Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 MOD NOTE POST 1*

Grats · 12-06-2021 6:12pm

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Buckley was already togged off ready to come on before that so it was unrelated to be fair. Few lads played themselves out of the team today I think

Correct.

robwen · 12-06-2021 8:28pm

Grats wrote: »

Mullen went on a great run, pulled up and looked straight over to bench while holding his thigh. Then substituted.

Cody said after the game he felt his hamstring & doesn't think it's to serious

mullinr2 · 12-06-2021 10:12pm

Biggest test of the league and they failed. This is a very average Clare team. What does that make us?

usualstripes · 12-06-2021 11:41pm

mullinr2 wrote: »

Biggest test of the league and they failed. This is a very average Clare team. What does that make us?

Correct. We did fail but we did have chances to pull away when we were 1 point up. We had a goal opportunity when Richie reid tried to hand pass to mossy. Even after that we missed a few handy points.

Delivery into our forwards is one of the biggest obstacle to pass. With few exceptions we are not good fielders of the ball so we have to be a lot cuter in our delivery.
Also we are too open at times. Padraig needs to hold his position more in the centre.
Lawlors place is at no. 3 and not at 6.
Would like to have seen Darren mullen and conor delaney get their runs un but probably not going to happen now.
It was the closest we've had to championship fare and we've a few weeks to get ready for Wexford so improvements in tactics needed, particularly our puckouts as we're not getting close to winning our fair share of high balls.
Let's hope for the best.

davidx40 · 12-06-2021 11:51pm

If Clare are average as has been said by a few posters ....we are extremely average ....is this our poorest panel since 88/89 I certainly think it is ....

13-06-2021 12:15am

The drop in quality after TJ is like going into the abyss.

corner back 2 · 13-06-2021 9:08am

The apparent lack of a coherent puck out strategy is highly alarming and bordering on negligent. My only hope is that at half time in the Wexford game Cody was happy with how the shorter puck outs were working and decided to keep his powder dry until championship. Maybe I'm grasping at straws but I would find it hard to believe that no one in the Kilkenny set up realises that you have to mix up the puck outs in order to compete. Also on puck outs surprisingly Eoin Murphy's accuracy on long puck outs has been poor enough. If we go long it needs to be more accurate. Definitely agree with point that if Padraig if playing centre back he needs to hold position more. Also Browne is not a wing back at this level. Midfield for him or nowhere I think. I think many here are being over critical of the players and we can compete with most teams on a given day but more tactical thinking is needed to take the next step. Unfortunately I am thinking that resistance to change to more modern tactics is hindering the team. Hopefully as I said earlier things are being kept in reserve for the Wexford game.

formerlyET · 13-06-2021 12:31pm

“We’re getting close to the championship now, and everything from now on is geared towards the championship — next weekend is a big test for us. Like any match we want to win, but being so close to the championship, everything is geared towards that, so next weekend is terrific, from that point of view. Going to Ennis to play Clare, that’s a big challenge any time.” - Cody - last week.

13-06-2021 3:22pm

What is the story with James Maher is he still on the panel or gone.

dastardly00 · 13-06-2021 4:25pm

Well done to Michael Fennelly & Michael Kavanagh for convincingly winning Division 2A of the NHL

https://twitter.com/Offaly_GAA/status/1404077769592557575

Grats · 13-06-2021 5:11pm

Fred Daly wrote: »

What is the story with James Maher is he still on the panel or gone.

He was with the extended panel in Ennis.

13-06-2021 6:16pm

Grats wrote: »

He was with the extended panel in Ennis.

The reason i asked was somebody said to me this afternoon that he had left the panel.

Grats · 13-06-2021 6:29pm

Fred Daly wrote: »

The reason i asked was somebody said to me this afternoon that he had left the panel.

He did leave it before, old news perhaps.

Alonzo Moseley · 13-06-2021 8:02pm

Offaly and Derry have agreed to play their Div 3 football final next Saturday in Croke Park instead of sharing it, despite Offaly playing in the Championship the following weekend.
Fair play to both.

Should Kilkenny and Galway look to play next weekend for the League final with both teams not out in Champ for 3 weeks?

Rosita · 13-06-2021 8:16pm

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

Should Kilkenny and Galway look to play next weekend for the League final with both teams not out in Champ for 3 weeks?

Yes, would be great.

Alonzo Moseley · 13-06-2021 8:19pm

Rosita wrote: »

Yes, would be great.

I think so too, and both teams would surely jump at the chance to play a final in Croke Park next weekend given it is almost certain that's where the Leinster semis will be in 3 weeks' time.

brookville · 13-06-2021 8:33pm

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

I think so too, and both teams would surely jump at the chance to play a final in Croke Park next weekend given it is almost certain that's where the Leinster semis will be in 3 weeks' time.

I think the leinster semi is in portlaoise.The antrim Dublin match is in navan I think.
On yesterday's match its a match we could of won and recovered well after them two quick goals We had a few goal chances we didn't take The Richie Reid one I think resulted in a point the other end.Tj missed one and we also drove a few wides at the end.Brassil was very quite.
Hopefully mullen will be fit for the semi final it was his best game by far.Eoin cody was also good.Billy Ryan was sharp.
Leahy got a good half into the legs and Richie Reid was good so these are positive.
It's grand when lads are getting forward but you see yesterday we got sucked up the field and clare had a load of space in attack.The defenders first job is to defend and infairness the space in front of deegan and lawlor its hard to defend.
The concession of 4 goals and our puckouts will have to be priority.
I still think joey is getting a raw deal at the moment.Delaney and Darren mullen would be a help to that defence but time is probably running out.I think we haven't beaten clare since 2015.

Alonzo Moseley · 13-06-2021 9:01pm

brookville wrote: »

I think the leinster semi is in portlaoise.The antrim Dublin match is in navan I think.
On yesterday's match its a match we could of won and recovered well after them two quick goals We had a few goal chances we didn't take The Richie Reid one I think resulted in a point the other end.Tj missed one and we also drove a few wides at the end.Brassil was very quite.
Hopefully mullen will be fit for the semi final it was his best game by far.Eoin cody was also good.Billy Ryan was sharp.
Leahy got a good half into the legs and Richie Reid was good so these are positive.
It's grand when lads are getting forward but you see yesterday we got sucked up the field and clare had a load of space in attack.The defenders first job is to defend and infairness the space in front of deegan and lawlor its hard to defend.
The concession of 4 goals and our puckouts will have to be priority.
I still think joey is getting a raw deal at the moment.Delaney and Darren mullen would be a help to that defence but time is probably running out.I think we haven't beaten clare since 2015.

Yes, you are correct, both semis in a doubleheader in Portlaoise (ugh!)
But still feel we should knock heads together and play it.
These double-up matches are awful in my opinion, and I imagine the sponsors (Allianz) don't like the degrading of the competition either.

Agree with most points regarding yesterday.

I think 5 forward spots are filled (assuming clean bill of health)
TJ, Donnelly, Mullen, Cody, and Ryan
The last spot is up for grabs but I'd say Keoghan will get the nod.

But we badly need Richie Hogan too
I don't see much scoring threat beyond those seven players (Bergin probably played himself off yesterday) but that 6/7 is a serious forward line so this constant moaning that we are totally reliant on TJ is a bit tiresome.
He's a wizard, let's just accept that and be thankful we have him and stop measuring others by him.

But 2-9 is a mess right now and what has been tried there in the league will almost certainly get shown up if repeated in Champ
David Blanchfield could be a late springer, he looks a real Cody player, big and strong, and covers the ground
I have felt for a long time if Liam Blanchfield is ever to have a serious inter-county career it might be as a midfielder (he played some good games in Fitzgibbon back there and even half back).He is strong nd full of running but he just hasn't the accuracy for a top-class modern forward (neither I am sad to say has Walter Walsh)
I feel Richie Reid probably has one of the mids nailed down but it could be any one of 5 with him
I think David Blanchfield looks the business

If everyone fit I'd go with
Murphy
Browne
Lawlor
Holden
Blanchfield
Walsh
D Mullen
R Reid
Leahy
Donnelly
TJ
Mullen
Ryan
Hogan
Cody

Any updates on Richie Hogan welcome

Also, anyone knows is Ciaran Brennan of Bridge hurling with U20s this year?
I think he's a gem
Has the bit of pace we so badly need and a real eye for goal
I'd have had him ahead of EoinCody up till 2019, but Cody has really filled out

Grats · 13-06-2021 9:05pm

Was Tommy Walsh the worst of our backs yesterday? Obviously Cody thought so or else Walsh was injured.

MfMan · 13-06-2021 9:15pm

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

I think so too, and both teams would surely jump at the chance to play a final in Croke Park next weekend given it is almost certain that's where the Leinster semis will be in 3 weeks' time.

How competitive would it be though? I'd imagine both sides would be wary of incurring injuries and afraid to show a full hand ahead of a likely championship encounter. At least a 'double' final would have a good edge to it.

Comerman · 13-06-2021 9:20pm

@Alonzo
Conor Delaney? ?

Alonzo Moseley · 13-06-2021 9:47pm

Comerman wrote: »

@Alonzo
Conor Delaney? ?

Good Lord, sorry for any offence to Comer
Yes of course, number 4 for Holden
Any word on his recovery?

Also
Backed Dessie Hutchinson at 80/1 for HOTY
He is some bloody handful

Great win for Deise today against a pretty much full-strength Tipp.

Comerman · 13-06-2021 10:27pm

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

Good Lord, sorry for any offence to Comer
Yes of course, number 4 for Holden
Any word on his recovery?

Also
Backed Dessie Hutchinson at 80/1 for HOTY
He is some bloody handful

Great win for Deise today against a pretty much full-strength Tipp.

Absolutely no offence taken, either a player is good enough or not :-)

Village87 · 14-06-2021 9:18am

How are they looking at Paddy Deegan every week.
This Wexford match is massive, losers will find it hard to beat a couple of Muster teams in the back door. Could be end of a cycle for Kilkenny to if they lose. TJ, Richie Hogan, Wally Walsh, Fogarty, Holden, Buckley not getting any younger

Grats · 14-06-2021 9:28am

Village87 wrote: »

How are they looking at Paddy Deegan every week.
This Wexford match is massive, losers will find it hard to beat a couple of Muster teams in the back door. Could be end of a cycle for Kilkenny to if they lose. TJ, Richie Hogan, Wally Walsh, Fogarty, Holden, Buckley not getting any younger

Couple of things. Many express the same opinion as you regarding Paddy Deegan but yet he makes the team of the week regularly. When he looked under extreme pressure in Ennis, it was Tommy Walsh who was subbed. Other than TJ, none of the players you mention are started regularly and are to be commended for staying on offering whatever they can.

Clearly you wouldn't have Deegan. What other players would you not start? And more importantly, who would your starting 15 be?

Just to clarify, I don't disagree at all with your post.

JJs Left Hand · 14-06-2021 10:16am

Re Deegan, we don't have another back who covers as much ground as he does. I'd say his stats on distance covered during a game is insane. Endlessly running off the shoulder, driving forward and creating space for others by drawing the attention of an opposition player. He definitely has his weaknesses but the alternatives aren't there.

Tommy Walsh a good defender but not great on the ball.
Wallace came on Saturday and got absolutely dusted at one point (could've been the 4th goal).
Joey is probably the best hurler of the lot and I'd like to see him get more time but athletically wouldn't be as good as Deegan for those runs.

Who else is there?

We can only play the players we have and if we have designs on playing more of a running game then Deegan is probably a lot more crucial than people want him to be.

But other than the 4th goal on Saturday the full back line wasn't to blame. The Deegan penalty was probably a foul but just unlucky. Nobody tracked Kelly for his first goal bar Mullen who was way too far off him but why didn't anyone in the half back like pick him up when he basically just ran down the centre? And Reidy just ran straight through a non existant half back line for his goal.

Someone suggested David Blanchfield to start in championship. He has loads of potential but he's nowhere near ready. Raw out. And couldn't have Liam Blanchfield as a midfielder at all. Doesn't have the athleticism for it. In my opinion.

brookville · 14-06-2021 10:49am

Village87 wrote: »

How are they looking at Paddy Deegan every week.
This Wexford match is massive, losers will find it hard to beat a couple of Muster teams in the back door. Could be end of a cycle for Kilkenny to if they lose. TJ, Richie Hogan, Wally Walsh, Fogarty, Holden, Buckley not getting any younger

The likes of wally,Buckley,Fogarty and joey aren't really in Cody's plans.Richie hasn't played a full game in a few years so the idea of him starting is a bit unrealistic.
We have huge issues in defence and the way Waterford ran right through us last year and again the other day clare got through untouched.
We have a good bit of work to do for three weeks.if Darren mullen and Delaney were fit I would put them into that defence.

Alonzo Moseley · 14-06-2021 12:49pm

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Re Deegan, we don't have another back who covers as much ground as he does. I'd say his stats on distance covered during a game is insane. Endlessly running off the shoulder, driving forward and creating space for others by drawing the attention of an opposition player. He definitely has his weaknesses but the alternatives aren't there.

Tommy Walsh a good defender but not great on the ball.
Wallace came on Saturday and got absolutely dusted at one point (could've been the 4th goal).
Joey is probably the best hurler of the lot and I'd like to see him get more time but athletically wouldn't be as good as Deegan for those runs.

Who else is there?

We can only play the players we have and if we have designs on playing more of a running game then Deegan is probably a lot more crucial than people want him to be.

But other than the 4th goal on Saturday the full back line wasn't to blame. The Deegan penalty was probably a foul but just unlucky. Nobody tracked Kelly for his first goal bar Mullen who was way too far off him but why didn't anyone in the half back like pick him up when he basically just ran down the centre? And Reidy just ran straight through a non existant half back line for his goal.

Someone suggested David Blanchfield to start in championship. He has loads of potential but he's nowhere near ready. Raw out. And couldn't have Liam Blanchfield as a midfielder at all. Doesn't have the athleticism for it. In my opinion.

It's easy to see why Cody likes Deegan, strong and brave and athletic, great verve.
But much of what he offers is negated by our current tactics on puck outs
ie
What is the point of having a strong athletic ball carrying and distributing corner back if we never puck short?

Most of the ball he is hurling now is handy loose stuff against likes of Wex and Laois who play two and even one man full-forward lines

What happens against the really good teams when the ball is being zinged into Gillane and Conor Whelan?
That's when the fun starts
Trying to contain players like that in the modern game with all the advantages those forwards now have (and the penalty awarded against Deegan was cruel and goes against the ethos of hurling) is bloody difficult.
So you need top-class hurlers in your full-back line and even with that, you need a bit of luck just to keep likes of Gillane and Whelan etc semi subdued.

I was really happy with Lawlor, Shanagher is a right handful but he had a great contest and despite his tap in goal, I think Lawlor hurled him really well.

But the rest of 2-9 is a shambles at moment for me
I havent confidence in two or there at all, while at least three more are clearly not being played in their best positions.

greenspurs · 14-06-2021 12:54pm

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

I think so too, and both teams would surely jump at the chance to play a final in Croke Park next weekend given it is almost certain that's where the Leinster semis will be in 3 weeks' time.

Well, for some good/bad reason the Camogie league final between Kilkenny and Galway is on in Croke park next Sunday, with a 19.30 throw in !!!!!!

:rolleyes:

kksaints · 14-06-2021 2:35pm

greenspurs wrote: »

Well, for some good/bad reason the Camogie league final between Kilkenny and Galway is on in Croke park next Sunday, with a 19.30 throw in !!!!!!

:rolleyes:

Isn't that one of the trial events for the return of spectators?

greenspurs · 14-06-2021 2:38pm

kksaints wrote: »

Isn't that one of the trial events for the return of spectators?

Well if they are trying to deter big crowds - they are going the right way about it!

robwen · 14-06-2021 4:01pm

Is it because of TV, RTE 2 are showing it live, fitting it in around Euro coverage

The_Ghost · 14-06-2021 6:23pm

Was always going to be an awkward league, hard to know if we’ve learned much but there has been some encouraging signs. Our forwards are definitely working the ball around themselves much better with shorter stick passes, the delivery in has been better than previous years but needs work and has to be done more often. Weather we can do this in Championship hurling is another thing. When teams run at us we don’t know what to do which is a real issue, as is our own puck out. Murphy hits a few good medium length ones but when we really need to win our own puck out we rarely do which is also very worrying as our fielding isn’t great and even if we do win it our players are just bottled up.

Mullen got a good league in him which is great. Mossy and cody have improved greatly. Bergin proved to be a sharpshooter and could be a good sub to have but question marks still there. Richie Reid has his position at midfield and could be a good partner for leahy, although both their shot selections can be questionable. 2-9 is the real worry for me as we have the forwards but they need those out to the pitch to help them out more. Delaney will come back in but it’s hard to see Darren Mullen be thrown into a championship game from the start. The Wexford game is make or break for both teams. Lots of our players had good league campaigns last year and then disappointed in championship hopefully that doesn’t happen again. I agree that we can beat anyone on our day but i don’t think we have the consistency.

tbiggertycome · 19-06-2021 6:27pm

Heard Conor Delaney in real trouble and his issue is worse than previously thought.

Heard that Joey and Brassil left the panel during the week. Not sure on the voracity of this news but would be pretty damning if so.

Hopefully I'm wrong about all 3

Grats · 19-06-2021 6:58pm

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Heard Conor Delaney in real trouble and his issue is worse than previously thought.

Heard that Joey and Brassil left the panel during the week. Not sure on the voracity of this news but would be pretty damning if so.

Hopefully I'm wrong about all 3

That's a real shame for Delaney, and Kilkenny. He's badly needed in that full back line.

I suggested to colleagues during the week that I wouldn't be surprised if Joey walked. He's been treated poorly during the league. And now with Delaney out, management ought to regret how they dealt with Holden.

Brassil dropping out is a mystery unless his injury has forced him to.

19-06-2021 7:35pm

The best of luck to our ladies in Croke park tomorrow evening.

Senditinlow · 19-06-2021 8:08pm

Attended a KK development squad session today. As a parent I decided to stay on and watch. I'm involved in underage club teams myself so I thought I might pick up some idea's. How wrong I was, drills were so dated, bar one possession drill the others were prehistoric. These players are supposed to be the best from their clubs, at least give them some challenging drills.

Session went as follows:
20 minutes warm up
40 minutes drills
20 minutes naming teams and chat about how they wanted them to play
10 minute match.

10 minute match, come on. All the boys want to do is hurl not be given a 20 minute speech beforehand.

KK Co.Board need to take a long look at themselves. Thought Development Squads were to get a big shake up under new guidance, same old regime as far as I can see.

JJs Left Hand · 20-06-2021 11:04am

What age group if you don't mind me asking?

Senditinlow · 20-06-2021 1:23pm

To be fair to everyone involved I'd rather not say, coaches are giving up their time to be in involved. Just think the standard of drills and length of match time left a lot of questions

Senditinlow · 20-06-2021 1:59pm

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

What age group if you don't mind me asking?

I'd rather not say, coaches are giving up their spare time to be involved to be fair. I'm just questioning that the level of drills weren't challenging the players and 10 minutes of a match was far too short.

JJs Left Hand · 20-06-2021 2:06pm

Yep, fair point

blackcard · 20-06-2021 9:08pm

Brilliant win in the camogie. Looked out of it completely in the first half and should have been down by a lot more than 3 points. Turned things around completely in the second half to lead by 5 and fought well to hang on. Galway will be hard to beat if they meet again in the Championship

Village87 · 21-06-2021 8:48am

Grats wrote: »

That's a real shame for Delaney, and Kilkenny. He's badly needed in that full back line.

I suggested to colleagues during the week that I wouldn't be surprised if Joey walked. He's been treated poorly during the league. And now with Delaney out, management ought to regret how they dealt with Holden.

Brassil dropping out is a mystery unless his injury has forced him to.

If this is true I would not blame Holden. He is left on the bench to watch Deegan get cleaned against Waterford last year and Antrim and Clare this year.

tbiggertycome · 21-06-2021 11:24am

Joey was easily one of the top 3 defenders in the club games last year. For that to not translate to any opportunities last year I think is very poor. In fact as far as I'm aware no one was called in as a result of the club games last year. They were called in this year. They were on form last year not this year. I think Joey, Murphy and Prendergast were never forgiven in Cody's eyes for 2016 final. They were probably the one line not at fault for 16. How you can allow the half back line to play in midfield and expect the fullback line to thrive against 3 speed merchants is beyond me. I could never understand people slating the boys for that day. I could have pointed out other mistakes they made but that day was down to the rest of the team and really the sideline. How as a manager do you stand there and allow that to happen over again and allow all the space to develop in front of the fullback line. I hope Joey is not gone but if he is it's totally understandable.

brookville · 21-06-2021 11:43am

I wasn't alone here when I said for the last few months joey was getting a raw deal and at least deserved to play himself off the team.
Wallace deegan and Tommy are ahead of him and delaney has yet to come back
Fogarty and Buckley are no longer in his plans and will probably go this year.Blanchfield will also probably go
I'm all for change and freshness but while not the most stylish joey from the outside doesn't seem to be getting a fair chance and I do think he is at least as good as what's there.

MfMan · 21-06-2021 11:51am

Ger Aylward still in the squad?

brookville · 21-06-2021 12:10pm

MfMan wrote: »

Ger Aylward still in the squad?

No he and Paul Murphy finished last year

JJs Left Hand · 21-06-2021 1:39pm

Is Joey gone so? If so, what a servant. Filled a gap at full back after the greatest defender of all time left and did it admirably. Got hung out to dry numerous times and I had endless arguments about him from about 2016 to 2019. Best of luck to him if he is gone.

Village87 · 21-06-2021 3:25pm

We badly need a good under 20 campaign this year to bring in some new blood with confidence. I myself do not no many underage age hurlers as there is little exposure compared to 10/15 years ago when minor + u21 matches were massive with big names and plenty games on TV. The new u17 makes it more difficult as none of these hurled adult club compared to the old system and a lot of underage Kilkenny teams struggle to get out of Leinster which does not help exposure.
Last years u20 was one of the worst underage performances I have ever seen form a underage Kilkenny team

randd1 · 21-06-2021 5:06pm

Village87 wrote: »

We badly need a good under 20 campaign this year to bring in some new blood with confidence. I myself do not no many underage age hurlers as there is little exposure compared to 10/15 years ago when minor + u21 matches were massive with big names and plenty games on TV. The new u17 makes it more difficult as none of these hurled adult club compared to the old system and a lot of underage Kilkenny teams struggle to get out of Leinster which does not help exposure.
Last years u20 was one of the worst underage performances I have ever seen form a underage Kilkenny team

Yeah, it should return to U18 and U21.

They should also play the underage AI championships during the national league, and have it finish before the exams, and leave the younger players play the summer with their clubs.

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 MOD NOTE POST 1*