to violate my every wish'.
Afterwards, she received €2,000. Ten days later, the same thing happened and she received another €2,000 and the relationship continued in this manner.
She said: 'With the money received I helped my mother and bought designer clothes, bags, shoes, furs, jewelry and more.'
At Christmas, the 70-year-old spent €5000 on her at a large clothing store.
'I continued to feel uncomfortable about the situation', she said. But she got an apartment in the city center in which everything was paid for with the businessman's money, Il Giornale claimed.
She said in her statement that she suffered the 'commodification of my person' and became 'aware of being used by a man who treated me like a prostitute'.
No doubt there will be sneers about using the DM as a source for the above but the only other link was to an Italian site (Ilgiornale.it).
Thankfully though, her story looks like it won't be all that necessary in order for Harvey to get his comeuppance, as there are women with much more credibility than her that have given their accounts of how he has mistreated them. Particularly, Mira.0 -
What's there to defend? He has admitted to assaulting woman and engaging in extremely inappropriate behaviour, why would anyone want to defend that?
I think 'defend' would already also itself be prejudice.
I mean consider the matter in a balanced and objective way, and not just an uncritical jump on the bandwagon of condemnation.
He may indeed deserve criticism, but I see no rational discussion of what appropriate behaviour really is, whether everyone is obliged to conform to what the majority determine is appropriate, or a deeper consideration of human nature.0 -
The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »I think 'defend' would already also itself be prejudice.
I mean consider the matter in a balanced and objective way, and not just an uncritical jump on the bandwagon of condemnation.
He may indeed deserve criticism, but I see no rational discussion of what appropriate behaviour really is, whether everyone is obliged to conform to what the majority determine is appropriate, or a deeper consideration of human nature.
Sounds like you need a good long spell in a Turkish prison. Do wonders for fixing that malfunctioning moral compass you have there.0 -
When I asked what relevance the clip of Jimmy had or what point you were trying to make, you directly tried to compare what Jimmy did in that clip to what Weinstein has done
So yeah, I was pointing out it's not comparable. Because it's not.
So, saying to you that you'd be complaining if there was a clip of Harvey doing what Jimmy did in that clip....... equates to me having "directly tried to compare what Jimmy did in that clip to what Weinstein has done"???
lol. Yeah, great logic there, Penn. :P0 -
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Complete nonsense. They are not untouchable, that is just an excuse. These people need to be called out, not protected and people putting wealth before morality does not do it. Again I do not believe for years that no one else in Hollywood knew what this guy was doing outside of his victims. Plenty of them knew.pitifulgod wrote: »
It shows they powerful people create a structure where they're untouchable. It didn't matter if you were a celebrities daughter or a nobody, Weinstein could and would happily ruin lives. Honestly, your rhetoric is no different to what I heard people say about Savile victims. Attacking the victims of crimes by an incredibly powerful individual.A Little Pony wrote: »Speaking out now, yes which is a waste of time. He has been at it for years, decades probably when they all knew what was going on. Don't tell me people in Hollywood didn't know, they knew rightly and they closed ranks to protect the little elite club they have.
If you are willing to sell yourself out for money then I have absolutely no sympathy for any of them, if you are willing to be abused and used like a toy then you won't be getting my sympathy when you have a mouth you can use to speak out and stand up for yourself.
Hollywood has known he is a freak for years and no one spoke out about it until now, don't tell me multiple people didn't have similar experiences years ago too. People speak out far too late, the damage has already been done, so much so that Saville got away with his crimes as he had died.
If all you are telling me is these people are only interested in money and profit and protecting themselves in that elite club, then as I said don't expect much sympathy from people, I can only laugh at pathetic people like Meryl Streep who is such a moralist and yet applauded Polanski who committed rape on a 13 year old and did it KNOWING those facts.
All it tells me is Hollywood has no morals, it is full of scumbags who are willing to literally bend over backwards and take it up the ass in order to enrich themselves, no principles, no morality, no convictions in any of these so called feminist beliefs many of the leading Hollywood women talk about.
https://twitter.com/Miss_Wisconsin/status/918178266984452097
Interesting clip of pedophilia in Hollywood.0 -
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The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »I think 'defend' would already also itself be prejudice.
I mean consider the matter in a balanced and objective way, and not just an uncritical jump on the bandwagon of condemnation.
He may indeed deserve criticism, but I see no rational discussion of what appropriate behaviour really is, whether everyone is obliged to conform to what the majority determine is appropriate, or a deeper consideration of human nature.
Sorry what? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. In the world I live in it's not okay to abuse women, sexually assault and exploit them for your pleasure and use them to inflate your power trip. That behaviour deserves nothing less than condemnation.
If Harvey had denied these accusations you may
have some point- but he didn't. He has admitted to being inappropriate, and pretty much blamed the culture of the time for allowing him. I really don't know what you're going on about. If you want to be "objective" and start a debate, nobody is stopping you.0 -
What he did was wrong and he took advantage of women.
Hope It comes back on him.
But sadly I'm not surprised. Heard few rumbles about him years ago.0 -
Outlaw Pete wrote: »
Anyway, weren't you the one that posted a clearly preplanned boob grab from Bundesvision Song Contest? Hell, even if we allow for naivety thinking it real, how does a boob grab between TV hosts (that's also being recorded) compare to women saying they were raped by Harvey Weinstein? It doesn't.
Preplanned boob grab? You must have watched that without your glasses, though I see you've already tried to pre-emptively dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as naive.
It wasn't a 'boob grab between TV hosts', the guy groped her and she reacted. That's quite the downplay there. It's been pretty clear to most who commented on it exactly what it was. Except you.0 -
I wasn't referring to the Kimmel video which is exactly why I never quoted it, I was referring to what I did quote which was your statement that "Anyway, weren't you the one that posted a clearly preplanned boob grab from Bundesvision Song Contest? Hell, even if we allow for naivety thinking it real, how does a boob grab between TV hosts (that's also being recorded) compare to women saying they were raped by Harvey Weinstein? It doesn't."Outlaw Pete wrote: »Again: I wasn't posting the Jimmy Kimmel clip to compare to what Harvey has done. As I expect nor was whoever posted the clip of Affleck. I posted it as people were discussing Jimmy hosting the Oscars and well, there he is being sleazy, so not the best choice I'm thinking. Quit reading something into the posting of it that wasn't intended. Cheers.
Boob grab = boob grab. That is what happened in the Bundesvision contest and that is what happened between the actress and Weinstein. They are the exact same thing.
No context!? He literally tells her to "go to the bathroom" and "sit there" while "I have a shower" when the two of them are alone in or at the doorway of his hotel room (he explicitly tells her the bathroom is "over there" and she says "I want to go downstairs") because "it will only take one minute until the guy comes with my jacket" (then he later says "five minutes, don't ruin your friendship with me for five minutes"), just days after touching her breast because as he says "I'm used to that" to which she expresses her own shock.Well, look, I give credence to most of the women's stories I have heard so far (that allege Harvey has mistreated them in one way or another) but that Italian, Ambra Battilana (or whatever she is calling herself today) to which you refer, I don't. She comes across to me as a serial victim given that she has history of accusing older rich men of sexually assaulting her.
I have listened to the tape by the way and while Harvey does admit touching her breast, we do not know in what context that occurred. Might very well have been an assault, if I had to bet, I'd say it was but it could also have happened in a more nefarious context entirely. Simply put: her credibility is lacking.
No doubt there will be sneers about using the DM as a source for the above but the only other link was to an Italian site (Ilgiornale.it).
Thankfully though, her story looks like it won't be all that necessary in order for Harvey to get his comeuppance, as there are women with much more credibility than her that have given their accounts of how he has mistreated them. Particularly, Mira.
https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/917765408412794880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanityfair.com%2Fhollywood%2F2017%2F10%2Fharvey-weinstein-audio-tape0 -
A Little Pony wrote: »Complete nonsense. They are not untouchable, that is just an excuse. These people need to be called out, not protected and people putting wealth before morality does not do it. Again I do not believe for years that no one else in Hollywood knew what this guy was doing outside of his victims. Plenty of them knew.
https://twitter.com/Miss_Wisconsin/status/918178266984452097
Interesting clip of pedophilia in Hollywood.
In the New York case, even with a wire where he admitted to crimes. No case was opened. Powerful people can become effectively untouchable. It happened with Savile and it happened with Weinstein.0 -
It's been pretty clear to most who commented on it exactly what it was. Except you.
It was set up and scripted. He's reading off an auto-cue and jokes about points and squeezes her. There would be no joke if he didn't and reading what he had wouldn't make sense. She didn't recoil for the very reason that it was planned. So was the slap. I remember the clip from years back and they played it up for ages that it was real, even the producers, but in the end they joked about it after as it became obvious. Look at it again. Particularly their expressions and body language. They work together all the time.
Justin Timberlake and and Mila Kunis did a similar one at an awards show where he grabbed her boobs and then she grabbed his gropes his testicles.
Anyway, I see Cara Delevingne has posted the following on Instagram:When I first started to work as an actress, i was working on a film and I received a call from Harvey Weinstein asking if I had slept with any of the women I was seen out with in the media. It was a very odd and uncomfortable call....i answered none of his questions and hurried off the phone but before I hung up, he said to me that If I was gay or decided to be with a woman especially in public that I'd never get the role of a straight woman or make it as an actress in Hollywood.
A year or two later, I went to a meeting with him in the lobby of a hotel with a director about an upcoming film. The director left the meeting and Harvey asked me to stay and chat with him. As soon as we were alone he began to brag about all the actresses he had slept with and how he had made their careers and spoke about other inappropriate things of a sexual nature.
He then invited me to his room. I quickly declined and asked his assistant if my car was outside. She said it wasn't and wouldn't be for a bit and I should go to his room. At that moment I felt very powerless and scared but didn't want to act that way hoping that I was wrong about the situation.
When I arrived I was relieved to find another woman in his room and thought immediately I was safe. He asked us to kiss and she began some sort of advances upon his direction. I swiftly got up and asked him if he knew that I could sing. And I began to sing....i thought it would make the situation better....more professional....like an audition....i was so nervous.
After singing I said again that I had to leave. He walked me to the door and stood in front of it and tried to kiss me on the lips. I stopped him and managed to get out of the room. I still got the part for the film and always thought that he gave it to me because of what happened. Since then I felt awful that I did the movie. I felt like I didn't deserve the part. I was so hesitant about speaking out....I didn't want to hurt his family. I felt guilty as if I did something wrong.
I was also terrified that this sort of thing had happened to so many women I know but no one had said anything because of fear.0 -
Boob grab = boob grab. That is what happened in the Bundesvision contest and that is what happened between the actress and Weinstein. They are the exact same thing.
As I said, even if it was real (most people think it is as Wiki tells them it is - check the reddit threads on it crop up every now and then) it still wouldn't compare as they were messing around and there was no sexual motive. The joke is about points awarded during the competition. That's why she's laughing afterwards also.No context!? He literally tells her to "go to the bathroom" and "sit there" while "I have a shower" when the two of them are alone in or at the doorway of his hotel room (he explicitly tells her the bathroom is "over there" and she says "I want to go downstairs") because "it will only take one minute until the guy comes with my jacket" (then he later says "five minutes, don't ruin your friendship with me for five minutes"), just days after touching her breast because as he says "I'm used to that" to which she expresses her own shock.
Eh, the breast touch happened at a previous meeting. I was referring to the context of it which was before she went to the Police.0 -
Well Ben Affleck has apologised for groping the reporter in the video I posted earlier:Actor Ben Affleck has apologised after being criticised for groping an MTV presenter on air in 2003.
The incident surfaced after he posted condemnation of Harvey Weinstein, who is facing sexual assault allegations.
One Twitter user remembered how Affleck "grabbed Hilarie Burton's breasts on TRL once" but "everyone forgot though". Burton replied: "I didn't forget."
Affleck later wrote on Twitter: "I acted inappropriately toward Ms Burton and I sincerely apologise."
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41589352
Howdy'a like them apples, Ben?0 -
Where did you say that?Outlaw Pete wrote: »As I said, even if it was real (and most people think it is as Wiki tells them it is) it wouldn't compare as they were messing around and there was no sexual motive. The joke is about points awarded during the competition.
So fondling a woman's breast isn't the same as fondling a woman's breast? Yes, it was real even if it doesn't fit in well with your narrative, and fondling a woman's breasts (or a guy's balls in the case of Terry Crews) is sexual assault. There absolutely was sexual motive and since you knew the context you were also well aware of that - the guy even said so directly before - "the two most beautiful points, the two points of my beautiful Czech Susanka (the co-host), they will stay with me this evening" and then grabbed her boobs.
That's not a joke about points awarded, that's a pervy comment about her tits which he then went for a grope of.
That's my point, the breast touch happened already and yet here he is soon after trying to lure her in to watch him have a shower in his hotel room. Under that context, no there is absolutely no way it was an innocent grab of her breast.Eh, the breast touch happened at a previous meeting. I'm referring to the context of it, before she went to the Police.
If you accidentally felt a woman's boobs would you be insisting on going to your hotel room to watch you shower? Obviously not.0 -
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Outlaw Pete wrote: »Anyway, I see Cara Delevingne has posted the following on Instagram:
She's got a short filmography so was easy to find the only Weinstein one, it's called Tulip Fever. It was only released over the summer but was shot in 2014. Looks like it got stuck in production hell which often ruins movies, this has 7% on Rotten Tomatoes... not that relevant to the overall topic but just explains the delay - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_Fever0
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