Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

Del.Monte wrote: »

I appreciate what you're saying but it's unrealistic to expect everywhere to be accessible to everybody nice and all as that might be. I wouldn't expect to be able to visit the top of Mt.Everest if I was in a wheelchair, on crutches or pushing a pram. Extreme I know but it's a valid point of view in my opinion.

A Norman castle isn't Mount Everest. It's a Norman castle.



And the extreme efforts that owners and architects go through to make any changes to protected structures like that ensure that our heritage is well protected. And the best protection that we can give these buildings is to ensure they are well used by the widest possible audience.


Personally, I've never heard of a Norman castle with a lift, but it can be done sensitively without damaging the underlying structure and in a way that can be reversed if required, then bring it on. When you have a family member in a wheelchair or using a walking frame, you'll be glad of it.

Is this "Greenway" not going to be more of a trail than a say Great Western or Waterford style Greenway?

[QUOTE=Meanwhile more funding allocated to the Cliften greenway and a nice link being done between Boyle and Lough Key. Boyle could be a real winner out of that.
Lots of other walking, cycling and mountain biking funding upgrades in the link below.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1120/1012115-greenway/[/QUOTE]

Lough Key - Boyle great idea, road wide with hard shoulder but 100 kph speed limit so not one you'd take kids on. Now when IR are providing 8 bike spaces on trains as per EU Parliament decision last week the icing wil be on the cake!

blueballfc wrote: »

Royal Canal and Grand canal to connect at Kilbeggan.
Delighted this got funded
https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/lifestyle/348694/500-000-funding-announced-for-midlands-greenway-project.html

Yeeay...Networks! Waterways equivalent of From sea to shining sea"!

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Yeeay...Networks! Waterways equivalent of From sea to shining sea"!

and more greenway news on Boyneside Trail facebook page
"Meath County Council working with Fingal to develop Greenway from Newbridge House Donabate to Newgrange. Report by Hubert Murphy Drogheda Indo. Planning application imminent on Maiden Tower, Mornington to Drogheda. Game changer for Boyne Valley tourism development."

Qrt wrote: »

Which canal? And which opposition? I always wonder why these get so much criticism half the time.

Barrow Navigation Canal, Olivia O' Leary who is from Borris objected strongly to the towpath being made suitable for cycling as well as walking. Something got to do with peace ad quiet and wild-life and wanting to keep the current surface and not widen the path if I remember rightly. Planning Permission was refused. It was Waterways Ireland who wanted to develop it

cantalach wrote: »

Is it 8 per train or per carriage? If it's the former then this isn't much of a win seeing as IR already has spaces for, what is it, six bikes per train?

It must be per train as there's not enough space for 8 or even 2 per carriage.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thing is its not just cycling

It's wheelchair users
It's prams
It's those with mobility issues

A level surface is exactly what you need to ensure full social inclusion of all community members

. . . . But do all paths everywhere have to be to that standard?
I used to walk a lot of forest tracks, totally unsuited to anything other than foot, or something like the old Kenmare road... Again it's a hiking/walking track,
I'm not against greenways, and think where a path is being newly built and is practical to make it a greenway then great but theres room for difference too..

cantalach wrote: »

Is it 8 per train or per carriage? If it's the former then this isn't much of a win seeing as IR already has spaces for, what is it, six bikes per train?

True 8 wouldn't equal whats available on trains in many European countries but it would be a big improvement on 2. People have often failed to book their bikes on a train to Westport or Waterford Greenways and anyone doing a Sportive away from their home base has to have a car to get there & Mammy/Daddy can only take one child on a bike trip. Even the 2 available spaces often have luggage piled in them.

Cork trains take bikes in a separate bike-carriage like in days of old so better options there.

If we are developing all the Greenways primarily to attract tourism and revenue., (And DTASS does classify the funding under Tourism) we'd want to get with the bike transport. Yes, hire is great but some people will want to bring their own but wont necessarily want to cycle al the way form the port or airport or pay to bring a car too or hire one to get the bike from Dublin or Rosslare to Kerry/Mayo etc.

Some airports abroad provide facilities to make it easy to assemble and pump a bike again after a flight so something else we'd need to look at

They should also get the unfinished hazelhatch to lucan section done.. Real bad that this was not done already, it would have brought celbridge onto the grand canal..

Great, now lets see which county is ambituous enough to link both canal greenways somewhere in midlands.. Edenderry to enfield partially along old alignment.. OR Tullamore, kilbeggan mullingar via old canal and brosna river..

Maybe the Athlone section goes no further west and cuts south to shannon harbour.. A circular route like this could be just as valuable as full cross country route.. it links up real commuting towns and introduces a tourist product to areas that do not have it. The value of a weekend round trip would be a great package to sell too.

From https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/urdf_-_2019_funding_allocations_0.pdf


Some preliminary funding for Santry River Greenway in Dublin


Dún Laoghaire
-
Rathdown County
Council
Cherrywood Public
Parks, Greenways &
Attenuation
Dublin
EMRA
PR
€870,000.00

Mayo County
Council
Castlebar Urban
Greenway Link
Mayo
NWRA
CD
€938,000.00


Also


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greenway-plan-would-harm-wildlife-and-conservation-58jn3swpd

A greenway in Co Wexford that was expected to bring in 275,000 visitors a year has been refused planning permission over its potential impact on conservation sites and wildlife.
The 10.7km cycling and pedestrian coastal route between Ferrybank in Wexford town and Culleton’s Gap near Curracloe was expected to become a major visitor attraction in the southeast.
The project, which included a further 4.9km of looped trails at each end of the route, was one of four greenways the county council planned to develop over the next five years. It was hoped the initiative would give a €40 million boost to the local economy.

mr spuckler wrote: »

wasn't that planning refused a while ago? I thought I read something about it a few weeks back, certainly something related to a greenway to Curracloe being refused / shelved.

Sorry, yes, it was a few weeks ago. I was away for a while and missed the previous posts

Greaney wrote: »

A lot of folk in both Tuam and Athenry (and I mean a lot) don't agree it should be turned into a greenway at the cost of future rail development.

Have you any numbers for this "lot"? Or any source for those numbers?

A lot of people in Tuam do agree that the line should be turned into a Greenway - several thousand in fact.

serfboard wrote: »

Have you any numbers for this "lot"? Or any source for those numbers?

A lot of people in Tuam do agree that the line should be turned into a Greenway - several thousand in fact.

I understand what you're saying, and due to the nature of the campaign only those further along the track in Mayo have been able to comment without hassle

1) The alternative green-way meeting that took place prior to this campaign before the summer had a majority who both wanted a greenway but were also very open to looking at all viable possibilities. Furthermore we had thought that linking to the Eurovelo may be a prudent move.

2) I've been working with and coming across a few people from Tuam on various projects. We've spoke about this, and on more than one occasion they've siad they'd like the train, but feel they can't say anything or else they'll be lynched.

3) There are concerns among folk with disabilities & the elderly (some are members of actual advocacy groups for the disabled, and those who've dared to speak up on the quiet man greenway page) who think that public transport infrastructure that effects them will be once again put to the back of the queue.

l hope you'll understand if i don't name names. There's been some real nastiness in the campaign and folk who've stuck their head above the parapet have gotten stung. Finally, I would add that we also have people from Claremorris who commute to Galway to work and their chamber of commerce would like to see the line re-opened. A train line or green way has to go somewhere. Our communities are not isolated entities and this effects more than just Tuam and Athenry.

It has been my experience, that one needs an option 'b' and 'c' when taking a project to completion to be confident of success

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is not the population to warrant a train service.

It would not get enough passengers to fill a single carriage on a regular commuter basis. Even if it went from Tuam to Galway city centre, it would not compete with a bus/coach service going the same way, either with the bus/coach using the M17 or the old N17 via Claregalway. The extra time for the train in comparison to a bus/coach service would not compete and that is before the fares required to just pay the running cost is taken into account.

It will never happen.

Yes, I understand your argument but from what I can gather there are over 20 buses, per day, both ways, navigating Galways gridlock. As I've said, Tuam has the second highest commuter numbers according to the last census and these number will change, and grow, but this isn't just about Tuam. Oranmore's station car park is at capacity.

We don't have a crystal ball and we need to plan for the future. Figures on the first part of the Western rail corridor are ahead of forecasts apparently, but others are saying it's a failure...
The Times

The Connaught Tribune
Look, maybe I'm bias. You see, I couldn't drive till my 30's and indeed because of that, I cycle a fair bit, so I had to rely on public transport a lot. There are alternatives to the rail for a greenway but they don't even get aired because everyone's stuck on one way of doing it and they're entrenched.

Greaney wrote: »

.... I believe the projects that qualify have to have their planning permission approved by March 31st 2019. I'm going to try and find a link to that because it would be prudent of our politicians who are calling for a greenway to ask the criteria be extended to include 'feasibility studies' which I dont' think it does at the moment. So I would brace myself for the Quietman greenway having a stumble with that issue. The application is not explicit in this matter but does presume planning is forthcoming. Meanwhile, I would suggest everyone take a look at the application form, it's not too difficult a read and gives you an idea of what they'd like to see the greenway deliver.

Afaik the €53 is over a number of years so only the 1st tranche will have to be ready to go to planing by March. Yes, I have read the application material and yes it is very detailed. And yes, I wondered too re the Quiet Man Feasibility study qualifying but just presumed they knew what they were doing.

You are coming across as reasonable and sincere and I absolutely love train travel but sadly I don't think you're right re the feasibility of the Claremorris Galway line. The 2012 feasibility study didn't make the case for the reopening so not sure what has changed. I dont think the 20 buses make the case either as presumably a lot of commuters are not going into Galway city centre for work but to the industrial estates, or Galway Clinic, Merlin Park. Possibly the NUIG ad UCHG staff/students could walk/bus from the station. Unless the rest took ****tle buses form Oranmore I suppose. But heavy rail is very expensive and the FF/Green Government has been burned by ad is still hearing re Ennis - Athenry. If Dublin Navan hasn't opened, then Claremorris - Galway wont

One aspect of your post genuinely confuses me though. Afaik the line closed in 1976 and the Greenway campaign is relatively new so it certainly wasn't the Greenway campaign that blocked the train line form reopening. Surely it was the other way around?, Seán Canney's insistence on the feasibility study (even though it was only 4 years since the previous review) as the price of his support for supporting the Gov meant that any plans for a Greenway were delayed . I have no idea why the tender for the study only went out recently but looks now as if both feasibility studies will happen in 2019, (If Greenway one approved)

Galway Cycling Campaign says Greenway strategy appears to be inherently unlawful

https://connachttribune.ie/galway-cycling-campaign-says-greenway-strategy-is-inherently-unlawful/

the full article is here:
http://www.galwaycycling.org/governments-new-e53-million-greenway-strategy-appears-to-be-inherently-unlawful/