Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

MrMusician18

I'm not really sure if this belongs more in the Soccer forum or elsewhere but as this has been happening recently as fans have returned to stadiums I'll place it here. It happened at the England game last week and at the Ireland game tonight. Listening to commentary it's generally describing this as outright racism from soccer supporters, but is it that simple? Others have been kinder to them describing it as push back against BLM and the like

Football has had long problems with racism but did genuinely seem to be getting on top of it up until maybe two three years ago. Where do they go from here do you think? Football will have to castigate its own supporters or drop the knee protest. I suspect that it's the latter that will happen.

Necro wrote: »

Multiple off topic posts deleted. I'll give one final warning and then I'll start handing out cards and bans like confetti - stop attacking other posters. If you cannot argue a point based on the content of someone's posts then don't bother making it.

Don't drag the thread off topic and stop firing around the racism accusation - if you have a problem with someone else's posting report it and leave it to the mods

Threadbanned Posters:
Tacitus Kilgore
Yakov P. Golyadkin
John Doe1
MrStuffins
MarkEadie
Faugheen

ypres5

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm not really sure if this belongs more in the Soccer forum or elsewhere but as this has been happening recently as fans have returned to stadiums I'll place it here. It happened at the England game last week and at the Ireland game tonight. Listening to commentary it's generally describing this as outright racism from soccer supporters, but is it that simple? Others have been kinder to them describing it as push back against BLM and the like

Football has had long problems with racism but did genuinely seem to be getting on top of it up until maybe two three years ago. Where do they go from here do you think? Football will have to castigate its own supporters or drop the knee protest. I suspect that it's the latter that will happen.

Anyone caught booing taking the knee should be issued a lifetime ban. It should be easier pick them out in a socially distanced stadium. If they've a problem with black players and colleagues fighting oppression then they'd best stay home.

Eric Cartman

Booing people disrespecting the anthem and the game for taking a knee to support a reactionary terror group is not racist.

MrMusician18

ypres5 wrote: »

Anyone caught booing taking the knee should be issued a lifetime ban. It should be easier pick them out in a socially distanced stadium. If they've a problem with black players and colleagues fighting oppression then they'd best stay home.

I imagine it is difficult to prove who is doing it from pictures alone when supporters have face coverings.

banie01

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Booing people disrespecting the anthem and the game for taking a knee to support a reactionary terror group is not racist.

Do you honestly believe that taking the knee is a gesture in support of radical terrorism?
I mean really and honestly?

Do you believe it is in any way appropriate to denigrate people trying to make a point in a peaceful and dignified manner?

Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick was wrong?
That the players in the UK and Europe who are still choosing to take a knee are wrong?
That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

extra gravy

Bloody Marxist footballers, whatever next!

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Booing people disrespecting the anthem and the game for taking a knee to support a reactionary terror group is not racist.

So people kneeling in silence during the anthem is disrespectful but booing during it isn't?

yosser hughes

Is there an end date for this taking a knee thing?

Eric Cartman

banie01 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that taking the knee is a gesture in support of radical terrorism?
I mean really and honestly?

Do you believe it is in any way appropriate to denigrate people trying to make a point in a peaceful and dignified manner?

Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick was wrong?
That the players in the UK and Europe who are still choosing to take a knee are wrong?
That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

BLM is a radical reactionary group that participate in acts that could be described as terror (riots etc. In the US)

Bringing politics into sport supporting that group is denigrating the sport

I do believe every player taking the knee outside the US is wrong, every player in the US I feel isnt choosing the best way to vent their frustrations.

MrMusician18

yosser hughes wrote: »

Is there an end date for this taking a knee thing?

If this continues to happen as fans return to games I suspect the end will come for this protest/gesture. The games authorities will have a hard job to paint it (the game) as inclusive while the booing keeps happening. Thus it will be dropped in favour of something else.

Billy Mays

This fella tying himself up in knots on booing the knee :pac: :pac:

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1401859424831119360?s=20

jam_mac_jam

Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

banie01

Eric Cartman wrote: »

BLM is a radical reactionary group that participate in acts that could be described as terror (riots etc. In the US)

Bringing politics into sport supporting that group is denigrating the sport

I do believe every player taking the knee outside the US is wrong, every player in the US I feel isnt choosing the best way to vent their frustrations.

The players kneeling have gone on record to say that their kneeling is not in support of BLM.
It is particularly for the English players an effort to highlight ongoing racism and inequality.

Bringing politics into sport is not denigrating the sport.
That's a ridiculous argument IMO.
Sport has since the days of the Romans been an engine for political change.
From the colloseum to the hippodrome and Byzantine riots onto suffragettes at horse races and protests at football games for any number of reasons.

Sport is where we feel at our most tribal, our sense of belonging is heightened and if that sense of tribe can be attached to social justice and equity?
Then more power to them!

I'd far rather someone kneeling on a pitch, than rioting in a stand.

Augme

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

They aren't taking a knee about American police issues. They are taking a knee about the problem of racism in society.

Why should black people and footballers who still receive racist abuse move on?

Racism is a massive problem. All you need to do is look at social media, especially of players of colour.

Quantum Erasure

I was saying 'Roo-ney'...

extra gravy

banie01 wrote: »

The players kneeling have gone on record to say that their kneeling is not in support of BLM.
It is particularly for the English players an effort to highlight ongoing racism and inequality.
.

This is the best part. The players have literally said why they doing it and yet the usual idiots on boards claim to know their minds better than they do.

Hamsterchops

Ah sorry, but the whole 'taking the knee' thing seems very hollow and shallow, embarrassing & insincere if you ask me.

All about the optics.

Billy Mays

Black players getting racially abused online every time they make a mistake in a game is the norm now

According to some they should just suck it up and get on with it

jam_mac_jam

Complete coincidence that American footballers started it. Nothing to do with US politics at all. Didn't start in light of US politics.

Eric Cartman

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Ah sorry, but the whole 'taking the knee' thing seems very hollow and shallow to me, embarrassing & insincere if you ask me.

All about the optics.

Incredibly. Just let the fans enjoy the game without having to deal with politics for a minute

Atlantic Dawn

Why do Golfers not do it?

Amadan Dubh

Booing the knee is being blown out of proportion. It hardly means a whole lot to just boo during the gesture. At the same time, taking a knee is not solving anything and it seems to be built up into this massive gesture that somehow seems to fix the problem of racism. The very minor idiots booing the gesture can easily be ignored and should be ignored, but the taking of the knee doesn't actually change anything with respect to the problem of racism.

I personally wouldn't boo it.

But I can see why people are rebelling against BLM.

Nobody booed the kick racism out initiative or anything else race related in recent time.

The toxic element is the association with BLM, the booing is for that movement, not because people support racism.

extra gravy

Billy Mays wrote: »

Black players getting racially abused online every time they make a mistake in a game is the norm now

According to some they should just suck it up and get on with it

Yeah suck it up, sure it's only "politics"

Pawwed Rig

Augme wrote: »

They aren't taking a knee about American police issues. They are taking a knee about the problem of racism in society.

Why should black people and footballers who still receive racist abuse move on?

Racism is a massive problem. All you need to do is look at social media, especially of players of colour.

I have been attending football matches for decades now and never once have heard a racist comment at a game. Not saying it doesn't happen but you would think it was a constant stream of racial abuse coming from the sidelines the way the media go on about it.

The knee is associated with George Floyd and BLM. They even had BLM printed on jerseys at one stage.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

This is the best part. The players have literally said why they doing it and yet the usual idiots on boards claim to know their minds better than they do.

Spokespeople for the players have come out and said what their pr people have told them to say about their reasoning for kneeling.

You'd need to be naïve as hell or socially inept to think that a footballer would risk a multi million pound sponsorship by not taking the agreed knee.

But no, I'm sure you are right, the players are doing the same hive mind think.

Nowt to do with monetary gain and fear of alienation.

jam_mac_jam

Billy Mays wrote: »

Black players getting racially abused online every time they make a mistake in a game is the norm now

According to some they should just suck it up and get on with it

Because literally nobody said they should suck it up

Do you honestly think the toerags that shout racist abuse at players are going to stop because they take a knee.

Of course nobody should have to put up with racist abuse.

Strumms

I don’t agree with booing it.

I also don’t agree with it happening at every fücking football game / and other events.....

If we must take the knee, when not take an extra 10 minutes to have players recognize other causes and social issues...

It’s to me fairly pointless anyway... if a person has racist inclinations, they are not going to be dissuaded by watching footballers taking the knee before a sports event...

If they are targeting young people to educate... that’s also BS as education on the topic comes to hearts and minds through racism being taught and discussed...in detail, in a class, where it’s discussed, ...not through the symbolism of taking the knee... which is worthless and has no impact overall... the BLM crowd just want recognition and to feel their cause has relevance, impact and value as well as a regular, consistent weekly global platform...

I wouldn’t like to be the FA or premier league dude who says.. “ erm, alright, I think we’ve done that now.. let’s stop”... he’ll probably be called a racist.

People should just fûcking get on with playing football...

I’ll be in the chipper next week and ordering a quarter pounder and chips but disallowed until I take the knee ?

nolivesmatter

Billy Mays wrote: »

Black players getting racially abused online every time they make a mistake in a game is the norm now

According to some they should just suck it up and get on with it

Who ever said they should suck it up? Even people who take issue with the knee or BLM or whatever would say to report any abuse to the authorities.

lawred2

A gesture co-opted by corporatism so as to stack up their PR credits is not really something to be too protective of.

It's a bit of a joke now to be honest.

But I still wouldn't get anywhere near to the point of booing it. It's hardly doing any harm.

ted1

Billy Mays wrote: »

Black players getting racially abused online every time they make a mistake in a game is the norm now

According to some they should just suck it up and get on with it

Great support for black players. Are you ok with James McClean getting racist abuse ? Ian Wrights abuse was dealt with but not the White Irish lad.

machiavellianme

Deleted User wrote: »

I personally wouldn't boo it.

But I can see why people are rebelling against BLM.

Nobody booed the kick racism out initiative or anything else race related in recent time.

The toxic element is the association with BLM, the booing is for that movement, not because people support racism.

It is such a shame that they did not develop some other symbolism for unity and equality. Adopting an American initiative, with all its cultural and political connotations, was not a great idea because it already represents something and folk have difficulty divorcing the two. They should have all linked elbows or something and created their own symbolic "statement".

yosser hughes

The question I have is, why has the kick racism out initiative been overtaken by this BLM gesture?
What is the end game here?

Augme

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have been attending football matches for decades now and never once have heard a racist comment at a game. Not saying it doesn't happen but you would think it was a constant stream of racial abuse coming from the sidelines the way the media go on about it.

The knee is associated with George Floyd and BLM. They even had BLM printed on jerseys at one stage.

Eh, I thought it would be fairly obvious why you don't hear racist in the stands anymore. Because people can't get away with it so easily in such a public manner. It doesn't mean racism doesn't exist though.

It's rife on social media, why? Because people can freely express their honest opinions without much represcussion.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

A gesture co-opted by corporatism so as to stack up their PR credits is not really something to be too protective of.

It's a bit of a joke now to be honest.

But I still wouldn't get anywhere near to the point of booing it. It's hardly doing any harm.

Exactly.

It's like all these corporations flying the pride flag this month and being lauded for it.

Check to see if they're flying your flag in the middle East or China....

kowloonkev

extra gravy wrote: »

This is the best part. The players have literally said why they doing it and yet the usual idiots on boards claim to know their minds better than they do.

Taking the knee is a BLM thing. If players want to change the reason for why they are doing something half way through, then just change the gesture too. Maybe they can do a jig instead.

banie01

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The knee is associated with George Floyd and BLM. They even had BLM printed on jerseys at one stage.

I have myself, (going to football games) and I have heard it.
Some grounds are far worse than others and I've not heard it at every game of course.
Social media makes some of the abuse far more instant and visceral.

Yes they did have BLM printed on shirts at one point.
However they don't now, the players have chosen to continue with the gesture to highlight the racism in society.
For the PL, that's the UK they have made a choice to carry on in an effort to highlight the ongoing issues.
Holding the current knee, to BLM, George Floyd is wrong.

Players are attempting to use their profile and platform to spark a conversation, a change in thought without actually incessantly banging on about how awful racists are?
Yet even that silent, momentary gesture is too much for some to let pass without booing?

bfa1509

banie01 wrote: »

That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

Social inequality? Most of them are earning 60gs a week for christs sake!

machiavellianme

machiavellianme wrote: »

It is such a shame that they did not develop some other symbolism for unity and equality. Adopting an American initiative, with all its cultural and political connotations, was not a great idea because it already represents something and folk have difficulty divorcing the two. They should have all linked elbows or something and created their own symbolic "statement".

Or even not acknowledging racism.

Just a ten second silence, followed by a handshake, to honour the differences between us all, regardless of colour and to show respect for all different backgrounds.

extra gravy

Ronay summed it up at the weekend:

"The public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous."

bfa1509

machiavellianme wrote: »

It is such a shame that they did not develop some other symbolism for unity and equality. Adopting an American initiative, with all its cultural and political connotations, was not a great idea because it already represents something and folk have difficulty divorcing the two. They should have all linked elbows or something and created their own symbolic "statement".

Exactly! The ones who wear the black arm bands don't get booed. That's first hand proof that the boos are for disrespecting the anthem/country

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Ronay summed it up at the weekend:

"The public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous."

That's his opinion.

I think he is wrong.

osarusan

Don't see the point of it, it achieves nothing. It's a pity it became so widespread in a way, because it did mean something when it was just Kaepernick and others choosing to do it.

Don't agree with booing it either though. It takes about 5 seconds, then it's over. no need to react in any way.

banie01

bfa1509 wrote: »

Social inequality? Most of them are earning 60gs a week for christs sake!

And often come from poor backgrounds and know the difference that small changes can make.

Maybe they should just stay quiet and do what they're told?
Sure what would Rashford know about poverty?
Or Mané for that matter!

They should just knock of the politicking and carry on chasing the ball.
What were the stupid fúckers even thinking trying to spark a change.

Pawwed Rig

Augme wrote: »

Eh, I thought it would be fairly obvious why you don't hear racist in the stands anymore. Because people can't get away with it so easily in such a public manner. It doesn't mean racism doesn't exist though.

I didn't say 'anymore'. I said never. I have been going to matches since the 1980s

Bobeagleburger

The people who have a problem with players taking the knee, are the ones who ultimately have a problem.

Bobblehats

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Ah sorry, but the whole 'taking the knee' thing seems very hollow and shallow, embarrassing & insincere if you ask me.

All about the optics.

In their last three internationals alone Ireland have been caught kneeling to Qatari; Andorran and Hungarian teams. None of it for whom occurred to go down on their knees. Indeed the Hungarian captain made a point of just touching his “respect” badge tonight, suggesting that was enough

Going into a European Championships I’m just wondering how long is this expected to continue? ..and of whom is it just a few western European sucker nations? Now that the people are in attendance, voicing their disapproval and teams evidently don’t approve of it either. Is this farce to continue and not be adhered?

Effects

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Booing people disrespecting the anthem and the game for taking a knee to support a reactionary terror group is not racist.

"Tell me you're racist, without telling me you're racist."

extra gravy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's his opinion.

I think he is wrong.

Of course you do. The first England game is on Sunday, you can boo along to your heart's content.

Pawwed Rig

Bobblehats wrote: »

In their last three internationals alone Ireland have been caught kneeling to Qatari; Andorran and Hungarian teams. None of it for whom occurred to go down on their knees. Indeed the Hungarian captain made a point of just touching his “respect” badge tonight, suggesting that was enough

Going into a European Championships I’m just wondering how long is this expected to continue? ..and of whom is it just a few western European sucker nations? Now that the people are in attendance, voicing their disapproval and teams evidently don’t approve of it either. Is this farce to continue and not be adhered?

It irked me when they did it at the Qatar match. A country that is more discriminatory that most others on earth with asian workers dying in their thousands? Solidarity with the workers would have been more appropriate than taking a knee in that situation

BPKS

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

Exactly. Raheen Sterling taking the lead on this a year ago while his employers were killing thousands of innocent people in Yemen was the ultimate in irony.