Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

The timeline given for every project now seems to be based on "it couldn't possibly take any longer than ..." rather than the actual time such works generally take. It ensures arses are well covered and good potential for pats on the back if delivered in less time than that stated.

Tender issued for Provision of Contract Management Support Services for the Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR) Signalling & Telecommunications upgrade;

48 months duration, option to extend for a further 48 months, on a 6 by 6 months basis at IE’s discretion.

Great news. Super quick turnaround too

i don't believe so.

it should be though, the greenway can easily be removed and re-routed and the railway would get more users anyway.

i suspect though it won't be and in decades to come it will be regretted.

but whatever, this is the way it is unfortunately.

Whether the Greenway or rail would get mor users is irrelevant. The Greenway is more likely to have a better Cost/Benefit score as the capital and operational costs are much lower. If the Greenway can be linked to Dungarvan, I can see it being extremely popular with domestic and international punters. It would be part of a high quality and very impressive Greenway between Waterford and Cork.

In reality, there is limited rail passenger potential there. The station at Youghal would be an awkward location and most residents would have to get into the car anyway to get there. Youghal is also 22km from Midleton, that's about the same as the Dublin outer commuter limit (Dunboyne, Maynooth, Hazelhatch) to city centre. It would be a long journey to get anywhere and service frequency would be low. A P&R east of Midleton linked to the N25 would be a good idea though.

In terms of government funding, reinstating rail to Youghal would likely be linked to N25 plans east of Midleton. A firm plan to reopen the rail line would damage the case for the N25 and probably see intentions there reduced to basic bypasses of Castlemartyr and Killeagh. If the rail is being invested in to move people, then the parallel road doesn't need to carry the current level of traffic. That would be in line with national policy.

Cork has more pressing transport concerns tbh, start building the bus corridors and the luas before extending commuter rail all the way to Youghal. The same mindset was about in Dublin years ago, people wanted rail to go to Navan even though there was nowhere to send trains to in the city centre. We were building luas extensions up to the mountains before connecting the 2 lines in the city centre, mad stuff altogether. Any radial transport network must be functional in its core area before it can reasonably branch out, TDs just like getting things extended.

There's a degree of sense in what you say, and in a country where high-density living was promoted I'd fully agree with you. But "Ireland is different" and if a greenway is built (basically a tourism infrastructure) then the rail option goes completely out the window for everywhere east of Middleton.

passenger numbers may not actually be that small.

remember, because someone might have to drive a bit to a station is no longer an argument against rail as driving a small bit to a station is preferable on a societal level if there is going to be some driving involved, then driving all the way which will be a longar distance, and which will in all likely hood require the building of very very expensive infrastructure in the form of a motor way which in normal countries wouldn't be justifiable.

it would be viable as it would be cheap to do compared to the required upgrades that road would need and by removing some of that traffic the upgrades would not be needed.

I'm not against rail to Youghal, but right now it's not an urgent need and it's not simple. Cork has a number of far more urgent rail needs with straightforward implementation plans. And other parts of the country have more urgent rail needs too. So they must take priority.

To justify extension towards Youghal, there will need to be priority on development of the corridor. This would require an urban area in Mogeely, centered around a station there, and to the South of Killeagh too. Let alone further Carrigtohill and Midleton area rail developments. Those aren't yet in County Development plans. So nothing will progress until 2028 or so at a minimum.

I think the fact that the greenway is being developed seems to have lit a fire under the "Youghal Railway" people, and that's a good thing, but the distance to Youghal is large and the populations on the corridor are really low. The overall rail corridor needs to be made more attractive, in order to better justify the investment. Otherwise, it would be just as sensible to extend and refurbish rail lines in all sorts of low-population areas of the country.

Have you costed it? In any case the N25 needs to be upgraded, 100%. It's not viable to continue to have the road going through Castlemartyr and Killeagh. A train would only take a tiny fraction of traffic off the road.

I live in Carrigtwohill and we have a fairly good fast frequency service and relatively very very few people use it. I'm one of the few who use it, there's a massive 260 space car park at the station and there's never move than 10-15 cars there every morning using it. And this was before Covid as well. In the 2019 census there was 137 boardings and 110 alightings on the day in question. Tiny numbers considering there was c.25 services each way or average of c.5 passengers per service. Neighbours living near me who work in the city never use the train. They prefer to drive. I work with people who live in Midleton and they never use the train.

it wouldn't as it would require much bigger upgrades of the road network then would be needed otherwise which would actually cost a fortune unlike the rail line which would be cheaper to do even with a double track if desired.

it is road that is the hugely expensive infrastructure.

a congestion charge in the city as well along with the rail line would remove the need for those bypasses.

They are going to add an additional platform on the southern side on the avoiding line.

That will mean three through platforms will be available which should be more than enough.

From a commuting point of view if you already have a car and live in the midleton area you'll likely drive ,

Yes you could drive to the train station in midleton ,there's plenty parking , but it's as easy to get to the dual carraigeway,

If you work in carrigtohil theres a really long walk from the station to the main industrial estate ..it was supposed to have a dedicated rail stop, didnt happen ..

Little island fairly similar .. it's a long walk to the main industrial areas , ( there is a private company doing a bus around little island from the city now )

You can't change at dunkettle , there was supposed to be a station and park and ride there ,nra objected I think ,

There's a projected station for Tivoli/ north docks , hopefully .. but if you're going east read above , and if you're going to the city you'll either have to walk from Kent or get a bus ..

Kent .. the area around kent and the quays is becoming a lot more built up ..

And theoretically onto blackpool,and mallow except no one built the station at blackpool ..

it's not about fairness, it's about modernisation.

the adons like tuam and youghal are very easy, quick, cheap and deliverable within a good timeframe hence are easy wins and why they have support.

some of the bigger projects that are needed have a lot to do before they get off the ground and wouldn't be delivered any quicker then they would be and the adons strengthen the cases for them to a stage where they can't be kicked down the can.

There's buildings on the alignment to Youghal. The greenway avoids these issues by going around the property built on the rail line, particularly in one location. So it would not be as simple as just re-laying track and sending trains down it. Plus the marshes would likely need some kind of solution for the modern trains. It would be an OK project, but it wouldn't be a phenomenally easy/straightforward one. Not as easy as Midleton was, is what I'm getting at. And definitely not as easy as Dunkettle, Carrigtohill West, WaterRock, Blackpool, Blarney, etc, which would be the "low-hanging fruit" in the Cork Area.

I've said it a few times now, but to push ahead the business case of rail for Youghal, the best opportunities would be increasing Midleton P&R usage and further housing density in Killeagh and Mogeely. These aren't in the County Development Plan, and I don't think I saw anybody make submissions that they should be included. Youghal's "problem" is the long stretches of no population, interrupted by small settlements. Youghal itself isn't a major settlement either. It's very different to the areas closer to the City, like the Midleton stretch.

That 480,000 pretty much aligns to the census in 2019 when there were c.1,400 journeys on the day to/from Midleton. 480k/365 = c1,300. So in fact the census shows a higher number per day if anything. No idea where you got the idea that it was not reliable.

your mentioned costs for youghal are an absolute bargain whether half the cost of foynes or 40 million.

no reason why it wouldn't be electrified, a diesel shuttle to midleton would rightly not be accepted by anybody whether campaigner or user so yes that would rightly be out.

any specific stations needing doing could be done regardless of other areas as the costs would be minimal in the great scheme of things.

Yep, hands up, I misread the original message regarding the figures.

A diesel shuttle would likely be the same frequency as EMUs continuing from Midleton. It would also certainly be a single track line (unless you want to blow €100m on it) which would most likely mean a single train on the line at any time. You could put in a passing loop but its more cost and means more trains carrying mostly air to/from Youghal with higher rolling stock requirements and greater operational costs.

Whats acceptable to campaigners or potential users is irrelevant, what's acceptable to them wouldn't be acceptable to the rest of the country and likely wouldn't pass Public Spending Code tests. Everybody wants tens of millions spent on their local pet project, there are procedures to ensure that those which get funded offer value for money.

New rail to the likes of Rathcormac and Fermoy is not going to happen. Improved buses, bus prioritisation and P&R at Dunkettle would go a long way to provide for those living there. But a rail line is simply not going to happen. Even in rail's heyday, there was no line from Cork to Fermoy via Glanmire, Watergrasshil, Rathcormac. So a brand new alignment is little more than a pipe dream.

As for buses from Kent, the 205 and 214 connect Kent to the city centre and the bus station - and onwards to places like UCC, MTU & CUH. Between them they are very frequent - with over 110 daily services each way providing a frequency of c.10 minutes. What more would you want?