Why no town square in Dublin?

Thelonious Monk

imme wrote: »

These idiots are everywhere.

It amazes me that the Gardai at pop up checkpoints don't take them off the road.

They do stop people with no lights, I saw it last week on Amiens st

imme

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They do stop people with no lights, I saw it last week on Amiens st

That's good news.
I think these are a danger to themselves and others.


I hadn't experienced this up to now.

loyatemu

seriously, does every thread have to end up with people whinging about cyclists?

no town square in Dublin? f*!#ing cyclists!

imme

loyatemu wrote: »

seriously, does every thread have to end up with people whinging about cyclists?

no town square in Dublin? f*!#ing cyclists!

I think with most threads on here the original topic gets exhausted pretty quickly.

Dyr

loyatemu wrote: »

seriously, does every thread have to end up with people whinging about cyclists?

no town square in Dublin? f*!#ing cyclists!

Now you know how junkies feel

GT89

Is this not the idea of the College Green Plaza

crazy 88

It would be a magnet for junkies and the council and planners know that. The few small squares that are in the city centre like smithfield and wolftone square are full of them, including the boardwalks. I know most are harmless but they are loud and the public drinking and shooting up would scare off most normal people.

That's what college green would turn into if it's pedestrianised. There'd also be a spillover of temple bar drunkenness.

Thelonious Monk

crazy 88 wrote: »

It would be a magnet for junkies and the council and planners know that. The few small squares that are in the city centre like smithfield and wolftone square are full of them, including the boardwalks. I know most are harmless but they are loud and the public drinking and shooting up would scare off most normal people.

That's what college green would turn into if it's pedestrianised. There'd also be a spillover of temple bar drunkenness.

Ridiculous. So we should have traffic running through everywhere because junkies. I despair.

GT89

crazy 88 wrote: »

It would be a magnet for junkies and the council and planners know that. The few small squares that are in the city centre like smithfield and wolftone square are full of them, including the boardwalks. I know most are harmless but they are loud and the public drinking and shooting up would scare off most normal people.

That's what college green would turn into if it's pedestrianised. There'd also be a spillover of temple bar drunkenness.

Nearly all cities in Europe have drug addicts and undesirables in the city it's very common especially in areas surrounding large transport hubs.

Biker79

GT89 wrote: »

Nearly all cities in Europe have drug addicts and undesirables in the city it's very common especially in areas surrounding large transport hubs.

Takes a pandemic to see the scale of the problem.

crazy 88

GT89 wrote: »

Nearly all cities in Europe have drug addicts and undesirables in the city it's very common especially in areas surrounding large transport hubs.

They do not. Any of the large city squares I have been to in European cities have very few or none of them. Even Times Square was OK. I don't know why this is. I'm guessing it might be because homeless accommodation and treatment centres are not in the city centres.

crazy 88

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ridiculous. So we should have traffic running through everywhere because junkies. I despair.

And your solution for having town squares with a safe atmosphere is?

Thelonious Monk

crazy 88 wrote: »

And your solution for having town squares with a safe atmosphere is?

Dublin city centre is safe everywhere. Addicts and homeless people don't really bother anyone. Junkie isn't a nice word either.

crazy 88

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Dublin city centre is safe everywhere. Addicts and homeless people don't really bother anyone. Junkie isn't a nice word either.

I already said most don't harm or physically bother anyone. Do I want to see them shooting up and drinking cans in public? No. And neither would anyone else walking around a square or sitting in a café.

Thelonious Monk

crazy 88 wrote: »

I already said most don't harm or physically bother anyone. Do I want to see them shooting up and drinking cans in public? No. And neither would anyone else walking around a square or sitting in a café.

But are you not seeing this anyway? We can't not develop the city because of some people you may find undesirable.

strandroad

crazy 88 wrote: »

They do not. Any of the large city squares I have been to in European cities have very few or none of them. Even Times Square was OK. I don't know why this is. I'm guessing it might be because homeless accommodation and treatment centres are not in the city centres.

Continental cities tend to have some form of public city guard: non-police public order force to react to antisocial behaviour or littering, enforce parking laws etc.
We only have the gardai who don't bother and TBH it would make perfect sense to only involve them in potential crimes not public order offences. A city guard only needs a leaving cert.
If you deployed 20 city guards between the canals it would clean the city up in no time. Other cities have their share of addicts but they learned to be civil enough and that a roaring fight or taking a dump in public would cost them.

crazy 88

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But are you not seeing this anyway? We can't not develop the city because of some people you may find undesirable.

Yes I am seeing it. And that's why I and most other people don't go near the boardwalks because of some of the things that go on there. Which is a shame as they look lovely.
I would love to see further developments but what's the point of another boardwalk on a bigger scale?

strandroad

crazy 88 wrote: »

Yes I am seeing it. And that's why I and most other people don't go near the boardwalks because of some of the things that go on there. Which is a shame as they look lovely.
I would love to see further developments but what's the point of another boardwalk on a bigger scale?

Having more public spaces would decompress them though. They wouldn't congregate as much if there were dozens of options instead of the two or three they flock to instead.

crazy 88

strandroad wrote: »

Continental cities tend to have some form of public city guard: non-police public order force to react to antisocial behaviour or littering, enforce parking laws etc.
We only have the gardai who don't bother and TBH it would make perfect sense to only involve them in potential crimes not public order offences. A city guard only needs a leaving cert.
If you deployed 20 city guards between the canals it would clean the city up in no time. Other cities have their share of addicts but they learned to be civil enough and that a roaring fight or taking a dump in public would cost them.

That's true, they are well policed. Although one thing that seems to be common in some of these cities is pick pocketing. Strange that it's not a huge issue in Dublin

GarIT

I've been on squares, plazas or whatever you want to call them all around Europe, and all of them have had permanent police with guns standing in place watching the square.

GT89

GarIT wrote: »

I've been on squares, plazas or whatever you want to call them all around Europe, and all of them have had permanent police with guns standing in place watching the square.

More to do with a certain religion of peace than drug addicts

Thelonious Monk

GT89 wrote: »

More to do with a certain religion of peace than drug addicts

No, i remember being in squares in madrid and Barcelona in 2002 and they had cops standing around while people just sat on the ground drinking cans of beer as they do in Spain

GarIT

GT89 wrote: »

More to do with a certain religion of peace than drug addicts

In my case potentially. I believe there was a terrorist attack somewhere else on my first or second day of a few days in Klön and that was mad, I think that might have been the only time I've had a gun pointed at me. The soilders were just pointing guns in the faces of people entering the train station.


Separate to that my point was I think if we had permanent police in key locations and a functional prison system maybe a plaza could work and would be safer.

Spanish Eyes

Will be difficult to get the G Siochana out of their warm barracks and leave their doughnuts on the table to keep us safe. Think about that.

I really thought that the Nordie Boss would shake things up, but the Superintendents have the power and always did. They are the managers of their Districts after all.

Strumms

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Have a look at the below, in the North Strand. I wouldn't worry about cyclists if I were you, focus on idiots like the motorists in the video.

It’s pretty horrific, mad driving, but i think we need to focus equally on shîtty dangerous driving as much as we do cycling.. both need to be called out.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

tdf7187 wrote: »

So what are you actually advocating? Flatten Dublin city centre and make a Trafalgar Square on the ruins? FFS man be realistic.

I suggested nothing of the kind.
What kind of mental gymnastics did you perform to arrive at that conclusion?

Pedestrianise O'Connell Street, Dame Street, College Green, Stephen's Green

Strumms

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

I suggested nothing of the kind.
What kind of mental gymnastics did you perform to arrive at that conclusion?

Pedestrianise O'Connell Street, Dame Street, College Green, Stephen's Green

Never going to be possible.

So many businesses around there that rely on deliveries from couriers, stock vans / trucks etc, literally tonnes of things delivered daily ... where do all the buses, taxis etc go ? That will just cause absolute chaos and major congestion in other areas of the city... How do people with disabilities say get from o Connell st upper to st Stephens green ? Practically every courier as it is, needs to park illegally just to make deliveries to o Connell st. and neighboring streets and lanes.

With the metro ok, great, that will help. But clogging up the quays which are already at a standstill much of the day with even more traffic, not good... o ‘Connell st would be great pedestrianized but the lack of alternatives for traffic, especially public transport would not work. You need alternatives... pedestrianizing the streets you mentioned would be good FOR those streets but move the problems, bigger ones elsewhere.

The Champs Elysses isn’t pedestrianized, also Gran Via - Madrid, Las Ramblas - Barcelona, Oxford St - London.... none are either

Pedestrianizing roughly 2.5kms squared of the city, the busiest most centralized part won’t work, you’ll create worse problems elsewhere.

sheesh

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

All the European cities I've been in have beautiful open squares, these are ample locations for markets, gatherings and other events.

St stephens green was a square at one stage but there were people formenting revolution so they had to change it a park.

So I have heard somewhere

JustAThought

sheesh wrote: »

St stephens green was a square at one stage but there were people formenting revolution so they had to change it a park.

So I have heard somewhere

No. St Stephens Green was land privately owned by the Guinness family which was designed, created and given to the city as an open space to be enjoyed in the city centre. They also built a house for 24/7 on site park wardens in it for it to be policed for antsicial behaviour and public conveniences at a penny a pee.

They showed far more consideration and cop on than most of the lazy bureucrats sitting drawing salaries in their bunker of an office hammered on top of and destroying our city roots and our unique viking artifacts.

As for the junkies, drug dealers, heroin users, thieves and general knackers who have taken over our city this wouod bot be allowed in any other european city. They would be rounded up at gunpoint by gaurds who are actually visible l, proactive, on duty in public spaces and working and they would be prosecuted.

Our city has become a slum for dysfunctional junkies, drunks and knackers and it is only getting worse. People shooting up, pissing and vomiting where they stand, dossing about drunk on streets or settled in drinking dutch gold or aldi finest, stumbling around half drunk with their trousers half on half off, having sex on the streets, fighting, dealing drugs and stealing for them and endlessly endlessly begging, shoplifting and intimidating and harassing people for money.

As for the ‘markets’ that pop up at e700 a pitch for the councils - how about we take a stance and stop the endless commercialisation of public gardens and green spaces and allow families to relax without having to run the gauntlet of endless fried food, burger and coffee booths and endless illicit cash in hand ‘businesses’ with god knows what hygine and standards while local businesses who are inspected by HSE and pay rates and taxes all year round have to watch them blow in at weekends or peak times and suck up their passing trade or any bonus busy period business.

The whole thing has just become dysfunctional.

Kaybaykwah

Strumms wrote: »

Never going to be possible.

So many businesses around there that rely on deliveries from couriers, stock vans / trucks etc, literally tonnes of things delivered daily ... where do all the buses, taxis etc go ? That will just cause absolute chaos and major congestion in other areas of the city... How do people with disabilities say get from o Connell st upper to st Stephens green ? Practically every courier as it is, needs to park illegally just to make deliveries to o Connell st. and neighboring streets and lanes.

With the metro ok, great, that will help. But clogging up the quays which are already at a standstill much of the day with even more traffic, not good... o ‘Connell st would be great pedestrianized but the lack of alternatives for traffic, especially public transport would not work. You need alternatives... pedestrianizing the streets you mentioned would be good FOR those streets but move the problems, bigger ones elsewhere.

The Champs Elysses isn’t pedestrianized, also Gran Via - Madrid, Las Ramblas - Barcelona, Oxford St - London.... none are either

Pedestrianizing roughly 2.5kms squared of the city, the busiest most centralized part won’t work, you’ll create worse problems elsewhere.

There is no need to pedestrianize the Champs Élysées. The sidewalks on either side of the boulevard are the width of a wide city street.