Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 2:31pm #1

I am not talking about the fact that it is a separate country, but purely from the standpoint of life and culture.

I am Northern Irish, so we are in the U.K. I lived in East Anglia and felt at times that the society was different, not from a stand point of infrastructure, food or day to day things but more the way of life in terms of cultural attitudes and communication.

The reservedness and inability to be direct and up front was something that I struggled to adapt to. I found it odd how the locals would avert eye contact, almost as if eye contact is a negative thing. I couldn’t get past the indirectness in communication; when communicating with English people I found it took a while to actually get down to the main point of what they were trying to say. Whilst here in Northern Ireland we just come out with it - (and I think that they did not like that approach).

If you visualise a politician being asked a question and not answering it. That is how the English communicate, with platitudes and indirectness... not actually getting to the point.

The very early closure of shops was also something that I found odd; 6pm shutters down everyday of the week, I’m not sure what it’s like in the south but here we would have shops open to 9pm at least a few days a week. To me closing that early is a very archaic practise, I know I struggled to get things done with such closing times, I’m not sure how working people are supposed to juggle such restrictive opening hours? Other things that stood out, would be the over reliance on public transport (most of my course mates at university had only started driving lessons, many were not intending to drive), small houses and large urban population.

So for me, yes certain aspects feel foreign, others don’t. Obviously for me it wouldn’t quite be the same as going to Spain etc.

Beechwoodspark · 11-04-2021 2:34pm

Yep. Very much so

I worked over there for 2 years in London and the Luton area.

One thing I noticed is how run down and dilapidated a lot of the UK cities are. Wasn’t expecting that.

Yes you had new developments but lot of run down areas too. More so than ireland

Pubs and restaurants are quite different atmosphere wise to here

And yea social interactions with people are different - as you say they are more reserved more indirect and lot of fake polite small talk

Complaining about things is a National hobby.

The class system is very real over there. Less so here.

There’s more inequality over there for sure.

I met and made some great friends. Some really sound people who I’m still in touch with.

On other hand I also met plenty of idiots - the anti irish “banter” consists of stuff like saying po-ta-to repeatedly when some randomer hears an Irish accent.

Had a few “paddy” comments over the years too.

I’m well aware British people get some insults etc here too.

In general though they are more reserved and unfriendly compared to here but I always remind myself they have 10 times the population so can’t really be compared like with like

Wallet Inspector · 11-04-2021 2:35pm

Can be very different in some ways indeed for somewhere so close. Way of life pretty much the same overall, but intricacies therein can be nothing alike.

Food is a big one in my opinion. A good quality but affordable restaurant/cafe is so much easier to find here.

pappyodaniel · 11-04-2021 2:36pm

Not really seeing as we hoover up their tele shows, sports and culture.
Saying that I've never been to England, but visited Scotland and Wales many times.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 2:38pm

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Not really seeing as we hoover up their tele shows, sports and culture.
Saying that I've never been to England, but visited Scotland and Wales many times.

I thought that England was similar until I moved there... there was a lot of differences that I didn’t notice when I visited, that I noticed upon moving.

Graces7 · 11-04-2021 2:39pm

It feels like a foreign county because it IS a foreign country...

I am English and yes, Ireland is a foreign country to me even over 20 years on. Oh I lived 10 years in Scotland between England and Ireland and that was a dfferent country too ...each country has its own nature and ways. Laws and customs. etc.

Be glad they do!

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 2:39pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yep. Very much so

I worked over there for 2 years

One thing I noticed is how run down and dilapidated a lot of the UK cities are. Wasn’t expecting that.

Yes you had new developments but lot of run down areas too. More so than ireland

Pubs and restaurants are quite different atmosphere wise to here

And yea social interactions with people are different - as you say they are more indirect and lot of fake polite small talk

In general they are unfriendly compared to here but I always remind myself they have 10 times the population so can’t really be compared like with like

They are definitely unfriendly from the standpoint of reaching out or communicating with strangers. I found my course mates kept to themselves and didn’t mix outside their own groups, it was very isolating.

I don’t think population size is relevant, it’s more of a cultural thing. There are many countries with large populations that have a generally friendly culture.

Cienciano · 11-04-2021 2:40pm

There's a lot of differences, but compared with Japan, Honduras and South Sudan, England is pretty similar to here

11-04-2021 2:43pm

They even have different accents and stuff.

11-04-2021 2:44pm

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 2:46pm

65535 wrote: »

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

I agree with you, I found I wasn’t taken seriously in conversation as an outsider. They would make stupid assumptions about me, explaining really daft things that also apply here, for ex, explaining to me about the general election when we vote in it lol etc. There is a lot of ignorance about other countries, even within the U.K. for ex, they use the term “U.K.” to mean England but when you talk about the other U.K. countries they look at you with a deer in headlights expression as if the other countries don’t exist or something idk.

tayto lover · 11-04-2021 2:52pm

Worked there for years.
Always found them friendly and good humoured in general even in the middle of the troubles.

indioblack · 11-04-2021 2:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They even have different accents and stuff.

When my mother arrived in England and began to talk the first thing they said was, "For God's sake slow down!"

11-04-2021 2:53pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I agree with you, I found I wasn’t taken seriously in conversation as an outsider. They would make stupid assumptions about me, explaining really daft things that also apply here, for ex, explaining to me about the general election when we vote in it lol etc. There is a lot of ignorance about other countries, even within the U.K. for ex, they use the term “U.K.” to mean England but when you talk about the other U.K. countries they look at you with a deer in headlights expression as if the other countries don’t exist or something idk.

Please, don't get me wrong - technically my dear Mother was British having been born in one of the 'treaty ports' back in the day. A lot of cousins, uncles etc. were in England and I indeed have spent happy years there. BUT there is an underlying 'we are better' all the time.
It can be explained in a Cork City context - there was the 'English Market' (which still thrives) and then there was 'Paddy's Market' which was the poorer area of Cornmarket street (which still runs but is called the Coal Quay)

Wallet Inspector · 11-04-2021 2:59pm

65535 wrote: »

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

I don't find that in general at all. If anything I find them to be self deprecating. I'm obviously not saying what you describe doesn't exist but it's a hugely ethnically diverse country, with masses who voted remain or regret voting leave, it's quite a politically correct culture, and for all those fawning over Prince Philip there are those who rail against royalty.

Like the recent thread about bank officials being stuck up, if people want to find what confirms their bias, they'll find it, but perception and reality can be different things.

bunny_mac · 11-04-2021 3:00pm

I lived there for 9 years in three difference cities: one in the south, one in the west and one in the north. I never found the people to be unfriendly or condescending but they're definitely friendlier the further north you go. It is friendly in a different way, though. Can't quite put my finger on it.

I totally agree with the ignorance of other countries, though. It was beyond belief at times, particularly the 'Ireland not being in the UK' part. I don't know how many times I heard things like 'Oh, don't you use Sterling?!', or how many times I baffled post office workers by having to explain to them that I couldn't use a 1st or 2nd class stamp to send something to Ireland.

And they seem to really hate the French. Like, really.

LillySV · 11-04-2021 3:03pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

The reservedness and inability to be direct and up front was something that I struggled to adapt to. I found it odd how the locals would avert eye contact, almost as if eye contact is a negative thing. I couldn’t get past the indirectness in communication; when communicating with English people I found it took a while to actually get down to the main point of what they were trying to say. Whilst here in Northern Ireland we just come out with it - (and I think that they did not like that approach).

If you visualise a politician being asked a question and not answering it. That is how the English communicate, with platitudes and indirectness... not actually getting to the point.

.

The reason for this im sure is to avoid the risk of unnecessary confrontation and potential violence....Uk has a lot of cultures mixed together now.... some very vocal and some not...some violent...some not....and soft penalties/sentences from the judicial system against the worst offenders leads to many places turning into a cesspit...alot of danger...so ordinary folk will keep to themselves to try ensure their safety...

Ireland is going this way now too...see the amount of stabbings and attacks taking place....alot of our rougher dublin folk have absolutely no fear of the law.....ordinary folk here are starting to keep to themselves too for safety and this will increase as our streets get more dangerous..

I actually had a colleague tell me the other day that he sees Ireland following the same path as england...we are only afew years behind them...he lived in Uk for years and only recently returned and he sees the difference...while we spoke we got a big whiff of canabis from a lady in her 40s who was openly smoking it on streets near us while with her kids....drug use here seems to be alot more acceptable here now which is never good..

Yyhhuuu · 11-04-2021 3:06pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I thought that England was similar until I moved there... there was a lot of differences that I didn’t notice when I visited, that I noticed upon moving.

Can you elaborate as to the differences please.. I thought the people I met in London quite polite and friendly, but I'm not saying they're all like that. Ditto for Liverpool. Manchester was a different story though.

snowstorm445 · 11-04-2021 3:19pm

I think there are degrees of what we consider to be foreign.

England always felt foreign from my point of view having been there a few times. On the one hand I think it's the manners and the attitudes of English people that stand out vs us, but it's also their knowledge of the world around them. The complete lack of awareness they have about Ireland versus ours of them to me feels foreign, even though that's a self-centred attitude. It's even weirder when it comes to Northern Ireland - it's part of their country and yet some of them are barely aware of it. As Brexit has shown their attitude towards the EU is also fundamentally different from ours, or from any other country in Europe.

But I'm living in Belgium at the moment and in hindsight England doesn't feel as foreign as it does here. The language barrier is a major factor, but you also realise how much media and information we had from Britain growing up and how that doesn't exist here at all (outside of people with a special interest in it). But we do have a lot more in common with other Europeans than we think. I suspect if I were to travel somewhere outside of Europe, especially to Asia, it would feel even more foreign again.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 3:22pm

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Can you elaborate as to the differences please.. I thought the people I met in London quite polite and friendly, but I'm not saying they're all like that. Ditto for Liverpool. Manchester was a different story though.

Very reserved, didn’t show much emotion, kept to themselves. They did not mix with or speak to people outside their friend groups. I was on a course for a few years with numerous people so this is not one group and is my general experience.

I found that people formed friendships there through connections, you couldn’t just form friendships by speaking to coursemates/strangers as you can here.

The reservedness would be all over, for example, if you were on a bus or a train, it would be silent. Nobody would speak, nobody would make eye contact. People would get on, sit and read a book or look out and get off when their stop was reached. That to me is a very alien concept and not at all how transport is here, as bus rides are certainly not silent here.

Larbre34 · 11-04-2021 3:22pm

It does.

A place without hope or ambition. Mostly a dreary post war sink, propped up by an ailing welfare state.

But predominantly, just the complete absence of craic.

Buddy Bubs · 11-04-2021 3:24pm

Bar staff are brutal

11-04-2021 3:25pm

The way you describe English people is exactly how I would describe Irish people.
The North of England is the opposite, I think you need to travel more over there.
Even shops stay open late in some cities

Do I find it foreign? No. Is it different to Ireland? Yep

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 3:28pm

bubblypop wrote: »

The way you describe English people is exactly how I would describe Irish people.
The North of England is the opposite, I think you need to travel more over there.
Even shops stay open late in some cities

Do I find it foreign? No. Is it different to Ireland? Yep

I don’t really know what you’re talking about but where I am in Northern Ireland the social scene is completely different to where I lived in England. People here are not at all reserved. People here are not at all afraid of speaking the truth.

11-04-2021 3:29pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I don’t really know what you’re talking about but where I am in Northern Ireland the social scene is completely different to where I lived in England. People here are not at all reserved. People here are not at all afraid of taking the truth.

Well in the South they are!

Economics101 · 11-04-2021 3:32pm

The North of England is in general much more friendly than the South. If you have encountered a stuck-up attitude, then the odds are 10:1 it was in the South.

Having said that, some of the more depressing places are will away from the prosperous South and South-East. Landing off the ferry I was struck at how wretched places like Fishguard and Bangor were.

AdrianBalboa · 11-04-2021 3:33pm

No, not really.

Arthur Daley · 11-04-2021 3:35pm

North of England is different to the South East. You also have to remember how close the SE is to France, Belgium and Holland. Closer as the crow flies than Ireland. And west of Ireland may as well be Czecholsovakia in distance.

Shops in the UK opened extended hours and Sunday before they did in Ireland from what I recall. Sunday opening is a fairly recent development anyway.

Zebra3 · 11-04-2021 3:39pm

Does feel foreign because it is.

Wouldn't be a fan of London. Too big a city for my liking. Manchester is decent for a night out. The amount of towns though that their main street just seems to consist of charity shops, pubs and gold for cash merchants is disturbing. But sure that was all the EU's fault.

Edinburgh is easily the nicest British city. Parts of it would make you feel like you were in somewhere like Vienna.

People in general don't know much about their own history apart from WWII. Very odd to me that while students here study seven subjects for their LC, the equivalent in Britain only seems to study three.

Their obsession with their military (poppy nonsense and all that) and their unelected head of state and her family is very disturbing.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 3:42pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

North of England is different to the South East. You also have to remember how close the SE is to France, Belgium and Holland. Closer as the crow flies than Ireland. And west of Ireland may as well be Czecholsovakia in distance.

Shops in the UK opened extended hours and Sunday before they did in Ireland from what I recall. Sunday opening is a fairly recent development anyway.

I don’t know what the hours are in the south. Here there is 2-3 days a week where the shops are open to 9pm, the rest of the week is 7pm. The city I was in had 6pm hours most days bar 8pm on Friday and Saturday.

biko · 11-04-2021 3:43pm

Yes, because it is.

Hyperbollix · 11-04-2021 3:45pm

A foreign land? Oh yes. I always marvel at University Challenge. You get these insanely well read 20 year olds attending the Oxbridge colleges who can answer questions on the most obscure / niche subject matter with utter confidence and mostly arrogance.... When it comes to geography, they will spit out answers to questions about the regions of Mongolia like they've lived there themselves and have direct experience.

But give them a question on their nearest neighbouring island and they will all flounder. It's actually comical to watch Paxman ask them something about Ireland which any Junior cert student would laugh at and see a whole team of geniuses scrabbling around to the point of almost saying things like "GUINNESS?.............er...............LEPRECHAUNS?"

If the cream of the British education system is THIS clueless about Ireland, it's really no wonder we are where we are.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 3:49pm

They’re like that about Scotland too

Hyperbollix · 11-04-2021 3:52pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

They’re like that about Scotland too

Yeah, to an extent, but by and large you can tell Scotland is viewed as in their own country. There is a baseline of knowledge that is usually there. When it comes to Ireland, it's normally a blackhole of knowledge.

I hasten to add, they are equally as clueless about the Six counties. This isn't a UK v Ireland thing from their perspective. It's nice to know all these little future Boris Johnson's view Ireland as one singular place and culture. Wish someone would tell Arlene!

theteal · 11-04-2021 4:00pm

Well I live in a small Essex town. Yes it feels a bit foreign to me at times but I can't say it wasn't expected and I will never refer to it as "home". People for the most part are really nice and there's a very strong local spirit with litter picks and crime watch etc. for example. There are a few walking stereotypes around but meh, leave them at it. I've worked in London for most of the last decade and have adjusted to it but give me Dublin any day.

Charles Babbage · 11-04-2021 4:02pm

Someone observed that if you are in any doubt that England is a foreign country, then go to a funeral.

Gaoth Laidir · 11-04-2021 4:04pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am not talking about the fact that it is a separate country, but purely from the standpoint of life and culture.

I am Northern Irish, so we are in the U.K. I lived in East Anglia and felt at times that the society was different, not from a stand point of infrastructure, food or day to day things but more the way of life in terms of cultural attitudes and communication.

The reservedness and inability to be direct and up front was something that I struggled to adapt to. I found it odd how the locals would avert eye contact, almost as if eye contact is a negative thing. I couldn’t get past the indirectness in communication; when communicating with English people I found it took a while to actually get down to the main point of what they were trying to say. Whilst here in Northern Ireland we just come out with it - (and I think that they did not like that approach).

If you visualise a politician being asked a question and not answering it. That is how the English communicate, with platitudes and indirectness... not actually getting to the point.

The very early closure of shops was also something that I found odd; 6pm shutters down everyday of the week, I’m not sure what it’s like in the south but here we would have shops open to 9pm at least a few days a week. To me closing that early is a very archaic practise, I know I struggled to get things done with such closing times, I’m not sure how working people are supposed to juggle such restrictive opening hours? Other things that stood out, would be the over reliance on public transport (most of my course mates at university had only started driving lessons, many were not intending to drive), small houses and large urban population.

So for me, yes certain aspects feel foreign, others don’t. Obviously for me it wouldn’t quite be the same as going to Spain etc.

Which would you say is more foreign to you: England or the Republic of Ireland?

theteal · 11-04-2021 4:08pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Someone observed that if you are in any doubt that England is a foreign country, then go to a funeral.

Weddings are different too - "what do you mean, last orders???"

cj maxx · 11-04-2021 4:09pm

No it doesn't. I lived in the NW for 3 years in the mid 90's . Even though it was the height of the troubles , I was never made to feel uncomfortable by the vast majority of people I met.
People were just more open and took you at face value. Sorry I ever left.

flazio · 11-04-2021 4:13pm

It's not just country or sea borders though. The way of life in Galway is quite different to that of Dublin for example. Heck the peoples Republic of Cork can feel like an alien experience.

BuboBubo · 11-04-2021 4:19pm

Yes it does, because it is.

Only been there for holidays a few times (in the south) people seemed more brash there than here in Ireland. It was either overt friendliness or total snub, no inbetween. Haven't been over since 2018.

One thing I really liked in England was the variety of things to do, no shortage of entertainment. Something for everyone, they have a massive population there to cater for which we don't have.

The cider over there is damn good too.

YoshiReturns · 11-04-2021 4:23pm

Going to a pub in and around London always felt cold, soulless and alien to me. Meanwhile in the middle of Dublin, at least before covid, you could drop into lots of places for a relaxed quiet pint and just melt into the place. Have a chat or just chill. So, yes, felt foreign to me.

RobMc59 · 11-04-2021 4:24pm

bunny_mac wrote: »

I lived there for 9 years in three difference cities: one in the south, one in the west and one in the north. I never found the people to be unfriendly or condescending but they're definitely friendlier the further north you go. It is friendly in a different way, though. Can't quite put my finger on it.

I totally agree with the ignorance of other countries, though. It was beyond belief at times, particularly the 'Ireland not being in the UK' part. I don't know how many times I heard things like 'Oh, don't you use Sterling?!', or how many times I baffled post office workers by having to explain to them that I couldn't use a 1st or 2nd class stamp to send something to Ireland.

And they seem to really hate the French. Like, really.

It's a love hate thing between the UK (mostly England)and France Probably because historically they were colonial rivals.
Regarding the friendliness of mainland people,I agree northerners are generally more friendly.

Castlekeeper · 11-04-2021 4:32pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's a love hate thing between the UK (mostly England)and France Probably because historically they were colonial rivals.
Regarding the friendliness of mainland people,I agree northerners are generally more friendly.

I'd say it's more to do with the fact that the proximate regions were all the one once upon a time, and then there was was a big break up. I know people from the north of France who, I was surprised to be told, would feel culturally closer to SE England than the South of France, and similarly people from the South of France who felt closer to Northern Spain than Northern France, but that may have been a Basque thing iirc.

11-04-2021 4:38pm

BuboBubo wrote: »

Yes it does, because it is.

Only been there for holidays a few times (in the south) people seemed more brash there than here in Ireland. It was either overt friendliness or total snub, no inbetween. Haven't been over since 2018.

One thing I really liked in England was the variety of things to do, no shortage of entertainment. Something for everyone, they have a massive population there to cater for which we don't have.

The cider over there is damn good too.

For me it was always the ALES.....the hand pumped liquid heaven

cj maxx · 11-04-2021 4:40pm

BuboBubo wrote: »

Yes it does, because it is.

Only been there for holidays a few times (in the south) people seemed more brash there than here in Ireland. It was either overt friendliness or total snub, no inbetween. Haven't been over since 2018.

One thing I really liked in England was the variety of things to do, no shortage of entertainment. Something for everyone, they have a massive population there to cater for which we don't have.

The cider over there is damn good too.

Very true, something for everyone in close proximity. Its also very true that southerners are very brash and not as welcoming. My experience is of living in Preston, which had a huge Irish diaspora and a lot of NI students.
Close to Manchester and Liverpool which are friendly enough cities for the Irish. Cider not so much

Charles Babbage · 11-04-2021 4:50pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Very reserved, didn’t show much emotion, kept to themselves. They did not mix with or speak to people outside their friend groups. I was on a course for a few years with numerous people so this is not one group and is my general experience.

I found that people formed friendships there through connections, you couldn’t just form friendships by speaking to coursemates/strangers as you can here.

The reservedness would be all over, for example, if you were on a bus or a train, it would be silent. Nobody would speak, nobody would make eye contact. People would get on, sit and read a book or look out and get off when their stop was reached. That to me is a very alien concept and not at all how transport is here, as bus rides are certainly not silent here.

Then there is the joke: A ship sank and an Irish man and Irish woman, an English man and an English woman and a Scots Man and Scots woman were washed up on a remote island. When the rescuers arrived 5 years later they discovered that the Scots had got together and built a whisky still, the Irish man and woman had 6 children. The rescuers approached the Englishman who run over to them and said "thank God you've arrived, I need someone to introduce me to the woman".

PokeHerKing · 11-04-2021 5:13pm

I've never lived in the UK but haven been to Cardiff, London, Newcastle, Liverpool, Glasgow etc. All felt as foreign as a trip to Northern France or Barcelona as far as I'm concerned. They're different countries so why would they not feel foreign?

I suspect as a Northern unionist it may have taken you by surprise as you were expecting it to be your Mecca or something but I don't think any Irish person would be surprised that Britain is in fact a foreign land like any other.

11-04-2021 5:15pm

It definitely does. England has no soul in it whatsoever.

Beechwoodspark · 11-04-2021 5:56pm

YoshiReturns wrote: »

Going to a pub in and around London always felt cold, soulless and alien to me. Meanwhile in the middle of Dublin, at least before covid, you could drop into lots of places for a relaxed quiet pint and just melt into the place. Have a chat or just chill. So, yes, felt foreign to me.

Would agree. Soulless corporate branded “venues”.

Barring a few exceptions The pubs over there are mostly Crap.

An Ri rua · 11-04-2021 6:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They even have different accents and stuff.

Ah no, theres a crowd up around parts of Dublin that sound just like them.

Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

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