Paying for sex

mr_fegelien · 20-10-2019 6:27pm #1

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

KaneToad · 20-10-2019 6:29pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

The danger is that those selling are not doing so freely. But I'm sure you knew that already.

gwalk · 20-10-2019 6:31pm

Ah jaysis

Will we all have a whip around and get Fegs a brass?

Poor lad is obviously frustrated with these scutter threads

Gwynplaine · 20-10-2019 6:33pm

Blueballs

touts · 20-10-2019 6:33pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

Between two (or more) consenting adults willingly entering into the transaction then fair enough. However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation. Sure people can point to a few escorts who are happy to do it and are even in the media promoting their latest book or blog. However that's like saying my grandfather smoked 50 a day and lived to be 100. There are always exceptions but the exception of the few doesn't override the harm done to the majority. So for the greater good it is outlawed.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-10-2019 6:37pm

Aitana Limited Cougar wrote: »

Whether they realise it or not, most men are paying for sex in one form or another.

Lol. Speak for yourself. Other people can have healthy relationships based on love, respect and commitment. But you can have a paid-for partner if you want.

italodisco · 20-10-2019 6:37pm

Would have been against it until got married and my wife went from absolute sex devil to non interested selfish cow.

If an escort is legitimately independent etc I see no wrong.

I do everything for my wife and kid, everything. I get nothing in return. I don't cheat, I've had a zillion opportunities and said no. I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

Atlantic Dawn · 20-10-2019 6:38pm

italodisco wrote: »

Would have been against it until got married and my wife went from absolute sex devil to non interested selfish cow.

If an escort is legitimately independent etc I see no wrong.

I do everything for my wife and kid, everything. I get nothing in return. I don't cheat, I've had a zillion opportunities and said no. I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

Why would you look for another married women to potentially destroy her marriage?

jaxxx · 20-10-2019 6:39pm

Nosey busy bodies and "do gooders" who think it's their right to tell everyone else what they should or shouldn't do with their lives.

That aside, there are two factors to consider: those who are forced and trafficked against their will, and those that actually choose to have sex for money (many people refuse to believe that the latter even exists). As is normal fashion, the government reacted with ye old hammer of heavy handed tactics, and it's failed spectacularly. In the 2 plus years since the purchase of sex in this country was made illegal, there has only been a mere handful of arrests. In turn they've ended up failing both those who are forced into sexual slavery, as well as those who are doing so of their own free will. There was an article going back some months back that stated violence against sex workers had increased dramatically since the law change. Sex workers themselves have been campaigning for full decriminalisation for years, only to have their voices silenced by the powers that be. How can silencing the sex workers do anything for their own rights?

There are those forced and trafficked against their will, and those that willingly choose to sell sex. They cannot be dealt with in the same way, and it's about time the government copped onto that. Regarding those who choose sex work, whatever your thoughts are in relation to it, at the end of the day it's consensual sex between two people, the only difference is that money's involved. Making something illegal rarely makes it fully disappear. So make it safer instead.

jaxxx · 20-10-2019 6:55pm

touts wrote: »

Between two (or more) consenting adults willingly entering into the transaction then fair enough. However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation. Sure people can point to a few escorts who are happy to do it and are even in the media promoting their latest book or blog. However that's like saying my grandfather smoked 50 a day and lived to be 100. There are always exceptions but the exception of the few doesn't override the harm done to the majority. So for the greater good it is outlawed.

Based on what facts? How do you know the majority are forced and not the other way around? Maybe you're right, I don't know, but I always withhold the final decision until I know the fact. And I certainly wouldn't believe a single word that comes out of the mouths of Ruhama that's for damn sure. As far as I'm concerned, they only care about getting their funding and care even less IF AT ALL about the people they claim to try and help. And I base that solely on the interviews and articles written by them over the last couple of years. As I said in my above post, the sex workers themselves are the ones that should be listened to, and yet they're the ones not being listened to?? How does that make sense?

HappyAsLarE · 20-10-2019 7:14pm

If you’re not the following:
Ronaldo
Clooney
Pitt

You’re most likely paying for sex.

BDI · 20-10-2019 7:40pm

If men control the money.
If they can pay for the sex.
Nobody will marry Norma.
All the Norma’s of the world are scared that these men won’t settle for them.

daveorourke77 · 20-10-2019 7:48pm

I've never paid for sex.

However, I dont see why it shouldn't be treated as a normal cash transaction between two adults as long as there is no criminal component.

Prostitution should definitely be legalised.

daveorourke77 · 20-10-2019 7:49pm

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

If you’re not the following:
Ronaldo
Clooney
Pitt

You’re most likely paying for sex.

I'm not and I'm not.

tea and coffee · 20-10-2019 7:51pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

I really couldn't begin to equate sex with food, water and shelter on a hierarchy of needs....

Guy:Incognito · 20-10-2019 7:51pm

touts wrote: »

Between two (or more) consenting adults willingly entering into the transaction then fair enough. However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation. Sure people can point to a few escorts who are happy to do it and are even in the media promoting their latest book or blog. However that's like saying my grandfather smoked 50 a day and lived to be 100. There are always exceptions but the exception of the few doesn't override the harm done to the majority. So for the greater good it is outlawed.

So hows the outlawing of it working out for these people? Is it making it easier or harder for the (predominantly) women in the trade?

whisky_galore · 20-10-2019 7:53pm

One sex please.

Church on Tuesday · 20-10-2019 8:13pm

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

If you’re not the following:
Ronaldo
Clooney
Pitt

You’re most likely paying for sex.

He has.

Dr. Bre · 20-10-2019 8:15pm

Praying for sex more like..

hatrickpatrick · 20-10-2019 8:18pm

It's very simple, a large part of society still views sex as something with some kind of spiritual or metaphysical significance, as opposed to those of us who simply view it as something to be considered everyday and mundane. The former group attach all kinds of cultural rules of right and wrong to sexual actions taken between consenting adults, the latter do not. At the moment, the former dominate mainstream politics from various angles. It remains to be seen how long this will remain the case, I for one hope that that ideology becomes an archaic memory sooner rather than later. But obviously that's just my opinion.

elperello · 20-10-2019 8:18pm

BDI wrote: »

If men control the money.
If they can pay for the sex.
Nobody will marry Norma.
All the Norma’s of the world are scared that these men won’t settle for them.

Would that include this Norma?

https://medium.com/the-nonfiction-zone/18-fascinating-facts-about-marilyn-monroe-f074ccd76f2b

dotsman · 20-10-2019 8:23pm

touts wrote: »

However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation.

What kind of bull**** statement is that??????

super_furry · 20-10-2019 8:26pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter

By who? How many people die because they go a week without getting the ride?

Panthro · 20-10-2019 8:34pm

super_furry wrote: »

By who? How many people die because they go a week without getting the ride?

It's a well known fhact that's there's people up and down the country dropping dead every day on Irish streets because they've gone over a week without making the beast with two backs with someone.
It's epidemic at this stage.

Poor non riding bastards.

Galwayguy35 · 20-10-2019 8:39pm

Seems to work well in Holland where it's legal and the police keep an eye on things to make sure nobody is being forced to do anything they aren't comfortable with.

We will probably have to wait a few years here before it is on the table for discussion though because the spineless TDs here will just ignore it even though some politicians, judges and the clergy have all been going to prostitutes for years.

20-10-2019 8:40pm

touts wrote: »

or are doing it purely out of desperation

You could quite literally say that about every job, everywhere. Nobody works in the €2 Shop because they've always wanted to. It's to pay the bills and keep food on the table.

BDI · 20-10-2019 11:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You could quite literally say that about every job, everywhere. Nobody works in the €2 Shop because they've always wanted to. It's to pay the bills and keep food on the table.

Exactly, you would get more respect on the game than you would working in retail

ToddyDoody · 20-10-2019 11:33pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

How much are you offering?

20-10-2019 11:36pm

BDI wrote: »

Exactly, you would get more respect on the game than you would working in retail

Give me a break

juneg · 20-10-2019 11:41pm

tea and coffee wrote: »

I really couldn't begin to equate sex with food, water and shelter on a hierarchy of needs....

You forgot wifi

Airyfairy12 · 20-10-2019 11:50pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's very simple, a large part of society still views sex as something with some kind of spiritual or metaphysical significance, as opposed to those of us who simply view it as something to be considered everyday and mundane. The former group attach all kinds of cultural rules of right and wrong to sexual actions taken between consenting adults, the latter do not. At the moment, the former dominate mainstream politics from various angles. It remains to be seen how long this will remain the case, I for one hope that that ideology becomes an archaic memory sooner rather than later. But obviously that's just my opinion.

Bit presumptuous.

I dont attach any spiritual or metaphysical significance to sex but feel that the buying and selling of sex commodifies people.
The main reason im against it is because I feel its dehumanizing.
You have no way of knowing if the sex worker wants to be there or not, if theyre being forced into it or the circumstances that led them into having paid sex with you.
It just feels like people who buy sex have a total disregard for the wellbeing of another person while using a vulnerable person to satisfy their sexual needs.

Sex to you may be a mundane act like eating but to most people it's intimate. If it was considered so mundane things like rape and sexual assault wouldnt be illegal.

Statistics on sex workers show that theyre extremely vulnerable to mental health issues, addiction, self harm and suicide.

It's like an abuse of another person, they may be willing to engage in the sex act for your money but you dont know if they want to engage in that act.

Would you not prefare to have sex with someone who actually likes you and wants to be there with you over someone who may be repulsed by you but has to be polite and give you what you want?

It just seems a bit f'ed up.

That said, if someone genuinely wants to be sex a worker and it doesn't bother them who they sleep with or what they do then fair play, they can do what they want but unfortunately that's not always how it works.

Guy:Incognito · 20-10-2019 11:55pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

.

I dont attach any spiritual or metaphysical significance to sex but feel that the buying and selling of sex commodifies people.
The main reason im against it is because I feel its very dehumanizing. .

The simple answer to that is to not involve yourself with the I industry so. I don't see why that should make you want to stop others doing it if they want though

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

.
You have no way of knowing if the sex worker wants to be there or not, if theyre being forced into it or the circumstances that led them into having paid sex with you.
.

Not when it's illegal and underground you don't. There should be legal brothels where it's safe and regulated.

BDI · 20-10-2019 11:56pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Give me a break

You can have a 15 minute one and if you clock back in one second after 15 minutes you are in trouble.

Airyfairy12 · 21-10-2019 12:03am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The simple answer to that is to not involve yourself with the I industry so. I don't see why that should make you want to stop others doing it if they want though

Not when it's illegal and underground you don't. There should be legal brothels where it's safe and regulated.

Legal brothels in Amsterdam have over 1000 trafficked women,
vulnerable women from poor countries taken to Amsterdam under the promise of jobs in childcare and waitressing or promised careers as dancers and models who are then forced into prostitution.
Legalisation and regulation doesn't stop trafficking.

21-10-2019 12:17am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Seems to work well in Holland where it's legal and the police keep an eye on things to make sure nobody is being forced to do anything they aren't comfortable with.

We will probably have to wait a few years here before it is on the table for discussion though because the spineless TDs here will just ignore it even though some politicians, judges and the clergy have all been going to prostitutes for years.

Not true at all.
There are hundreds of not thousands of trafficked sex workers in Holland.
Like the same as smoking in a cafe is legal, but where does the weed come from? It's from drug dealers, illegal.
There are many many many women working in Holland as sex workers who are there against their will.
So just imagine how many are working in other countries, where that kind of thing is illegal,
Think about it.

Airyfairy12 · 21-10-2019 12:19am

Bullet To The Head? wrote: »

All seems a bit grim. Having to actually pay a woman to touch you...and if she' actually willing to trade her pussy then she's an even bigger **** up than the johns.

But hey, never say never. I may have to start paying to play myself.

Why is she worse? 9 times out of 10 she's in the vulnerable situation with less choices and autonomy.

Anyone thats been persistently come on to or gotten off with someone they don't find attractive knows how gross it can feel. I cant imagine what it must be like for a poor vulnerable trafficked woman that has to act pleased at a load of sleazy strange men night after night. It must be soul destroying. What's even worse is being a contributor to that.
How could you actually live with yourself?

Like if the sex worker actually wants to be there and enjoys the work they do, thats completely fine for both to engage in but its the not knowing.
Is your 5 minutes or hour of sexual satisfaction really worth more than the mental, emotional and physical well being of another person?

Its lacking in all empathy and basic human decency.

I lose all respect for men when I hear theyve bought sex.

Airyfairy12 · 21-10-2019 12:28am

Bullet To The Head? wrote: »

Yeah feel bad for the ones who are forced, but the ones who are willingly there? I may be a total failure in life but at least I'm not selling my ass.

But hey, you're a woman. What could you possibly know what it's like to be an outcast man?

An outcast man?
Youre as entitled to sex as much as I am and im not entitled to sex at all. If you feel like an outcast maybe have a good look at yourself and your mindset and work on self improvement.

Genuinely, if someone wants to sell sex I dont see any problem with it. As long as their an adult, safe and not hurting anyone, its their body and they can do what they please.

Peter Flynt · 21-10-2019 12:38am

italodisco wrote: »

I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

You should have kept your mouth shut and just shagged the other married woman.

khaldrogo · 21-10-2019 12:40am

I do my job out if desperation......I'm desperately trying to keep up with my bills

touts wrote: »

Between two (or more) consenting adults willingly entering into the transaction then fair enough. However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation. Sure people can point to a few escorts who are happy to do it and are even in the media promoting their latest book or blog. However that's like saying my grandfather smoked 50 a day and lived to be 100. There are always exceptions but the exception of the few doesn't override the harm done to the majority. So for the greater good it is outlawed.

khaldrogo · 21-10-2019 12:41am

italodisco wrote: »

Would have been against it until got married and my wife went from absolute sex devil to non interested selfish cow.

If an escort is legitimately independent etc I see no wrong.

I do everything for my wife and kid, everything. I get nothing in return. I don't cheat, I've had a zillion opportunities and said no. I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

Leave her ffs!!!

khaldrogo · 21-10-2019 12:43am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why would you look for another married women to potentially destroy her marriage?

If she is in a dead bedroom through no choice of her own then her husband destroyed the marriage already

Airyfairy12 · 21-10-2019 12:46am

khaldrogo wrote: »

I do my job out if desperation......I'm desperately trying to keep up with my bills

It's not the same thing at all.
We all have to make a living but in our jobs we have rights, we have to respect the rights of others we work with and they have to respect our rights.
This includes things like bullying and sexual harassment.

Sex workers, particularly trafficked sex workers, don't have the same rights afforded to them. Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

I dont know how you can compare a normal job in a shop or office to the work of a sex worker.

Bit of a twisted comparison tbh.

whisky_galore · 21-10-2019 12:50am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Legal brothels in Amsterdam have over 1000 trafficked women,
vulnerable women from poor countries taken to Amsterdam under the promise of jobs in childcare and waitressing or promised careers as dancers and models who are then forced into prostitution.
Legalisation and regulation doesn't stop trafficking.

Neither does making it illegal.
What is your solution?

Peter Flynt · 21-10-2019 12:52am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

:rolleyes:

Anymore slogans or soundbites?

Believe it or not in countries where prostitution is legalised (Germany, Holland) the person selling sex is treated as a normal member of society providing a service.

They are subsequently taxed and protected by the relevant policing authorities.

It may go against your morals but some people have no problem having sex with another person and getting paid for it. They're not raped because that is a criminal offense liable to prosecution with many years in jail.

khaldrogo · 21-10-2019 12:53am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

It's not the same thing at all.
We all have to make a living but in our jobs we have rights, we have to respect the rights of others we work with and they have to respect our rights.
This includes things like bullying and sexual harassment.

Sex workers, particularly trafficked sex workers, don't have the same rights afforded to them. Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

I dont know how you can compare a normal job in a shop or office to the work of a sex worker.

Bit of a twisted comparison tbh.

It would depend on the type of sex worker , of which there are 2 > the trafficed ones(your favs) and the independent ones.
An independent sex worker who enjoys her job and has no pimp could be earning 100k a year. These women don't want your pity. They are happy and well paid and can choose who they sleep with and what they do.

ToddyDoody · 21-10-2019 12:54am

Would €100 be a reasonable going rate?

Loafing Oaf · 21-10-2019 12:56am

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

If you’re not the following:
Ronaldo
Clooney
Pitt

You’re most likely paying for sex.

Reminds me of the old line (by Woody Allen?)
Have you ever paid for sex?
Only emotionally

JupiterKid · 21-10-2019 1:03am

Prostitution, like drugs, should be legalized, taxed and regulated. This Victorian BS about “vice” and “morals” needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. These days it is dressed up as feminist disapproval of women being “exploited” by the “patriarchy.”

Yes, trafficking and coercion of women in the sex industry exists and there is also the issue of women exploited in the porn industry, and these problems need to be tacked effectively - but there are also many in these industries who are there by choice. The reality of the sex industry is much more complex and nuanced than high horse black and white ideological stances. It is also one of the biggest industries on the planet - worth tens of € billions in revenue per annum. So it is not going away. Making it illegal only keeps it underground and solves nothing. Nothing.

And as a gay man myself, what do the outraged moralists here have to say about gay and bisexual men willingly doing escort work or in the gay porn industry? Should they, too, be protected from themselves?

This tired narrative that all women in the sex industry are innocent victims of exploitation and abuse does nothing to help real victims of abuse, and only perpetuates the myth that women cannot willingly work in the sex industry of their own free will.

gctest50 · 21-10-2019 2:01am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

.......

Sex workers, particularly trafficked sex workers, don't have the same rights afforded to them. Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

........

Many there have been air hostesses, nurses and all sorts of things. Many pay tax ( inb4 vat-at-the-point-of-entry )

It was legalised to try centralise it and reduce incidents

It's this filthy christian recruiting young people to "save" others :

Sara Lous, 29, Exxpose :

I grew up in a village near Rotterdam with my brother and four sisters.

Things were comfortable, my mum was a nurse and my dad had his own aluminium business.

They’re both Christians and that’s how I was raised, I still go to church and I’m married

In the Netherlands it’s illegal to put puppies in a pet shop window because we believe it’s cruel – and yet we put our young women behind a window and pretend it’s normal.

Tourists can walk around the Red Light District gawping at them without paying any money at all – those ladies are a tourist attraction and a lot of people get to see them in their underwear for free.

Our campaign is staffed by volunteers, mostly young people

. We see too much harm going on, too much human trafficking and we object to the normalisation of the buying of sex.

It isn’t about a woman’s right to sell sex. Women should be free to do what they want with their bodies - I can totally understand why people do it and I think it’s a really brave decision to sell sex.

I can totally imagine doing that.

Yer Da sells Avon · 21-10-2019 2:21am

Deleted User wrote: »

You could quite literally say that about every job, everywhere. Nobody works in the €2 Shop because they've always wanted to. It's to pay the bills and keep food on the table.

I worked in a €2 Shop years ago, and I'll say one thing about it:

While it wasn't the most enjoyable or fulfilling job I ever had, nobody ever put their dick in me.

gctest50 · 21-10-2019 2:25am

And what if some woman came in and asked you to say ....... show her the stockroom ?

Paying for sex

Comments