Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

H.E. Pennypacker · 07-08-2018 8:15pm

6 x 295w mono panels €3,140 + vat

immersion diverter €420 extra (not clear if vat is included)

2.4 kWh battery €3,600 (not clear if vat is included)

Shefwedfan · 07-08-2018 8:26pm

kceire wrote: »

Am I missing something here? I think its pretty clear tbh.

No I thought it was fairly clear........

conor_mc · 07-08-2018 9:45pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would have thought SEAI might bother letting the companies know before releasing the grant so they would get time to get added.....but sure that would make sense:D

I like a bash a quango as much as the next (wo)man, but isn’t the grant available from Oct therefore they have been given time to get added???

Shefwedfan · 07-08-2018 9:47pm

conor_mc wrote: »

I like a bash a quango as much as the next (wo)man, but isn’t the grant available from Oct therefore they have been given time to get added???

Good point, I forgot that in the scramble to spend money :P

Shefwedfan · 08-08-2018 3:45pm

Electric Ireland will only quote for 1.8kWp system unless you have planning permission already in place...that is what they told me today

quentingargan · 08-08-2018 3:59pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Electric Ireland will only quote for 1.8kWp system unless you have planning permission already in place...that is what they told me today

From the code of practice for installers;

The Installer must use due care and attention to design a suitable, and optimum, solar PV
system (and storage system, if included) for the homeowner, considering;
• A minimum design life of 20 years
• Planning, and local authority requirements

See HERE
I don't think many installers will go sticking their necks out on this aspect.

gunnerfitzy · 08-08-2018 5:13pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Electric Ireland will only quote for 1.8kWp system unless you have planning permission already in place...that is what they told me today

The same was confirmed to me today also. I asked how can I get PP without a system design. They said I don't need a design, the local authority would just tell me the maximum I can install.

Shefwedfan · 08-08-2018 5:52pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

The same was confirmed to me today also. I asked how can I get PP without a system design. They said I don't need a design, the local authority would just tell me the maximum I can install.

My point was why would I get planning permission is I don't know if I can afford a 4kWp system....:P

gunnerfitzy · 08-08-2018 6:04pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My point was why would I get planning permission is I don't know if I can afford a 4kWp system....:P

Indeed. They are shooting themselves in the foot by being ruled out at the initial stage by potential customers. They should make it a requirement that PP is in place prior to the signing of contracts; not before the quotation.

Shefwedfan · 08-08-2018 7:25pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Indeed. They are shooting themselves in the foot by being ruled out at the initial stage by potential customers. They should make it a requirement that PP is in place prior to the signing of contracts; not before the quotation.

Thats what other companies are doing.

According to Electric Ireland they wasted too much time going out to peoples house. Quoting and then the person wouldn't get planning permission or thought it was too expensive

Now I can 100% understand that. Hence why for these types of job's when I am unsure if I will go ahead I will give Eircode and get them to review the site from google maps and they can price base on that. Saves them money coming out.....

gunnerfitzy · 08-08-2018 7:43pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Thats what other companies are doing.

According to Electric Ireland they wasted too much time going out to peoples house. Quoting and then the person wouldn't get planning permission or thought it was too expensive

Now I can 100% understand that. Hence why for these types of job's when I am unsure if I will go ahead I will give Eircode and get them to review the site from google maps and they can price base on that. Saves them money coming out.....

I can see your logic, however, I refuse to go to Step H just because the company couldn't be bothered doing Step D. I'm not going to give anyone thousands of euro of my money if they can't be bothered doing a site visit, answering my questions and giving a detailed quote.

Shefwedfan · 08-08-2018 7:52pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

I can see your logic, however, I refuse to go to Step H just because the company couldn't be bothered doing Step D. I'm not going to give anyone thousands of euro of my money if they can't be bothered doing a site visit, answering my questions and giving a detailed quote.

My brother is a tradesman. I also have a good few friends who are tradesman.

In the last few years they could spend every night of the week going from one house to another quoting people. All these people are looking for something for nothing....For work/life balance they have had to stop.

So I have no issue if they want to check you are really interested before spending time/money coming out. If really all you are doing is price checking against XYZ, easier just to quote over internet and if you want to go forward then site survey is way to go

niallers1 · 08-08-2018 8:36pm

4.1kw with 4.8kwh battery €9,900 includes VAT So €6,100 after grant.

wexfordman2 · 08-08-2018 8:55pm

niallers1 wrote: »

4.1kw with 4.8kwh battery €9,900 includes VAT So €6,100 after grant.

What kind if battery ?

I am getting a price for a 4kw solar system using "solarwatt" glass on glass panels, with a 5kwh ac/DC battery and Eddi diverter for 11k inc vat, so 7,200 cost after grant

niallers1 · 08-08-2018 9:35pm

2 x 2.4kwh pylontech battery. Decent enough reviews on the battery.

295 watt Trina black panels
Vandervalk mounting system.

I think If You have the battery might not need the eddi. Just flick the switch on the immersion when there is juice in the battery.

Shefwedfan · 15-08-2018 9:59am

Just wondering has anyone got an actually quote and kit list from Electric Ireland for the base 2kW package. Or 1.8 I think it is

What invertor do they install?

H.E. Pennypacker · 15-08-2018 10:52am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just wondering has anyone got an actually quote and kit list from Electric Ireland for the base 2kW package. Or 1.8 I think it is

What invertor do they install?

I spoke with two companies who said that they fit the Electric Ireland setup but they used different kit so I don't think that there's a standard Electric Ireland kit. I'm open to correction on that though. I applied for the interest free credit deal and was told that I'd be contacted by a subcontractor.

Shefwedfan · 15-08-2018 1:26pm

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

I spoke with two companies who said that they fit the Electric Ireland setup but they used different kit so I don't think that there's a standard Electric Ireland kit. I'm open to correction on that though. I applied for the interest free credit deal and was told that I'd be contacted by a subcontractor.

Just to update. For the 1.8kW installation it is a Trannergy 1800W

gunnerfitzy · 17-08-2018 7:38am

Quote:
12 x 310w panels (3.72kw)
5kw battery
Eddi
Zappi

€13,300 inc VAT and after grant

Shefwedfan · 17-08-2018 11:56am

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Quote:
12 x 310w panels (3.72kw)
5kw battery
Eddi
Zappi

€13,300 inc VAT and after grant

hahaha....

Seriously that is taking the urine.....

Post that companies name

So they have taken the grant and added it to the price.....so they are just taking the grant into their back pocket

unkel · 17-08-2018 1:14pm

Looks like they trebled the grant and took it into their back pocket. Rip off Ireland back in its full glory :rolleyes:

wexfordman2 · 17-08-2018 5:51pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Quote:
12 x 310w panels (3.72kw)
5kw battery
Eddi
Zappi

€13,300 inc VAT and after grant

Oh my sweet mother of jesus, that is appalling.

I have a quote for 4kw plus 5kw battery, plus Eddi, for 11k inc vat, before grant, so end cost is 7k, and I still think that's too high, and thats using high end panels.

Name them and shame them

gunnerfitzy · 17-08-2018 6:33pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Quote:
12 x 310w panels (3.72kw)
5kw battery
Eddi
Zappi

€13,300 inc VAT and after grant

It was an interesting conversation I can tell you.

When I brought up about the planning and 12m2 being maximum limit that was exempt the guy told me that 12m2 was 12 meters in length by 12 meters in height and I that I had nothing to worry about!! I then explained with the aid of a diagram what 12m2 actually was!

I was told that the standing charge for night time electricity over a 24hr rate was an extra 50e/60e per month (if anyone doesn’t know - it’s not).

When I asked for a formal quote I was told that the figures I got on the back of the sheet of paper was the best I’m going to get without ordering.

I won’t name and shame as I don’t want a slap on the wrist or worse from a mod but If anyone is getting quotes and want to know the name of the company just send me a PM.

gunnerfitzy · 17-08-2018 6:51pm

On a better note I got a somewhat more favourable quote.

10 x 320w panels (3.2kw system)
5kw hybrid battery
EDDI

€6,888 inc VAT and after grant.

Shefwedfan · 17-08-2018 7:11pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

It was an interesting conversation I can tell you.

When I brought up about the planning and 12m2 being maximum limit that was exempt the guy told me that 12m2 was 12 meters in length by 12 meters in height and I that I had nothing to worry about!! I then explained with the aid of a diagram what 12m2 actually was!

I was told that the standing charge for night time electricity over a 24hr rate was an extra 50e/60e per month (if anyone doesn’t know - it’s not).

When I asked for a formal quote I was told that the figures I got on the back of the sheet of paper was the best I’m going to get without ordering.

I won’t name and shame as I don’t want a slap on the wrist or worse from a mod but If anyone is getting quotes and want to know the name of the company just send me a PM.

Reminds me of Activ8 sales guy for solar thermal I had out once

gunnerfitzy · 17-08-2018 7:51pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Reminds me of Activ8 sales guy for solar thermal I had out once

Really...

Balanadan · 17-08-2018 8:33pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My brother is a tradesman. I also have a good few friends who are tradesman.

In the last few years they could spend every night of the week going from one house to another quoting people. All these people are looking for something for nothing....For work/life balance they have had to stop.

So I have no issue if they want to check you are really interested before spending time/money coming out. If really all you are doing is price checking against XYZ, easier just to quote over internet and if you want to go forward then site survey is way to go

I know a lot of trades that don't quote randomers emailing them or phoning them unless they can meet the person and survey as they're just looking for something for nothing and wasting their time!

gally74 · 17-08-2018 9:49pm

niallers1 wrote: »

4.1kw with 4.8kwh battery €9,900 includes VAT So €6,100 after grant.

Can u p m me company

wexfordman2 · 18-08-2018 1:49am

gally74 wrote: »

Can u p m me company

Can you pm ne also please and can you say what name of panels etc ?

gunnerfitzy · 18-08-2018 4:40am

niallers1 wrote: »

4.1kw with 4.8kwh battery €9,900 includes VAT So €6,100 after grant.

Could you PM me details also please? Cheers.

Silent Running · 18-08-2018 7:47am

niallers1 wrote: »

4.1kw with 4.8kwh battery €9,900 includes VAT So €6,100 after grant.

Ya, me too, please. I don't know why we can't just mention the companies involved. If they have a problem with their quotes being made public, they should't make them so ugly.

wexfordman2 · 24-08-2018 12:01pm

Ok, I've got a bit of a quandry now.

So, to date I have a quote of 11k for 4kwp solar with 5kw battery and hybrid inverter and eddi water heater equating to 7k after seai grant

Yesterday, was speaking to another company y who told me the battery was a poor invesent and should avoid it. He offered a 3.5kwp system for a cost of 5,100 after grant (which I think is expensive actually.

So for 1900 euro extra I am getting 4kwp instead of 3.5kwp and also a 5kwh battery with hybrid inverter meaning I can charge up at night time

Any thoughts ?

air · 24-08-2018 12:30pm

He's right that batteries still make no financial sense on grid at current price levels.
I don't have them and end up paying the low user surcharge half the year. The best ROI will be on a PV only system.

unkel · 24-08-2018 12:41pm

air wrote: »

He's right that batteries still make no financial sense on grid at current price levels.
I don't have them and end up paying the low user surcharge half the year. The best ROI will be on a PV only system.

You can't claim that outright without having more detailed split down of the install and parts costs

A 2.4kWh battery costs €975 + VAT (€1,100 including the VAT when done by an approved installer) and you get €1,000 subsidy

Looks to me like you should be able to add a small battery for very little money: €100 net cost of the battery + the extra install cost of the battery (can't see that being more than €100)

Plus maybe the cost of upgrading the inverter to a hybrid one

denismc · 24-08-2018 12:55pm

I had panels fitted in May before the grant was announced.

8x260w panels with Goodwe 2500w inverter installed (2.08kw)= €3178 incl vat

Using HRI incentive , cost to me = €2800

Sleeper12 · 24-08-2018 12:55pm

I agree about the battery. Then when you take the battery out of the equation why bother at all. I think its all still over priced.

I still think it's cheaper to get your regular RECI electrician to do the work forgetting about grants it will work out cheaper. Imagine not talking cash but these dedicated companies are just to expensive. There is already evidence of their pr going up since the announcement of the grant

air · 24-08-2018 1:03pm

Granted if you can get the battery, controller and installation for €100 it changes things!
Just goes to show what a stupid system this grant scheme is.
There's no environmental argument for domestic battery storage at our current level of PV penetration. Everyone should be encouraged to export to the grid until that changes.

I have to agree on Sleepers conclusion, prices being quoted here are very high vs the hardware costs.

KCross · 24-08-2018 1:19pm

unkel wrote: »

You can't claim that outright without having more detailed split down of the install and parts costs

A 2.4kWh battery costs €975 + VAT (€1,100 including the VAT when done by an approved installer) and you get €1,000 subsidy

Looks to me like you should be able to add a small battery for very little money: €100 net cost of the battery + the extra install cost of the battery (can't see that being more than €100)

Plus maybe the cost of upgrading the inverter to a hybrid one

The difference in cost between a hybrid inverter and a standard one is not far off €1k!

Any quotes I've seen for battery supply and install are nowhere near the €1100 inc vat you are quoting so I'd be interested to hear where you are getting that price from. Or is that €1100 when you buy it directly yourself?

Based on the figures I've calculated the battery install makes no financial sense even with the €1000 grant.

Batteries are coming down in cost and I think it makes more sense to wait for them to drop further rather than get hung up on the €1000 grant today. Wait long enough(3-5yrs maybe) and you will get better systems saving you more in capital costs than the grant is saving you today.

Some back of beer mat figures..... lets say, all things being equal, that the cost difference (after grant) between a system with and without a 2.4kWh battery is €1500... whats the ROI on that €1500....

16c/kWh for day rate electricity so thats just short of 10,000 units being required to break even.... thats ~4000 cycles of the battery which equates to ~11yrs and thats assuming that you get to cycle the battery everyday which won't actually happen in reality for several months of the year so its probably closer to 20yrs in reality..... it just doesn't add up.

Also bear in mind that the 2.4kWh is probably not all usable and all the systems I've seen have a 10yr warranty guaranteeing 80% capacity so by the time it has paid for itself (15-20yrs) the battery is probably <80%.... it could be cooked!

Battery costs need to come down before it makes any sense.

People also need to watch the quotes..... some providers are giving high PV only quotes to make it look like the batteries are worth going for, but the reality is that their PV only quotes are high, not the battery quote being low.

Get better PV only quotes and save yourself the capital cost of the batteries is my advice.

unkel · 24-08-2018 1:51pm

KCross wrote: »

Any quotes I've seen for battery supply and install are nowhere near the €1100 inc vat you are quoting so I'd be interested to hear where you are getting that price from. Or is that €1100 when you buy it directly yourself?

No it's the price of the 2.4kWh battery that's €975 + VAT

I was just wondering how much the cheapest solution would be to get a tiny battery in, so you have the infrastructure in place to add larger batteries in a few years time

But you're quite right, a hybrid inverter costs a lot more than a normal one but if you are going to need one in a few years time anyway, you might as welll install it now (I don't think inverters will come down in price relatively as much as solar panels and batteries over the next few years)

Alternatively have a battery installed on the AC end, but I'm getting the impression this is more expensive than on the DC end (connected to hybrid inverter)

KCross · 24-08-2018 2:12pm

unkel wrote: »

No it's the price of the 2.4kWh battery that's €975 + VAT

Thats to buy it direct I guess? Not the price quoted, as installers will no doubt add on some margin for themselves. Add on the install costs and the hybrid inverter, subtract the €1000 grant and you are likely in the €1500 bracket, like I suggest.

unkel wrote: »

I was just wondering how much the cheapest solution would be to get a tiny battery in, so you have the infrastructure in place to add larger batteries in a few years time

I sense you are focussed on drawing the €1000 grant!

I think its short sighted. Draw the €1000 now but the batteries and inverters could drop by that much in the next few years anyway and the €1000 grant might still exist.

unkel wrote: »

But you're quite right, a hybrid inverter costs a lot more than a normal one but if you are going to need one in a few years time anyway, you might as welll install it now (I don't think inverters will come down in price relatively as much as solar panels and batteries over the next few years)

It remains to be seen whether hybrid inverters will drop in price or not. My guess is that they will. They are relatively new tech (not inverters per se but domestic hybrid ones) and they don't have economies of scale yet. If Solar PV ramps up with the panels costs coming down and crucially battery costs coming down you could see an increase in demand for hybrid inverters which could in turn result in better pricing. It won't bring it down by €1k but maybe €500 is possible.

I still just don't think it makes sense to add a battery via the grant system. It might make sense if you do it outside the grant, directly sourced parts and have a good spark friend who will do it for you as a favour.

unkel · 24-08-2018 2:33pm

Yeah all of your post makes perfect sense. And yes I do have a sparks friend

He also installed the upgraded RCBO in my consumer unit after I upgraded my car's EVSE from 16A to 32A. I got the part, he was around anyway, 2 minute job for him and I got him a nice bottle of wine. No way would I go inside the CU myself!

wexfordman2 · 24-08-2018 2:33pm

KCross wrote: »

The difference in cost between a hybrid inverter and a standard one is not far off €1k!

Any quotes I've seen for battery supply and install are nowhere near the €1100 inc vat you are quoting so I'd be interested to hear where you are getting that price from. Or is that €1100 when you buy it directly yourself?

Based on the figures I've calculated the battery install makes no financial sense even with the €1000 grant.

Batteries are coming down in cost and I think it makes more sense to wait for them to drop further rather than get hung up on the €1000 grant today. Wait long enough(3-5yrs maybe) and you will get better systems saving you more in capital costs than the grant is saving you today.

Some back of beer mat figures..... lets say, all things being equal, that the cost difference (after grant) between a system with and without a 2.4kWh battery is €1500... whats the ROI on that €1500....

16c/kWh for day rate electricity so thats just short of 10,000 units being required to break even.... thats ~4000 cycles of the battery which equates to ~11yrs and thats assuming that you get to cycle the battery everyday which won't actually happen in reality for several months of the year so its probably closer to 20yrs in reality..... it just doesn't add up.

Also bear in mind that the 2.4kWh is probably not all usable and all the systems I've seen have a 10yr warranty guaranteeing 80% capacity so by the time it has paid for itself (15-20yrs) the battery is probably <80%.... it could be cooked!

Battery costs need to come down before it makes any sense.

People also need to watch the quotes..... some providers are giving high PV only quotes to make it look like the batteries are worth going for, but the reality is that their PV only quotes are high, not the battery quote being low.

Get better PV only quotes and save yourself the capital cost of the batteries is my advice.

Well, it's an interesting comparison, I have two quotes from two different installers

1) a 3.54kwp solar system with hit water diverter at a cost of 7,500 Inc vat and Grant back if 1400, so cost to me is 6,100

2) A 4kwp system with a 5kwh battery and hybrid inverter and hot water diverter at a cost of 11k, with 3,800 grant so cost to me is 7,200.

So the larger of system with a 5kwh battery is costing me 1,100 extra only.

KCross · 24-08-2018 2:44pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Well, it's an interesting comparison, I have two quotes from two different installers

1) a 3.54kwp solar system with hit water diverter at a cost of 7,500 Inc vat and Grant back if 1400, so cost to me is 6,100

2) A 4kwp system with a 5kwh battery and hybrid inverter and hot water diverter at a cost of 11k, with 3,800 grant so cost to me is 7,200.

So the larger of system with a 5kwh battery is costing me 11,00 extra only.

The €6100 quote is too high though so that makes the €7200 look better than it is. Have you got a few quotes?

You should be able to get the 3.54kWp quote closer to €5k.

And how about try a 2.4kWp quote... that should come in around €3500.

Keep in mind here that having a larger kWp doesn't necessarily give you anything extra... it will just be going back to the grid!

There is no free lunch here.... get larger kWp system and give more to the grid or add batteries to reduce that but pay through the nose for the batteries!

The only set of figures that made any sense for me based on my consumption and the quotes I got were to put in a 2.4kWp system with no batteries and even then the payback was ~12yrs.

Don't believe any of the ROI figures the sales guys give you. They all assume standard tariff electricity prices (20c+/kWh) and they assume a water diverter thus giving 100% utilisation which is a fudge because water doesn't cost 20c/kWh to heat (gas, oil, heat pumps are all cheaper than that).

If your motivation is environmental then thats fair enough. You can't quantify that.

wexfordman2 · 24-08-2018 2:58pm

KCross wrote: »

The €6100 quote is too high though so that makes the €7200 look better than it is. Have you got a few quotes?

You should be able to get the 3.54kWp quote closer to €5k.

And how about try a 2.4kWp quote... that should come in around €3500.

Keep in mind here that having a larger kWp doesn't necessarily give you anything extra... it will just be going back to the grid!

There is no free lunch here.... get larger kWp system and give more to the grid or add batteries to reduce that but pay through the nose for the batteries!

The only set of figures that made any sense for me based on my consumption and the quotes I got were to put in a 2.4kWp system with no batteries and even then the payback was ~12yrs.

Don't believe any of the ROI figures the sales guys give you. They all assume standard tariff electricity prices (20c+/kWh) and they assume a water diverter thus giving 100% utilisation which is a fudge because water doesn't cost 20c/kWh to heat (gas, oil, heat pumps are all cheaper than that).

If your motivation is environmental then thats fair enough. You can't quantify that.

Thanks,

I have two other reasons for.considering battery though. First, we use night saver, so should be able to charge battery and use during the day at night rate.

The other thing, is if I am not borrowing to pay for it, and I had the money for the battery sitting in the bank, would it not be earning more for me as a battery than as a deposit ?

unkel · 24-08-2018 3:07pm

KCross wrote: »

The only set of figures that made any sense for me based on my consumption and the quotes I got were to put in a 2.4kWp system with no batteries and even then the payback was ~12yrs.

You have PV, so that was before the subsidies came in? What were you quoted and how was it broken down in material and labour?

KCross · 24-08-2018 3:13pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Thanks,
I have two other reasons for.considering battery though. First, we use night saver, so should be able to charge battery and use during the day at night rate.

Not all battery systems allow you to top up on the AC side. You'll need to clarify that with the quotes you've got.

Once you confirm it can, you then need to run the numbers and see what the payback is. It will help but not by a huge amount..... it will save you the difference between day and night rate (~8c/kWh) not the full cost of day rates and you will only be able to do it during the winter months as it will be full on its own from the panels during the summer.

wexfordman2 wrote: »

The other thing, is if I am not borrowing to pay for it, and I had the money for the battery sitting in the bank, would it not be earning more for me as a battery than as a deposit ?

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how good you are with your "investments".
I'll let the finance gurus answer that one.

There is, I suppose, the fact that you will be reducing your monthly net pay outgoings. Im not sure thats a good enough reason to go for it though.

KCross · 24-08-2018 3:14pm

unkel wrote: »

You have PV, so that was before the subsidies came in? What were you quoted and how was it broken down in material and labour?

Nope, sorry for misleading, I'm talking about quotes I've got since the grant was announced. I'm considering PV but haven't decided yet but I have made up my mind that batteries make no sense today.

unkel · 24-08-2018 3:28pm

Mind sharing the breakdown of the quote in parts (detailed), labour and VAT, or did they just give you a bottom line figure?

KCross · 24-08-2018 3:34pm

unkel wrote: »

Mind sharing the breakdown of the quote in parts (detailed), labour and VAT, or did they just give you a bottom line figure?

I have the breakdown. There is a lot of copy/paste required to get those into a boards post! I'll see what I can do later.

AlmightyCushion · 24-08-2018 3:46pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

The other thing, is if I am not borrowing to pay for it, and I had the money for the battery sitting in the bank, would it not be earning more for me as a battery than as a deposit ?

If you still have a mortgage, then you would be essentially borrowing the money at what ever your mortgage rate is by not paying down your mortgage instead of installing the battery/PV system.

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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