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Green Bay Packers Thread

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Mike McCarthy's time has to be up, there's no debate about it anymore. He is dated as hell (remember when he was probably the best playcaller in the league bar probably Sean Payton? Feels like a lifetime ago), he is far too conservative and has been getting more and moreso as each year passes, he seems to have lost the locker room, and he and Rodgers are apparently on the outs - and only one person is winning that dispute. I would even go so far as to say that at this stage, he (McCarthy) is a liability who costs us a lot more than he benefiting us.

    I also don't see us doing much this season, which kind of sucks. But we have a whole lot to be excited about.

    - I yammered on about Aaron Jones before the season, and the last two games have been why. The guy is an absolute star in the making, and I . Still possibly a bit 'thin at the hips' but Jamaal Williams is a very solid guy to rotate in for him, probably enough to be a 400+ yard back for the next few years... Jones has consistent 1,000 yard season on under 250 carry potential though. I also noticed on or two great pass blocks which were nice to see in terms of using him on 3rd downs etc, and I had thought he was a pure runner... but those catches, especially the TD, were excellent.

    - The three WRs we took are paying off. Moore is only on 1 catch for 10 yards granted, but St. Brown is really showing the potential to be a seriously dangerous threat for a long time once he gets the basics down, and MVS who looked like he would take years to develop if he even ever did is on 24 catches in 10 games (23 in the last 7) for 400+ yards. Moore might just be suffering from congestion at the spot which will probably clear with Cobb and at least one of Geronimo Allison or Trevor Davis going this offseason. But even if Moore never catches another pass again and the other two develop, that would be amazing value for a 4th, 5th and 6th rounder.

    - DB is full of inexperience and question marks, but I really like our CB corps moving forward. King's injuries are becoming a pretty big concern but he has looked pretty class on the field this year, Jaire is looking like a legit 'cornerstone' player (along with Kenny Clark and Martinez, giving us one at all three levels), Josh Jackson has flashed at times... and I forgot we even had Breeland. Some of the unknowns have shown up in spurts too, but we do need to get a rangy FS with Dix gone (I think Josh Jones could do very well at SS beside one, as he did early last year).

    - Hats off to Frackrell, after being a bit of a joke for his first few seasons. He is far, far from a complete player and I don't want him as a starter next year, but if we have two proper OLBs and Frackrell able to rotate in for them for tiredness/injury/fatigue, that's pretty exciting. This is a key example of how Capers had no interests in playing to players' strengths and instead just putting square pegs in round holes (Frackrell is OK in coverage, terrible against the run usually, and cannot power rush etc past players... but he's got a good step, burst, and CMIII-like closing speed. He gets sacks and contributes very little else... so let him focus on getting sacks). He's now on 8 sacks in the last 7 games after getting 5 in 29 under Capers.

    - Our OLB situation needs addressing, quite badly. This is a theme of our defense which I kind of "like" (for a lack of a better word) - our weaknesses our obvious and addressable: OLB and S on defense, OL depth on offense. Perry has been playing injured and poorly at that with just one sack while CMIII is on 3 I believe... yet despite that we are top of the league for sacks. I reckon we'll see more emphasis on guys who can cover and defend the run/set the edge over guys looking for 12+ sacks each year, as Pettine loves to create pressure from all over and not just his OLBs (who need to be versatile to help confuse defenses... all those false starts last night were not a coincidence). With a rangy safety and let's say a rookie/FA stud at at least one of the OLB spots, I think this defense could be very effective. But the run defense 100% has to improve, a lot... statistically we are 8th worst for yards allowed per game and 12th worst for yards per attempt, and maybe I've just missed the games we did better at, but it's been very noticeable when I have seen us play.

    - Injuries are catching up, the defense crumbled late due to them and being on the field so long but it was the offense that cost us that game. We forced 4-5 3-and-outs in a row and yet nothing came of it, the game should have been well out of reach before the halt.

    - Also, JK Scott's punting continues to impress... I've been watching since 2002 and don't recall us ever having a punter land in-and-around the 10 yard line so often. With us having got good at 3-and-outs (and 3rd downs, where we are top 10 and only just behind the top 3-4... WTF!?!?!?!?) that's a massive bonus to have, and is something the offense should be taking a lot more advantage of than they have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,830 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Genuinely not being a smartarse here, but for the last however many years ye have been saying that the problem is capers. And I don't mean he was one issue, he WAS the issue, everything else was at worst a fixable issue.

    From outside, to be honest, ye look like the bears under Fox, with a better quarterback. Some dodgy drafting with an overly conservative past his prime coach. But Rodgers looks like a guy who couldn't give a ****. Yesterday's loss is at least partly on him but he looks like he's given up on McCarthy to me.

    Anyway my point is, these aren't problems just to do with this year, they're long in the making. It wasn't just capers, and it never was. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's my impression looking in from outside


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Genuinely not being a smartarse here, but for the last however many years ye have been saying that the problem is capers. And I don't mean he was one issue, he WAS the issue, everything else was at worst a fixable issue.

    From outside, to be honest, ye look like the bears under Fox, with a better quarterback. Some dodgy drafting with an overly conservative past his prime coach. But Rodgers looks like a guy who couldn't give a ****. Yesterday's loss is at least partly on him but he looks like he's given up on McCarthy to me.

    Anyway my point is, these aren't problems just to do with this year, they're long in the making. It wasn't just capers, and it never was. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's my impression looking in from outside

    I would agree, at the time the defence was so historically terrible that the rest could hide behind that. not anymore


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Packers chances of making the playoffs with a loss in week 12 is under 20%.

    But a win means that jumps to 45%.

    It's the hope that kills etc. etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭peejay1986


    Excruciating to watch. Another pathetic second half showing. Yes Rodgers should've found Adams on our last drive, yes we were unfortunate to lose a cheap timeout and yes we're crippled with injuries, but it's just not good enough anymore. Change is so badly needed and can't come quick enough.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    peejay1986 wrote: »
    Excruciating to watch. Another pathetic second half showing. Yes Rodgers should've found Adams on our last drive, yes we were unfortunate to lose a cheap timeout and yes we're crippled with injuries, but it's just not good enough anymore. Change is so badly needed and can't come quick enough.
    Coach to choose to move on at end of season. I'd say he will be told he's getting the sack but allowed to walk away to save face


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭peejay1986


    Coach to choose to move on at end of season. I'd say he will be told he's getting the sack but allowed to walk away to save face

    At this stage, I don't care how he leaves. It's crazy how stale he has been. Not 100% who is the answer but I'd lean towards one of the younger crop of offense-fochsed coaches. Might as well play to our strengths.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭cosatron


    peejay1986 wrote: »
    At this stage, I don't care how he leaves. It's crazy how stale he has been. Not 100% who is the answer but I'd lean towards one of the younger crop of offense-fochsed coaches. Might as well play to our strengths.

    hopefully we will go for a young and up and coming offensive mind to get Rodgers motoring again, the days of taking a 5 to 7 step drop and hoping your wr beat their man on vertical route for large chuck play are well and truly gone. defences are too fast for that now and your linemen need to be super human to sustain that type of football. the roster aswell need a huge make over again, we need linemen, passrushers, inside linebackers, free safety, and a slot receiver.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    I really hope he is gone before the next game but figure we'll be officially out of Tre playoffs before anything is announced, the players just don't want to even play for him anymore.

    Not so sure on overhauling the roster though. I think one of st. Brown or MVS could make the slot position (personally I'm very impressed with both) or ILB where Jake Ryan back will be huge against the run and where burks was always going to take a year or tuition - plus Martinez is an absolute star. FS and OLB definitely yes) though we're one of the top teams in the league for sacks and while two dimensional and not starting quality, Frackrell will be huge for pressure if he keeps up as is). Some depth at oline or a long term Bulaga replacement sure but our line has been good this year, both in pass protection and run blocking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I really hope he is gone before the next game but figure we'll be officially out of Tre playoffs before anything is announced, the players just don't want to even play for him anymore.

    Not so sure on overhauling the roster though. I think one of st. Brown or MVS could make the slot position (personally I'm very impressed with both) or ILB where Jake Ryan back will be huge against the run and where burks was always going to take a year or tuition - plus Martinez is an absolute star. FS and OLB definitely yes) though we're one of the top teams in the league for sacks and while two dimensional and not starting quality, Frackrell will be huge for pressure if he keeps up as is). Some depth at oline or a long term Bulaga replacement sure but our line has been good this year, both in pass protection and run blocking.

    our run blocking has been a good surprise for me


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Rogers is not interested.

    Our guys don’t make the big catches

    We have no pass rush generally speaking

    The amount of ‘whiffs’ and arm ‘tackles’ by the D was concerning.

    We got thumped down the middle in the second half.

    We need a new face at head coach-thanks Mike but time to move on.

    Special teams coach ,thanks, clear your locker.

    The NFC North is not going to be a stroll for some time to come given the talent there.Packers need to be aware of this otherwise it’s a stretch in the wilderness that’s facing the franchise.


    Need firm and positive moves in the off season to regain our position as a team which always makes the playoffs.

    Starting tomorrow.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rogers is not interested.

    Rodgers is being paid a huge amount of money to be interested.

    If he isn't, that's on him. If the organisation that pays him gazillions chooses Condoleezza Rice as head coach, he has to grin and bear it and do as well as he can.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Rodgers is being paid a huge amount of money to be interested.

    If he isn't, that's on him. If the organisation that pays him gazillions chooses Condoleezza Rice as head coach, he has to grin and bear it and do as well as he can.

    how often can a person be interested in a 3 yard wr screen dump off


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Christ this is a dull excruciating game...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,765 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Keep losing and get better draft pick. Is that how it works?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Yup but no point as tank bowls have been running for weeks. We are just bad


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Christ this is a dull excruciating game...

    That's literally GB all year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭Jofspring


    Curtains for McCarthy now you would think


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭cosatron


    That was absolutely horrible. I hope his gone on Monday morning and Rodgers needs a good kick up the arse


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭Blut2


    That was painful to watch. McCarthy has to be gone tomorrow morning, or at least soon.

    I'd be in favour of them putting in Kizer and any other younger players that are old enough to blood now too. Might as well keep some miles off of Rodgers clock, and hopefully lose the last 4 games, now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭pedatron


    Gone. Just got the sack.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Just in to say that. Announced on CBS there. Thank God.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Delighted


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    That’s a tough job for anybody to take on it’s a fairly average roster overall with some obvious exceptions. Might as well tank now. Rodgers hasn’t looked right all season with that knee an extended break might do him good although he has apparently already ruled that out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Thank you Mike, for everything, good luck in the future.

    That said, right decision made , let's move on.

    JHC !!! guy drops a pick straight into his chest... Ok no panic brings up

    3/21. Surely we can stop that with game on the line..........nooooo


    Terrible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Crosby didn't look too happy with his holder either


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Crosby missed 5 kicks v Detroit and a winner v Vikings. He might want to save the unhappy looks for a mirror.

    End of an era. McCarthy seemed like a nice man, generally was happy with all he did up to THAT collapse against the Seahawks in January '15, he seemed to get increasingly bewildered since. I wonder did something change that day, confidence in the players, self belief...anyway hope he does well wherever he goes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Any thoughts on who might be in the running for the job? The search must be on already.

    The best post I've seen on reddit about it so far offered:

    "Most likely candidate: Eric Bieniemy, Offensive Coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs (also my prediction)

    Most interesting college candidate: Chris Petersen, Head Coach for the Washington Huskies

    Most overrated candidate: Lincoln Riley, Head Coach for the Oklahoma Sooners

    Most underrated candidate: Bruce Arians, former Head Coach of the Arizona Cardinals"


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭cosatron


    i shamelessly stole this from packersforum.com a good piece on available coaches from a fairly good poster on that forum,

    This is way more information than anyone needs on my opinions re: coaches, but I want to think out loud.

    Guys I Don't Want:
    •Josh McDaniels, OC, NE: I understand the arguments in his favor: he's run a consistently great offense with a ton of creativity for a long time and he's had the experience of being a HC once already. However, his tenure in Denver was full of drama and then he was a total weasel this last offseason with IND. Plus the BB coaching tree is pretty much fruitless. Pass.
    •Jim Harbaugh, HC, Michigan: I know he brings some great qualities as a head coach, but he also seems to be pretty unstable.
    •Matt LaFleur, OC, TEN: He may prove in time to be a great offensive mind, but his first go at the helm hasn't been very impressive.
    •College Only Coaches: I'm certainly not anti college experience, but I don't want any of the guys who have zero NFL background (i.e. Riley, Campbell, Kingsbury, Rhule, Stoops, etc.).
    •David Shaw, HC, Stanford: Shaw is a college coach with a lot of NFL experience, but he's way too conservative for me-- I think he would have a lot of the same weaknesses as MM.
    •Nick Saban, HC, Alabama: If you take away the recruiting advantage, I'm not sold that Saban would be a difference making HC and I don't know how pro's would react to his style.
    •Defensive Coordinators: The reality of the NFL game is that it's skewed to the offense. It's hard to consistently field a great defense year over year. If my HC is going to bring a particular skill set, I think the maximum impact should ideally be on offense or as a well-connected, global team leader. This would rule out some guys like Kris Richard, George Edwards, Vic Fangio, Brian Flores, etc. I'd also pass on the defensive retreads (Del Rio, Schwartz, Bradley, Pagano).
    •Rams Assistants: Zac Taylor and Shane Waldron are getting a lot of love, and it's easy to understand why, but I'm skeptical. McVay has completely handed over the defense and special teams to his respective coordinators. He is, essentially, a glorified OC. So I don't know that I trust his assistants because I am unsure of how much they actually have to do with that offense.
    Outside the Box:
    •Bruce Arians, Former HC, ARI: Rumor has him wanting back in the game. I'm sure he's not thinking of a long stint, so he might be a good option to team up with Rodgers for the back nine of his career. I think he would stand as great a chance as anyone getting AR back on track. Frankly, I would love the heck out of this.

    •Dave Toub, ST/AHC, KC: Special teams coaches rarely get consideration for HC jobs, but Toub has been consistently excellent for a long time and deserves a look. He added the Assistant Head Coach title this year. He's spent so much time on great coaching staffs that I would trust him to be able to put together a great OC/DC tandem.
    Offensive Coordinators I Like:
    •Eric Bieniemy, KC: The RB coaching path has proved successful for the LAC offense-- why not in GB? Reid's coaching tree is excellent and Bieniemy seems ready. Perhaps a guy without the QB coach background doesn't butt heads with Rodgers as much?
    •John DeFilippo, MIN: While the Vikings offense hasn't been great overall, he's gotten a ton out of their best talent (Cousins and the WR duo).
    •Dan Campbell, NO: Technically not an OC (AHC/TE), but he has a little HC experience and has been around a stellar offense.
    Unrealistic:
    •John Harbaugh, HC, BAL: He would be my top choice, but I don't think he gets fired at this point.

    So my realistic top 5:
    1.B. Arians
    2.E. Bieniemy
    3.D. Toub
    4.J. DeFilippo
    5.D. Campbell


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,033 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Blut2 wrote: »
    "Most likely candidate: Eric Bieniemy, Offensive Coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs (also my prediction)

    For such an attractive and prestigious job would you not want/expect someone with a bit more experience? He is not even through his first season as an OC and though the Chiefs are doing great it is an offense that was mostly already set up for him when he took the job, has arguably the most talented group in 'skilled positions', and he doesn't even play call.


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