Dublin routes news and general chat

Tenger · 10-08-2017 11:12pm

scooby77 wrote: »

Was expecting announcement of Aer Lingus direct to Vegas-what became of that plan anyone know?

That was never on the cards. The whole rumour ran amok due to the CEO answering a question from an Indo journo about a possible Vegas route in an interview last year.

Idbatterim · 11-08-2017 3:14pm

Was expecting announcement of Aer Lingus direct to Vegas-what became of that plan anyone know?

norwegian had high load factors on this route from london, copenhagen, oslo etc. Hopefully they will launch the route from Dublin. A friend of mine says they are looking to register 3 x 787 on Irish AOC...

Aer Lingus being so conservative and IAG wanting to feed us through london etc instead of offering more direct flights from dublin. I hope norwegian also notice this and start launching new routes! hopefully starting with vegas!

Jamie2k9 · 11-08-2017 3:20pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

norwegian had high load factors on this route from london, copenhagen, oslo etc. Hopefully they will launch the route from Dublin. A friend of mine says they are looking to register 3 x 787 on Irish AOC...

Aer Lingus being so conservative and IAG wanting to feed us through london etc instead of offering more direct flights from dublin. I hope norwegian also notice this and start launching new routes! hopefully starting with vegas!

They already had the 787's on the register but had to remove them, they might just put them back on.

Was expecting announcement of Aer Lingus direct to Vegas-what became of that plan anyone know?

EI want high yield passengers, Vegas doesn't deliver that.

JCX BXC · 11-08-2017 3:24pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

EI want high yield passengers, Vegas doesn't deliver that.

You can only say it so many times Jamie, I just don't think OP wants to accept that.

Van.Bosch · 11-08-2017 3:28pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

norwegian had high load factors on this route from london, copenhagen, oslo etc. Hopefully they will launch the route from Dublin. A friend of mine says they are looking to register 3 x 787 on Irish AOC...

Aer Lingus being so conservative and IAG wanting to feed us through london etc instead of offering more direct flights from dublin. I hope norwegian also notice this and start launching new routes! hopefully starting with vegas!

Aer Lingus conservative? Possibly

IAG wanting to feed pax through London? I doubt it, they have enough demand for Vegas as is.

LXFlyer · 11-08-2017 3:32pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

norwegian had high load factors on this route from london, copenhagen, oslo etc. Hopefully they will launch the route from Dublin. A friend of mine says they are looking to register 3 x 787 on Irish AOC...

Aer Lingus being so conservative and IAG wanting to feed us through london etc instead of offering more direct flights from dublin. I hope norwegian also notice this and start launching new routes! hopefully starting with vegas!

With respect just because you want a route to Vegas doesn't mean EI are conservative - they have far more industry info than you are I and are in a far better position to decide how lucrative it might be.

It's almost an obsession reading your posts here - that's not how these decisions are made thankfully.

goingnowhere · 11-08-2017 5:03pm

4 new A330, 4 second hand 757's and an order for 7 A321NEOLR is hardly conservative from Aer Lingus thats massive growth over a short period for a small operator operating basically in a single market.

Dublin London is the busiest air route possibly in the world at this point, huge demand and IAG don't want you going to AMS, FRA or CDG.

There is also now a flow of passengers from EI to BA and BA to EI, where there is cross selling of tickets, so you go out EI and back BA on a single ticket

Noxegon · 11-08-2017 7:12pm

Really wish they'd bring back the daytime JFK. I don't like having to go via LHR to avoid the night flight.

murphaph · 11-08-2017 9:33pm

Any ideas how Brexit (assuming the UK crashed out of open skies) could affect DUB?

I (possibly incorrectly) assume the old bilateral agreements between Ireland and the UK could be used to allow DUB - UK flights to continue?

Van.Bosch · 11-08-2017 9:39pm

murphaph wrote: »

Any ideas how Brexit (assuming the UK crashed out of open skies) could affect DUB?

I (possibly incorrectly) assume the old bilateral agreements between Ireland and the UK could be used to allow DUB - UK flights to continue?

Ireland can't negotiate with the UK, all deals have to be UK-EU.

Locker10a · 11-08-2017 10:09pm

Noxegon wrote: »

Really wish they'd bring back the daytime JFK. I don't like having to go via LHR to avoid the night flight.

Hopefully when EI get their new A321LR this will be resumed

IE 222 · 12-08-2017 12:13am

Are the seven A321 solely for TATL services or will they be used on European routes as well.

Is there any scope on configuration yet. Will they all be the same or could some have reduced business class to increase loads on some bucket and spade routes plus releasing a A320 for new/extra services.

How does EI business preform. Quick calculations show they offer over 300 business seats (oneway) a day across all routes, DUB - JFK, BOS, ORD 60 each. Is there much uptake on business from Shannon or is there more potential for extra economy.

Pat Dunne · 12-08-2017 12:25am

john boye wrote: »

Another indo article that reads just like an EI press release...

First rule of journalism, "copy and paste"!
Second rule of journnalism, "never let the facts get in the way of a good story"!

JCX BXC · 12-08-2017 1:18am

IE 222 wrote: »

Is there much uptake on business from Shannon or is there more potential for extra economy.

I understand that Business performs very well from SNN, and is what maintains the service. When EI hired in OMNI for 12 weeks they fit in a business class especially for the SNN-BOS service.

IE 222 · 12-08-2017 2:25am

JCX BXC wrote: »

I understand that Business performs very well from SNN, and is what maintains the service. When EI hired in OMNI for 12 weeks they fit in a business class especially for the SNN-BOS service.

I'm very surprised to hear that. I wouldn't of thought Shannon would attract much business class customers.

Irishweather · 12-08-2017 3:07am

Noxegon wrote: »

Really wish they'd bring back the daytime JFK. I don't like having to go via LHR to avoid the night flight.

+1. The Dublin flight was the latest dayflight to Europe at 12pm. Of course there is Iceland but that's not really Europe is it?

IE 222 · 12-08-2017 11:24am

Irishweather wrote: »

+1. The Dublin flight was the latest dayflight to Europe at 12pm. Of course there is Iceland but that's not really Europe is it?

Personally i cant see IE sending the whole 7 A321 state side within 2 hours or so of each other. My guess is they would stagger their departures throughout the day to allow for Euro services resulting in some earlier and later US flights.

JCX BXC · 12-08-2017 7:36pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Personally i cant see IE sending the whole 7 A321 state side within 2 hours or so of each other. My guess is they would stagger their departures throughout the day to allow for Euro services resulting in some earlier and later US flights.

First, ask yourself what do they do with the 5 757's they will be replacing.

L1011 · 12-08-2017 7:37pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

First, ask yourself what do they do with the 5 757's they will be replacing.

4, none of which they own and all of which are on short term contracts. They'll go completely

JCX BXC · 12-08-2017 7:43pm

L1011 wrote: »

4, none of which they own and all of which are on short term contracts. They'll go completely

Apologies, 4, thought it was 5 for some reason.

I never implied that they own them, I don't understand your point, are you saying they'll be gone before the A321's arrive or are you just restating my point,

Fattes · 12-08-2017 8:03pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

First, ask yourself what do they do with the 5 757's they will be replacing.

They will go back to ASL 3 & 1 to Omni (I think) who own and operate the flights on contract for EI

IE 222 · 12-08-2017 8:06pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

First, ask yourself what do they do with the 5 757's they will be replacing.

Well it's only 4 isn't it. They will obviously replace these but many of the DUB 757 routes have and are been upgraded to A330 now so my guess would be in 2 years time the 757 routes other than Shannon or Hartford might not cope with A321.

Also I guess the 757s will stay until the final 4 arrive meaning the first 3 will be for expansion.

JCX BXC · 12-08-2017 8:06pm

Fattes wrote: »

They will go back to ASL 3 & 1 to Omni (I think) who own and operate the flights on contract for EI

Again, did not dispute this, however the plan is for the A321's LR to replace the 757's being used by EI.

L1011 · 12-08-2017 8:06pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Apologies, 4, thought it was 5 for some reason.

I never implied that they own them, I don't understand your point, are you saying they'll be gone before the A321's arrive or are you just restating my point,

They will go as the 321s arrive. Your point was asking what they'll do with them post 321. Nothing, as they won't have them

JCX BXC · 12-08-2017 8:07pm

L1011 wrote: »

They will go as the 321s arrive. Your point was asking what they'll do with them post 321. Nothing, as they won't have them

No, my point was what they do with the 757's now.

L1011 · 12-08-2017 8:07pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

No, my point was what they do with the 757's now.

You didn't make that even vaguely clear

JCX BXC · 12-08-2017 8:12pm

L1011 wrote: »

You didn't make that even vaguely clear

I thought I did, obviously not.

"First, ask yourself what do they do (present tense)* with the 5 (4)* 757's they (the A321's)* will be replacing."

My point was that currently the 757's have no issues leaving during normal operating hours currently, and that I wasn't sure 3 more would make a difference. Apologies if this was unclear.

john boye · 12-08-2017 8:42pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Personally i cant see IE sending the whole 7 A321 state side within 2 hours or so of each other. My guess is they would stagger their departures throughout the day to allow for Euro services resulting in some earlier and later US flights.

Keep in mind that the A321LRs will have a business class section which will take away much of the extra lift that the current A321s offer so I can't really see them on the SH network unless they were to sell biz seats which seems very unlikely. Will be interesting to see what eventually replaces the existing A321s, hard to see them ordering brand new A321NEOs.

IE 222 · 12-08-2017 9:55pm

john boye wrote: »

Keep in mind that the A321LRs will have a business class section which will take away much of the extra lift that the current A321s offer so I can't really see them on the SH network unless they were to sell biz seats which seems very unlikely. Will be interesting to see what eventually replaces the existing A321s, hard to see them ordering brand new A321NEOs.

Yeah I know they'll have business included but that's why I was wondering would they look at reducing it slightly on some to keep craft more flexible for some Spanish summer routes. I know the A330 are larger but they do sell business seats on these don't they. It would seem wasteful having 7 frames lying around 6 or 8 hours of the day.

Locker10a · 12-08-2017 10:06pm

IE 222 wrote: »

john boye wrote: »

Keep in mind that the A321LRs will have a business class section which will take away much of the extra lift that the current A321s offer so I can't really see them on the SH network unless they were to sell biz seats which seems very unlikely. Will be interesting to see what eventually replaces the existing A321s, hard to see them ordering brand new A321NEOs.

Yeah I know they'll have business included but that's why I was wondering would they look at reducing it slightly on some to keep craft more flexible for some Spanish summer routes. I know the A330 are larger but they do sell business seats on these don't they. It would seem wasteful having 7 frames lying around 6 or 8 hours of the day.

The issue is the new A321LRs will have the same capacity or thereabouts as the current A320s so while they may use a couple of them on shorthaul routes there's nothing much to be gained above A320 capacity. The only thing that you're really doing is confusing the shorthaul product be introducing a mix of business class seats scattered here and there on certain flights etc

IE 222 · 12-08-2017 10:17pm

Locker10a wrote: »

The issue is the new A321LRs will have the same capacity or thereabouts as the current A320s so while they may use a couple of them on shorthaul routes there's nothing much to be gained above A320 capacity. The only thing that you're really doing is confusing the shorthaul product be introducing a mix of business class seats scattered here and there on certain flights etc

Airbus suggest 190 economy and 16 business
If possible I'd look at 208 economy 10 business on 3 or 4 of them. Obviously these number have yet to be agreed on. A320 is 172 I think.

john boye · 12-08-2017 10:36pm

Airbus spec that I've seen is 185 in a 2-class config so not much of an increase and about 20 less than the current 321s. They wouldn't all be hanging around all day anyway; 2 would be based in Shannon and one would leave early on the early JFK (if that returns). Also I'm not sure there's much wiggle room to work the sun routes anyway. The Bradley and Washington routes leave approx 1230 and 1430; the early Faro and Malaga runs don't return until 1400-1430 approx. And they're largely (or completely, on the Malaga route) operated by the larger A330 anyway.

Locker10a · 12-08-2017 11:14pm

john boye wrote: »

Airbus spec that I've seen is 185 in a 2-class config so not much of an increase and about 20 less than the current 321s. They wouldn't all be hanging around all day anyway; 2 would be based in Shannon and one would leave early on the early JFK (if that returns). Also I'm not sure there's much wiggle room to work the sun routes anyway. The Bradley and Washington routes leave approx 1230 and 1430; the early Faro and Malaga runs don't return until 1400-1430 approx. And they're largely (or completely, on the Malaga route) operated by the larger A330 anyway.

Yeah they are planned to be 186 seater aircraft, obviously including business class so not much above the current A320 which is 174Y. Personally I think Aer Lingus will use the additional frames to do extra early morning New York or Boston flights perhaps. Who knows maybe we'll see some routes from Shannon, Cork or even Belfast. Equally we might just see these aircraft being put on early morning flights between London or Brussels or Düsseldorf. And sold at a320 capacity, with upgrades being offered for a fee or to AerClub members with status.

Jamie2k9 · 13-08-2017 7:02pm

Indo have article about China service:

China's Hainan Airlines is close to agreeing a direct scheduled flight from Dublin to Beijing for the upcoming winter season, according to a number of sources.

Discussions have been under way for some time between the airline and Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) and the airline is close to finalising a schedule for the flights, the Sunday Independent has learned. The flight will operate on alternate days to Dublin and Edinburgh in Scotland and this has added complexity to the scheduling and slot negotiations, it is understood. Hainan Airlines is China's fourth-largest carrier and is owned by the huge HNA conglomerate, which also owns Dublin-based aircraft leasing firm Avolon.

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/hainan-airlines-close-to-finalising-scheduling-on-beijingdublin-flights-36026037.html

IE 222 · 13-08-2017 7:53pm

john boye wrote: »

Airbus spec that I've seen is 185 in a 2-class config so not much of an increase and about 20 less than the current 321s. They wouldn't all be hanging around all day anyway; 2 would be based in Shannon and one would leave early on the early JFK (if that returns). Also I'm not sure there's much wiggle room to work the sun routes anyway. The Bradley and Washington routes leave approx 1230 and 1430; the early Faro and Malaga runs don't return until 1400-1430 approx. And they're largely (or completely, on the Malaga route) operated by the larger A330 anyway.

I've read a few different articles that seems to suggest 206 typical seating in 2 class formation.

I don't mean literally hanging around all day but they spend 6 to 7 hours on the ground. Even the DUB - JFK & BOS flights stay on the ground state side for up 5hrs before returning.

JCX BXC · 13-08-2017 7:57pm

In terms of expansion with the A321, I personally can't see any expansion outside Dublin, they're really only adding 3 frames to the fleet (as the 4 757's will be gone). They'll probably want all expansion there.

Will the A321LR on order be able to reach ORD with a reasonable load does anyone know?

john boye · 13-08-2017 8:29pm

IE 222 wrote: »

john boye wrote: »

Airbus spec that I've seen is 185 in a 2-class config so not much of an increase and about 20 less than the current 321s. They wouldn't all be hanging around all day anyway; 2 would be based in Shannon and one would leave early on the early JFK (if that returns). Also I'm not sure there's much wiggle room to work the sun routes anyway. The Bradley and Washington routes leave approx 1230 and 1430; the early Faro and Malaga runs don't return until 1400-1430 approx. And they're largely (or completely, on the Malaga route) operated by the larger A330 anyway.

I've read a few different articles that seems to suggest 206 typical seating in 2 class formation.

I don't mean literally hanging around all day but they spend 6 to 7 hours on the ground. Even the DUB - JFK & BOS flights stay on the ground state side for up 5hrs before returning.

It was stated when the order was announced that the EI ones would have 186 seats. In any case, the B757s have 177 seats and the 321LR s would be unlikely to have too many more than that.

Marcusm · 13-08-2017 8:38pm

IE 222 wrote: »

I've read a few different articles that seems to suggest 206 typical seating in 2 class formation.

I don't mean literally hanging around all day but they spend 6 to 7 hours on the ground. Even the DUB - JFK & BOS flights stay on the ground state side for up 5hrs before returning.

I wonder would EI consider an add on domestic sector to another north Easter airport, day Pittsburgh, to use up the extra time. Clearly this would be more complex for a crewing perspective but given the frequency of EI flights to NYC (ie JFK and EWR), perhaps it could be worked into the crew schedule similar to how BA do in the Caribbean and elsewhere. Maybe not the obvious solution for a small airframe, I guess.

IE 222 · 13-08-2017 8:50pm

john boye wrote: »

It was stated when the order was announced that the EI ones would have 186 seats. In any case, the B757s have 177 seats and the 321LR s would be unlikely to have too many more than that.

If that the configuration they gone for then fair enough. I wasn't aware they've chosen that but the potential is there for 206 seating.

L1011 · 13-08-2017 9:00pm

Marcusm wrote: »

I wonder would EI consider an add on domestic sector to another north Easter airport, day Pittsburgh, to use up the extra time. Clearly this would be more complex for a crewing perspective but given the frequency of EI flights to NYC (ie JFK and EWR), perhaps it could be worked into the crew schedule similar to how BA do in the Caribbean and elsewhere. Maybe not the obvious solution for a small airframe, I guess.

Absolutely impossible to get sixth freedom rights from the US.

IE 222 · 13-08-2017 9:01pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

In terms of expansion with the A321, I personally can't see any expansion outside Dublin, they're really only adding 3 frames to the fleet (as the 4 757's will be gone). They'll probably want all expansion there.

Will the A321LR on order be able to reach ORD with a reasonable load does anyone know?

And given the suggestions of expanding frequency on current routes there's not much room for expanding destinations. They seem to be leaving themselves short unless more A330s are due to come in as well. I'm sure Miami will be up to a daily service in 2 years time.

IE 222 · 13-08-2017 9:03pm

Marcusm wrote: »

I wonder would EI consider an add on domestic sector to another north Easter airport, day Pittsburgh, to use up the extra time. Clearly this would be more complex for a crewing perspective but given the frequency of EI flights to NYC (ie JFK and EWR), perhaps it could be worked into the crew schedule similar to how BA do in the Caribbean and elsewhere. Maybe not the obvious solution for a small airframe, I guess.

Would this not fall into 6th freedom rights.

Marcusm · 14-08-2017 1:23pm

L1011 wrote: »

Absolutely impossible to get sixth freedom rights from the US.

Wouldn't that be 8th freedom but in any event, I was omitting the right to fly passengers entirely within US.

L1011 · 14-08-2017 2:00pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Wouldn't that be 8th freedom but in any event, I was omitting the right to fly passengers entirely within US.

Unless the existing DUB->US leg is yielding very poorly, there's nothing to be gained by a tag.

CoisFharraige · 14-08-2017 3:21pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Indo have article about China service:

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/hainan-airlines-close-to-finalising-scheduling-on-beijingdublin-flights-36026037.html

Hainan were given a minimum-guarantee on seat purchases per-flight. Avolon and many other Dublin-based companies (mainly software developers who have PAs dealing with China) have quite a few people going over and back to China every day. It's a massive deal for the Chinese business people with regards to meeting everybody face-to-face and exchanging gifts. Hainan will definitely be carrying through with this route without a doubt.

JCX BXC · 15-08-2017 8:00pm

Why has it taken so long in that case? I've been hearing the same "imminent" for years.

JCX BXC · 29-08-2017 11:38am

http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-launches-dublin-s18-schedule-5-new-routes-to-marrakech-munich-naples-paphos-stuttgart/?market=ie

So, 5 new routes. Marrakech (2 wkly), Munich (2 daily), Naples (5 wkly), Paphos (2 wkly) & Stuttgart (daily)

At least the spat with charges they had last year with the DAA seems not to have affected this year's routes.

Interesting to see Munich most in my opinion, I understand this will be their first route to Munich, and I had not heard much talk of them applying for slots etc that I heard for Amsterdam and Frankfurt.

haro124 · 29-08-2017 12:39pm

And not to transavia ending their short lived service to Munich

VG31 · 29-08-2017 1:05pm

haro124 wrote: »

And not to transavia ending their short lived service to Munich

They are closing their base in Munich completely, it's not just the Dublin route.

JCX BXC · 29-08-2017 1:27pm

Munich on sale from the 29th of October? I don't remember this being announced for the winter season!

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