Changes in the GAA - super thread

Rockfish · 23-11-2020 5:18pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Even I connaught no team has defended it in 5 years. You had mayo dominance for about 5 years before but mayo are not a county as big as Dublin with the resources to cause a snowball effect and keep winning it forever. Even the mighty kerry can't. Same with Donegal who were going for 3 in a row.

Won 5 in a row but we werent steamrolling everyone each year, still had some tight games

risteard7 · 23-11-2020 7:18pm

dobman88 wrote: »

Of course it is. What makes Tipp winning Liam worthwhile but Kerry winning a Joe McDongah cup not worthwhile? Kerry will play in the Joe McDonagh final before the Senior hurling final, I'll be watching and hope they win and I know those lads will be absolutely delighted if they win.

So a Donegal player can say today I have an All Ireland Hurling Medal and it should be treated the same as Let's say Limerick win it this year??

The Lost Sheep · 23-11-2020 7:38pm

risteard7 wrote: »

So a Donegal player can say today I have an All Ireland Hurling Medal and it should be treated the same as Let's say Limerick win it this year??

They won their division and were the best of all the teams within their tier. Not everyone needs to be playing in the top tier.

dobman88 · 23-11-2020 10:45pm

risteard7 wrote: »

So a Donegal player can say today I have an All Ireland Hurling Medal and it should be treated the same as Let's say Limerick win it this year??

Yes, absolutely.

Why wouldnt it be? To say otherwise is very odd

dobman88 · 23-11-2020 10:47pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They won their division and were the best of all the teams within their tier. Not everyone needs to be playing in the top tier.

Yep. Same as county championships around the country. A team winning a junior championship is just as valuable as a team winning the senior. That's the grade you play at.

Fann Linn · 24-11-2020 12:09am

crossman47 wrote: »

I think Cavan and Tipp proved that a two tier championship is nonsense. The reason football is less attractive is Dublin dominance and possession type football (not just Dublin).

No disrespect to either team but Cavan's first win in 23 years and Tipps in 85 years just proves that there are times when even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

RoyalCelt · 24-11-2020 5:59am

Fann Linn wrote: »

No disrespect to either team but Cavan's first win in 23 years and Tipps in 85 years just proves that there are times when even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

And it also makes you wonder what would have if the GAA focused their funding on weaker counties and not the likes of Dublin and kerry. I'd love a system where teams who've won the all Ireland in the last 5 years or are division 1 in the league get very little funding and everyone else gets the lionshare.

It would prob have been enough to push limerick footballers over the line during the 00's and wexford in Leinster.

Coillte_Bhoy · 24-11-2020 7:18am

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And it also makes you wonder what would have if the GAA focused their funding on weaker counties and not the likes of Dublin and kerry. I'd love a system where teams who've won the all Ireland in the last 5 years or are division 1 in the league get very little funding and everyone else gets the lionshare.

It would prob have been enough to push limerick footballers over the line during the 00's and wexford in Leinster.

So the young players in a successful county must lose out in development funding? Insane

dobman88 · 24-11-2020 10:09am

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And it also makes you wonder what would have if the GAA focused their funding on weaker counties and not the likes of Dublin and kerry. I'd love a system where teams who've won the all Ireland in the last 5 years or are division 1 in the league get very little funding and everyone else gets the lionshare.

It would prob have been enough to push limerick footballers over the line during the 00's and wexford in Leinster.

Kerry actually rank around 10th when it comes to funding so they've hardly had it focused on them.

Edit, make that 16th. It was posted in the leinster thread what each county has received over 10 years so weakens your argument further.

Fann Linn · 24-11-2020 12:51pm

Being discussed now on rte 1

dobman88 · 24-11-2020 1:05pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Being discussed now on rte 1

Nothing new there that hasnt been said here multiple times. Lad on with the figures of funding received. Dub on to defend his county getting the funding. People txting in saying but but but. Kilkenny won and nobody complained etc. It was like listening to boards posters :pac:

breezy1985 · 24-11-2020 1:05pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And it also makes you wonder what would have if the GAA focused their funding on weaker counties and not the likes of Dublin and kerry. I'd love a system where teams who've won the all Ireland in the last 5 years or are division 1 in the league get very little funding and everyone else gets the lionshare.

It would prob have been enough to push limerick footballers over the line during the 00's and wexford in Leinster.

Limerick could easily fund our footballers if the will was there but if you give Limerick GAA any extra money it will end up with the hurlers anyway

Rolo2010 · 25-11-2020 1:26am

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So the young players in a successful county must lose out in development funding? Insane

I think funding needs to be looked at but that would be bad system.

RoyalCelt · 25-11-2020 1:42pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So the young players in a successful county must lose out in development funding? Insane

Meath didn't get money focused on them when they were more successful then dublin in Leinster. Neither did kildare, Laois, Offally or Westmeath. As you say insane.

Crazy isn't it how we all didn't get the millions pumped in for being very successful.

RoyalCelt · 25-11-2020 1:44pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Limerick could easily fund our footballers if the will was there but if you give Limerick GAA any extra money it will end up with the hurlers anyway

Dublin could easily fund their operations too. They've something like 10M in profits sitting in the bank. Yet dublin still got the funding so why not limerick footballers who actually have potential to be competitive in munster.

And if it's specifically designated to the footballers tough luck for the hurlers who are well looked after anyway.

breezy1985 · 25-11-2020 2:50pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Dublin could easily fund their operations too. They've something like 10M in profits sitting in the bank. Yet dublin still got the funding so why not limerick footballers who actually have potential to be competitive in munster.

And if it's specifically designated to the footballers tough luck for the hurlers who are well looked after anyway.

I don't know much about Dublin but trust me if you sent Limerick county board a pack of money ring fenced for football they would probably just their own funding and send it to the hurlers and the footballers would be no better off.

One thing I would do if I was HQ would be to sell the jersey contract in one 32 county deal like MLS soccer do and spit the money evenly between the teams. Also have an official match ball supplier

seligehgit · 05-12-2020 12:43pm

Listened back to Jim Mc Guinness on OTB GAA.

Revisited his 2015 proposed revamp of the championship on a 2 tier basis.

TBH I think it's an excellent proposal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993?mode=amp

gormdubhgorm · 05-12-2020 8:12pm

seligehgit wrote: »

Listened back to Jim Mc Guinness on OTB GAA.

Revisited his 2015 proposed revamp of the championship on a 2 tier basis.

TBH I think it's an excellent proposal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993?mode=amp

Looks good in fairness, has a bit for everyone nearly he obviously put thought into it.

Only thing is, by the time real change like that is implemented in the GAA - Donegal will be unveiling the new "Pairc Mag Aonghusa" on the 50th anniversary of his death. Has to pass at congress etc.

generalgerry · 05-12-2020 8:23pm

It's a professional team with professional funding against amateur teams. It is not just a "golden generation", it will keep going until the GAA make a concerted effort to balance things up for the other counties.

tanko · 05-12-2020 8:24pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Well, she literally just brought it up.

No. She wants to talk about the "other counties" not the financial advantage Dublin have.

FintanMcluskey · 05-12-2020 8:24pm

Take Dublin out of Croke park for neutral games.

gormdubhgorm · 05-12-2020 8:24pm

McDaid was blooded in Omagh v Tyrone on a lovely day in August 2019

On a day Breheny called farcial and called the Super 8's a flop.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-farcical-finale-sums-up-why-unfair-super-8s-format-is-a-total-flop-38374271.html

Lovely day great day out. And I was there!

https://www.the42.ie/dublin-tyrone-all-ireland-football-4752645-Aug2019/

Fair play McDaid!

Lundstram · 05-12-2020 8:24pm

generalgerry wrote: »

It's a professional team with professional funding against amateur teams. It is not just a "golden generation", it will keep going until the GAA make a concerted effort to balance things up for the other counties.

Don't be silly, they just volunteer harder. Bless them.

05-12-2020 8:25pm

Cavanagh was quickly shut down for not playing the Dublin money bad line.

generalgerry · 05-12-2020 8:26pm

Lundstram wrote: »

Don't be silly, they just volunteer harder. Bless them.

How can you be posting here and be on the TV at the same time, Sean!

Seriously though, Sean Kavanagh seems to think things are grand, wtf

FintanMcluskey · 05-12-2020 8:26pm

It’s hardly a brilliant rivalry if Mayo never actually beat them Joanne

formerlyET · 05-12-2020 8:27pm

Life ain't always empty.

Nice choice of lyrics to end the show because that **** was empty.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 8:27pm

Lundstram wrote: »

Don't be silly, they just volunteer harder. Bless them.

Oh Dear!!!!

Mantis Toboggan · 05-12-2020 8:29pm

The break up of Dublin grows closer.

Strumms · 05-12-2020 8:29pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Take Dublin out of Croke park for neutral games.

That works if Cork can’t play a Munster final in Parc I Chaoimh...

Otherwise.. no fair..

ShamoBuc · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Take Dublin out of Croke park for neutral games.

That will have little or no effect I think.

They can beat any team in any pitch in Ireland. The 'novelty' of playing away games might actually spur them on, rather than the same routine for every game.

The money and number of coaches needs to be somehow addressed.

tobefrank321 · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If Cavan come within 10 points of Dublin it will be a moral victory. Dublin to win by 15 points.

I should have put money on it!

Stacksofwacks · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

Best course of action is to split Dublin in 2 from next year. If those 2 teams are still too strong for the rest in a couple of years split into 4 until it evens out

tanko · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

She brought up the topic, the lads all contributed, commenting on money, population, coaching, managements etc.

What exactly do you want her to do, given they had less than 5 minutes?
Seriously?

She didn't bring up the financial doping topic, O Rourke did. She tells him to stop talking about it and later starts waffling about what the other counties have to do, so she tried to steer the conversation away from Dublins advantages all the time.

ShamoBuc · 05-12-2020 8:32pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

They didn't like their answers. ��

Apart from Seán but Tomás jumped in quickly and Colm wants them split to the four corners of the county.

Mantis Toboggan · 05-12-2020 8:34pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Best course of action is to split Dublin in 2 from next year. If those 2 teams are still too strong for the rest in a couple of years split into 4 until it evens out

Not sure if splitting into 4 is warranted but I think North and South would be the obvious choice.

05-12-2020 8:35pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The break up of Dublin grows closer.

It can’t happen without joining up other counties. The day that happens the GAA is dead and buried.

Enquiring · 05-12-2020 8:36pm

tanko wrote: »

She didn't bring up the financial doping topic, O Rourke did. She tells him to stop talking about it and later starts waffling about what the other counties have to do, so she tried to steer the conversation away from Dublins advantages all the time.

Yes, it was clear she was taking the angle that something must be done about other counties and not what should be done with the real problem; Dublin.

It was great to hear some discussion on it though. It's usually silenced. This shows that this is really growing momentum now. It's slow progress but discussing the splitting of Dublin will be brought to the table. The closing of ranks will be fierce in the coming days/weeks. The Dubs will be out in force across the media trying to deflect this like Cantwell was, it's not Dublin's fault everyone else can compete will be the line.

We need high profile individuals to stand against this and point out the facts. A professional outfit does not belong in our amateur sport.

Roots 2020 · 05-12-2020 10:27pm

Strumms wrote: »

Nope, an impartial, respected and experienced ex county footballer, who enjoyed success himself, isn’t blinded by bitterness. :)

Not at all. Just won't call it.

Everyone knows the advantages Dublin have.

Big Ears · 05-12-2020 10:28pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’m just pointing out facts. There since 2018. If that’s not long enough maybe VFM is not being met.

Are you suggesting that an S&C coach who can't bring a team in 18-24 months up to the same standard as players who've been doing it 10+ years (starting in underage development set ups) isn't delivering value for money ?

Perhaps if Brian Cody couldn't turn a randomer off the street into Intercounty standard in a couple of years he'd be ****e too ?......

CruelSummer · 05-12-2020 10:28pm

I think all other counties should refuse to play Dublin until either the funding disparity is resolved, or they split Dublin to level the playing field. The GAA have no notion of splitting county Dublin unless they’re forced to. It will destroy Gaelic football in the long term to have Dublin play professionally while all other counties play amateur level. What Dublin gets, all Division 1 teams should get.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 10:32pm

Cavan_King wrote: »

You’re twisting “facts”. He was appointed in November 2018 and had to work out notice with London Irish. He did start work with Cavan by sending on some programmes towards the end of 2018 but he was still based in London and didn’t move back to Ireland until early 19 after his notice was done.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/11/09/news/respected-rugby-coach-andre-quinn-appointed-cavan-s-head-of-athletic-performance-1481018/

Jim McGuinness reckons it takes up to 4 years to get a player up to present intercounty level for S&C by the way. Again, I ask, how long have Dublin had a professional in place?

We were also only I think the third county to a point a professional for this after, surprise, surprise, Dublin, being the first, and Tyrone the second.

By the way, you ignored the entire rest of my post so care to address it? The bit about if only getting a gym, only building training pitches and other counties not having professional CEOs to run their county boards.

But I guess we’ll just label that “begrudgy” and move on. It’s just a huge coincidence that this “golden generation” of players arrived a few years after millions was pumped into Dublin GAA.

I’ve said a solution to the perceived problem is required, please read back on my contribution on other threads. But Dublins success is due to money. I personally find that obnoxious as I’ve volunteered at my club for years, it as we all know Dubs don’t volunteer!!!!

Cavan_King · 05-12-2020 10:38pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’ve said a solution to the perceived problem is required, please read back on my contribution on other threads. But Dublins success is due to money. I personally find that obnoxious as I’ve volunteered at my club for years, it as we all know Dubs don’t volunteer!!!!

Step down off the soapbox please and stop trying to twist the “facts” again,

Nobody said Dubs don’t volunteer but the fact is that Dublin have huge advantages over other counties due to the funding they were given. You’ve just made a point that Cavan S&C should be as good as Dublin because Cavan have had a professional in place for under two years whereas Dublin have had one for ten. It’s a bit of a ridiculous point.

Dublin also have a professional in place to run their county board which other counties just don’t have. This professional can look after advertising, staff etc. on a full time basis whereas the likes of Cavan have a man trying to juggle the county board with a multi million pound business.

To suggest items like this don’t make a difference is ludicrous. Money talks in all sports.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 10:47pm

Big Ears wrote: »

Are you suggesting that an S&C coach who can't bring a team in 18-24 months up to the same standard as players who've been doing it 10+ years (starting in underage development set ups) isn't delivering value for money ?

Perhaps if Brian Cody couldn't turn a randomer off the street into Intercounty standard in a couple of years he'd be ****e too ?......

Your analogy is poor. Yes I’m saying that a S&C coach who has worked at a professional level for 10yrs could not get a group of Athletes who I’m sure have been working on S&C under a different coach up to standard is failing, considering to salary he is on. Don’t mention the 💰

Charles Babbage · 05-12-2020 10:51pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It can’t happen without joining up other counties. The day that happens the GAA is dead and buried.

Other counties being small is mostly a problem for themselves, not for everyone else. Every county has small clubs, and the country can have small counties. But no county can have a single club with one quarter of the population and neither can the county.

Cavan_King · 05-12-2020 10:54pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your analogy is poor. Yes I’m saying that a S&C coach who has worked at a professional level for 10yrs could not get a group of Athletes who I’m sure have been working on S&C under a different coach up to standard is failing, considering to salary he is on. Don’t mention the ðŸ’°

Part of the reason Cavan went and got a full time coach is because they found previous S&C coaches had changed approaches and they wanted to get one consistent approach for all teams.

Just handy for Dublin that they had the funding to organize that consistent approach ten years earlier.

But then Dublin do have a full time CEO to organise staff. Cavan have a man running a full time business trying to find the time to organise the resources for their setup.

CruelSummer · 05-12-2020 11:01pm

Amount given to each county based on number or registered players (2007-2018)
Dublin €270.70 per player
Mayo €22.30
Tyrone €21
Kerry €19

2019 Coaching Grants from Croke Park for this year's All-Ireland semi-finalists
Dublin €1,337,620 = €652.82 each for 2,049 registered youth teams (RYT)
Cavan £183,006 = €646.65 each for 283 RYTs
Mayo €168,219 =£320.41 each for 525 RYTs
Tipperary €226,800 =€214,97 each for 1,005 RYTs

GAA funding between 2007 and 2019. Dublin received over 35% of the €54.6m allocated to counties
1 Dublin €19.2m
2 Cork €2.4m
3 Tyrone €828,716

GAA spending on coaching for the provinces
Leinster €16m
Ulster €12.9m
Munster €11.8m
Connacht €8.3m

selassie · 05-12-2020 11:02pm

Split Dublin into 4 and put one in each provincial championship, how long would it take to win all 4 in one season? 3 years max if we were unlucky I think.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 11:02pm

Cavan_King wrote: »

Part of the reason Cavan went and got a full time coach is because they found previous S&C coaches had changed approaches and they wanted to get one consistent approach for all teams.

Just handy for Dublin that they had the funding to organize that consistent approach ten years earlier.

But then Dublin do have a full time CEO to organise staff. Cavan have a man running a full time business trying to find the time to organise the resources for their setup.

So Cavan are on a level playing field with the financial investment. Thanks.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 11:05pm

generalgerry wrote: »

It's a professional team with professional funding against amateur teams. It is not just a "golden generation", it will keep going until the GAA make a concerted effort to balance things up for the other counties.

The thanks here really shows the total lack of knowledge regarding funding from 2005 to date.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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