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Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR) [Old archived version]

marno21

Note 29/03/2025: Due to ongoing technical issues in this thread with disappearing posts, this thread has been closed and replaced by a new one:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058403353/cork-area-commuter-rail-cacr

Original content of the first posts follows.

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Consultants to be appointed this month for the Cork Suburban Rail project. Here's what was proposed in CMATS:

8 new stations at Blarney, Monard, Kilbarry, Tivoli, Dunkettle (P&R), Carrigtwohill West, Water Rock & Ballynoe.
10km of double tracking between Glounthane & Midleton
Electrification of the network
10 min frequency Glounthane-Midleton/Cobh, 5 min frequency Kent-Glounthane, 10 min frequency Kent-Blarney
22 new 2 car train sets required
62km of overall network

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40290341.html

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specialbyte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256573#Comment_119256573

From the tender link:

Twin tracking of the single-track sections between Glounthaune and Midleton (approximately 70% of the 10km route)

I suspect the 70% of 10km route means they are avoiding some of the bridge issues in this round. It might strike the right kind of pragmatic uses of time and money. Changing bridges would likely require planning permission, something that this limited improvement doesn't need. Planning permission takes time and will delay this upgrade for years.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257160#Comment_119257160

By "avoiding the bridge issues" what do you mean? Single track at the bridges? Not even the NTA would go for such a daft scheme. Earlier we had €60m for S and T work, now €30m for less than 10km of track-doubling. And that's before the almost inevitable cost over-run.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257160#Comment_119257160

How much of that 30% includes the passing loop at Carrigtwohill? I remember it being fairly long from the few times I was on it.

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257927#Comment_119257927

The 30% includes the passing loops. When the line was reopened in 2009 it was constructed as a single line which could be easily upgraded to double track when demand was reached. 3 extended passing loops of 1km in length were also added to allow for higher service frequency than a regular single track line would allow. This is also why the budget is relatively low, as most of the ground work has already been completed.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258531#Comment_119258531

Thanks. Apologies if it has been well answered but I don't fully understand: will the bridges need to be modified? Is it too early to tell?

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258531#Comment_119258531

Sorry, this is wrong. The line was never double so the earthworks need attention. Also the existing track will need to be slewed to accommodate the second track. Finally, there was one crossing loop installed in 2009, a long "dynamic" loop at Carraigtohill. There are facilities for crossing trains at either end (at the Junction and at Midleton), not quite the same thing as crossing loops.

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260805#Comment_119260805

I believe the bridges built in 2009 can accommodate double track. Some of the older pre 2009 structures may need modifying though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260864#Comment_119260864

Yes you are correct the line was never double track, but that's not what I stated, which you will notice if you reread the post. Fair enough on the length of passing's loops. Its a 2km passing loop at Carrigtwohill and two 500m loops at Glounthaune and Midleton. 3km in total. The line was constructed to the recommendations of the 2003 Faber Maunsell report.

hans aus dtschl

I believe the bridges at Glounthaune (Elm Tree) and immediately adjacent to the west of Carrigtohill are the original bridges and may have been built to single-track width.

I believe that the bridge on station road is original but was built to double track width originally.

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262166#Comment_119262166

Yes that is correct. The station road bridge is already double track as it is part of the passing loop. Interestingly the present rail bridge over the Owennacurra river has pillars constructed for double track but only single track bridging.

Ireland trains

what fleet is being planned for the Cork network once these upgrades are done?

could the 29ks be cascaded from Dublin or could IE order a hybrid fleet from Alstom

thomil

Knowing the "minimum effort" policy that seems to underline any type of public transport investment outside of Dublin, I'd say we'll be lucky if we get some clapped out old 27ks pulled from retirement/abandonment, if we get anything at all. More likely, they'll just try to operate the extended services with the existing DMUs already assigned to Cork until they fall apart.

L1011

Most likely it'd be refurbished 29000s cascaded from Dublin.

The 27x0s are not economical to return to service; they would require a very significant overhaul; with the costs involved of doing that for a small and indeed split fleet (2700s, 2750s and the hybrid - I'd expect that to be just dumped if this was hypothetically being done) just not making sense; whereas it probably would for 116 identical cars.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266940#Comment_119266940

2700s definitely not coming back, for reasons given by L1011. And I have it on good authority that the 2600s used on Cork suburban are the most reliable units on Irish Rail, which is ironic given that they are the oldest.

namloc1980

The consultation for the dual tracking to Midleton is now open. As regards the bridges issue, the project team are saying the existing bridges are ok and don't need modification, or very minor works where necessary, to accommodate dual tracking. Drawings and reports are at the link.

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/cork-area-commuter-rail/glounthaune-to-midleton-twin-track-project

Geuze

What can't a train run from Mallow to Midleton at the moment?

Why is a new platform needed?

Geuze

What works are required?

The main element of the Glounthaune to Midleton Twin Track project consists of the provision of a second track over the full extent of the line. These works will largely be contained within the existing railway corridor and will include the following:

Addition of 2nd track over the full extent of the line;
Addition of sidings/turn back facilities at Midleton;
Modification/replacement of bridges and level crossings to facilitate the twin tracking
Associated signalling upgrades and alterations;
All associated civil works (retaining walls, boundary treatments, etc.).

All works completed as part of the project will be compatible with future electrification of the Cork Area Commuter Rail network.

While there will be some disruption to services during construction of the new track, this will be kept to a minimum.

https://www.irishrail.ie/Admin/getmedia/0aa1f923-a2e4-4c5e-ae4e-c2d70be4157b/Project-Description.pdf

The works are due to commence in 2023 and continue for 2-3 years.

Two to three years to lay 10km of track on an existing line? Does this seem slow?

In my head, you could lay at least 100m a day, surely?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393570#Comment_119393570

One through platform is occupied by a Dublin/Cork train for much of each hour between trips.

With the new service planned as being high frequency between Mallow and Cobh/Midleton, you need two through platforms to be available for the service to be able to operate effectively.

Geuze

Okay, thanks.

Is there a terminus platform for the Dublin trains to use?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393707#Comment_119393707

No - only the two through platforms are available from the north.

The bay platforms are at the far end of the station facing towards East Cork.

The extra through platform is essential.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393586#Comment_119393586

They say that most of the work will take place at night and weekends to minimize disruption to the rail service. As they want to keep the line open for service as much as possible this significantly reduces the time available to do the works, hence the longer timeframe.

Pete_Cavan

The timeline given for every project now seems to be based on "it couldn't possibly take any longer than ..." rather than the actual time such works generally take. It ensures arses are well covered and good potential for pats on the back if delivered in less time than that stated.

namloc1980

Planning lodged for the new/extended platform at Kent.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40933331.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Pete_Cavan

Tender issued for Provision of Contract Management Support Services for the Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR) Signalling & Telecommunications upgrade;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/266477

48 months duration, option to extend for a further 48 months, on a 6 by 6 months basis at IE’s discretion.

marno21

Railway Order application to be lodged with ABP for twin tracking of Glountane-Midleton today.

Construction to commence in 2024

Construction to conclude in 2026

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40998071.html

Paddico

Great news. Super quick turnaround too

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853223#Comment_119853223

It's being funded by EU Covid stimulus money so hence the breakneck speed. If this was being paid via NDP Ireland 2040 we'd still be stuck at the drawing board.

spacetweek

Money isn't the issue with infrastructure in Ireland. It's the planning process and shifting political priorities.

Paddico

Has the idea of extending/reopening the rail line to Youghal ever been considered

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120074111#Comment_120074111

i don't believe so.

it should be though, the greenway can easily be removed and re-routed and the railway would get more users anyway.

i suspect though it won't be and in decades to come it will be regretted.

but whatever, this is the way it is unfortunately.

hans aus dtschl

I think it was, during the evaluation of the Midleton reopening in 2001 or whenever that was. A long time ago now really.

There's still lots of more deserving projects in Cork, but with the recent/sudden investment in rail infrastructure the last few years it would be great if it was at least evaluated.