Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

opinionated3 · 09-04-2021 11:26am

blue note wrote: »

Have any clubs opened up their timesheets yet? Or given any indication how they plan to operate when they're allowed to open back up on 26th April? I suppose it's slightly over 2 weeks away, but I'd have expected to hear plans by now.

Think a lot of clubs are waiting on whether the nphet crowd will insist on a two households rule. If by some miracle, they didn't insist on it, it would make things a lot easier for the clubs, that's for sure.

A Shaved Duck? · 09-04-2021 11:38am

opinionated3 wrote: »

Think a lot of clubs are waiting on whether the nphet crowd will insist on a two households rule. If by some miracle, they didn't insist on it, it would make things a lot easier for the clubs, that's for sure.

Yeah the 2 household rule is very difficult to understand in terms of golf, its impossible to police and doesn't really make a lot of sense as long as people travel separately.

The courses should be open now lads, the logic is so flawed.

Mantis Toboggan · 09-04-2021 11:39am

Am I right in saying that the Republic is the only country in the world with golf courses closed?

If so shame on all governing parties involved.

opinionated3 · 09-04-2021 11:44am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the Republic is the only country in the world with golf courses closed?

If so shame on all governing parties involved.

That is correct afaik...... And it is shameful and idiotic.

IAmTitleist · 09-04-2021 11:47am

4 balls and competitions from Monday in Northern Ireland.

Sorry guys.

opinionated3 · 09-04-2021 11:47am

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Yeah the 2 household rule is very difficult to understand in terms of golf, its impossible to police and doesn't really make a lot of sense as long as people travel separately.

The courses should be open now lads, the logic is so flawed.

Tbh,I believe most clubs will probably adhere to that particular rule for one, maybe two weeks tops, and then open it back up as normal when the realisation kicks in that it's unworkable and they can't keep their members happy ( who they still expect to pay full subs btw.....).

willabur · 09-04-2021 11:47am

https://twitter.com/Oregonian/status/1380259108134211592?s=20

if this is true can we put to bed the risk of picking up the disease from rakes, flags etc

The risk is superlow so any action in place to mitigate the risk is simply stated an over reaction

blue note · 09-04-2021 11:49am

The two household rule is for meeting up outside full stop isn't it? As in if you want to go for a walk you're allowed to do so with one other household. So the question is whether clubs will make any effort to ensure that their members are not breaking that rule while playing golf or just turn a blind eye.

I think kids can train in groups of up to 15 from 26th April and that applies to golf too.

09-04-2021 11:50am

willabur wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Oregonian/status/1380259108134211592?s=20

if this is true can we put to bed the risk of picking up the disease from rakes, flags etc

The risk is superlow so any action in place to mitigate the risk is simply stated an over reaction

There has never been any sort of significant risk associated with golf, hence why it's not closed anywhere else on the planet.

The absolute morons in charge currently don't use a drop of logic or reason when deciding measures so no amount of evidence supporting the opening of golf will affect their decision unfortunately.

opinionated3 · 09-04-2021 11:50am

willabur wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Oregonian/status/1380259108134211592?s=20

if this is true can we put to bed the risk of picking up the disease from rakes, flags etc

The risk is superlow so any action in place to mitigate the risk is simply stated an over reaction

Incoming from nphet to destroy that theory in 3.2,1......

willabur · 09-04-2021 12:00pm

11521323 wrote: »

There has never been any sort of significant risk associated with golf, hence why it's not closed anywhere else on the planet.

The absolute morons in charge currently don't use a drop of logic or reason when deciding measures so no amount of evidence supporting the opening of golf will affect their decision unfortunately.

At the start of the pandemic when so little was understood about it then restrictions make sense. Once we start to learn, from proper sources, about what is dangerous and what is harmless then not lifting restrictions on the harmless activities is just Dogma

if its not dogma then its a profound mistrust on people to understand the differences between what is dangerous and what is harmless so they go for the blanket ban approach

tayto lover · 09-04-2021 12:06pm

willabur wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Oregonian/status/1380259108134211592?s=20

if this is true can we put to bed the risk of picking up the disease from rakes, flags etc

The risk is superlow so any action in place to mitigate the risk is simply stated an over reaction

There were no rakes to touch, all were removed in my club as well as bins and seats. The flags were to be left in too and ball removed from the hole with gloved hand.
There is absolutely no risk from playing golf if the rules were followed and they were.
The biggest risk to people is coming from power-trippers.

RGS · 09-04-2021 12:47pm

We all saw NPHET poo poo the outdoor study the other day with Dr. Henry claiming there were cases in changing rooms and even dugouts.
They also brought up the usual ancillary activities that may happen as one goes to play sports: the buying of petrol, coffee etc.

Its like that want to micro manage every aspect of any activity and if there is a potential risk dont allow the activity.

The government have to take significant blame for failing to push back on the banning of non contact outdoor activities.

Even the return to play protocol issued recently is a joke. No formal competitions but handicap qualifying golf allowed.
Its clear that Sports Ireland and the expert group on sport don't have a clue about the sports they are overseeing. The alleged quiet diplomacy from golf Ireland hasn't work.

ShivasIrons · 09-04-2021 1:19pm

11521323 wrote: »

There has never been any sort of significant risk associated with golf, hence why it's not closed anywhere else on the planet.

The absolute morons in charge currently don't use a drop of logic or reason when deciding measures so no amount of evidence supporting the opening of golf will affect their decision unfortunately.

It's completely true that there is no risk with one person getting in the car driving from home to golf, stopping nowhere and playing on their own.

However there was a significant amount of virus transmission associated with activities related to golf around Christmas, there were transmissions in clubhouses, shared car journeys and taxi journeys.

So golf is not the problem, it was what golfers were doing before and after golf that caused issues.The solutions are no clubhouses and limit the number of households that can play together. To say that there is no logic or reason behinds the decisions is false and it shows that many are not even willing to look at the decision to figure it out and would rather just shout about how decision makers are clueless.

The other reaction is to say that the 2 household rule is unenforceable but when this is said what is really meant is 'I don't like it, so it shouldn't be enforced'. It's very easy to enforce it, which is have two balls and it doesn't have to be policed.

The next reaction is we can't get enough people around the course in 2s, but an understanding of tee time management will show that there is a difference of 20-30 golfers in the day less but they will get around the course much quicker and have a nicer experience.

A further reaction is we can't have competitions so clubs will lose out on much needed revenue, what is meant by this is 'I like the competitive side of golf and I want a scorecard in my hand all the time'. There is nothing wrong with liking the competitive side of golf but it is not necessary to have an organised competition every time some one goes out. It's also easy to have a match against your playing partner or have an informal competition with the group in front or behind etc. Not having competitions for a month will not effect the finances of any club significantly.

Finally, golf has not been treated any differently to any other sport. No mass organised sport has been allowed. There is no organised sailing, kayaking, rock climbing, javelin throwing, archery or any other outdoor sport where distancing is easy. Why should golf be different?

The approach I would have taken would have been to get the sports to show that they're safe, that distancing is easy and every measure that was there for the general population, such as no unnecessary travel outside 5k and no mixing of households, would have been adhered to and the sports themselves would have given the guarantee that the rules would have been followed and they would enforce them.

Can you imagine the shouting and roaring there would have been in the last few months if golf was open but the 5k had to be observed? Maybe all the golfers who ignored the 5k rule last May should look at themselves and see why the authorities might come to the conclusion that if it was allowed there would be too much movement of people? And widespread ignoring of restrictions would lead to others ignoring restrictions. After all we did have the highest incidence of the virus in the world at the end of December, even while there were some restrictions at the time. Drastic action was needed, some might say it wasn't harsh enough, it's taken us 4 months to get back to where we were just so we had a couple of weeks of a 'meaningful' Christmas.

RGS · 09-04-2021 1:41pm

Its amazing that golf only closed in Scotland for 60 or so days whereas golf in Ireland will be closed around 210 days.

Do the Scottish NPHET not realise that golfers cant be trusted or is it only irish golfers cant be trusted.
NPHET appear to look at ways to close activities whereas other countries looked at ways to open activities that are deemed safer. No activity is without risk.

Construction is the same. In most countries construction stayed open we closed it and only allowed certain Public sites re open.

Pdoghue · 09-04-2021 1:44pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

However there was a significant amount of virus transmission associated with activities related to golf around Christmas, there were transmissions in clubhouses, shared car journeys and taxi journeys.

Care to put figures, specific incidents on this claim?

newport2 · 09-04-2021 1:51pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Care to put figures, specific incidents on this claim?

Or in addition, explain why no other country in the world sees the need to have courses closed?

PARlance · 09-04-2021 1:53pm

RGS wrote: »

Its amazing that golf only closed in Scotland for 60 or so days whereas golf in Ireland will be closed around 210 days.

Do the Scottish NPHET not realise that golfers cant be trusted or is it only irish golfers cant be trusted.
NPHET appear to look at ways to close activities whereas other countries looked at ways to open activities that are deemed safer. No activity is without risk.

Construction is the same. In most countries construction stayed open we closed it and only allowed certain Public sites re open.

Nphet is not the problem, it's doing its job based on the remit given to it.

The problem is a weak Government allowing nphet to run the entire show.

09-04-2021 1:55pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Care to put figures, specific incidents on this claim?

My guess is there is no evidence to support that.

That whole post is full of whataboutery.

Lip Out · 09-04-2021 2:02pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Care to put figures, specific incidents on this claim?

It is the 2nd time he has spouted that nonsense and he didn't back up his claims on the previous occasion when questioned on it.

Pdoghue · 09-04-2021 2:02pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Can you imagine the shouting and roaring there would have been in the last few months if golf was open but the 5k had to be observed? Maybe all the golfers who ignored the 5k rule last May should look at themselves and see why the authorities might come to the conclusion that if it was allowed there would be too much movement of people? And widespread ignoring of restrictions would lead to others ignoring restrictions. After all we did have the highest incidence of the virus in the world at the end of December, even while there were some restrictions at the time. Drastic action was needed, some might say it wasn't harsh enough, it's taken us 4 months to get back to where we were just so we had a couple of weeks of a 'meaningful' Christmas.

I remember there was a time when NPHET allowed members to travel to their clubs across county boundaries.

You really don't think people can apply common sense and safety measures themselves can you? Most sensible golfers wouldn't have been or won't be packed into a car with a load of others travelling to their club.

And how can you expect the clubs to police how people travel to and from their clubs?

h2005 · 09-04-2021 2:08pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

It's completely true that there is no risk with one person getting in the car driving from home to golf, stopping nowhere and playing on their own.

However there was a significant amount of virus transmission associated with activities related to golf around Christmas, there were transmissions in clubhouses, shared car journeys and taxi journeys.

So golf is not the problem, it was what golfers were doing before and after golf that caused issues.The solutions are no clubhouses and limit the number of households that can play together. To say that there is no logic or reason behinds the decisions is false and it shows that many are not even willing to look at the decision to figure it out and would rather just shout about how decision makers are clueless.

The other reaction is to say that the 2 household rule is unenforceable but when this is said what is really meant is 'I don't like it, so it shouldn't be enforced'. It's very easy to enforce it, which is have two balls and it doesn't have to be policed.

The next reaction is we can't get enough people around the course in 2s, but an understanding of tee time management will show that there is a difference of 20-30 golfers in the day less but they will get around the course much quicker and have a nicer experience.

A further reaction is we can't have competitions so clubs will lose out on much needed revenue, what is meant by this is 'I like the competitive side of golf and I want a scorecard in my hand all the time'. There is nothing wrong with liking the competitive side of golf but it is not necessary to have an organised competition every time some one goes out. It's also easy to have a match against your playing partner or have an informal competition with the group in front or behind etc. Not having competitions for a month will not effect the finances of any club significantly.

Finally, golf has not been treated any differently to any other sport. No mass organised sport has been allowed. There is no organised sailing, kayaking, rock climbing, javelin throwing, archery or any other outdoor sport where distancing is easy. Why should golf be different?

The approach I would have taken would have been to get the sports to show that they're safe, that distancing is easy and every measure that was there for the general population, such as no unnecessary travel outside 5k and no mixing of households, would have been adhered to and the sports themselves would have given the guarantee that the rules would have been followed and they would enforce them.

Can you imagine the shouting and roaring there would have been in the last few months if golf was open but the 5k had to be observed? Maybe all the golfers who ignored the 5k rule last May should look at themselves and see why the authorities might come to the conclusion that if it was allowed there would be too much movement of people? And widespread ignoring of restrictions would lead to others ignoring restrictions. After all we did have the highest incidence of the virus in the world at the end of December, even while there were some restrictions at the time. Drastic action was needed, some might say it wasn't harsh enough, it's taken us 4 months to get back to where we were just so we had a couple of weeks of a 'meaningful' Christmas.

Is there data available on the significant amount of transmissions?

RoadRunner · 09-04-2021 2:15pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Care to put figures, specific incidents on this claim?

The duration of time we've been in forced locked down now a percentage of people will exhibit symptoms of stockholm syndrome a response that occurs when hostages or abuse victims bond with their captors or abusers.

opinionated3 · 09-04-2021 2:24pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Care to put figures, specific incidents on this claim?

I quizzed him on that already and he wouldn't give a definitive answer.
He also wants the sport to basically "prove" itself to be safe. Even people who never swung a golf club in their life, know this sport to be safe as houses. He also seemingly has a problem with a quick return to fourballs, claiming a two ball scenario is better. I have no idea what club he's a member of, or if he is trolling, but I'm certain if our club was to persist with that sort of foolishness we would inevitably lose members.
Bottom line, golf is safe, open it up FULLY.

Lefty2Guns · 09-04-2021 2:25pm

Got an email from our club (Arklow) to say 2-balls to start off with. Competitions at the weekend only.

Pdoghue · 09-04-2021 2:40pm

opinionated3 wrote: »

I quizzed him on that already and he wouldn't give a definitive answer.
He also wants the sport to basically "prove" itself to be safe. Even people who never swung a golf club in their life, know this sport to be safe as houses. He also seemingly has a problem with a quick return to fourballs, claiming a two ball scenario is better. I have no idea what club he's a member of, or if he is trolling, but I'm certain if our club was to persist with that sort of foolishness we would inevitably lose members.
Bottom line, golf is safe, open it up FULLY.

Agreed.. and it does look like tolling.

Kingswood Rover · 09-04-2021 4:37pm

From the Golf Ireland FAQ on the return of golf in the Rep of Ireland.
Q. Whose role is it to monitor members coming to our club?
A. It is the responsibility of individuals to observe society-wide public health
guidelines. Whilst golf clubs must ensure that the game is played safely, it is not the
responsibility of golf clubs to ensure that members adhere to the laws of the land.

Q. How many people can I play golf with?
A "In the initial phase of reopening in Level 5, the Irish Government have decided that
participants in sport and exercise activity must be from no more than two
households. Therefore, groups playing on golf courses during this initial phase must
be confined to a maximum of two households. This means that all tee times must
be either two- balls, or alternatively three-balls and four-balls where players in the
group are from no more than two household"

So its up to the Members to stick to public health advice which atm on the 26th is people from two households can meet outside. 3 Balls at 9 minute intervals probably the way to go Mum or Dad and son or daughter with a pal of either.

ShivasIrons · 09-04-2021 4:39pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Agreed.. and it does look like tolling.

It's not trolling, there was a golf club in the south which had a function before Christmas, one of the members got the virus at the function and unfortunately passed away.

I am not going to name specific clubs or incidents. I think that is inappropriate. There are more then a few.

ShivasIrons · 09-04-2021 4:49pm

opinionated3 wrote: »

I quizzed him on that already and he wouldn't give a definitive answer.
He also wants the sport to basically "prove" itself to be safe. Even people who never swung a golf club in their life, know this sport to be safe as houses. He also seemingly has a problem with a quick return to fourballs, claiming a two ball scenario is better. I have no idea what club he's a member of, or if he is trolling, but I'm certain if our club was to persist with that sort of foolishness we would inevitably lose members.
Bottom line, golf is safe, open it up FULLY.

I am trying to explain to you why the 2 household rule is there and also how it is possible to get golfers around a course efficiently in 2 balls but to be honest you don't seem to be interested in any explanations.

No golf club will lose members, the experience worldwide and in Ireland too is that golf is going through it's biggest boom ever with players flocking to clubs.

I also have never said that golf isn't safe. It is, but as NPHET have stated they are worried about activities around sport. Don't you think if clubs were willing to show that they would put in measures to mitigate against these that we might have been back to playing sooner?

Why not take a little paired back version to get to play sooner? Is really no competitions and 2 balls only that harsh? Would golfers have accepted 2 balls only, no competitions and no travelling beyond 5ks back in January if it meant they could play?

blue note · 09-04-2021 4:56pm

I can imagine clubs ignoring this and members too. So courses effectively being full of fourballs from 4 different households. Which could be a problem if the papers / government take an interest. So like the GAA sanctioning the GAA teams who trained in breach of the restrictions, Golf Ireland could have to sanction clubs. If golfers can't be trusted to adhere to the restrictions on a voluntary basis they might force clubs to make it two balls only. Which actually wouldn't inconvenience the majority of members if they are to play adhering to the rules. I virtually never play with people who live together. And in reality the vast majority of people play with people from different households. So if people adhere to the restrictions and clubs set up for 4balls you'll have mainly two balls out at 4ball intervals. Whereas if they set up for twoballs you'll get more people onto the course.

The support bubble is completely misunderstood too. Most people seem to just think of their bubble as the circle of people they interact with. So if they're doing the shopping for their parents and their siblings are too they regard all of those people as their bubble. But a support bubble is for the likes of someone living on their own - they can join another household for covid restriction purposes. I expect golf clubs to be full of people who are in their support bubbles if asked, but in reality just people from other households.

09-04-2021 5:23pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

It's not trolling, there was a golf club in the south which had a function before Christmas, one of the members got the virus at the function and unfortunately passed away.

I am not going to name specific clubs or incidents. I think that is inappropriate. There are more then a few.

Well I seen an article saying that someone got Covid in a park and died, we should close down all parks indefinitely.

Some logic.

HarryStuby · 09-04-2021 5:37pm

Folks anyone know of any golf courses open to non members in the Dublin/Kildare area?
Thanks

Seve OB · 09-04-2021 5:44pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

I am trying to explain to you why the 2 household rule is there and also how it is possible to get golfers around a course efficiently in 2 balls but to be honest you don't seem to be interested in any explanations.

No golf club will lose members, the experience worldwide and in Ireland too is that golf is going through it's biggest boom ever with players flocking to clubs.

I also have never said that golf isn't safe. It is, but as NPHET have stated they are worried about activities around sport. Don't you think if clubs were willing to show that they would put in measures to mitigate against these that we might have been back to playing sooner?

Why not take a little paired back version to get to play sooner? Is really no competitions and 2 balls only that harsh? Would golfers have accepted 2 balls only, no competitions and no travelling beyond 5ks back in January if it meant they could play?

To be honest you sound like you work for are NPHET and are struggling to defend terrible decisions

thecomedian · 09-04-2021 5:47pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

It's not trolling, there was a golf club in the south which had a function before Christmas, one of the members got the virus at the function and unfortunately passed away.

I am not going to name specific clubs or incidents. I think that is inappropriate. There are more then a few.

That’s not golf though.
That’s why pubs are closed. No one is saying that the clubhouse/bar should be open, they just want to be playing golf in a very large field.
I’ve seen the excuses about people saying the 5 km shouldn’t be extended because a person could stop at a shop on their way and get a coffee.

All a load of rubbish. Ban the sale of takeaway coffee if it’s a problem

thecomedian · 09-04-2021 5:50pm

I think people are questioning NPHET more now and are realising that a lot of the decisions don’t make sense. The science doesn’t support it either.

blue note · 09-04-2021 5:52pm

thecomedian wrote: »

I think people are questioning NPHET more now and are realising that a lot of the decisions don’t make sense. The science doesn’t support it either.

The last week has been cold - are we back in December? Because this is exactly what happened then!

thecomedian · 09-04-2021 6:00pm

blue note wrote: »

The last week has been cold - are we back in December? Because this is exactly what happened then!

What they opened up golf courses and Covid spread through them?
Or all the cases spread through outdoor activities?

They are the points I’m making, I don’t know where you are trying to go with this?

December was from all the indoor gatherings. No one will dispute this.

bustercherry · 09-04-2021 6:12pm

thecomedian wrote: »

I think people are questioning NPHET more now and are realising that a lot of the decisions don’t make sense. The science doesn’t support it either.

The science is correct as has been pointed out numerous times. Restrict contact and movement of people for essential purposes only to prevent community outbreaks.

People are questioning policy based upon risk.

Seve OB · 09-04-2021 7:44pm

one of my clubs has emailed
2 balls only for most of the day with provisions for 3-4 balls in the evenings but must be booked through pro shop
9 holes only
4 bookings per member per week, only one at the weekend
no mention of competition
will be reviewed 9th may

higster · 09-04-2021 7:51pm

From mine...

Tee sheets will open 7 days in advance to members only at 9PM. The below restrictions will be put in place to adhere to Government & Golf Ireland Guidelines

· All golf will be casual golf, there will be no competitions during the initial return to golf phase
· Tee times between 7.30am & 12.00 are restricted to 2 balls every 8 minutes from 2 different households. We would recommend that members from the same household play together where possible.
· All bookings can be made via online at https://www.xxxx or by using the Golf Club app.
· If you are having difficulty, please call the Golf shop & a members of the golf team will be delighted to assist
· Tee times between 12.10 & 20.00 are restricted to 2/3 balls every 10 minutes from 2 different households.
· A 3rd player can be added by calling or emailing the Golf shop & a member of the golf team will add the 3rd player in accordance with government & golf Ireland return to play guidelines.

finglashoop · 09-04-2021 7:57pm

Seve OB wrote: »

one of my clubs has emailed
2 balls only for most of the day with provisions for 3-4 balls in the evenings but must be booked through pro shop
9 holes only
4 bookings per member per week, only one at the weekend
no mention of competition
will be reviewed 9th may

elmgreen the same

also advise to use a computer when tee time opens cause chronogolf is absolute dog ****e

opinionated3 · 09-04-2021 8:04pm

Utterly idiotic rules. None of which will keep anyone safer than what they already are. We really are a bunch of cowardly sheep that accept any old rubbish in this country. Infuriating.

Seve OB · 09-04-2021 8:32pm

finglashoop wrote: »

elmgreen the same

also advise to use a computer when tee time opens cause chronogolf is absolute dog ****e

yes forgot to add that bit about chronograph

also no mention of qualifying scores being allowed/sign in on computer etc. as i said, they didn't mention competition at all
they previously insisted that the computer in shop had to be used to enter scores, i had pestered them before about using the how did i do app, but they weren't for moving and i don't know why.
i'll be at them again this time around if i see them update about posting scores

h2005 · 09-04-2021 9:14pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

It's not trolling, there was a golf club in the south which had a function before Christmas, one of the members got the virus at the function and unfortunately passed away.

I am not going to name specific clubs or incidents. I think that is inappropriate. There are more then a few.

Rubbish. That has nothing to do with playing golf. Have you any other data or examples?

Kid Charlemagne · 09-04-2021 10:56pm

h2005 wrote: »

Rubbish. That has nothing to do with playing golf. Have you any other data or examples?

Agreed. Absolute tripe. "My wife's cousin's hairdresser's dog's best friend caught the covid from a rabid golfball blah blah blah"

OEP · 10-04-2021 1:42pm

Are driving ranges allowed to open on 26th?

10-04-2021 1:50pm

OEP wrote: »

Are driving ranges allowed to open on 26th?

Yes

manster · 10-04-2021 9:39pm

I hope that there will be some reductions in green fees for the more high end golf courses now that USA have been added to the quarantine list. Maybe August and September.

willabur · 10-04-2021 10:59pm

manster wrote: »

I hope that there will be some reductions in green fees for the more high end golf courses now that USA have been added to the quarantine list. Maybe August and September.

GUI rates accepted at tralee til end of July then they expect the yanks to come in. Fees back up to 240 or so

IHateNewShoes · 10-04-2021 11:03pm

willabur wrote: »

GUI rates accepted at tralee til end of July then they expect the yanks to come in. Fees back up to 240 or so

How much is the GUI rate? Do they have open comps in Tralee usually?

Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions