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Why no town square in Dublin?

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  • 16-11-2020 2:06pm
    #1
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭


    All the European cities I've been in have beautiful open squares, these are ample locations for markets, gatherings and other events.

    Our pathetic street Christmas market is squeezed on a footpath in Stephen's Green.

    London has Trafalgar Square, there's a beautiful square in Kraków, and most other European cities. Kiev has beautiful open plan squares.

    O'Connell Street, Dame Street and College Green, if pedestrianised would make for a beautiful market square.

    They look awful festooned with car parking and vehicles belching out smoke.


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    #2
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    Dublin wasn't flattened in the war for it all to be replanned and rebuilt.


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    #3
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    afatbollix wrote: »
    Dublin wasn't flattened in the war for it all to be replanned and rebuilt.

    :rolleyes: this again.

    Neither was London.


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    #4
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    :rolleyes: this again.

    Neither was London.

    Or Kiev.


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    #5
    Kaybaykwah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Isn't Smithfield a public square?

    They used to have a horse mule and pony market on every First Sunday of themmonth in the old days. When I deove past it last year, it had all been revamped, though. That was a fair sized place for public events.


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    #6
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Or Kiev.

    Kiev was pretty brutally flattened in WW2.


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    #7
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Allinall


    There’s a big one in Tallaght.


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    #8
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    All the European cities I've been in have beautiful open squares, these are ample locations for markets, gatherings and other events.

    Our pathetic street Christmas market is squeezed on a footpath in Stephen's Green.

    London has Trafalgar Square, there's a beautiful square in Kraków, and most other European cities. Kiev has beautiful open plan squares.

    O'Connell Street, Dame Street and College Green, if pedestrianised would make for a beautiful market square.

    They look awful festooned with car parking and vehicles belching out smoke.


    They would just become congregation spaces for aggressive beggars harassing members of the public, as well as hard left types shouting into megaphones.

    Those other European cities you mention don't have welfare class Dubliners in them. It's the people that are the problem. Nothing good would come from it. The less public spaces the better.


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    #9
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    afatbollix wrote: »
    Dublin wasn't flattened in the war for it all to be replanned and rebuilt.

    Or Seville, Barcelona, Montpellier, I can think of loads...

    We kind of do have squares in many towns and cities in Ireland but they're usually 100% dedicated to buses and private cars. College Green, Eyre Square spring to mind.


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    #10
    Hodors Appletart
    Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭Hodors Appletart


    MHS in Temple Bar

    and they are trying to turn College Green into a Plaza style thing


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    #11
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    They would just become congregation spaces for aggressive beggars harassing members of the public, as well as hard left types shouting into megaphones.

    Those other European cities you mention don't have welfare class Dubliners in them. It's the people that are the problem. Nothing good would come from it. The less public spaces the better.

    You really push this agenda on every thread.
    So we shouldn't have car free zones because there are people on welfare. F*cking hell.


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    #12
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    Kiev was pretty brutally flattened in WW2.

    Ok you're right there.

    My point still stands.

    The "flattened during the war" argument is bollocks.


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    #13
    Das Reich
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭Das Reich


    Out of curiosity what was the population of Dublin during the last centuries? To me it seems that counties like Leitrim or Clare had much more population before and Dublin was very small and the city developed recently for cars not for pedestrians.


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    #14
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Das Reich wrote: »
    Out of curiosity what was the population of Dublin during the last centuries? To me it seems that counties like Leitrim or Clare had much more population before and Dublin was very small and the city developed recently for cars not for pedestrians.

    Dublins % share of population was tiny until the late 19th century and it only really grew due to the rest of the country emptying out due to and after the famine.

    A lot of the core centre of Dublin was rebuilt in the Wide Streets Commission era which is why we have very little pre mid 1750s (that isn't religious or administrative) and what we do have is mostly on Aungier and Thomas Streets and not the city centre.

    The building of that era - both rebuilds and new development - preferred squares with parks in them not the more European style squares.


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    #15
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,895 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I'd rather have Stephens Green, Merrion Square as green areas ... much appreciated at lunchtime when still working in town as a respite from the concrete.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #16
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    You really push this agenda on every thread.
    So we shouldn't have car free zones because there are people on welfare. F*cking hell.


    If it's true , then it's true. On every thread.


    If you want a car free zone then pedestrianize a street. South William street would be top of my list. But a square or open space would just be a congregation zone for the types i mentioned.


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    #17
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,200 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    O'connell st was originally planned as a grand city square, they then decided to punch through the Liffey end, build the bridge and make it a grand avenue.


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    #18
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    L1011 wrote: »
    Dublins % share of population was tiny until the late 19th century and it only really grew due to the rest of the country emptying out due to and after the famine.

    A lot of the core centre of Dublin was rebuilt in the Wide Streets Commission era which is why we have very little pre mid 1750s (that isn't religious or administrative) and what we do have is mostly on Aungier and Thomas Streets and not the city centre.

    The building of that era - both rebuilds and new development - preferred squares with parks in them not the more European style squares.

    That's what I was thinking too; we've plenty of squares, they just have parks in the middle.


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    #19
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    If it's true , then it's true. On every thread.


    If you want a car free zone then pedestrianize a street. South William street would be top of my list. But a square or open space would just be a congregation zone for the types i mentioned.

    But these types are all over town anyway, and mostly harmless.
    We can't pedestrianise South William St and Drury St entirely because of private car parks unfortunately.


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    #20
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    That's what I was thinking too; we've plenty of squares, they just have parks in the middle.

    It doesn't help that they're surrounded by pointy railings. In European cities they have squares with trees and green areas but they aren't fenced in and locked at night. They have the weather for it though so you'd still have families with kids running around there well into the night.


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    #21
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Or Kiev.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1941)

    London was fairly whacked in WW2 as well.
    Buildings were demolished but the squares were there before and after.
    I don't find Trafalgar Square much to write home about, not more a roundabout really.

    Different cities have different history.
    That's just the way it is.

    Dublin has its own look, the Georgian Squares, the work done by the Wide Streets Commrs, which gave us Dame Street, D'Olier Street, Parliament Street etc etc.

    It is the use that these streets are put to is maybe something that could be looked at.

    As another poster has mentioned there is Smithfield Square.


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    #22
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    They could demolish some of the multi-storey car parks, turn the space into a nice square.


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    #23
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    College Green will be a big plaza if plans go ahead. O'Connell St could be similar if it wasn't essentially a giant bus lane (having previously been a car park),


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    #24
    bocaman
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭bocaman


    As a previous poster said one of the main reasons we don't have big open square is the weather. It's something thats often commented on by tourists who come to Dublin.


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    #25
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    They could demolish some of the multi-storey car parks, turn the space into a nice square.

    DCC Drury Street is about the only one that's a standalone building (albeit with restaurants/cafes on the ground floor) and on a street where it could be any use.

    Most of the rest are either on top of large retail structures, on side streets/between streets (Schoolhouse Lane, Brown Thomas), or are actually underground (Setanta, the other Drury Street)


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    #26
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    loyatemu wrote: »
    College Green will be a big plaza if plans go ahead. O'Connell St could be similar if it wasn't essentially a giant bus lane (having previously been a car park),

    Unless the big plane trees are chopped down eek! and the Thomas Davis statue and fountain (should be moved either way terrible eyesore) the scale of the new plaza won't be realised.


    The Luas will still be trundling along at the edge of the plaza.

    It will all be something half baked.


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    #27
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    imme wrote: »
    The Luas will still be trundling along at the edge of the plaza.

    Trams along the edge of a square is pretty normal in Europe. Three sides of the Dam Square in Amsterdam - the fourth is the palace!


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    #28
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    bocaman wrote: »
    As a previous poster said one of the main reasons we don't have big open square is the weather. It's something thats often commented on by tourists who come to Dublin.

    What would be done in a big square.

    A market was suggested by the OP.
    Is there a call for a market outdoors.

    Moore Street is effectively gone.

    A revitalised market in North inner city in the old Corporation Fruit market is in the plans as it is.


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    #29
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    L1011 wrote: »
    Trams along the edge of a square is pretty normal in Europe. Three sides of the Dam Square in Amsterdam - the fourth is the palace!

    Maybe so.

    There are many that don't have trams, Grand Place in Brussels, Plaza Mayor in Madrid.
    College Green Plaza or whatever they call it will be half baked.

    The moaning and court cases will carry on for years.

    It will be a redesignation of space rather than a designing of what the place could be.


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    #30
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    bocaman wrote: »
    As a previous poster said one of the main reasons we don't have big open square is the weather. It's something thats often commented on by tourists who come to Dublin.

    Amsterdam and Copenhagen both have nasty weather apart from in high summer, not to mention freezing winters, and yet plenty of busy squares.
    Cafes and restaurants provide quality heated seating.


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    #31
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    Hodors Appletart wrote: »
    MHS in Temple Bar

    and they are trying to turn College Green into a Plaza style thing

    They are planning to pedestrianise the college green/ part of Dame Street also.

    They had some trials this year each Sunday where no cars were allowed access the area.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/college-green-plaza-to-double-in-size-under-new-plans-1.4400337

    I think this project looks good, not exactly a square but close enough.


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