Labour's Corbyn suspended for reaction to anti-semitism report

biko

I suppose the difference is when your government calls Erdogan their friend it's foreign policy, but if a party leader does it then it's single party policy.

bunderoon

Danzy wrote: »

If you spent 5 minutes looking at the Labour Against Anti semitism posts , you would see a party with a severe problem and no interest in acting on it.

While Klan leaders like David Duke or Nick Griffin endorsed Corbyn for his anti semitism, I don't think he is a traditional anti semitic tosser.

He is a product of the modern left, it's identity obsessions, enjoys the radical chic of militant opposition to Israel's occupation of Palestine, turns a blind eye to the extreme antisemitism so common in most of that movement.

A friend and help to antisemites, a sneaking regarder for it.

Isnt it entirely possible that they heard from the British media that Corbyn 'is' an Antisemite, so they endorse him. As opposed to, you know, evidence that he actually is one.
Speaking of evidence, I asked a while back for some. I havent come across any yet.
Objecting to Israeli policies do not make you an anti-semite.

RWCNT

Gervais08 wrote: »

Nice deflection. Guess we won’t see any yarmulkes coming out of your house.

It's a question/comparison, if that's deflection then so is this contribution from you earlier today:

Gervais08 wrote: »

Can you point out the last time a Jew went into the streets in Europe and killed innocent people going about their normal, lawful activities - in the name of the Jewish faith ?

Spoiler alert - you won’t be able to.

The reasonable thing to do when a poster claims they'd be the first to condemn an antisemitic statement from JC, would be to provide them with an antisemitic statement from JC and await response. But no, that's too much trouble, let's just (very carefully, mind you) call them an anti-semite. Poor form

Tom Mann Centuria

Corbyn is currently not allowed back in the parliamentary Party. So he's allowed to be in Labour, and an MP, but currently not a Labour MP for whatever reason. All makes perfect sense I'm sure. Starmer is taking the death by a thousand cuts approach to this. Dragging it out is gold for the media and doesn't at all look decisive, and he can't hide behind Evans or the party for this, it's all on him.

Sand

bunderoon wrote: »

Objecting to Israeli policies do not make you an anti-semite.

I'm fairly sure it does for all intents and purposes. If Corbyn was avowedly pro-Israeli, he'd not face any accusations of antisemitism.

biko

bunderoon wrote: »

Objecting to Israeli policies do not make you an anti-semite.

I agree, Israel is a nation while Judaism is a religion.
If you think Saudi Arabi policies are deplorable it doesn't make you Islamophobic, in my opinion (others may disagree).
Judasim isn't even the state religion in Israel (like Sunni Islam is the official state religion in Saudi Arabia).

Sand

biko wrote: »

I agree, Israel is a nation while Judaism is a religion.
If you think Saudi Arabi policies are deplorable it doesn't make you Islamophobic, in my opinion (others may disagree).
Judasim isn't even the state religion in Israel (like Sunni Islam is the official state religion in Saudi Arabia).

The basic law of Israel is that Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people though. Its not a multicultural state.

biko

From PEW research
About eight-in-ten (81%) Israeli adults are Jewish, while the remainder are mostly ethnically Arab and religiously Muslim (14%), Christian (2%) or Druze (2%).
Overall, the Arab religious minorities in Israel are more religiously observant than Jews.

These groups all are largely isolated from one another socially; there is virtually no religious intermarriage in Israel, and strong majorities of Jews, Muslims, Christians and Druze say all or most of their close friends belong to their own religious group.

Sounds like regular multicultural to me.

Sand

biko wrote: »

From PEW research
About eight-in-ten (81%) Israeli adults are Jewish, while the remainder are mostly ethnically Arab and religiously Muslim (14%), Christian (2%) or Druze (2%).
Overall, the Arab religious minorities in Israel are more religiously observant than Jews.

These groups all are largely isolated from one another socially; there is virtually no religious intermarriage in Israel, and strong majorities of Jews, Muslims, Christians and Druze say all or most of their close friends belong to their own religious group.

Sounds like regular multicultural to me.

Virtually no religious intermarriage? Why is that?

biko

The anti-Semitic problem is when someone like Corbyn invites Raed Salah for tea.
Raed Salah didn't just say he disagreed with Israeli policies, he called called Jews germs.
Corbyn called Salah an "honoured citizen".

Do you know where Raed Salah lives?
He lives in Israel

Sand

biko wrote: »

The anti-Semitic problem is when someone like Corbyn invites Raed Salah for tea.
Raed Salah didn't just say he disagreed with Israeli policies, he called called Jews germs.
Corbyn called Salah an "honoured citizen".

Do you know where Raed Salah lives?
He lives in Israel

Well, he would no doubt argue he lives in occupied Palestine. He is a critic of Israel and indeed has been accused of antisemitism. He himself has conclusively rejected that claim:

"I unequivocally condemn all forms of racism, including anti- Semitism, Islamophobia, and racism towards my own people, the Palestinians."

So, I guess that is that cleared up.

Oh I checked myself why there is no religious intermarriage in Israel. Its because the state of Israel doesn't recognize interfaith marriages. That doesn't sound like a multicultural state to me.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Sand wrote: »

The basic law of Israel is that Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people though. Its not a multicultural state.

Its an apartheid state

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Israel continued to impose institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians

Danzy

Harleigh Cool Hailstone wrote: »

Its an apartheid state

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

How does it square the fundamental reality that if they allow the right to return etc etc that it will end with their extermination?

That's the key complication in this. I don't particularly like the Israeli State or how it acts.

Danzy

Sand wrote: »

Well, he would no doubt argue he lives in occupied Palestine. He is a critic of Israel and indeed has been accused of antisemitism. He himself has conclusively rejected that claim:

"I unequivocally condemn all forms of racism, including anti- Semitism, Islamophobia, and racism towards my own people, the Palestinians."

So, I guess that is that cleared up.

Oh I checked myself why there is no religious intermarriage in Israel. Its because the state of Israel doesn't recognize interfaith marriages. That doesn't sound like a multicultural state to me.

Israel isn't a multi cultural State, nor does it view itself as.

It missed, never bought into the sweeping neoliberalism of the 80s and 90s that Western Europe endured. The multi culturalism that system created.

That's an ideology thing, much of Eastern Europe missed out on that as well.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Danzy wrote: »

How does it square the fundamental reality that if they allow the right to return etc etc that it will end with their extermination?

That's the key complication in this. I don't particularly like the Israeli State or how it acts.

It's similar to our own history here in Ireland of plantation, colonization and oppression but far worse for some Palestinians who got terrorised out of their homeland. Israel has some of the most racist laws in the world

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-renews-racist-marriage-law

A lot of support in Ireland for Palestinian rights probably due to the parallels of our own history
https://www.ipsc.ie/bds-the-background

Danzy

biko wrote: »

The anti-Semitic problem is when someone like Corbyn invites Raed Salah for tea..

Raed Salah's views on Jews, gays, women, religion, cultural freedom would mark him out as a reactionary even to the most ultra fascist in Europe.

Basic human rights and decency are deeply opposed by him.

RWCNT

biko wrote: »

I agree, Israel is a nation while Judaism is a religion.
If you think Saudi Arabi policies are deplorable it doesn't make you Islamophobic, in my opinion (others may disagree).
Judasim isn't even the state religion in Israel (like Sunni Islam is the official state religion in Saudi Arabia).

Mostly agree but also worth noting that Jews are a people, some of whom may not even practise Judaism. Antisemitism is often just straight up racism, as opposed to religious bigotry, although of course it can be both at the same time.

Eric Cartman

It almost seems like they've allowed Corbyn back in just to try screw over starmer.

Corbyn and the diehard corbynistas will ensure the British Labour Party remains in opposition until they leave. A very reactionary, stalinist brand of marxism that has no place in UK politics. Alienating ordinary working class British people.

joemurt

Gervais08 wrote: »

Can you point out the last time a Jew went into the streets in Europe and killed innocent people going about their normal, lawful activities - in the name of the Jewish faith ?

Spoiler alert - you won’t be able to.

The Lillehammer affair was the killing by Mossad agents of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.


You owe everyone on this thread an apology. Tut, tut. They also murdered someone in Italy a couple of weeks ago.



Also fUnFaCt - ''
The @EHRC
's three new commissioners are a Tory Lord, the daughter of a Tory Politician and David Goodhart. No investigation into institutional anti-Semitism and Islamophobia within the Conservative Party for the foreseeable then...


https://twitter.com/sensiblehuman96/status/1326956396114563075

Junkyard Tom

There was/is definitely an issue with antisemitism in the Labour Party but it became practically impossible to discern where the problem ended and a witch-hunt against Corbyn (or more accurately the policies he advocated) began.

I was trying to follow the issue on Twitter but gave up and just started watching David Schneider for cues as he's Jewish and a Labour supporter and points it out. I suppose prejudice against minorities is a constant issue so it's something that needs constant attention.

joemurt

biko wrote: »

The old thread on his anti-Semitism is now archived

You know Irish law differs from the UK, right?


Is this type of comment really worth risking your house for?

bunderoon

biko wrote: »

The anti-Semitic problem is when someone like Corbyn invites Raed Salah for tea.
Raed Salah didn't just say he disagreed with Israeli policies, he called called Jews germs.
Corbyn called Salah an "honoured citizen".

Do you know where Raed Salah lives?
He lives in Israel

Can you show us exactly where he said that? As that's a shocking thing to say, if true. If you cant, you shouldnt say that he did.

joemurt

David Schneider - yikes - as useful as following Rachel Riley. The things grifters do for money.

The EHRC found 2 cases of antisemitism out of a sample of 70 cases in their report. They had to revise and edit their report numerous times because it was libelous.

More anti Jewish racism in the Conservative party but that was overlooked by the powers that be because, unlike Corbyns Labour, they didn't have a pledge in their manifesto to stop selling weapons to Isral and SA, which is nice......

What I can't figure out is if racism was such a problem within Corbyns Labour, why has Starmer not removed thousands and thousands of members from the party? He only seems to be interested in removing Corbyn.

bunderoon

Sand wrote: »

I'm fairly sure it does for all intents and purposes. If Corbyn was avowedly pro-Israeli, he'd not face any accusations of antisemitism.

The point being missed here is that the charge of antisemitism is levelled against those who criticize Israel for their actions, home and abroad.
And that is incorrect.

Junkyard Tom

joemurt wrote: »

David Schneider - yikes - as useful as following Rachel Riley. The things grifters do for money.

Not a chance, he's very thoughtful and cares about the Labour Party. Rachel Riley seemed almost unhinged about the whole thing.

More anti Jewish racism in the Conservative party but that was overlooked by the powers that be because, unlike Corbyns Labour, they didn't have a pledge in their manifesto to stop selling weapons to Isral and SA, which is nice......

Oh for sure but that's whataboutery. The Labour Party is supposed to be anti-racist so should hold itself to a higher standard.

What I can't figure out is if racism was such a problem within Corbyns Labour, why has Starmer not removed thousands and thousands of members from the party? He only seems to be interested in removing Corbyn.

Yep, there were elements within the Labour Party who despise the anti-Blair side of the Party which is the side where my sympathies would lie myself.

Gervais08

joemurt wrote: »

The Lillehammer affair was the killing by Mossad agents of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.


You owe everyone on this thread an apology. Tut, tut. They also murdered someone in Italy a couple of weeks ago.



Also fUnFaCt - ''
The @EHRC
's three new commissioners are a Tory Lord, the daughter of a Tory Politician and David Goodhart. No investigation into institutional anti-Semitism and Islamophobia within the Conservative Party for the foreseeable then...


https://twitter.com/sensiblehuman96/status/1326956396114563075

Bad faith posting I’m afraid - that was a Mossad assassination and a **** up where they got the wrong person.

Not the same clearly!!!

And you think I “owe everyone an apology”?? Behave eh ?

biko

bunderoon wrote: »

Can you show us exactly where he said that? As that's a shocking thing to say, if true. If you cant, you shouldnt say that he did.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-s-not-an-anti-semite-he-s-just-very-unlucky

In 2011, Corbyn called Islamic Movement preacher Raed Salah a ‘very honoured citizen’, shortly before all that weirdness in which Salah was charged with inciting racism and violence against Jews and sentenced to eight months in chokey in Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

Taken tea on the parliamentary terrace with Raed Salah, who he described as “a very honoured citizen” despite that fact that Salah was charged with inciting anti-Jewish racism and violence in January 2008 in Jerusalem and sentenced to eight months in prison. He was found by a British court judge to have used the “blood libel”, the medieval antisemitic canard that Jews use gentile blood for ritual purposes;

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10491940/footage-shows-jeremy-corbyn-embracing-islamic-hate-preacher-who-was-jailed-over-hamas-fundraising/

Yet the new clip – which emerged today – showed Corbyn shaking the cleric’s hand at the same meeting where he called him an “honoured citizen” and invited him for tea in Parliament.

A second clip shows the men embracing as they leave the venue.

bunderoon

biko wrote: »

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-s-not-an-anti-semite-he-s-just-very-unlucky

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10491940/footage-shows-jeremy-corbyn-embracing-islamic-hate-preacher-who-was-jailed-over-hamas-fundraising/

These are just various news reports..
Can you show me where he said that they were germs?

quokula

biko wrote: »

Jews are leaving many previously safe countries.
Headlines unheard of for many decades are making a recent comeback:

• 1 in 3 British Jews have considered leaving the UK due to rising antisemitism.
• Europe's Jews Are Resisting a Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism
• Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes
• Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?

It seems somehow in the last 20 years the Brits and other Europeans have become quite anti-Semitic.

All of this due to the rise of right wing populism and its enablers like the British Tories. To then try and turn it around and blame one of the few politicians who's spent his life fighting against racism is almost laughable.

biko

bunderoon wrote: »

These are just various news reports..
Can you show me where he said that they were germs?

Oh, by "he" you mean Salah and not Corbyn?

I posted the quote from Washington Post earlier
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/16/labour-dissidents-decry-partys-anti-semitism-corbynites-attack-messenger/

“Panorama” showed us a clip of the cleric Raed Salah, in its words “a notorious anti-Semitic preacher who had called Jews ‘the Germs of all time,’”
and then followed it with a clip of Corbyn inviting Salah to tea at the House of Commons in 2012 because “he’ll deserve it.”

biko

quokula wrote: »

All of this due to the rise of right wing populism and its enablers like the British Tories.

That seems odd. Can you show sources backing you up that all of this (100%) is because of right-wing populism?

This New York Times piece says it's from all sides.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/04/world/europe/antisemitism-europe-united-states.html

This Atlantic piece agrees with NYT.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/seventy-five-years-after-auschwitz-anti-semitism-is-on-the-rise/605452/

https://www.survation.com/new-polling-of-british-jews-shows-tensions-remain-strong-between-labour-and-the-british-jewish-community/

2019

The poll, conducted using Survation’s telephone panel of Jewish adults in Great Britain, found that 86% of respondents believe that there are high levels of antisemitism among Labour Party members and elected representatives (4 and 5 on a 1 to 5 scale where 1 represented low levels of antisemitism and 5 represented high levels), the same percentage as in 2018. Only 6% felt there were similar levels of antisemitism within the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, with 46% stating that UKIP had high levels of antisemitism.

bunderoon

biko wrote: »

Oh, by "he" you mean Salah and not Corbyn?

I posted the quote from Washington Post earlier
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/16/labour-dissidents-decry-partys-anti-semitism-corbynites-attack-messenger/

More news links. Do we have any links to the direct footage or links to the published works from this fella (never heard of him before) or is it just links to news reports?

I ask, as otherwise its just random nobodys on the internet calling people names/labels without proof. Just like calling Corbyn an antisemite without actual proof (not 2nd hand news links of 'situations').

Both may well be. But we shouldn't called them something like this until you have actual proof. We know how corrupt news organisations are.

Funny things about words. You may or may not be Jewish Biko. So can people start calling you an Antigentile or a self hating gentile for spreading unsubstantiated claims about others?

bunderoon

biko wrote: »

That seems odd. Can you show sources backing you up that all of this (100%) is because of right-wing populism?

This New York Times piece says it's from all sides.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/04/world/europe/antisemitism-europe-united-states.html

This Atlantic piece agrees with NYT.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/seventy-five-years-after-auschwitz-anti-semitism-is-on-the-rise/605452/

https://www.survation.com/new-polling-of-british-jews-shows-tensions-remain-strong-between-labour-and-the-british-jewish-community/

2019

Is this poll the opinion of these people from what they've read/heard or what they've actually experienced from these party members? Highly doubt its due to meetings with party members. Have any of us met lots of FF/FG/SF party members? Of course not. So how is this poll measured? Makes hardly any sense, yet you have put it here as some sort of proof to what you are saying previously.

As I said before, we shouldnt post unproven subjective stuff on this thread. It's silly and disingenuous.

biko

bunderoon wrote: »

More news links. Do we have any links to the direct footage or links to the published works from this fella (never heard of him before) or is it just links to news reports?

Do you think Washington Post is wrong?
Why don't you believe them?

It is kinda odd how I provide sources but you just cast the facts aside.

breezy1985

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It almost seems like they've allowed Corbyn back in just to try screw over starmer.

Corbyn and the diehard corbynistas will ensure the British Labour Party remains in opposition until they leave. A very reactionary, stalinist brand of marxism that has no place in UK politics. Alienating ordinary working class British people.

I know it's anecdotal but all the working class British people I knew voted for him including many from up North England. And i a working class Irishman also voted for him.

ancapailldorcha

breezy1985 wrote: »

I know it's anecdotal but all the working class British people I knew voted for him including many from up North. And i a working class Irishman also voted for him.

Too many didn't though. That's the problem. I voted Labour in 2019 because I wanted a People's Vote. If that wasn't on the agenda then I'd have voted Lib Dem.

bunderoon

biko wrote: »

Do you think Washington Post is wrong?
Why don't you believe them?

It is kinda odd how I provide sources but you just cast the facts aside.

This is the thing. WE dont know if Washington Post is right or wrong. Do they have an agenda/bias as do most big publications and TV news companies.

Its not odd at all. You provide news links, but not actual evidence/facts.

Three simple, yet massive examples of how media get things wrong:
1) Trump becoming president.
2) Brexit going ahead.
3) Coronavirus is just a flu and not more harmless than the flu.

Its simple. You call someone something, back it up with evidence, not he said/she said. Otherwise it just looks foolish.

biko

bunderoon wrote: »

This is the thing. WE dont know if Washington Post is right or wrong. Do they have an agenda/bias as do most big publications and TV news companies.

Its not odd at all. You provide news links, but not actual evidence/facts.

People trust news, that is the whole point of real journalism - to be truthful.
RTE started 'Truth Matters' to point that out.
Journalists on major news sites make damn sure to have fact-checked everything.

But, if you don't want to believe the news, how can you be sure of anything at all?
I think maybe there is nothing else I can do for you. I can only lead you to the water.

breezy1985

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Too many didn't though. That's the problem. I voted Labour in 2019 because I wanted a People's Vote. If that wasn't on the agenda then I'd have voted Lib Dem.

Some do some don't. My problem with Mr. Cartman is this "ordinary working class people" thing of pretending to care but actually just perpetuating the stereotype that we are all the Workington man eating our Gregg's pasties in our white vans for lunch. It's another attempt to keep us in our place by invalidating and working class people who are progressive, 3rd level educated or not white

bunderoon

biko wrote: »

People trust news, that is the whole point of real journalism - to be truthful.
RTE started 'Truth Matters' to point that out.
Journalists on major news sites make damn sure to have fact-checked everything.

But, if you don't want to believe the news, how can you be sure of anything at all?
I think maybe there is nothing else I can do for you. I can only lead you to the water.

People are lead by news these days. Hardly anyone truly trusts news 'companies'.
I dont want opinion pieces based on no evidence. Like you, I;d want THE news and with footage/evidence/proof of it happening.
RTE, christ, what can anyone say about that crowd.
How do you know that Journalists on major news sites make damn sure to have fact-checked everything? Have you proof?

An example of a reporter/editor/write for the New York Times - Bari Weiss.
Google that Joe Rogan interview. If you havent seen it, you will be shocked at the amount of unsubstantiated claims she makes.
And if you would form your opinion from a reporters ill-informed opinion, then it leads us to here - this very thread. An echochamber of nonsense.

Dont lead people to water when you havent checked the quality of that water.

Danzy

breezy1985 wrote: »

Some do some don't. My problem with Mr. Cartman is this "ordinary working class people" thing of pretending to care but actually just perpetuating the stereotype that we are all the Workington man eating our Gregg's pasties in our white vans for lunch. It's another attempt to keep us in our place by invalidating and working class people who are progressive, 3rd level educated or not white

It's not in validating, it's pointing out that the majority of the working class do not support Labour now.

That's a major crisis for the party and why it suffered a defeat not seen since the 1930s.

The class divide between modern left parties and the working class is not confined to one country.

It's a class divide, it's a values divide but it is also a divide between those, regardless of class etc who benefit from globalization and neoliberalism vs those who do not.

Danzy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It almost seems like they've allowed Corbyn back in just to try screw over starmer.

Corbyn and the diehard corbynistas will ensure the British Labour Party remains in opposition until they leave. A very reactionary, stalinist brand of marxism that has no place in UK politics. Alienating ordinary working class British people.

They would prefer the safety and purity of opposition to the reality of power.

The right looks for converts and the left looks for heretics.

joemurt

Gervais08 wrote: »

Bad faith posting I’m afraid - that was a Mossad assassination and a **** up where they got the wrong person.

Not the same clearly!!!

And you think I “owe everyone an apology”?? Behave eh ?

Not bad faith at all mate.


You set the criteria. I matched it. Facts are facts. Sorry if they make you look silly.


You should apologize.



Own your mistake.

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

People trust news, that is the whole point of real journalism - to be truthful.
RTE started 'Truth Matters' to point that out.
Journalists on major news sites make damn sure to have fact-checked everything.

But, if you don't want to believe the news, how can you be sure of anything at all?
I think maybe there is nothing else I can do for you. I can only lead you to the water.

Check any US Politics thread on this site and you'll see Trump supporters throwing out "MSM" and "fake news" everywhere. I've seen you smugly dismiss opinions you don't like without even reading them so this just rings hollow.

I don't deny Labour's antisemitism problem, either its existence or that the leadership should have done a lot more about it. However, concern from tabloids, blogs and so on reeks of dis-ingenuity.

joemurt

biko wrote: »

It was to my point that Jews in Europe are again threatened by anti-Semitism, and when one of the major parties in Britain can't stem it then it doesn't bode well for the future.

If the refugees we welcome now hate the refugees we welcomed previously, what responsibility lies with us?

Didn't the PM of Israels son have to apologize for being an anti Semite? Doesn't set a great standard for everyone else, does it?



When you start to include anti racists like Corbyn in these 'figures' of rising anti semitism across Europe people will tend not to put to much weight into them. Which isn't great for the Jewish people across Europe.

breezy1985

Danzy wrote: »

It's not in validating, it's pointing out that the majority of the working class do not support Labour now.

That's a major crisis for the party and why it suffered a defeat not seen since the 1930s.

The class divide between modern left parties and the working class is not confined to one country.

It's a class divide, it's a values divide but it is also a divide between those, regardless of class etc who benefit from globalization and neoliberalism vs those who do not.

Your missing my point. It's this specific reference to the "ordinary work class person". I don't ever hear people talk about alienating the ordinary upper class person. The "ordinary working class person" is a fake construct

biko

joemurt wrote: »

Didn't the PM of Israels son have to apologize for being an anti Semite?

I don't know. Until you have a source it didn't happen.

joemurt

And don't put to much credibilty into anything sited by the 'campaign against anti Semitism' twitter handle.

I believe the bloke who runs it thinks it perfectly exceptable for Labour members to discuss if Nazi's who killed millions of Jewish people are hot or not........which is pretty bizarre.

joemurt

biko wrote: »

I don't know. Until you have a source it didn't happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/13/netanyahu-son-yair-antisemitic-cartoon-george-soros


I might be wrong about him apologizing. Maybe he didn't.

biko

I suppose it goes to show that anyone can do or say something anti-Semitic, also Jewish people.
Is it an excuse? No.