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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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    #32
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,465 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't boo it.

    But I can see why people are rebelling against BLM.

    Nobody booed the kick racism out initiative or anything else race related in recent time.

    The toxic element is the association with BLM, the booing is for that movement, not because people support racism.

    It is such a shame that they did not develop some other symbolism for unity and equality. Adopting an American initiative, with all its cultural and political connotations, was not a great idea because it already represents something and folk have difficulty divorcing the two. They should have all linked elbows or something and created their own symbolic "statement".


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    #33
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    The question I have is, why has the kick racism out initiative been overtaken by this BLM gesture?
    What is the end game here?


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    #34
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Augme


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    I have been attending football matches for decades now and never once have heard a racist comment at a game. Not saying it doesn't happen but you would think it was a constant stream of racial abuse coming from the sidelines the way the media go on about it.

    The knee is associated with George Floyd and BLM. They even had BLM printed on jerseys at one stage.

    Eh, I thought it would be fairly obvious why you don't hear racist in the stands anymore. Because people can't get away with it so easily in such a public manner. It doesn't mean racism doesn't exist though.

    It's rife on social media, why? Because people can freely express their honest opinions without much represcussion.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    A gesture co-opted by corporatism so as to stack up their PR credits is not really something to be too protective of.

    It's a bit of a joke now to be honest.

    But I still wouldn't get anywhere near to the point of booing it. It's hardly doing any harm.

    Exactly.

    It's like all these corporations flying the pride flag this month and being lauded for it.

    Check to see if they're flying your flag in the middle East or China....


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    #36
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    extra gravy wrote: »
    This is the best part. The players have literally said why they doing it and yet the usual idiots on boards claim to know their minds better than they do.

    Taking the knee is a BLM thing. If players want to change the reason for why they are doing something half way through, then just change the gesture too. Maybe they can do a jig instead.


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    #37
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,568 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »

    The knee is associated with George Floyd and BLM. They even had BLM printed on jerseys at one stage.

    I have myself, (going to football games) and I have heard it.
    Some grounds are far worse than others and I've not heard it at every game of course.
    Social media makes some of the abuse far more instant and visceral.

    Yes they did have BLM printed on shirts at one point.
    However they don't now, the players have chosen to continue with the gesture to highlight the racism in society.
    For the PL, that's the UK they have made a choice to carry on in an effort to highlight the ongoing issues.
    Holding the current knee, to BLM, George Floyd is wrong.

    Players are attempting to use their profile and platform to spark a conversation, a change in thought without actually incessantly banging on about how awful racists are?
    Yet even that silent, momentary gesture is too much for some to let pass without booing?


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    #38
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    banie01 wrote: »
    That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

    Social inequality? Most of them are earning 60gs a week for christs sake!


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    machiavellianme wrote: »
    It is such a shame that they did not develop some other symbolism for unity and equality. Adopting an American initiative, with all its cultural and political connotations, was not a great idea because it already represents something and folk have difficulty divorcing the two. They should have all linked elbows or something and created their own symbolic "statement".

    Or even not acknowledging racism.

    Just a ten second silence, followed by a handshake, to honour the differences between us all, regardless of colour and to show respect for all different backgrounds.


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    #40
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,624 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Ronay summed it up at the weekend:

    "The public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous."


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    #41
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    machiavellianme wrote: »
    It is such a shame that they did not develop some other symbolism for unity and equality. Adopting an American initiative, with all its cultural and political connotations, was not a great idea because it already represents something and folk have difficulty divorcing the two. They should have all linked elbows or something and created their own symbolic "statement".

    Exactly! The ones who wear the black arm bands don't get booed. That's first hand proof that the boos are for disrespecting the anthem/country


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Ronay summed it up at the weekend:

    "The public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous."

    That's his opinion.

    I think he is wrong.


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    #43
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Don't see the point of it, it achieves nothing. It's a pity it became so widespread in a way, because it did mean something when it was just Kaepernick and others choosing to do it.

    Don't agree with booing it either though. It takes about 5 seconds, then it's over. no need to react in any way.


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    #44
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,568 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    Social inequality? Most of them are earning 60gs a week for christs sake!

    And often come from poor backgrounds and know the difference that small changes can make.

    Maybe they should just stay quiet and do what they're told?
    Sure what would Rashford know about poverty?
    Or Mané for that matter!

    They should just knock of the politicking and carry on chasing the ball.
    What were the stupid fúckers even thinking trying to spark a change.


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    #45
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Augme wrote: »
    Eh, I thought it would be fairly obvious why you don't hear racist in the stands anymore. Because people can't get away with it so easily in such a public manner. It doesn't mean racism doesn't exist though.

    I didn't say 'anymore'. I said never. I have been going to matches since the 1980s


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    #46
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    The people who have a problem with players taking the knee, are the ones who ultimately have a problem.


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    #47
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    Ah sorry, but the whole 'taking the knee' thing seems very hollow and shallow, embarrassing & insincere if you ask me.

    All about the optics.

    In their last three internationals alone Ireland have been caught kneeling to Qatari; Andorran and Hungarian teams. None of it for whom occurred to go down on their knees. Indeed the Hungarian captain made a point of just touching his “respect” badge tonight, suggesting that was enough

    Going into a European Championships I’m just wondering how long is this expected to continue? ..and of whom is it just a few western European sucker nations? Now that the people are in attendance, voicing their disapproval and teams evidently don’t approve of it either. Is this farce to continue and not be adhered?


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    #48
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Booing people disrespecting the anthem and the game for taking a knee to support a reactionary terror group is not racist.

    "Tell me you're racist, without telling me you're racist."


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    #49
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,624 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's his opinion.

    I think he is wrong.

    Of course you do. The first England game is on Sunday, you can boo along to your heart's content.


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    #50
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Bobblehats wrote: »
    In their last three internationals alone Ireland have been caught kneeling to Qatari; Andorran and Hungarian teams. None of it for whom occurred to go down on their knees. Indeed the Hungarian captain made a point of just touching his “respect” badge tonight, suggesting that was enough

    Going into a European Championships I’m just wondering how long is this expected to continue? ..and of whom is it just a few western European sucker nations? Now that the people are in attendance, voicing their disapproval and teams evidently don’t approve of it either. Is this farce to continue and not be adhered?

    It irked me when they did it at the Qatar match. A country that is more discriminatory that most others on earth with asian workers dying in their thousands? Solidarity with the workers would have been more appropriate than taking a knee in that situation


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    #51
    BPKS
    Registered Users Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭BPKS


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

    It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

    Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

    Exactly. Raheen Sterling taking the lead on this a year ago while his employers were killing thousands of innocent people in Yemen was the ultimate in irony.


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    #52
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

    It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

    Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

    I guess people feel racism exists outside America too


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    #53
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    Has any journalist canvassed the opinions of supporters that are booing and their reasons for doing so?


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    #54
    Housefree
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Housefree


    People are sick of US politics happening over here, they had a BLM protest outside a Garda station, a mostly unarmed force. In what world does that make sense?


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    #55
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    BPKS wrote: »
    Exactly. Raheen Sterling taking the lead on this a year ago while his employers were killing thousands of innocent people in Yemen was the ultimate in irony.


    Is that irony?


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    #56
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    banie01 wrote: »
    What were the stupid fúckers even thinking trying to spark a change.

    You talk as if racism is a rampant systemic issue, rather than the fragmented, isolated incidents that it more closely resembles.

    What measures do you think should be introduced that would satisfy the change you think they are fighting for?


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    #57
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's his opinion.

    I think he is wrong.
    Quelle surprise


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    #58
    Acosta
    Registered Users Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭Acosta


    banie01 wrote: »
    Do you honestly believe that taking the knee is a gesture in support of radical terrorism?
    I mean really and honestly?

    Do you believe it is in any way appropriate to denigrate people trying to make a point in a peaceful and dignified manner?

    Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick was wrong?
    That the players in the UK and Europe who are still choosing to take a knee are wrong?
    That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

    You're trying to reason with a guy that thinks the UK border force should gun down migrants attempting to cross the English Channel illegally.


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Of course you do. The first England game is on Sunday, you can boo along to your heart's content.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't boo it.

    But I can see why people are rebelling against BLM.

    I honestly think it's a bit mean of you to purposely try to frame me as a racist when I explicitly stated the opposite and have absolutely nothing but distain for actual racism.

    I literally said I wouldn't boo it, but can see why people may.

    Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't make me a bad person or someone you should try to frame as some racist.

    It's dishonest.


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    #60
    PalLimerick
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    People can take a knee if they so wish but People are free to boo them if they wish also.

    I wouldn't take a knee for BLM, which I believe is a radical organisation.


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    #61
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,568 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    You talk as if racism is a rampant systemic issue, rather than the fragmented, isolated incidents that it more closely resembles.

    What measures do you think should be introduced that would satisfy the change you think they are fighting for?

    All informed sources in the UK are of the opinion that systemic racism is a problem and has societal impact.

    Start with Barnado's opinion and see if it shapes any opinion of your own.
    https://www.barnardos.org.uk/blog/how-systemic-racism-affects-young-people-uk

    Downing St did publish a report last month that opined that systemic racism doesn't exist in the UK.
    BoJo's race adviser resigned shortly afterwards and the report itself has been widely panned as a whitewash.

    Racism is fairly endemic in the UK, not so bad here I think but it's not something I've ever experienced in Ireland.
    Can't say the same about the UK, but as soon as Muslims became the enemy de jure over there being Irish painted a lot less of a target on paddies.


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