Labour's Corbyn suspended for reaction to anti-semitism report

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The extreme nationalists / alt right have no power in britain. Labour is going to need more towards tony blair than corbyn if it ever wants to see power again. British people arent willing to destroy the middle class and the professional class to hand more money to those feeding off the welfare system.

well it seems that this isn't the case given the tory majority.
it looks like many british people are in fact happy to destroy as many classes as they can to hand more money to the small wealthy illetes feeding off the tories special wellfare system.


so yes, they are happy to see individuals get more money from a form of wellfare system, but not those who genuinely need it get it from the actual wellfare system.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Give me 2 examples of how blair shafted the actual working class. Nothing about benefits payments please

you have a ridiculous obsession with a few measly benefits payments.
the world does not revolve around benefits, you need to get over it and except they exist and will continue to do so.

Sonics2k

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He even had a forward in an antiSemitic book,

British labour needs to get back to tony blairs labour, Corbyns labour was toxic and completely unelectable

ahahaha nice try but no Eric, try harder.

Corbyn wrote a forward for a book from 1902 called Imperialism: A Study, which is itself a massively influential book at the subject of many studies in pretty much any socio-political course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism_(Hobson)

While it is certainly true that Hobson himself had some certainly unsavory and questionable views on the Jewish financial families (namely the Rothschilds), the book itself is really more about how Capitalism itself doesn't have to become Imperialism, and that redistribution of wealth was important to the strong maintenance of a society. You may as well claim that Corbyn is also a racist towards Africans as Hobson also had some highly racist views towards black people.

Here's a Guardian article (ugh) that breaks it down. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/may/02/jeremy-corbyn-hobsons-imperialism-and-antisemitism

Here's the actual forward, which includes his criticisms of the book.

http://www.spokesmanbooks.com/Spokesman/PDF/130Corbyn.pdf

fiveleavesleft

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Personally, i'm not convinced the party is on a legally solid footing in taking the action it did.

Will be interesting to watch this. Much is made of how meticulous, forensic & clinical Starmer is. So he must be confident he has everything covered but as you say things look a little off.

Tom Mann Centuria

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Personally, i'm not convinced the party is on a legally solid footing in taking the action it did.

Great rundown from Alex Nunn (who is in no way impartial but states the facts of the suspension very well indeed), this Twitter thread completely reinforces what you've posted.

https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1322886257215709185?s=20

suicide_circus

It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

Tom Mann Centuria

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

I don't think he had any involvement in deciding whether he should be suspended or not. That would be a bit of a breakdown of the process were that the case.

ExMachina1000

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Every single one of them is deflecting from corbyns antisemitism and marking it as an invention of the right or only an issue on the right... its exactly my point

Mine also

MontgomeryClift

bunderoon wrote: »

Can anyone give actual proof and examples of his alleged antisemitism?

...

RWCNT

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

...

Very antisemitic aura off those three dots.

Strumms

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

Jeremy didn’t look, sound, act or appeal to people as a potential prime minister. He didn’t appeal to the electorate or his party colleagues in the end.

It’s been over 10 years since Labour have been in government. It’s been a mess.

Miliband had all the appeal of a castrated duck.

Corbyn despite up against a reasonably uninspiring Theresa May, couldn’t make an impact, didn’t have appeal at any level. A decent leader could have wiped the floor with her.

10 years of rather bland, uninspiring leadership and leadership choices. Starmer will need to up his and Labour’s game.

joseywhales

When did 'not being liked' get you suspended from your job?

Maybe that's a naive question. Shall we investigate all party members of all parties for immorality and suspend all party leaders who do not investigate and expell all those who stand accussed?

I don't care about Corbyn or british politics in general, apart from entertainment but this whole Corbyn is anti-semitic thing seems like complete BS. How long have we been hearing about it but I've yet to see evidence.

Dyr

I have to admit, I underestimated the power of the Israeli lobby, to be able to have Corbyn and his pals repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot and then in the head was quite an achievement

Labour not being able to keep a lid on the ansemitism of its far left loons and Muslim members was due to a Zionist consipriacy. Theres a nice circular logic to that.

fiveleavesleft

See Angela Rayner (Deputy Leader) has said what Corbyn said was the truth. She herself is accused of being an anti-semite for quoting Norman Finkelstein. Will Starmer move against her?

bunderoon

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

...

Seriously. Anyone?
Or is it the case he doesnt support somd of their policies and if you do that, you're labelled an antisemitie.

If a Jewish person calls him one (knowing hes not) does that make that person guilty of Anti-gentilism?
If not, why not.

Strumms

I don’t like or agree with many of the Israeli polices in the Middle East. I don’t think this makes me anti Semitic, a hater of Jewish people, Israelis... if an Israeli person was critical of Irish political views, foreign policy, whatever... it’s a democracy, doesn’t make them anti Irish. No more then it makes anybody else anti Semitic in the same context...

Anti Semitic: varying definitions but in and around...

The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews.

Hangdogroad

When Tracey Ullman did a sketch taking the piss out of him even that was labelled a Zionist conspiracy by ironically, another standup comedian, cant be bothered looking him up but dont think he was someone most people would have heard up.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t like or agree with many of the Israeli polices in the Middle East. I don’t think this makes me anti Semitic, a hater of Jewish people, Israelis... if an Israeli person was critical of Irish political views, foreign policy, whatever... it’s a democracy, doesn’t make them anti Irish. No more then it makes anybody else anti Semitic in the same context...

Anti Semitic: varying definitions but in and around...

The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews.

They have pushed for any criticism of Israel to be branded as anti semitic.

It's crazy considering Israel was discovered Interfering with British democracy and yet the UK media barely gave that any coverage compared to alleged anti semitism in the Labor party

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/investigations/2017/1/10/the-lobby-young-friends-of-israel-part-1/

Well worth watching, they did a similar documentary in the US but Israel managed to have that blocked from airing, it got leaked and is available here:

https://electronicintifada.net/content/watch-film-israel-lobby-didnt-want-you-see/25876

Tom Mann Centuria

Peter Oborne's take on the report.

https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1322463086180212736?s=20

And he certainly isn't a natural ally of Corbyn.

fiveleavesleft

He's back.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/labour-reinstates-corbyn-after-suspension-over-anti-semitism-report-1.4411940

diaper dude

Intelligent, kind, charismatic (in his way) and fair minded, but he messed up on Brexit. Was trying to appeal to both sides but should have been transparent from the start instead of leaving people guessing.The antisemitism thing was entirely concocted. The Guardian ran a constant two year smear campaign on him, no let up at all.

end of the road

a victory for common sense, he should never have been suspended in the first place, he spoke the truth.

biko

Israel advocacy movement aren't happy

https://twitter.com/israel_advocacy/status/1328800116002713606?s=19

riffmongous

biko wrote: »

Israel advocacy movement aren't happy

And who are the Israel Advocacy Movement?

Danzy

Labour's response is to give the Jews two fingers.

suicide_circus

There are about 300,000 Jews in the UK and falling.

There are about 3.5 million Muslims in the UK and rising.

Numbers game, innit.

biko

Jews are leaving many previously safe countries.
Headlines unheard of for many decades are making a recent comeback:

• 1 in 3 British Jews have considered leaving the UK due to rising antisemitism.
• Europe's Jews Are Resisting a Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism
• Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes
• Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?

It seems somehow in the last 20 years the Brits and other Europeans have become quite anti-Semitic.

RWCNT

Such a stupid decision from Starmer.

Corbyn was always going to be let back in - making Starmer look weak, despite the decision being practically out of his hands. The Jewish organisations now incredibly angry with him, the left wing of the party not going to be quick to forgive and ample opportunity for the detractors the left in general to continue shouting "racist" in Labour's direction.

No idea what Starmer thought he'd get out of it. Draws serious questions about his strategic acumen.

Gervais08

end of the road wrote: »

a victory for common sense, he should never have been suspended in the first place, he spoke the truth.

Please give one example of an antisemitic statement he uttered that you believe is “the truth”.

biko

riffmongous wrote: »

And who are the Israel Advocacy Movement?

Do you agree or disagree with their Twitter statements?
Which one strikes you the most to not be true?

• Laying wreaths for Jew murderers
• Calling genocidal terrorists friends
• Giving money to Holocaust deniers
• Praising preachers who call Jews germs
• Writing forewords to antisemitic books

My favourite https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/16/labour-dissidents-decry-partys-anti-semitism-corbynites-attack-messenger/
“Panorama” showed us a clip of the cleric Raed Salah, in its words “a notorious anti-Semitic preacher who had called Jews ‘the Germs of all time,’”
and then followed it with a clip of Corbyn inviting Salah to tea at the House of Commons in 2012 because “he’ll deserve it.”
What merits tea at the House of Commons is moot. But the idea that Corbyn wouldn’t have known whom he was inviting is hard to sustain.

Gentlemanne

I'm not going to miss the irony in seeing the same users that post disdainfully about muslims for tens of pages in other threads coming in here and uncritically accepting that not only is Corbyn anti-semitic but that his anti-semitism is a massive character flaw.

biko

Trying to detract from the issue at hand by character assassination.
That's an old technique but still used I see.

Is it working?

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

Trying to detract from the issue at hand by character assassination.
That's an old technique but still used I see.

Is it working?

Well you've presented no evidence so I see no reason to entertain your claims.

Gentlemanne

biko wrote: »

Trying to detract from the issue at hand by character assassination

This is literally what happened to Jeremy Corbyn lol

biko

Cool, maybe now it's out of your systems and we can get back to Corbyn.

I showed one case above from WP.
Do you think this case didn't happen as described in the paper? Corbyn did not invite a know anti-Semitic to tea in the House of Commons?

Gervais08

Gentlemanne wrote: »

I'm not going to miss the irony in seeing the same users that post disdainfully about muslims for tens of pages in other threads coming in here and uncritically accepting that not only is Corbyn anti-semitic but that his anti-semitism is a massive character flaw.

Can you point out the last time a Jew went into the streets in Europe and killed innocent people going about their normal, lawful activities - in the name of the Jewish faith ?

Spoiler alert - you won’t be able to.

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

Jews are leaving many previously safe countries.
Headlines unheard of for many decades are making a recent comeback:

• 1 in 3 British Jews have considered leaving the UK due to rising antisemitism.
• Europe's Jews Are Resisting a Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism
• Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes
• Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?

It seems somehow in the last 20 years the Brits and other Europeans have become quite anti-Semitic.

Source?

Gervais08

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Source?

Try Google. It’s all there.

Gentlemanne

Gentlemanne wrote: »

I'm not going to miss the irony in seeing the same users that post disdainfully about muslims for tens of pages in other threads coming in here and uncritically accepting that not only is Corbyn anti-semitic but that his anti-semitism is a massive character flaw.

Tis quite amusing alright.

ancapailldorcha

Gervais08 wrote: »

Try Google. It’s all there.

Nothing then so. Grand.

fiveleavesleft

Starmer is now saying he won't restore the whip to Corbyn. Which keeps the whole mess going till he inevitably restores it. Starmer seems to think the best solution is to keep digging:D.

Gervais08

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Nothing then so. Grand.

No way am arguing with a Moderator - it’s there though.

Go to https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45030552

biko

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Source?

Those are googleable actual headlines.

If you google "Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes"
https://www.google.com/search?q=Jews+leave+Swedish+city+after+sharp+rise+in+anti-Semitic+hate+crimes
then the first hit will be the headline.

conorhal

suicide_circus wrote: »

There are about 300,000 Jews in the UK and falling.

There are about 3.5 million Muslims in the UK and rising.

Numbers game, innit.

Indeed, after Corbyn's rejection of the working class in favour of the lumpen proletariat of Islamism voters (on whom Labour is increasingly dependent for votes), the cope coming from all those that pretend that both Corbyn and Labour don't just tolerate but actively pander to their anti-Semitism is kind of funny.
You only have to look at the gender segregated meetings that Labour hold to cater to 'certain voters' to know that Labour is a very cold house for The Chosen people.

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

Those are googleable actual headlines.

If you google "Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes"
https://www.google.com/search?q=Jews+leave+Swedish+city+after+sharp+rise+in+anti-Semitic+hate+crimes
then the first hit will be the headline.

Paywalled and nothing to do with Jeremy Corbyn anyway.

biko

Previous PM Teresa May demands apology from Corbyn on anti-semitism in Labour Party 2019.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr2sQJsIjxI

biko

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Paywalled and nothing to do with Jeremy Corbyn anyway.

It was to my point that Jews in Europe are again threatened by anti-Semitism, and when one of the major parties in Britain can't stem it then it doesn't bode well for the future.

If the refugees we welcome now hate the refugees we welcomed previously, what responsibility lies with us?

.anon.

biko wrote: »

Trying to detract from the issue at hand by character assassination.
That's an old technique but still used I see.

Is it working?

It sure as fuck worked against Corbyn. Took a long time, with some particularly embarrassing nonsense along the way (anyone remember the 'communist spy' allegations?) but they got there in the end.

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

It was to my point that Jews in Europe are again threatened by anti-Semitism, and when one of the major parties in Britain can't stem it then it doesn't bode well for the future.

If the refugees we welcome now hate the refugees we welcomed previously, what responsibility lies with us?

What about the party that's been in power for a decade?

I have no interest in your weird obsession with refugees. They've never been welcomed to the UK.

Danzy

biko wrote: »

Cool, maybe now it's out of your systems and we can get back to Corbyn.

I showed one case above from WP.
Do you think this case didn't happen as described in the paper? Corbyn did not invite a know anti-Semitic to tea in the House of Commons?

If you spent 5 minutes looking at the Labour Against Anti semitism posts , you would see a party with a severe problem and no interest in acting on it.

While Klan leaders like David Duke or Nick Griffin endorsed Corbyn for his anti semitism, I don't think he is a traditional anti semitic tosser.

He is a product of the modern left, it's identity obsessions, enjoys the radical chic of militant opposition to Israel's occupation of Palestine, turns a blind eye to the extreme antisemitism so common in most of that movement.

A friend and help to antisemites, a sneaking regarder for it.

end of the road

Gervais08 wrote: »

Please give one example of an antisemitic statement he uttered that you believe is “the truth”.

i can't given he hasn't made any antisemetic statements.
if he had done so, i would be one of the first here to have condemned it.

biko wrote: »

Do you agree or disagree with their Twitter statements?
Which one strikes you the most to not be true?

Laying wreaths for Jew murderers
Calling genocidal terrorists friends
Giving money to Holocaust deniers
Praising preachers who call Jews germs
Writing forewords to antisemitic books


My favourite https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/16/labour-dissidents-decry-partys-anti-semitism-corbynites-attack-messenger/
“Panorama” showed us a clip of the cleric Raed Salah, in its words “a notorious anti-Semitic preacher who had called Jews ‘the Germs of all time,’”
and then followed it with a clip of Corbyn inviting Salah to tea at the House of Commons in 2012 because “he’ll deserve it.”
What merits tea at the House of Commons is moot. But the idea that Corbyn wouldn’t have known whom he was inviting is hard to sustain.

the british government have been calling all sorts of genocidal terrorists friends throughout it's history, so why has this suddenly become an issue because corbyn does the same, all be it for genuine if naive reasons.