Labour's Corbyn suspended for reaction to anti-semitism report

suicide_circus

LP in a tough spot generally...a hostage to the identity politics crowd who their traditional voter base has no time for. Would they not be better off going to the Lib Dems?

Silentcorner

suicide_circus wrote: »

LP in a tough spot generally...a hostage to the identity politics crowd who their traditional voter base has no time for. Would they not be better off going to the Lib Dems?

Ya...looks like their methods of electing candidates over the last 10-15 years has truly backfired on them and will do for some time to come...take a look at what demographic voted for them in the last election in the greatest numbers....the under 30s and Muslim....one group believe in multi genders and the other, well, don't, they do share a hatred of one group though....

Identity politics is a scourge.

end of the road

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ya...looks like their methods of electing candidates over the last 10-15 years has truly backfired on them and will do for some time to come...take a look at what demographic voted for them in the last election in the greatest numbers....the under 30s and Muslim....one group believe in multi genders and the other, well, don't, they do share a hatred of one group though....

Identity politics is a scourge.

it is, but while it exists across the board, then you will see the likes of borris in power unless like the US, they have an awakening and a reality check.

Danzy

suicide_circus wrote: »

LP in a tough spot generally...a hostage to the identity politics crowd who their traditional voter base has no time for. Would they not be better off going to the Lib Dems?

The Lib Dems don't exist in any meaningful way in most of England.

You'd have to suspect that when the arrogant snobs have finished Labour, that they will migrate to the Lib Dems.

I think Labour is finished. It's hard to think of any capable MPs they have, while many of their most prominent are truly bizarre at times.

One of the basic reasons Labour died in Scotland was the amount of abuse and insult they heaped on the doorstep of Life long voters who said they were backing independence.

The merits of that cause aside. Labour must realize that you can't go canvassing and scream at people on their own fooking door step.

You can't talk and act like you have a profound contempt for your own voters.

Snobbery has killed the left across Europe.

Mike Murdock

Danzy wrote: »

The Lib Dems don't exist in any meaningful way in most of England.

You'd have to suspect that when the arrogant snobs have finished Labour, that they will migrate to the Lib Dems.

I think Labour is finished. It's hard to think of any capable MPs they have, while many of their most prominent are truly bizarre at times.

One of the basic reasons Labour died in Scotland was the amount of abuse and insult they heaped on the doorstep of Life long voters who said they were backing independence.

The merits of that cause aside. Labour must realize that you can't go canvassing and scream at people on their own fooking door step.

You can't talk and act like you have a profound contempt for your own voters.

Snobbery has killed the left across Europe.

You got it in one, Danzy.

The Progressive Left actively despise the "Working Class", but need their votes.

end of the road

Danzy wrote: »

The Lib Dems don't exist in any meaningful way in most of England.

You'd have to suspect that when the arrogant snobs have finished Labour, that they will migrate to the Lib Dems.

I think Labour is finished. It's hard to think of any capable MPs they have, while many of their most prominent are truly bizarre at times.

One of the basic reasons Labour died in Scotland was the amount of abuse and insult they heaped on the doorstep of Life long voters who said they were backing independence.

The merits of that cause aside. Labour must realize that you can't go canvassing and scream at people on their own fooking door step.

You can't talk and act like you have a profound contempt for your own voters.

Snobbery has killed the left across Europe.

well, it seems to be going perfectly well for the tories as a strategy, contempt for the same voters yet get a land slide.
so obviously snobbery and any of the other issues that are claimed as reasons for not voting for labour or whatever other party aren't really that much of an issue given people are ultimately happy to vote for a party that has the same issues and more.
europe is mostly a centrist model of government, only a couple of countries falling to hard right types and apart from perhapse the uk which is going through an identity crisis, it's just a phase as the hard right always show their true colors in the end.

Mike Murdock wrote: »

You got it in one, Danzy.

The Progressive Left actively despise the "Working Class", but need their votes.

funnily enough, the progressive left aren't the only left available.

Eric Cartman

Mike Murdock wrote: »

You got it in one, Danzy.

The Progressive Left actively despise the "Working Class", but need their votes.

This is it, and you can see it in their words,

Any discussion of migration : “id rather live next to a <minority> than a <favourite slur for working class>

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is it, and you can see it in their words,

Any discussion of migration : “id rather live next to a <minority> than a <favourite slur for working class>

pot kettle in fairness.

Mike Murdock

end of the road wrote: »

funnily enough, the progressive left aren't the only left available.

They are the ones vocally and visibly driving the narrative of most Western Left Wing parties/movements, EOTR.

suicide_circus

end of the road wrote: »

funnily enough, the progressive left aren't the only left available.

Please tell me who they are so i can vote for them

end of the road

Mike Murdock wrote: »

They are the ones vocally and visibly driving the narrative of most Western Left Wing parties/movements, EOTR.

and most people in ireland and even europe agree with most parts of that narrative hence most of europe having a centre or near the centre government.

as i said, there is a reason why only a couple of countries have fallen for the snake oil being sold by the hard right, because they generally show their true colors.

Eric Cartman

end of the road wrote: »

and most people in ireland and even europe agree with most parts of that narrative hence most of europe having a centre or near the centre government.

as i said, there is a reason why only a couple of countries have fallen for the snake oil being sold by the hard right, because they generally show their true colors.

The far left and right are both equally full of lies and danger, ireland only has centre/ centre left leaning governments for decades now, the 2004 referendum was the last right of centre thing our nation did.

Ireland needs a moderate right party

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The far left and right are both equally full of lies and danger, ireland only has centre/ centre left leaning governments for decades now, the 2004 referendum was the last right of centre thing our nation did.

Ireland needs a moderate right party

clearly it doesn't as otherwise one would have been set up and voted in.
it hasn't, so obviously not enough demand for one.

Rjd2

end of the road wrote: »

clearly it doesn't as otherwise one would have been set up and voted in.
it hasn't, so obviously not enough demand for one.

Yeah whether that it is a good or bad thing is a debate for another day, but we are very much a centre left type nation.

Their is not enough demand for a PD type party at the moment with the general public.

Smee_Again

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ireland needs a moderate right party

Would you ever go and create this much needed party already.

If it if in any way needed or as potentially popular as you believe then you’ll have no problem attracting candidates and voters.

biko

Can we get Corbyn and Stramer up in the ring?
I bet Corbyn would win, Starmer doesn't have a clue about boxing.


https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1388521276256497674?s=20

Danzy

biko wrote: »

Can we get Corbyn and Stramer up in the ring?
I bet Corbyn would win, Starmer doesn't have a clue about boxing.


https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1388521276256497674?s=20

That's rough.

The Tories will deduct the cost of that from their own party budget.

Dyr

biko wrote: »

Can we get Corbyn and Stramer up in the ring?
I bet Corbyn would win, Starmer doesn't have a clue about boxing.


https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1388521276256497674?s=20

He's stepping on 60 but still, thats like watching someone whos had a stroke going through physical therapy to regain coordination.

Dyr

A fella who catalogued Jezzas antiseimitic links, havent fact checked it


I thought a lot of the antisemitism accusations were just opportunistic attacks but jesus this makes grim reading


https://areomagazine.com/2018/08/16/anti-semitism-the-case-against-corbyn-and-the-labour-party/

Danzy

Bambi wrote: »

A fella who catalogued Jezzas antiseimitic links, havent fact checked it


I thought a lot of the antisemitism accusations were just opportunistic attacks but jesus this makes grim reading


https://areomagazine.com/2018/08/16/anti-semitism-the-case-against-corbyn-and-the-labour-party/

His enemies often ran with things, and there was some ludicrous accusations but there was no shortage of raw Jew baiting and hate as well.

end of the road

Bambi wrote: »

A fella who catalogued Jezzas antiseimitic links, havent fact checked it


I thought a lot of the antisemitism accusations were just opportunistic attacks but jesus this makes grim reading


https://areomagazine.com/2018/08/16/anti-semitism-the-case-against-corbyn-and-the-labour-party/

that would be similar to borris johnson's links to islamaphobia because of him being leader of the tory party which has islamaphobes.
granted in the case of borris there is demonstrable evidence that he is himself islamaphobic or at least was, given he has made islamaphobic comments.
corbyn on the other hand, there is not a single solitary piece of evidence to show he himself is anti-semetic, and realistically all that is contained in the article you posted is that a few individuals engaged in anti-semitism.
they shouldn't have and were rightly suspended but it is absolutely the case that the alt right and others with certain incidious agendas jumped on this and pretended to care about anti-cemitism to push their own agenda.
mainly to insure that there would be no labour government so as to insure brexit absolutely happened at any cost.
even some of the stuff in the article that is claimed as anti-semitism isn't so in reality, but is more of the usual whinging because israel gets called out for it's actions.

Dyr

end of the road wrote: »

that would be similar to borris johnson's links to islamaphobia because of him being leader of the tory party which has islamaphobes.
granted in the case of borris there is demonstrable evidence that he is himself islamaphobic or at least was, given he has made islamaphobic comments.
corbyn on the other hand, there is not a single solitary piece of evidence to show he himself is anti-semetic, and realistically all that is contained in the article you posted is that a few individuals engaged in anti-semitism.
they shouldn't have and were rightly suspended but it is absolutely the case that the alt right and others with certain incidious agendas jumped on this and pretended to care about anti-cemitism to push their own agenda.
mainly to insure that there would be no labour government so as to insure brexit absolutely happened at any cost.
even some of the stuff in the article that is claimed as anti-semitism isn't so in reality, but is more of the usual whinging because israel gets called out for it's actions.

Rather than wade in to go "but...boris...but" have a read of the article, it's fairly comprehensive about Corbyns links to holocaust deniers. Most people can spot the difference between having a pop at Israel and antisemitism but apparently Corbyn never could.

Then maybe start a thread about Boris and Islamaphobia.

ILoveYourVibes

biko wrote: »

Throughout the Corbyn period, Jews were often asked why they were making such a fuss about all this: after all, Labour was hardly about to whip up pogroms.

wow high standards

ILoveYourVibes

Bambi wrote: »

Rather than wade in to go "but...boris...but" have a read of the article, it's fairly comprehensive about Corbyns links to holocaust deniers. Most people can spot the difference between having a pop at Israel and antisemitism but apparently Corbyn never could.

Then maybe start a thread about Boris and Islamaphobia.

I have no issue with raising the problem the Tory party has with Islam and partic Boris. He has dehumanized muslims multiple times.

And the tory party were noticeably cold for grenfell tower which had a number of muslim residents.

That is a totally separate issue though from Corbyn and his inability to recognize anti semitism.

The failure of the tories to recognize islamaphobia imo is why most of their voters vote for them.

The tories themselves mix with some very anti semitic types.

Its a problem for all in politics.

Both sides need to recognize it.

end of the road

Bambi wrote: »

Rather than wade in to go "but...boris...but" have a read of the article, it's fairly comprehensive about Corbyns links to holocaust deniers. Most people can spot the difference between having a pop at Israel and antisemitism but apparently Corbyn never could.

Then maybe start a thread about Boris and Islamaphobia.

i have read it hence my point.
it's not really comprehensive at all, the links really amount to liking pages and sharing platforms with people, which if we were to take it to it's conclusion, we all have a link to the odd unsavery person because we have shared some sort of platform with them or agreed with the odd point they make.
boards being the platform for example.
corbyn very much knew the difference between anti-semitism and criticising israel, that was the problem, and you are right that most of us are the same.

blackwhite

end of the road wrote: »

i have read it hence my point.
it's not really comprehensive at all, the links really amount to liking pages and sharing platforms with people, which if we were to take it to it's conclusion, we all have a link to the odd unsavery person because we have shared some sort of platform with them or agreed with the odd point we make.
boards being the platform for example.

corbyn very much knew the difference between anti-semitism and criticising israel, that was the problem, and you are right that most of us are the same.

Get up the yard with BS like that



https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/977183210051338241/photo/1

About as blatantly anti-semitic as you can get, but Jezza was still happy to defend it.


Corbyn's problem was exactly the same as his cult-like followers - he was happy to turn a blind eye to anti-semitism once the perpetrators were from his own side of the party.

end of the road

blackwhite wrote: »

Get up the yard with BS like that



https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/977183210051338241/photo/1

About as blatantly anti-semitic as you can get, but Jezza was still happy to defend it.


Corbyn's problem was exactly the same as his cult-like followers - he was happy to turn a blind eye to anti-semitism once the perpetrators were from his own side of the party.

corbyn's problem was that he was going to put an end to a lot of taxpayer funded gravy trains and that could not have been allowed to happen.
he didn't turn a blind eye to anti-semitism, he implemented the most comprehensive anti-semitism procedures ever implemented by a party to deal with the issue.
it was those from the opposite side of the party who did all they could to try and stifle attempts to deal with the problem, yet corbyn managed to mostly deal with it.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Rather than wade in to go "but...boris...but" have a read of the article, it's fairly comprehensive about Corbyns links to holocaust deniers. Most people can spot the difference between having a pop at Israel and antisemitism but apparently Corbyn never could.

Then maybe start a thread about Boris and Islamaphobia.

I read as far as Jackie Walker the “Holocaust denier” and then did some research on what she actually said. It’s in her wiki page.

Wasn’t convinced.

Silentcorner

Looks like the Labour Party has more problems then just rampant anti semitism....

I love watching a political party that should never have succumb to radical politics or gender quotas (whichever came first)get what it deserves....

This won't be the only political party that is in for a rough couple of years!!!

Danzy

Silentcorner wrote: »

Looks like the Labour Party has more problems then just rampant anti semitism....

I love watching a political party that should never have succumb to radical politics or gender quotas (whichever came first)get what it deserves....

This won't be the only political party that is in for a rough couple of years!!!

Not liking your voter base is quite a problem.

Khalid Mahmood resigned from the shadow Cabinet in protest of the woke snobs taking over the party.