Booing the knee Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP

Ash.J.Williams · 08-06-2021 11:57pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

I guess people feel racism exists outside America too

yosser hughes · 08-06-2021 11:57pm

Has any journalist canvassed the opinions of supporters that are booing and their reasons for doing so?

Housefree · 08-06-2021 11:59pm

People are sick of US politics happening over here, they had a BLM protest outside a Garda station, a mostly unarmed force. In what world does that make sense?

08-06-2021 11:59pm

BPKS wrote: »

Exactly. Raheen Sterling taking the lead on this a year ago while his employers were killing thousands of innocent people in Yemen was the ultimate in irony.

Is that irony?

bfa1509 · 08-06-2021 11:59pm

banie01 wrote: »

What were the stupid fúckers even thinking trying to spark a change.

You talk as if racism is a rampant systemic issue, rather than the fragmented, isolated incidents that it more closely resembles.

What measures do you think should be introduced that would satisfy the change you think they are fighting for?

Billy Mays · 09-06-2021 12:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

That's his opinion.

I think he is wrong.

Quelle surprise

Acosta · 09-06-2021 12:01am

banie01 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that taking the knee is a gesture in support of radical terrorism?
I mean really and honestly?

Do you believe it is in any way appropriate to denigrate people trying to make a point in a peaceful and dignified manner?

Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick was wrong?
That the players in the UK and Europe who are still choosing to take a knee are wrong?
That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

You're trying to reason with a guy that thinks the UK border force should gun down migrants attempting to cross the English Channel illegally.

09-06-2021 12:02am

extra gravy wrote: »

Of course you do. The first England game is on Sunday, you can boo along to your heart's content.

Deleted User wrote: »

I personally wouldn't boo it.

But I can see why people are rebelling against BLM.

I honestly think it's a bit mean of you to purposely try to frame me as a racist when I explicitly stated the opposite and have absolutely nothing but distain for actual racism.

I literally said I wouldn't boo it, but can see why people may.

Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't make me a bad person or someone you should try to frame as some racist.

It's dishonest.

PalLimerick · 09-06-2021 12:03am

People can take a knee if they so wish but People are free to boo them if they wish also.

I wouldn't take a knee for BLM, which I believe is a radical organisation.

banie01 · 09-06-2021 12:08am

bfa1509 wrote: »

You talk as if racism is a rampant systemic issue, rather than the fragmented, isolated incidents that it more closely resembles.

What measures do you think should be introduced that would satisfy the change you think they are fighting for?

All informed sources in the UK are of the opinion that systemic racism is a problem and has societal impact.

Start with Barnado's opinion and see if it shapes any opinion of your own.
https://www.barnardos.org.uk/blog/how-systemic-racism-affects-young-people-uk

Downing St did publish a report last month that opined that systemic racism doesn't exist in the UK.
BoJo's race adviser resigned shortly afterwards and the report itself has been widely panned as a whitewash.

Racism is fairly endemic in the UK, not so bad here I think but it's not something I've ever experienced in Ireland.
Can't say the same about the UK, but as soon as Muslims became the enemy de jure over there being Irish painted a lot less of a target on paddies.

Rikand · 09-06-2021 12:09am

Billy Mays wrote: »

This fella tying himself up in knots on booing the knee :pac: :pac:

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1401859424831119360?s=20

I dont know why anyone rings into that show with the opposing point of view to the presenter because all they do is get talked over and disrespected.

09-06-2021 12:10am

PalLimerick wrote: »

People can take a knee if they so wish but People are free to boo them if they wish also.

I wouldn't take a knee for BLM, which I believe is a radical organisation.

How about taking a knee to raise awareness of racism?

sydthebeat · 09-06-2021 12:11am

I'm not a racist, but.....

09-06-2021 12:12am

Billy Mays wrote: »

Black players getting racially abused online every time they make a mistake in a game is the norm now

According to some they should just suck it up and get on with it

I actually think it's getting worse. The more protesting the more trolls are reacting. Not sure what can be done. Social media companies do not give a fiddlers about anonymous troll accounts.

Bobblehats · 09-06-2021 12:12am

Colombia - Argentina underway. No knees given

Pawwed Rig · 09-06-2021 12:13am

6 wrote: »

How about taking a knee to raise awareness of racism?

You might as well wear a poppy for racism. It is symbolic act that means what it means. Poppies are for British soldiers and the knee is for BLM. They already had 'respect' and 'kick it out' to tackle racism. These seem to be sidelined now

MrMusician18 · 09-06-2021 12:13am

Rikand wrote: »

I dont know why anyone rings into that show with the opposing point of view to the presenter because all they do is get talked over and disrespected.

Hubris I suppose. I guess they think they can outsmart and outwit him. This is despite him being a professional that (I presume) has researchers helping him.

extra gravy · 09-06-2021 12:13am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly think it's a bit mean of you to purposely try to frame me as a racist when I explicitly stated the opposite and have absolutely nothing but distain for actual racism.

I literally said I wouldn't boo it, but can see why people may.

Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't make me a bad person or someone you should try to frame as some racist.

It's dishonest.

You know what's dishonest? Pushing an agenda that this is about BLM when it clearly isn't. I don't believe a word you say so I'll disregard the rest of the post.

Strazdas · 09-06-2021 12:15am

PalLimerick wrote: »

People can take a knee if they so wish but People are free to boo them if they wish also.

I wouldn't take a knee for BLM, which I believe is a radical organisation.

People are not taking a knee "for BLM". It's a gesture against racism in football. All of the talk about it being a show of support for 'a Marxist organisation' is completely missing the point.

BLM is not even an actual organisation and doesn't have members. It can best be described as a popular international movement that embraces many different groups and millions of individuals.

09-06-2021 12:21am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You might as well wear a poppy for racism. It is symbolic act that means what it means. Poppies are for British soldiers and the knee is for BLM. They already had 'respect' and 'kick it out' to tackle racism. These seem to be sidelined now

If players want to highlight racism who am I or you to judge. Doesn't bother me in the slightest if players go down on a knee for a few seconds.

Find it weird that it actually bothers people.

09-06-2021 12:21am

extra gravy wrote: »

You know what's dishonest? Pushing an agenda that this is about BLM when it clearly isn't. I don't believe a word you say so I'll disregard the rest of the post.

Well when the boys started taking the knee, their jerseys were emblazoned with Black Lives Matter, there was a logo beside the score on the television screen stating Black Lives Matter and the commentators were wearing badges saying Black Lives Matter.

But no, I'm sure that was just a coincidence and now all players have suddenly decided after years of Kick it Out campaigning, that taking a knee is nowt to do with BLM and just an extension of being against racism in general. Nothing to do with Black Lives Matter

Mental gymnastics.

Bobblehats · 09-06-2021 12:24am

extra gravy wrote: »

You know what's dishonest? Pushing an agenda that this is about BLM when it clearly isn't. I don't believe a word you say so I'll disregard the rest of the post.

How can you claim that?!

John Doe1 · 09-06-2021 12:24am

I thought the hungarian team had the right idea tonight, just to point to the "respect" badge. It has no connotations to a certain Marxist extermist group in America and is a message of respect which is more all-encompassing than just Black Americans.

This might be a shock to a certain segment of people on this thread but black people can be incredibly racist as can Asian people as can white people.........

Strazdas · 09-06-2021 12:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well when the boys started taking the knee, their jerseys were emblazoned with Black Lives Matter, there was a logo beside the score on the television screen stating Black Lives Matter and the commentators were wearing badges saying Black Lives Matter.

But no, I'm sure that was just a coincidence and now all players have suddenly decided after years of Kick it Out campaigning, that taking a knee is nowt to do with BLM and just an extension of being against racism in general.

Mental gymnastics.

Are you suggesting their primary motivation is to support BLM and not take a stand against racism in football? To what end.....why would they be fixated on the BLM movement but not on racism?

dd973 · 09-06-2021 12:25am

Loads of England fans are obsessed with the PIRA, WW2, German Bombers, the Taliban, Ulster Loyalism.

What have any of the above got to do with the football team comprised of the XI best English players?

09-06-2021 12:25am

Bobblehats wrote: »

How can you claim that?!

Super easy, barely an inconvenience.

09-06-2021 12:28am

Strazdas wrote: »

Are you suggesting their primary motivation is to support BLM and not take a stand against racism in football? To what end.....why would they be fixated on the BLM movement but not on racism?

Yes.

I am suggesting that it is an extremely popular movement to be assocoated with at the moment, especially with sponsors. To be seen not to knee would be detrimental to the players brand, and the teams brand, such is the way the wind is blowing at the moment.

It is very much about posturing and very little about trying to enact change.

Pawwed Rig · 09-06-2021 12:28am

Strazdas wrote: »

Are you suggesting their primary motivation is to support BLM and not take a stand against racism in football? To what end.....why would they be fixated on the BLM movement but not on racism?

What do you think would happen if a non black player chose not to take a knee in an English premier league game or for the English national team?

blanch152 · 09-06-2021 12:28am

banie01 wrote: »

All informed sources in the UK are of the opinion that systemic racism is a problem and has societal impact.

Start with Barnado's opinion and see if it shapes any opinion of your own.
https://www.barnardos.org.uk/blog/how-systemic-racism-affects-young-people-uk

Downing St did publish a report last month that opined that systemic racism doesn't exist in the UK.
BoJo's race adviser resigned shortly afterwards and the report itself has been widely panned as a whitewash.

Racism is fairly endemic in the UK, not so bad here I think but it's not something I've ever experienced in Ireland.
Can't say the same about the UK, but as soon as Muslims became the enemy de jure over there being Irish painted a lot less of a target on paddies.

Fear of the other is always a dominant feature of societies built on exclusionary ideals, be they religious or nationalistic.

Inclusivity, rejecting territoriality and other similar concepts are the way forward.

nolivesmatter · 09-06-2021 12:29am

extra gravy wrote: »

You know what's dishonest? Pushing an agenda that this is about BLM when it clearly isn't. I don't believe a word you say so I'll disregard the rest of the post.

Simply googling BLM and 'Premier League' returns plenty of legitimate sources and footballer quotes emphasizing the link between taking the knee and BLM. You can't deny the connection between the two.

topmanamillion · 09-06-2021 12:30am

FIFA/UEFA have rules about politics and football being separate.
This kneeling and racial abuse from fans of players should both be punished.

It's a sport not a political pedestal. All these players have large audiences on social media and that's the perfect medium for them to express any political opinions they have.

The vast majority of people that attend football matches are there to enjoy the event. They don't go to racially abuse anyone nor do they go to watch footballers self indulge in the popular cause of the day.

Of course racial abuse does happen and unfortunately the governing bodies of football have been very weak and inconsistent in punishing clubs and fans for racial abuse of players.

It's a big issue in the likes of Russia and Italy where black players have been abused disgracefully by fans with clubs there receiving token fines when they should have been thrown out of European competitions and hit in their pocket until they were forced to enact real change.

UEFA have made such a mess of keeping politics out of football they routinely fine clubs when their fans display Palestinian flags but when players ignore the kick off whistle en masse there is nothing done about it.

09-06-2021 12:31am

blanch152 wrote: »

Fear of the other is always a dominant feature of societies built on exclusionary ideals, be they religious or nationalistic.

Inclusivity, rejecting territoriality and other similar concepts are the way forward.

Good for business too, am I right?

09-06-2021 12:31am

Strazdas wrote: »

Are you suggesting their primary motivation is to support BLM and not take a stand against racism in football? To what end.....why would they be fixated on the BLM movement but not on racism?

It seems to be the go to argument against the gesture.

Basically, people aren't willing to own their views.

I'd respect someone's opinion more if they admitted they didn't actually like racism being highlighted. However, you'll see people all over social media cowardly not owning their opinion.

Billy Mays · 09-06-2021 12:31am

England fans: "keep politics out of football"

Also England fans: "There were 10 German bombers in the air..."
"No surrender to the IRA..."

nolivesmatter · 09-06-2021 12:33am

Billy Mays wrote: »

England fans: "keep politics out of football"

Also England fans: "There were 10 German bombers in the air..."
"No surrender to the IRA..."

The IRA took many knees themselves back in the day.

John Doe1 · 09-06-2021 12:33am

In addition to my previous comment, taking the knee is just such an empty gesture and the only reason that this poltical gesture is the only one allowed in the game is that it benefits their brand and puts more money in their pockets.

Do you think your average slavic neo-nazi ultra is going to change their mind about all their preconceptions about race because Matt Doherty is taking a knee?:p

Strazdas · 09-06-2021 12:34am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

What do you think would happen if a non black player chose not to take a knee in an English premier league game or for the English national team?

Not that much I would say, especially if that player explained their reasons not to do so.

09-06-2021 12:35am

topmanamillion wrote: »

UEFA have made such a mess of keeping politics out of football they routinely fine clubs when their fans display Palestinian flags but when players ignore the kick off whistle en masse there is nothing done about it.

The banning of Palestinian flags, the racist hounding of McClean, the banning of other political activities makes all this just performative.

09-06-2021 12:36am

6 wrote: »

It seems to be the go to argument against the gesture.

Basically, people aren't willing to own their views.

I'd respect someone's opinion more if they admitted they didn't actually like racism being highlighted. However, you'll see people all over social media cowardly not owning their opinion.

It's that attitude that pretty much bullies people into taking the knee.

Racism can be highlighted and opposed, and has been highlighted and opposed without taking the gesture associate with Gorge Floyd protests and the horrible BLM movement.

Pawwed Rig · 09-06-2021 12:36am

Strazdas wrote: »

Not that much I would say, especially if that player explained their reasons not to do so.

Ever hear of James McClean?

MrMusician18 · 09-06-2021 12:38am

Strazdas wrote: »

Not that much I would say, especially if that player explained their reasons not to do so.

I dunno, they can be fairly intolerant over there if you refuse to wear the poppy.

dd973 · 09-06-2021 12:39am

Billy Mays wrote: »

England fans: "keep politics out of football"

Also England fans: "There were 10 German bombers in the air..."
"No surrender to the IRA..."

Went to the Friendly at Wembley back in May 2013, there were a group of London sounding England fans on the Met Tube line standing near me, I couldn't for the life of me believe how thick they were, it was truly next level thickness, the sort of dialogue and banter that makes you wonder 'Jesus, these guys were supposedly born and reared in an Alpha World City in a First World country?'.

Strazdas · 09-06-2021 12:39am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ever hear of James McClean?

The people booing McClean are the exact same ones booing the 'knee' gesture.

extra gravy · 09-06-2021 12:40am

Bobblehats wrote: »

How can you claim that?!

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1401188262937612306?s=1

I'm not claiming anything, it's been explained many times why they are doing it. The motives of those that continue to boo cannot be confused or explained away anymore.

09-06-2021 12:40am

Strazdas wrote: »

The people booing McClean are the exact same ones booing the 'knee' gesture.

the difference is the reaction. Wheres the official support for Mcclean.

MrMusician18 · 09-06-2021 12:41am

Strazdas wrote: »

The people booing McClean are the exact same ones booing the 'knee' gesture.

There is some overlap tbf but the poppy does have broader more respectable support too.

09-06-2021 12:44am

Strazdas wrote: »

The people booing McClean are the exact same ones booing the 'knee' gesture.

Exactly. England is full of those types of 'fans' tbh. They have a long history of it. Brexit supporters no doubt

AdrianG08 · 09-06-2021 12:44am

It's all a PR exercise at this stage. John Barnes articulates it best. Sky had him on a while back and applauded sky for their gesture but then proceeded to fillet them about how it was lip service.

Philanthropy and social justice causes are the new form of marketing pretty much, the likes of Sky pleading with people to 'kick it out' and 'we're all in' just smacks of token gestures.

Actually think it's better to let these racist morons be heard in public, better to hear them express themselves as fools then to have them contain it in silence as be presumed to be respectable.

Social media is a cesspit too, players want to be in a bubble of positivity. No excuse for racially abusing someone online, it's vile but these players want to flog their wares on it in peace that's the issue.

We are hearing non racial stuff, players crying over their mental health suffering because some lads in their bedrooms criticised their performance over zealously, good Lord. Get off social media if you cannot hack it. But they won't do that as they prefer to get paid 25k per Twitter post, and ideally would prefer to do it without the hassle.

Look at Tubridy, quit Twitter because of dogs abuse he gets. Until people agree to 'be kind to each other' in other words, blow smoke up his hole, he won't be back. That's the thin skin age we live in.

SupaCat95 · 09-06-2021 12:45am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

BLM is a radical reactionary group that participate in acts that could be described as terror (riots etc. In the US)

Its a bit like say you are in Sinn Fein but dont support the IRA.

Rothko · 09-06-2021 12:46am

Effects wrote: »

"Tell me you're racist, without telling me you're racist."

Shameful comment.

Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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Booing the knee Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP