Labour's Corbyn suspended for reaction to anti-semitism report

Joe_ Public · 31-10-2020 6:08pm

end of the road wrote: »

i would agree it is very clear that a hell of a lot of people didn't give a damn about his non-existant anti-semitism given they voted for a party with a leader who is openly islamaphobic, as for the home secretry, well that's another discussion.
interestingly the conservative party are happy to be socialist when it suits them, very socialist in fact but mainly to 1 section of society, those who least need help.
those who voted for them don't actually have a problem with socialism, whether many of them of course actually know that they don't have a problem with it or not is a different story though.

what support for anti-semitism would this be? his multiple condemnations and large scale attempt to actually remove it from the party which was stifled at every opportunity by those who could not accept his election as leader? his campaign throughout his lifetime against every possible ism?
and lets not forget that the conservatives have been very happy to support terrorism and even fund it when it suits them, so anyone who voted for that party because they are apparently against anti-semitism or talking to terrorists certainly have no moral high ground what soever.
at least corbyn's dealings with terrorist groups were to at least try and bring about some sort of resolution.

that's exactly it.
ah well at least they got borris the stooj and the actual leader cummings, so i'm sure those who left labour and voted for a party who has done everything in it's power to deprive them are very happy.

his supporters apart from the odd few were in no way snobbish or arrogant. factual, absolutely but facts are what are needed, not slogans.
unless they decide themselves to leave and split the party they won't be going anywhere thankfully and there is nothing starmer can do about it.
if that means multiple decades of tory destruction then maybe that is the medicine that is needed to force much of the public in britain to get a grip, bad medicine as it will absolutely be.

Don't forget Boris Johnson and his utterly brilliant "72 Virgins" with its plethora of stereotyped characters, including one Sammy Katz with his “proud nose and curly hair”, a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. When Boris finally shakes off the shackles of the premiership, with its ludicrously penurial £160k salary or whatever it is, we might finally get that much anticipated sequel. To be entirely fair, Boris is an equal opportunities bigot when it comes to choosing his discriminatory targets.

As for labour, Starmer did attract quite a substantial left wing vote in the leadership contest on the basis of his "unity" pledge. So remains to be seen how he follows up on it. Will those on the right of the party who are screaming for a purge hold sway, those who blithely declare the need for the left to get behind the leader even though they themselves did anything but when the shoe was on the other foot? As i said, remains to be seen.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 31-10-2020 6:20pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The 'left lunacy' that Corbyn advocated is pretty much the centre in Germany (a far more economically successful and fairer country). The media melt-down over Corbyn's popularity was amazing to witness. The Cons and the City of London are up to their necks in Russian oligarchs' money and yet this was the background to an 'impartial' BBC report:

Literally photo-shopped in front of the Kremlin with a USSR blood-red filter for effect. It would put Fox News to shame.

His popularity? Labour lost seats in the last election that they had held since the 1930s.

Danzy · 31-10-2020 6:55pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

His popularity? Labour lost seats in the last election that they had held since the 1930s.

Correct.

Corbyn and his supporters were deeply unpopular, especially in working class heartlands of England.

People who ate still not over the hurt and damage of Thatcher, were forced pick the Tories as the lesser threat.

The momentum types,the Corbyn fans are electorally toxic and as far from the working class as one can get.

Joe_ Public · 31-10-2020 7:02pm

December, 2019, lifelong labour voter in the heart of former mining England ponders his big dilemma. He sees that Corbyn fella in london, with his funny beard and glasses and his cheap scruffy clothes and allotment and concludes, what a horrendous out of touch posh elitist snob that guy is, thanks his lucky stars that salt of the earth and friend of the ordinary worker and character to boot Boris Johnson is at hand as an alternative.

Danzy · 31-10-2020 7:06pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

December, 2019, lifelong labour voter in the heart of former mining England ponders his big dilemma. He sees that Corbyn fella in london, with his funny beard and glasses and his cheap scruffy clothes and allotment and concludes, what a horrendous out of touch posh elitist snob that guy is, thanks his lucky stars that salt of the earth and friend of the ordinary worker and character to boot Boris Johnson is at hand as an alternative.

No, he held his nose and voted Johnson as an act of damage limitation.

He probably puked after voting Tory but when you have 2 bad choices you go for the one that'll do least damage.

Junkyard Tom · 31-10-2020 7:13pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

His popularity? Labour lost seats in the last election that they had held since the 1930s.

For a lot of reasons, not least of all Brexit fatigue and the promise of an 'oven ready' deal.

Tbh I think having the Tories in power is better for Ireland in the medium to long term so I'm not bothered by Labour's woes. I do feel bad for the regular British people being governed by a bunch of incompetent clowns though.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 31-10-2020 7:16pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

December, 2019, lifelong labour voter in the heart of former mining England ponders his big dilemma. He sees that Corbyn fella in london, with his funny beard and glasses and his cheap scruffy clothes and allotment and concludes, what a horrendous out of touch posh elitist snob that guy is, thanks his lucky stars that salt of the earth and friend of the ordinary worker and character to boot Boris Johnson is at hand as an alternative.

Well, if this person voted Tory, what does that tell you?

Joe_ Public · 31-10-2020 7:19pm

Danzy wrote: »

No, he held his nose and voted Johnson as an act of damage limitation.

He probably puked after voting Tory but when you have 2 bad choices you go for the one that'll do least damage.

Ok, i must have misread the earlier post. If corbyn is as far from working class as you can get, then i assumed the inference was at least partly that they then felt the tories under Johnson had to be more in touch with them. In reality, labour had been bleeding votes in these areas for years, all the way back to blair in fact. It's a complex picture. Corbyn certainly didn't start that bleeding, but he did fail to find a way in which to stop it.

Danzy · 31-10-2020 7:24pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ok, i must have misread the earlier post. If corbyn is as far from working class as you can get, then i assumed the inference was at least partly that they then felt the tories under Johnson had to be more in touch with them. In reality, labour had been bleeding votes in these areas for years, all the way back to blair in fact. It's a complex picture. Corbyn certainly didn't start that bleeding, but he did fail to find a way in which to stop it.

Agree. I've nothing against the guy, disagree on many things.

He didn't cause it, he was a consequence rather than a cause.

Societal changes and changes in 1990s Labour set that train in motion.

The growing gap , a class divide, between the activist left and their old voter base is not confined to England. It's wiped out the left electorally in many European political heartlands.

Joe_ Public · 31-10-2020 7:33pm

Danzy wrote: »

Agree. I've nothing against the guy, disagree on many things.

He didn't cause it, he was a consequence rather than a cause.

Societal changes and changes in 1990s Labour set that train in motion.

The growing gap , a class divide, between the activist left and their old voter base is not confined to England. It's wiped out the left electorally in many European political heartlands.

True, on all counts. But there are caveats in that the left is doing well in Spain, Portugal, Greece and a couple of other places. Not sure of the analysis, maybe they have worked out a way in these places of getting young more progressive minded people energised and out to vote. The uk left didn't manage that and the fptp system simply meant bigger majorities in the city seats while apathy ensured too many younger voters in the north simply stayed home.

OscarMIlde · 31-10-2020 7:58pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Unusual for the BBC. They are full of lefties. Maybe someone was sick that day.

Useful idiot is how I would describe steptoe.

The BBC generally goes along with what the government of the day wants, they are a state broadcaster and depend on the government for funding. In addition, a lot of the more influential people in the politics section are Tories or Tory sympathisers. You only have to look at their credulous Brexit coverage to see their pro-government leanings.

RWCNT · 31-10-2020 8:02pm

biko wrote: »

Hmm ok.

Anyway

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-vows-to-fight-suspension-from-labour-over-antisemitism-report-reaction-12117833

I'm surprised the anti-PC, anti-Cancel Culture posters on here aren't giving him some props over this. In a world where grovelling apologies are dished out when offence is taken with none intended, Corbyn isn't having it for one second.

OscarMIlde · 31-10-2020 8:04pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

His popularity? Labour lost seats in the last election that they had held since the 1930s.

I'd blame his dithering over Brexit. He really seemed to have no firm opinion on it either way, or at least not one I ever heard him espouse, which is extraordinary when you consider how important it is to the future of the UK. He lost the eurosceptics to the Tories and split the pro remain vote by not placing Labour front and centre as the party for remain.

end of the road · 31-10-2020 8:14pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Don't forget Boris Johnson and his utterly brilliant "72 Virgins" with its plethora of stereotyped characters, including one Sammy Katz with his “proud nose and curly hair”, a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. When Boris finally shakes off the shackles of the premiership, with its ludicrously penurial £160k salary or whatever it is, we might finally get that much anticipated sequel. To be entirely fair, Boris is an equal opportunities bigot when it comes to choosing his discriminatory targets.

As for labour, Starmer did attract quite a substantial left wing vote in the leadership contest on the basis of his "unity" pledge. So remains to be seen how he follows up on it. Will those on the right of the party who are screaming for a purge hold sway, those who blithely declare the need for the left to get behind the leader even though they themselves did anything but when the shoe was on the other foot? As i said, remains to be seen.

personally based on him suspending corbyn for stating facts and speaking the truth, i think it's clear starmer is going to take labour one way and that is a way that appeals to the hard right of the party.
i reccan the more interesting thing to look out for is whether the party actually does split or whether reluctantly people will just tolerate starmer in the hope of getting the conservatives out.

biko · 31-10-2020 8:48pm

The chair of the EHRC, Caroline Waters, doesn't mince her words:

"This is inexcusable," she added, "and appeared to be a result of a lack of willingness to tackle anti-Semitism rather than an inability to do so."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54731222

biko · 31-10-2020 8:50pm

RWCNT wrote: »

I'm surprised the anti-PC, anti-Cancel Culture posters on here aren't giving him some props over this. In a world where grovelling apologies are dished out when offence is taken with none intended, Corbyn isn't having it for one second.

I don't know for sure but I suppose the people you refer to don't think it's ok to be anti-Semite.

Sonics2k · 31-10-2020 8:57pm

I'm not a fan of Corbyn, personally I think he's a bit of an insufferable knob. But what has he actually said or done that as anti-Semitic?

I know he's spoken out about the Israeli invasion of Palestine, but that's not actually anti-Semitic.

Five Eighth · 31-10-2020 8:57pm

Agree that Corbyn was punished for criticising the state of Israel and its actions in the Middle East. However, he went into the last British General Election with a very mixed message on Brexit (he was a natural socialist leaver while many southern England Labour party activists were remainers) and with McDonnell ended up making absolutely ridiculous promises to the electorate that nobody believed could ever be delivered.

Keir Starmer now has the opportunity to take on and beat the most inept Tory government in living memory.

biko · 31-10-2020 9:01pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

But what has he actually said or done that as anti-Semitic?

Really it is about him downplaying the seriousness of himself and his party to address anti-Semitic accusations.

The chair of the EHRC says Labour showed lack of willingness to tackle anti-Semitism.

There's more on the internets https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43893791

Joe_ Public · 31-10-2020 9:02pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I'd blame his dithering over Brexit. He really seemed to have no firm opinion on it either way, or at least not one I ever heard him espouse, which is extraordinary when you consider how important it is to the future of the UK. He lost the eurosceptics to the Tories and split the pro remain vote by not placing Labour front and centre as the party for remain.

Brexit was hugely damaging, that is pretty obvious. But the 2019 election result should be carefully analysed. Labour lost 54 seats directly to the tories. 52 of these were in constituencies that had voted to leave the eu. So while their remain vote held up reasonably well, their leave vote was quite decimated. While you can debate the brexit position and the rights and wrongs of it, the electoral breakdown certainly doesn't suggest that a stronger pro remain position was the route to a better result. The opposite, if anything.

Sonics2k · 31-10-2020 9:13pm

biko wrote: »

Really it is about him downplaying the seriousness of himself and his party to address anti-Semitic accusations.

The chair of the EHRC says Labour showed lack of willingness to tackle anti-Semitism.

There's more on the internets https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43893791

Oh okay, so your OP and thread topic were just plain wrong or a lie then.

The TLDR is that Corbyn himself hasn't said anything anti-semitic, but could have done more to address anti-semiticism in the party, despite him removing people from the party and previously apologising for it. When pushed to apologise again, he didn't want to. Gotcha.

Also, does nobody else take issue this this section of the article.

Anti-Zionism can be generally defined as opposition to the existence of the State of Israel. Anti-Semitism, on the other hand, means prejudice against Jewish people and has existed for centuries.

It frames it in such a way that even criticism of Israel invasion of Palestine is anti-Zionist, therefore you don't believe the state of Israel should exist. That's daft. That is text book retarded.

You can disapprove of their invasion, but not want to see Israel disappear or not exist. Just stop invading and murdering people.

I didn't approve of the US invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq, but I didn't want to see the US no longer exist.

Joe_ Public · 31-10-2020 9:31pm

end of the road wrote: »

personally based on him suspending corbyn for stating facts and speaking the truth, i think it's clear starmer is going to take labour one way and that is a way that appeals to the hard right of the party.
i reccan the more interesting thing to look out for is whether the party actually does split or whether reluctantly people will just tolerate starmer in the hope of getting the conservatives out.

If you leave the corbyn stuff aside for a moment, the hardest evidence we have so far consists of Starmer:

*upsetting bame communities by referring to blm protests as a "moment"

*talking about getting tough and bringing the law down on the people who were toppling statues in bristol and elsewhere

*whipping his mps to abstain on a government bill that, among other things, sanctions the use of torture by security forces

So while he talks about unity on the one hand, his actions suggest he will try to challenge his main opponents on a law and order ticket and base policies around the core mission of winning those so called red wall seats. If that means drifting even further right, or even the purge of the left a lot of people would like, then i wouldn't see him shying away from it.

RWCNT · 31-10-2020 9:38pm

biko wrote: »

I don't know for sure but I suppose the people you refer to don't think it's ok to be anti-Semite.

Oh sorry, was it an anti-semitic comment that got him suspended and that he has subsequently refused to apologise for? What was it he said?

biko · 31-10-2020 9:41pm

I suggest you read the articles and form your own opinion on what happened.
There was an article in the OP but that was removed by the forum mod. There are more linked in later comments.

Edit, on second thought maybe there wasn't an article in OP

RWCNT · 31-10-2020 9:49pm

biko wrote: »

I suggest you read the articles and form your own opinion on what happened.
There was an article in the OP but that was removed by the forum mod. There are more linked in later comments.

I've read plenty. The offending comment wasn't anti-semitic, hence why your thread title had to be tweaked for clarity.

Danzy · 31-10-2020 9:55pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm not a fan of Corbyn, personally I think he's a bit of an insufferable knob. But what has he actually said or done that as anti-Semitic?

I know he's spoken out about the Israeli invasion of Palestine, but that's not actually anti-Semitic.

He certainly tolerated a lit if blatant Jew Jew baiters and extreme anti semites.

Putting it as only being down to his position on Palestine is as wrong as saying he believes the Jews are a parasitic race.

Things can be said about Jews in the left today that they would not tolerate about any other.

That culture caught up with him and deservedly so.

biko · 31-10-2020 9:57pm

It was the refusal to apologise for not doing enough about anti-Semitic allegations during his reign.

Is it anti-Semitic to not investigate the allegations? In a roundabout way yes.

Labour have a anti-Semitism problem.

Under Jeremy Corbyn the party has attracted many activists with views hostile to Jews.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/18/labour-antisemitism-jews-jeremy-corbyn

The cases of Gerry Downing and Vicki Kirby certainly look pretty rotten.
The former said it was time to wrestle with the “Jewish Question”, the latter hailed Hitler as a “Zionist God” and tweeted a line about Jews having “big noses”, complete with a “lol”.

biko · 31-10-2020 10:31pm

Fun fact, the only other party ever needed to be investigated by EHRC was the British National Party.

Ekerot · 31-10-2020 10:34pm

Ironic that most British Jews are apart of the Conservatives, which, despite their support for Israel, has had quite a few questionable characters in it over the years, not least Jacob Rees Mogg ranting about the Illuminati in parliament one day.

Five Eighth · 31-10-2020 10:41pm

Before the British General Election, the Chief Rabbi was interviewed on Newsnight and claimed that if Labour won power with Corbyn as Prime Minister, then British Jews would not feel safe and many would consider leaving Britain. Credible?
For me, that interview alone showed that the knives were out for Corbyn.

Labour's Corbyn suspended for reaction to anti-semitism report

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