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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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Comments

  • #702
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    What do you mean not as qualified.

    Each qualification qualifies the person to do the job their qualified to do.

    You appear to be hinting at levels of intelligence rather than different professions.
    Should the people who got the most points in the leaving cert earn more money?

    Of course the intellectual capacity of your average Pharmacist is higher- their course is academically more challenging (you need Honours Chemistry for starters and the points are far higher)! Are we not allowed to mention that fact in the sterile world of “everyone’s a winner” and everyone is the same? I don’t think so, we’ve had different salaries for different jobs since time immemorial, it’s a basic fact of life


  • #703
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    No, don't be silly, the L.C is used to gain entry to 3rd level courses.

    However, the L.C is a test to weed out and segregate mental capacities and memory performance and indeed hard work.

    Is it a coincidence that Nursing is 400pts and Pharmacy is 580pts?

    Paediatric nursing is often 500 points.


  • #704
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    I'm not a nurse...but I have the greatest admiration for what they do, the hours that they work, and the conditions they work under...

    I think we can afford to restore their wages per Martina's post

    That’s all very noble but how can we afford to increase their salary above and beyond recent incrases and ongoing increments?


  • #705
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    Dia1988 wrote:
    Is it a coincidence that Nursing is 400pts and Pharmacy is 580pts?
    Points increase based on demand for the course and the points applicants acheive.

    The points for medical science in CIT were 521 in 2018. The same course in GMIT was 445.

    Should the Cork graduates earn more than the Galway ones?


  • #706
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    road_high wrote: »
    That’s all very noble but how can we afford to increase their salary above and beyond re ever incrases and ongoing increments?

    Very simple...we don't dole out needless and ineffective tax cuts...


  • #707
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,408 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Points requirement is dictated by the ratio of number of available places versus the number of people applying for a course.


  • #708
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Points requirement is dictated by the ratio of number of available places versus the number of people applying for a course.

    It is primarily demand driven...but it is also driven by the points achievement of the applicants to the course...


  • #709
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    Very simple...we don't dole out needless and ineffective tax cuts...

    Of which there really have been minuscule ones and taxes are still are excessive levels. So we leave the burden on other taxpayers- at least we know where we stand now folks. Your wage packet will fund this madness


  • #710
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    road_high wrote:
    That’s all very noble but how can we afford to increase their salary above and beyond re ever incrases and ongoing increments?
    We could afford it before it was cut. Why cant we find the money again.

    This isnt a pay rise. This is pay restoration.


  • #711
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    road_high wrote: »
    Of which there really have been minuscule ones and taxes are still are excessive levels. So we leave the burden on other taxpayers- at least we know where we stand now folks. Your wage packet will fund this madness

    Are you serious?

    The people you are talking about have just spent the last six weeks celebrating Christmas...


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  • #712
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    I think we should let them nurses continue moaning and sack them if they go on strike.

    All we need to is employ nurses from Asia that'll be very appreciative of their job!

    Play their bluff I say!


  • #713
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    We could afford it before it was cut. Why cant we find the money again.

    This isnt a pay rise. This is pay restoration.

    Because we had an economy based on a bubble of speculative taxes. We were spending like madmen based on those. That’s what previous pay levels were based on.
    We can’t find the money because we simply don't have it as the economy is in a different place now.


  • #714
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    The people you are talking about have just spent the last six weeks celebrating Christmas...

    What the hell has Christmas got to do with anything?


  • #715
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    road_high wrote: »
    Because we had an economy based on a bubble of speculative taxes. We were spending like madmen based on those. That’s what previous pay levels were based on.
    We can’t find the money because we simply don't have it as the economy is in a different place now.

    ...damn it I'm not giving up that third bottle of prosecco or that 192 car just so we can have a decent health service....


  • #716
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    road_high wrote: »
    What the hell has Christmas got to do with anything?

    The very people you refer to are most likely the ones who have been celebrating the magic, and joy of Christmas for the last six weeks...stuffing their faces with mince pies, oxford lunches, shopping till they drop...

    They are not to the pin of their collar

    D4, D14, D18 etc can afford to pay for restoration...


  • #717
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Points requirement is dictated by the ratio of number of available places versus the number of people applying for a course.


    It is indeed but when the points are consistently at high levels like in Pharmacy it does mean the applicants have on average a higher intellectual capacity.


  • #718
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    road_high wrote: »
    Because we had an economy based on a bubble of speculative taxes. We were spending like madmen based on those. That’s what previous pay levels were based on.
    We can’t find the money because we simply don't have it as the economy is in a different place now.

    Bull****..we had a bust because some folks went mad borrowing...

    It had little to do with nurses salaries

    There were very few nurses flipping properties in trendy bars on a summer Friday afternoon


  • #719
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    road_high wrote: »
    It is indeed but when the points are consistently at high levels like in Pharmacy it does mean the applicants have on average a higher intellectual capacity.

    Yes like Primary teaching the cut off point is usually 470 and the intake is about 400 students. Therefore the average is in or around 530.


  • #720
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    The very people you refer to are most likely the ones who have been celebrating the magic, and joy of Christmas for the last six weeks...stuffing their faces with mince pies, oxford lunches, shopping till they drop...

    They are not to the pin of their collar

    D4, D14, D18 etc can afford to pay for restoration...

    I don’t live in D4 and I’m a taxpayer as are the majority of us, so I’ll be paying too. People are entitled to enjoy their hard earnings in any case- communism didn’t work out very well as a concept


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  • #721
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,309 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    Bull****..we had a bust because some folks went mad borrowing...

    It had little to do with nurses salaries

    There were very few nurses flipping properties in trendy bars on a summer Friday afternoon
    Sure all the nurses all they would chat about during the boom was all those properties they were buying in Bulgaria....


  • #722
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    Bull****..we had a bust because some folks went mad borrowing...

    It had little to do with nurses salaries

    There were very few nurses flipping properties in trendy bars on a summer Friday afternoon

    It was the public fiscal deficit that had us in trouble really. Primarily unaffordable public sector wages and welfare. It was the main reason we ran a €12 billion euro deficit in 2009 and everyone stopped lending to us. But yea, easier just blame the banks etc rather than look at ourselves as a nation


  • #723
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    road_high wrote: »
    It was the public fiscal deficit that had us in trouble really. Primarily unaffordable public sector wages and welfare. It was the main reason we ran a €12 billion euro deficit in 2009 and everyone stopped lending to us. But yea, easier just blame the banks etc rather than look at ourselves as a nation

    Quite correct. Our public spending was unsustainable, and we do have to be careful. No argument there.

    But the argument that we can't afford to restore nurses pay is misleading and disingenuous. If we can afford to pay TDs and RTE presenters obscene salaries (the latter for doing almost no work of value), then we can afford to improve the standard of pay of our nurses.

    We also need to make it competitive, so we don't lose the best talent to other countries...we can't afford not to restore their pay.


  • #724
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    Quite correct. Our public spending was unsustainable, and we do have to be careful. No argument there.

    But the argument that we can't afford to restore nurses pay is misleading and disingenuous. If we can afford to pay TDs and RTE presenters obscene salaries (the latter for doing almost no work of value), then we can afford to improve the standard of pay of our nurses.

    We also need to make it competitive, so we don't lose the best talent to other countries...we can't afford not to restore their pay.

    There's 82,000 nurses available to work in Ireland, we can't pay them above and beyond especially when they are getting staged increases already. Their last increase was only last Octaber and it was April before that.

    If we give them this increase they'll continue to moan anyway , they'll want shorter work hours , 9 to 5 hrs even more pay. They're a bunch of typical women always moaning and wanting people's pity, it's what they do best!


  • #725
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    Yes like Primary teaching the cut off point is usually 470 and the intake is about 400 students. Therefore the average is in or around 530.

    Agree


  • #726
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    There's 82,000 nurses available to work in Ireland, we can't pay them above and beyond especially when they are getting staged increases already. Their last increase was only last Octaber and it was April before that.

    If we give them this increase they'll continue to moan anyway , they'll want shorter work hours , 9 to 5 hrs even more pay. They're a bunch of typical women always moaning and wanting people's pity, it's what they do best!

    What is your gender as a matter of interest?


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  • #727
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    What is your gender as a matter of interest?

    I'm gender fluid!


  • #728
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,309 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    I'm gender fluid!
    Yehhh I am sure...the only fluid involved is you taking the p#ss.


  • #729
    KaneToad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    I'm not a nurse...but I have the greatest admiration for what they do, the hours that they work, and the conditions they work under...

    I think we can afford to restore their wages per Martina's post

    Do the occupational therapists not do great work in bad conditions? Should we restore their wages?

    What about community welfare officers?

    What about prison officers?

    What about teachers?


  • #730
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    gmisk wrote: »
    Yehhh I am sure...the only fluid involved is you taking the p#ss.

    Sorry, but your question asking what gender I am is irrelevant to this topic.

    What age are you?


  • #731
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    Yes like Primary teaching the cut off point is usually 470 and the intake is about 400 students. Therefore the average is in or around 530.



    That's not how averages work. Your maths isn't great.


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  • #732
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,309 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    Sorry, but your question asking what gender I am is irrelevant to this topic.

    What age are you?
    I didn't ask you a question...

    You said something about nurses all being a load of woman sitting around moaning...you seem to still think we live in an era where there aren't males nurses.

    What the heck has my age got to do with anything?


  • #733
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    That's not how averages work. Your maths isn't great.

    The Mean according to the CAO is 530!

    The lowest points accepted were 470


  • #734
    Glenbhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Glenbhoy


    I would recommend that posters have a look at the report I mentioned earlier in the thread "nursing and midwifery - department of public expenditure and reform"
    I would link to it, but it's proving difficult from the phone! Google "dper report nursing" and it'll be there.
    The report provides the government with its information for negotiating and to my mind is the definitive info on salaries and conditions, I'd like to hear contrary opinions as to why it may be inaccurate.
    The report in general finds wages to be very competitive internationally, staff turnover low, number of nurses per capita high amongst other things.


  • #735
    hawkelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    What is your gender as a matter of interest?

    Don’t entertain that lemon ! She can’t spell or comprehend basic math so it isn’t worth engaging with.


  • #736
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    gmisk wrote: »
    I didn't ask you a question...

    You said something about nurses all being a load of woman sitting around moaning...you seem to still think we live in an era where there aren't males nurses.

    What the heck has my age got to do with anything?

    88% of nurses in Ireland are women (NMBI 2017)


  • #737
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,309 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    88% of nurses in Ireland are women (NMBI 2017)
    OK... So 88 percent just sitting round moaning then according to you?


  • #738
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    Glenbhoy wrote: »
    I would recommend that posters have a look at the report I mentioned earlier in the thread "nursing and midwifery - department of public expenditure and reform"
    I would link to it, but it's proving difficult from the phone! Google "dper report nursing" and it'll be there.
    The report provides the government with its information for negotiating and to my mind is the definitive info on salaries and conditions, I'd like to hear contrary opinions as to why it may be inaccurate.
    The report in general finds wages to be very competitive internationally, staff turnover low, number of nurses per capita high amongst other things.

    Okay so improve the conditions only then.

    Why are these nurses striking for more pay then when their own report shows they get paid over the average in the EU?


  • #739
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    Okay so improve the conditions only then.

    Why are these nurses striking for more pay then when their own report shows they get paid over the average in the EU?

    Sorry but this paid more than the average EU nurse is not a valid argument.

    The cost of living in Ireland is exceptionslly high so that has to be factored in. Cant expect an Irish nurse to earn that of a nurse in Hungary


  • #740
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    The Mean according to the CAO is 530!

    The lowest points accepted were 470

    Could you link please. I'm sure you're right but the distribution on that seems strange.


  • #741
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    Sorry but this paid more than the average EU nurse is not a valid argument.

    The cost of living in Ireland is exceptionslly high so that has to be factored in. Cant expect an Irish nurse to earn that of a nurse in Hungary

    NEWS FLASH!!!

    There's an area in Ireland outside of Dublin that costs considerably less!


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  • #742
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    NEWS FLASH!!!

    There's an area in Ireland outside of Dublin that costs considerably less!

    And the cost of living us stil high. There is more to living than rent.

    You want nurses to commute to Crumlin from Roscommon?


  • #743
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    NEWS FLASH!!!

    There's an area in Ireland outside of Dublin that costs considerably less!

    Oh so to add insult to injury...you want nurses to commute from the arsehole of Laois or Offaly to work their 12 hour shift in Dublin....


  • #744
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    And the cost of living us stil high. There is more to living than rent.

    You want nurses to commute to Crumlin from Roscommon?

    No, they can work in Roscommon health centres and hospitals with radius.


  • #745
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    NEWS FLASH!!!

    There's an area in Ireland outside of Dublin that costs considerably less!

    What area or profession do you work in?


  • #746
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    alexmalalex wrote: »
    Oh so to add insult to injury...you want nurses to commute from the arsehole of Laois or Offaly to work their 12 hour shift in Dublin....

    Can nurses only work in Dublin hospitals?


  • #747
    alexmalalex
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 139 ✭✭alexmalalex


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    No, they can work in Roscommon health centres and hospitals with radius.

    If you take this logic to its natural conclusion, we would have no hospitals in Dublin


  • #748
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,309 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    NEWS FLASH!!!

    There's an area in Ireland outside of Dublin that costs considerably less!
    I think rents are also pretty sky high in most other cities in Ireland as well though no?
    And hospitals do tend to you know be in cities a lot of the time.


  • #749
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Only one way to sort it

    - pick one ward and hunt all the hse staff out of it*
    ( including managers etc )


    - staff it with a small herd of agency nurses

    - tell them to run n organise it anyway they want, all you'll be doing is looking at results n feedback


    Do the same, in the same hospital but fill it with the Asian Crew :)


    Let the fun begin





    * obv. not doctors before some clown says it


  • #750
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Dia1988 wrote: »
    No, they can work in Roscommon health centres and hospitals with radius.

    So all the nurses can move and work in Roscommon cause its cheaper?


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  • #751
    Dia1988
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Dia1988


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    What area or profession do you work in?

    Please state the relevance of this question to this thread.


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