Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

kona

salonfire wrote: »

There should be a decent location allowance given to all public sector workers in Dublin due to the cost of living there.

Then benchmark the private sector off it.

Fann Linn

salonfire wrote: »

There should be a decent location allowance given to all public sector workers in Dublin due to the cost of living there.

Would only drive up rental prices even further.

road_high

Matt Barrett wrote: »

To be fair they find it when they want to.

But you don’t “find money”. You borrow or take it from someone or somewhere else. Clearly our education system is failing here big time. No wonder we are one of the most personally indebted nations on the planet if the standard answer is “we’ll get it somewhere”...if thats now the standard approach to managing money

road_high

goldlocks10 wrote: »

Pay the nurses get staff. Where are the staff? They are not in Ireland. Recruit over seas. In Oz you have 4 patients to 1 nurse, care is great. In Ireland you have 10-12 patient to 1 nurse. I know who I want going after me.

Why is our nurse to population ratio the third highest in Europe? Where are all these nurses?

road_high

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Says who? The state can afford lots of things. It can afford a huge overrun of the children's hospital. It can afford extra TDs pay.

It can afford anything if they want to spend the money.

This is an incredible statement. How can it afford anything? There’s a finite pool of cash from which they can take tax. After that you’re borrowing on the money markets or selling state assets.
Kamikaze stuff from some posters here, this will Land is back in 2009 make no mistake

road_high

Gringo180 wrote: »

Divide and Conquer works great in Ireland. Meanwhile the politicians are getting another payrise in the coming weeks if I heard right.

I don’t see it as such, I can very much make my own mind to thanks.
And I don’t agree with pay increases for politicians at this time either, the optics of it are terrible and illustrates the irresponsible behavior goes right to the top. There’s multiple more nurses and health staff hence a massively larger burden for the state.

road_high

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Exactly but like 99% of companies there is overtime just like there is in hospitals.

Have you a solution?

Communitsm maybe?

I’ve worked in companies where there was no overtime- you were on a salary and that was that. Many times had to work overtime during busy periods. Such is life in real world.

Fann Linn

road_high wrote: »

This is an incredible statement. How can it afford anything? There’s a finite pool of cash from which they can take tax. After that you’re borrowing on the money markets or selling state assets.
Kamikaze stuff from some posters here, this will Land is back in 2009 make no mistake

But there is some truth in all this kamikaze talk. We do put up with over runs in costs, be they for hospitals, motorways, tunnels, national aquatic centres and a myriad of other state prpjects.

When politicians are asked or held accountable they bat these over runs aside with farcical answers and reasons.

Why should people then believe them when payclaims are rejected just because the same politicians say 'we can't afford it'?

salonfire

road_high wrote: »

This is an incredible statement. How can it afford anything? There’s a finite pool of cash from which they can take tax. After that you’re borrowing on the money markets or selling state assets.
Kamikaze stuff from some posters here, this will Land is back in 2009 make no mistake

Yep. Very disheartening to see nothing has been learned form the harsh lessons we were dealt just a few years ago.

The country just about broke even last year. And that was on the back of large windfalls from Corporation Tax that no one was expecting or knows where the hell it all come from.

And now people are clamouring to increase spending on salaries (which is permanent) based on another boom.

road_high

Fann Linn wrote: »

But there is some truth in all this kamikaze talk. We do put up with over runs in costs, be they for hospitals, motorways, tunnels, national aquatic centres and a myriad of other state prpjects.

When politicians are asked or held accountable they bat these over runs aside with farcical answers and reasons.

Why should people then believe them when payclaims are rejected just because the same politicians say 'we can't afford it'?

For capital projects in recent years there are very tight controls on cost over runs. They basically don't happen anymore once a project is underway. They tightened all that up about 15 years ago.

Fann Linn

road_high wrote: »

For capital projects in recent years there are very tight controls on cost over runs. They basically don't happen anymore once a project is underway. They tightened all that up about 15 years ago.

Childrens hospital.plus €800,000,000

salonfire

Fann Linn wrote: »

But there is some truth in all this kamikaze talk. We do put up with over runs in costs, be they for hospitals, motorways, tunnels, national aquatic centres and a myriad of other state prpjects.

When politicians are asked or held accountable they bat these over runs aside with farcical answers and reasons.

Why should people then believe them when payclaims are rejected just because the same politicians say 'we can't afford it'?

More illiterate garbage.

Yes, there is projects that over-run. But equally, there is other projects that come under budget, somewhat offsetting the over-runs. Not ideal I know, but projects are a one off and provide an economic return.

Increasing salaries by 300m is 300m that must be found everyyear.

branie2

I hope so

Fann Linn

salonfire wrote: »

More illiterate garbage.

Yes, there is projects that over-run. But equally, there is other projects that come under budget, somewhat offsetting the over-runs. Not ideal I know, but projects are a one off and provide an economic return.

Increasing salaries by 300m is 300m that must be found everyyear.

And we heard that 2 years ago and they could find €80,000,000 in the back pocket for the Gardai payrise. Which must be found every year.

Let them pay the nurses now.

road_high

salonfire wrote: »

Yep. Very disheartening to see nothing has been learned form the harsh lessons we were dealt just a few years ago.

The country just about broke even last year. And that was on the back of large windfalls from Corporation Tax that no one was expecting or knows where the hell it all come from.

And now people are clamouring to increase spending on salaries (which is permanent) based on another boom.

I despair reading this stuff. Yes, I’d have to conclude we learned nothing and sadly there is a cohort out for all they can milk from the state, regardless of the consequences to anyone else or their own long term viability’s. They admit as much here.
If they finally bankrupt the state which they all seem determined to do then it’s back to the same cuts as 2009, possibly even worse next time around.
The scary thing for me is that personal taxes are still now at sub-penal rates- they weren’t in 2007/8 as we hit the last recession and yet now we are still barely threading water. That says to me we are still living a fair bit beyond our means and instead of anyone crying stop, we are accelerating towards another cliff.
There’s nothing much left to give next time.

salonfire

Fann Linn wrote: »

Childrens hospital.plus €800,000,000

Maybe with the budget overrun, extra features and equipment not originally included in the estimate has been requested by the HSE?

im6foot4

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nurses could demand 150 k per annum and most would support them, we adore nurses in Ireland

Why wouldn't anyone adore nurses?

road_high

Fann Linn wrote: »

Childrens hospital.plus €800,000,000

That’s the initial cost- not the same as the project itself over running.

Fann Linn

salonfire wrote: »

Maybe with the budget overrun, extra features and equipment not originally included in the estimate has been requested by the HSE?

Dress it up any way you like.

Wheeliebin30

salonfire wrote: »

Yep. Very disheartening to see nothing has been learned form the harsh lessons we were dealt just a few years ago.

The country just about broke even last year. And that was on the back of large windfalls from Corporation Tax that no one was expecting or knows where the hell it all come from.

And now people are clamouring to increase spending on salaries (which is permanent) based on another boom.

That’s why the big boys are in power and the kids aren’t.

salonfire

Fann Linn wrote: »

And we heard that 2 years ago and they could find €80,000,000 in the back pocket for the Gardai payrise. Which must be found every year.

Let them pay the nurses now.

Exactly. That set the precedent and should not have happened. The Government should have stood firm against the Gardai.

Now the floodgates are opened, it will be a smash and grab by various public sector unions. Another 200m needs to be found for the teachers.

You'd swear people really do believe their is a money tree somewhere ready for harvest.

I could understand the pay claims somewhat if the country's coffers were bursting at the seams but that is far from the reality.

Fann Linn

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

That’s why the big boys are in power and the kids aren’t.

I hope ye don't mean FG because Hildegard didn't sound too convincing last night.

Wheeliebin30

salonfire wrote: »

Exactly. That set the precedent and should not have happened. The Government should have stood firm against the Gardai.

Now the floodgates are opened, it will be a smash and grab by various public sector unions. Another 200m needs to be found for the teachers.

You'd swear people really do believe their is a money tree somewhere ready for harvest.

I could understand the pay claims somewhat if the country's coffers were bursting at the seams but that is far from the reality.

They should teach kids in school about the recession that crippled this country in 2008.

All seems to be forgotten.

Fann Linn

salonfire wrote: »

Exactly. That set the precedent and should not have happened. The Government should have stood firm against the Gardai.

Now the floodgates are opened, it will be a smash and grab by various public sector unions. Another 200m needs to be found for the teachers.

You'd swear people really do believe their is a money tree somewhere ready for harvest.

I could understand the pay claims somewhat if the country's coffers were bursting at the seams but that is far from the reality.

That's the point I've been making. The govt set the precedent and then expect others to believe them.

Wheeliebin30

Fann Linn wrote: »

I hope ye don't mean FG because Hildegard didn't sound too convincing last night.

No just people who can make sensible decisions.

Who do you think should be in power?

road_high

salonfire wrote: »

Exactly. That set the precedent and should not have happened. The Government should have stood firm against the Gardai.

Now the floodgates are opened, it will be a smash and grab by various public sector unions. Another 200m needs to be found for the teachers.

You'd swear people really do believe their is a money tree somewhere ready for harvest.

I could understand the pay claims somewhat if the country's coffers were bursting at the seams but that is far from the reality.

As you say I’m stunned reading the comments here. Like a small state just finds another 300 million euros here or there!!
It’s a pity the IMF ever left, i’d have gladly let them run the nations finances as a responsible bank would. They'll be back soon enough anyhow if this carry on goes on much longer.

alexmalalex

Like it or not, history seems to be repeating itself. Prices are rising and the country is going to lose competitiveness.

I don't know how much nurses are paid, but they deserve more, given the increasing complexity of the job they perform, and the fact that they work extremely hard.

road_high

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

They should teach kids in school about the recession that crippled this country in 2008.

All seems to be forgotten.

The adults that supposedly went through it as well. It really was a hell time. I lost my job like thousands of others, I really don’t want to go through all that again.
I want the country’s finances properly and responsibly managed. It appears I’m asking too much to expect that

gctest50

salonfire wrote: »

..............

I could understand the pay claims somewhat if the country's coffers were bursting at the seams but that is far from the reality.

There are people who just want the place back in the misery of the recession

Varta

road_high wrote: »

Why is our nurse to population ratio the third highest in Europe? Where are all these nurses?

When they take a promotion they become management but are still classified as nurses. It's called massaging the figures.