Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Randy Archer · 20-06-2020 12:47pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

elperello wrote: »

Lot's of decent people live in public housing. You never know when life might take a turn and you could end up on welfare.

Bull ! Besides, I simply won’t and can’t qualify for welfare , like most middle class people

Reputable Rog · 16-07-2020 1:45pm

Just when you when starting to have a little sympathy fir publicans,
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/VFI-Ban-the-sale-of-alcohol-to-curb-house-parties-cebe4ff9-4311-42b2-b709-38bd99b6d886-ds

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-publican-warns-keeping-pubs-closed-will-result-in-serious-societal-issues-and-a-spike-in-Covid-cases--54f8b0fb-1f9e-4816-bded-2d263847d388-ds

The Floyd p · 16-07-2020 1:48pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Just when you when starting to have a little sympathy fir publicans,
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/VFI-Ban-the-sale-of-alcohol-to-curb-house-parties-cebe4ff9-4311-42b2-b709-38bd99b6d886-ds

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-publican-warns-keeping-pubs-closed-will-result-in-serious-societal-issues-and-a-spike-in-Covid-cases--54f8b0fb-1f9e-4816-bded-2d263847d388-ds

It's so blatant that it's almost funny.

weldoninhio · 16-07-2020 1:48pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

First of all I predict that the distributors will find some reason to adsorb a lot of the price increase. So the publicans won't seen as much of the extra price as they'd like.

Can't say this too often but since the tax on alcohol itself hasn't gone up there will be no extra funds for the health services.

Any gain in VAT because of MUP will likely be matched by a loss in VAT elsewhere. This will factor into inflation figures which could trigger some costs in the budget or borrowing or something.

Off-licence consumption in Scotland has dropped by 3%
did the pubs sell more ?
did English supermarkets near the border sell more ?
did the amount of home brew increase ?

Minimum price is NOT acting as a deterrent to new drinkers.
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,increasing-alcohol-price-has-no-impact-on-under-18s-drinking-habits-nhs-stu_15000.htm

Off licence consumption dropped. How much did drug related deaths rise??

brightspark · 16-07-2020 3:57pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Just when you when starting to have a little sympathy fir publicans,
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/VFI-Ban-the-sale-of-alcohol-to-curb-house-parties-cebe4ff9-4311-42b2-b709-38bd99b6d886-ds

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-publican-warns-keeping-pubs-closed-will-result-in-serious-societal-issues-and-a-spike-in-Covid-cases--54f8b0fb-1f9e-4816-bded-2d263847d388-ds

We didn't close the off=licences at any stage, so they can't really be to blame for the current increase.

elperello · 20-07-2020 12:20pm

Prof. Joe Barry on with Sarah McInerney earlier with a new plan of attack to get MUP introduced.

Apparently it will help to reduce house parties during the Covid era.

He said it's wrong that people can buy beer for one euro a can and we should be paying £2 (yes two pounds is what he said) a pint.

Yellow_Fern · 20-07-2020 7:52pm

elperello wrote: »

Prof. Joe Barry on with Sarah McInerney earlier with a new plan of attack to get MUP introduced.

Apparently it will help to reduce house parties during the Covid era.

He said it's wrong that people can buy beer for one euro a can and we should be paying £2 (yes two pounds is what he said) a pint.

Mad. A bottle on Connemara Irish whiskey costs about 44 Eur. In Germany you can buy it for 25 Eur. While a cheap can of beer can cost 50 cent. Even cheap take aways serve cheap beer. While there are many bars serving alcohol all night and all day, yet people manage fine. No chaos

patrickbrophy18 · 20-07-2020 8:15pm

The glaringly obvious vested interests are at it again. They're loosing money and want the consumer to be punished for it. As for Joe Barry, his opinion (which is what that boils down to) should be taken with a pinch of salt.

So, to deter the few from house parties, we must punish the responsible?

I really think that some of the people dreaming up these restrictions on alcohol were social outcasts or relatives of chronic alcohol abusers and that they are taking their revenge boners out on the rest of society.

Spanish Eyes · 20-07-2020 8:27pm

Well MUP won't bother me, I drink Courvoisier Cognac occasionally and nice wine as much as I can lol!

Never liked beer except occasionally when abroad and it looked great with the drops on the outside of the glass when weather was roasting. I'd have the odd pint of Guinness in the Winter, gorgeous.

Everyone is different. I have no issue with anyone buying whatever they want at a price they can afford. This MUP thing is for the publicans, and is a kind of a back door to banning alcohol outside of pubs if they could get away with it!

Cheers everyone.

weldoninhio · 21-07-2020 8:31am

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The glaringly obvious vested interests are at it again. They're loosing money and want the consumer to be punished for it. As for Joe Barry, his opinion (which is what that boils down to) should be taken with a pinch of salt.

So, to deter the few from house parties, we must punish the responsible?

I really think that some of the people dreaming up these restrictions on alcohol were social outcasts or relatives of chronic alcohol abusers and that they are taking their revenge boners out on the rest of society.

Senator Black who was pushing this is an alkie. Obviously if she can’t control herself nobody can so we need these rules.

22-07-2020 5:48pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Senator Black who was pushing this is an alkie. Obviously if she can’t control herself nobody can so we need these rules.

Another, "I'm alright Jack".

Won't affect her so of course she's for it.

22-07-2020 5:49pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well MUP won't bother me, I drink Courvoisier Cognac occasionally and nice wine as much as I can lol!

As has been stated repeatedly on this thread, it will affect you because you can expect your Courvoisier to go up in price.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-07-2020 6:23pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

This MUP thing is for the publicans, and is a kind of a back door to banning alcohol outside of pubs if they could get away with it!

Cheers everyone.

Turkeys voting for Christmas

If MUP comes in expect the distributors to increase prices because shareholders like profits.

Only supermarkets with own brands sourced directly will get to keep the price increase.

MUP won't raise any extra excise duty to go to the Health Services.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2020 4:10pm

I see they got it through and shops must have alcohol seperate to the rest of the stores items for sale....

10-08-2020 4:11pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I see they got it through and shops must have alcohol seperate to the rest of the stores items for sale....

Which is completely unworkable for many many shops.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2020 10:14pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which is completely unworkable for many many shops.

I agree....

I'm more worried at how they manage to get these bills in and it's not even news... Seems we are only told what they want us to know and it seems crap in the US is more important....

Leroy42 · 10-08-2020 10:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is completely unworkable for many many shops.

You cannot make laws, or not make them, on the basis that it might be difficult for some people.

If it is the right thing to do (which of course is very questionable) then whether some shops will struggle is not really an issue.

Just like cigarette sales, smoking areas in pubs and drink driving laws, people will find a way to adapt to the new laws.

Atlantic Dawn · 10-08-2020 10:24pm

Will the shops have trained staff to mind shoppers kids outside these alcohol areas?

Leroy42 · 10-08-2020 10:31pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Will the shops have trained staff to mind shoppers kids outside these alcohol areas?

Why would they? Do pubs have trained staff to look after kids? Do other paces have trained staff to look after kids; dentist, doctor etc.

Kids are allowed into the alcohol sections, just not buy the product.

My name is URL · 10-08-2020 10:47pm

I'm just glad I live very close to the border

andekwarhola · 10-08-2020 11:22pm

Home entertaining isn't going away. No matter what stunts the publican lobby pull, they will have to address what an exorbitant cost they - and to be fair, the main culprits which are the handful of monopoly brewers here - charge.

When the traditional pubs open, it'll be interesting to see how many people have got used to staying at home in terms of convenience, choice and cost, even with MUP pricing which will still be far cheaper than paying through the nose for beer in pubs.

Quackster · 10-08-2020 11:43pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm just glad I live very close to the border

It'll be interesting to see what happens come January 1st as from then on you're technically limited to duty-free allowances and to cross the border with more than the applicable limits would constitute smuggling.

Capt'n Midnight · 10-08-2020 11:51pm

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm just glad I live very close to the border

Oh you sweet summer child.

This only works if both sides of the border implement similar schemes. It would be an example of cross border cooperation because both sides know exactly what would happen otherwise.

Potential-Monke · 11-08-2020 1:27am

Leroy42 wrote: »

You cannot make laws, or not make them, on the basis that it might be difficult for some people.

If it is the right thing to do (which of course is very questionable) then whether some shops will struggle is not really an issue.

Just like cigarette sales, smoking areas in pubs and drink driving laws, people will find a way to adapt to the new laws.

*cough*Legalise cannabis*cough*

Suckit · 11-08-2020 1:42am

Leroy42 wrote: »

You cannot make laws, or not make them, on the basis that it might be difficult for some people.

If it is the right thing to do (which of course is very questionable) then whether some shops will struggle is not really an issue.

Just like cigarette sales, smoking areas in pubs and drink driving laws, people will find a way to adapt to the new laws.

But isn't that kinda how most laws are made or broken?
When something (apart from murder or beating, rape, torture etc.) isn't deemed acceptable by some people, and if they make enough noise....
Cannabis will likely be legalised here before 2030, just a matter of figuring out who is going to profit from it and how to appoint said people. Nothing to do with the people who are against it at this stage.
Everything is harmful if abused.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-08-2020 3:03am

Suckit wrote: »

Everything is harmful if abused.

Especially power.

Fr Tod Umptious · 11-08-2020 8:38am

My local shop was refurbished last year and they moved the drinks section from close to where you queue up for the tills to down a special section at the back of the shop.

The also put huge, obvious, in your face neon sinage saying "Off License" on it.

You can't miss it.

But what I've noticed of my own shopping habits is that previously I'd find myself browsing the drinks section and picking up something on impulse when it was close to the tills, but now I only buy alcohol when I specifically plan on doing so.

Fr Tod Umptious · 11-08-2020 8:43am

This thread has always been about politicians looking after the pub trade, and doing their buddies in the pub trade a favour at the expense of you and I the casual off license customer.

Can someone explain how they are doing that after twice cancelling the planned reopening of pubs (and likely to do so again) and at the same time reducing the vat on booze ?

You'd think that if they were as much in the back pocket of publicans as people here make out, that they would have found a way to reopen the majority of pubs regardless of the COVID 19 trends ?

odyssey06 · 11-08-2020 8:47am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This thread has always been about politicians looking after the pub trade, and doing their buddies in the pub trade a favour at the expense of you and I the casual off license customer.
Can someone explain how they are doing that after twice cancelling the planned reopening of pubs (and likely to do so again) and at the same time reducing the vat on booze ?
You'd think that if they were as much in the back pocket of publicans as people here make out, that they would have found a way to reopen the majority of pubs regardless of the COVID 19 trends ?

It didn't get over the line just cos of those publican politicians.
There was also support from certain drinks retailers (indie off licences) and 'cover' for it from a public health angle.
It's a coalition.

And by contrast big covid-19 decisions are subject to intense coverage in the media.

11-08-2020 10:37am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My local shop was refurbished last year and they moved the drinks section from close to where you queue up for the tills to down a special section at the back of the shop.

The also put huge, obvious, in your face neon sinage saying "Off License" on it.

You can't miss it.

But what I've noticed of my own shopping habits is that previously I'd find myself browsing the drinks section and picking up something on impulse when it was close to the tills, but now I only buy alcohol when I specifically plan on doing so.

So because your local shop is alright, then its grand.

You should change your name to Fr "I'm alright" Jack.

Considering shops are already under pressure due to Covid-19, is it really prudent to make things more difficult for them by bringing in this pointless legislation.

Leroy42 · 11-08-2020 10:46am

Deleted User wrote: »

So because your local shop is alright, then its grand.

You should change your name to Fr "I'm alright" Jack.

Considering shops are already under pressure due to Covid-19, is it really prudent to make things more difficult for them by bringing in this pointless legislation.

Their point was that is was possible that that shop adjusted.

Again, just because something is hard or an inconvenience doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We hear this everytime new legislation is tried.

Smoking ban was going cause the destruction of the pub trade, Every tightening of the drink driving limit was the signal for the end of social life. Cigarettes behind the counter meant the end of small shops.

Humans are nothing if not creative, if there is money to be made people will find a way

ohnonotgmail · 11-08-2020 10:48am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Their point was that is was possible that that shop adjusted.

Again, just because something is hard or an inconvenience doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We hear this everytime new legislation is tried.

Smoking ban was going cause the destruction of the pub trade, Every tightening of the drink driving limit was the signal for the end of social life. Cigarettes behind the counter meant the end of small shops.

Humans are nothing if not creative, if there is money to be made people will find a way

that is fine if there is a point to what is being done.

amadangomor · 11-08-2020 10:57am

Potential-Monke wrote: »

*cough*Legalise cannabis*cough*

Watch that stoner's cough dude :pac:

Leroy42 · 11-08-2020 11:00am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is fine if there is a point to what is being done.

Totally agree, which I stated in my earlier post.

But the post I was responding to was waking the point that shops would struggle. Not that the law would be unwise.

odyssey06 · 11-08-2020 11:01am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Their point was that is was possible that that shop adjusted. Again, just because something is hard or an inconvenience doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We hear this everytime new legislation is tried.
Smoking ban was going cause the destruction of the pub trade, Every tightening of the drink driving limit was the signal for the end of social life. Cigarettes behind the counter meant the end of small shops.
Humans are nothing if not creative, if there is money to be made people will find a way

Yes it can be overplayed but there's a limit to how much costs you can load onto small businesses before they go under. And people wonder what happened their local X and they have to go to Tesco now for anything.
It can be very hard to say which straw broke the camel's back.

ohnonotgmail · 11-08-2020 11:01am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Totally agree, which I stated in my earlier post.

But the post I was responding to was waking the point that shops would struggle. Not that the law would be unwise.

shops will struggle. especially smaller ones. and all for no good reason.

11-08-2020 11:21am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Totally agree, which I stated in my earlier post.

But the post I was responding to was waking the point that shops would struggle. Not that the law would be unwise.

The example given which I replied to was a shop which underwent a refurbishment, something which presumeably they had been saving up for and had the funds to do it.

That won't be the case for most shops. This is an additional cost at a time when many are already struggling.

I also think the law is completely pointless and will achieve nothing whatsoever.

I'm off now to buy some alcohol, and even if I had to go down 2 flights of stairs to the basement where it's now being sold, I'd still be going to buy it.

elperello · 22-08-2020 2:56pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/fatal-flaw-in-minimum-alcohol-pricing-1.4335130

A letter in yesterday's Irish Times in which Sean Barrett of TCD outlines the case against MUP from an economic and taxation viewpoint.

Worth remembering that as a Senator he was the only member of the Oireachtas to raise his voice against MUP.

The rest of them swallowed it whole.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-08-2020 6:36pm

Last Saturday's Irish TImes had a front page ad saying "alcohol is too cheap". Whatever group is behind it is too cowardly to give their name, but no prizes for guessing :rolleyes:

This is the article Barrett was responding to:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/alcohol-selling-for-pocket-money-prices-says-lobby-group-1.4334312

“Throughout the Covid-19 crisis we have witnessed a significant shift in alcohol use, with hyper-competitive pricing fuelling a massive surge in off-trade sales and an increase in domestic drinking,” said Dr Joe Barry, adjunct professor of public health medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

Two outright lies in that little paragraph. Everybody could see that there were fewer and less attractive supermarket alcohol offers during lockdown, it was a captive market. And he implies that people were drinking more - yes they were drinking more at home, but nothing in restaurants and pubs.

Overall alcohol consumption went down.

Disgraceful that they can spout stuff like this and the media just parrot it and never challenge it.

odyssey06 · 24-08-2020 6:41pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Last Saturday's Irish TImes had a front page ad saying "alcohol is too cheap". Whatever group is behind it is too cowardly to give their name, but no prizes for guessing :rolleyes:

Thread here discussing it querying some of the ABVs and bottle sizes... one blatant mistake:
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058106285/1

Geuze · 09-09-2020 9:17am

Fresh Eurostat data on alcohol prices

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20200908-1?inheritRedirect=true&redirect=%2Feurostat%2F

2019 data, EU27 = 100

566e49b1-b979-2a45-4c02-7bb276227e2d?t=1599226092730

566e49b1-b979-2a45-4c02-7bb276227e2d?t=1599226092730

Ireland is in second place.

Source data:

https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?query=BOOKMARK_DS-053404_QID_-7CB78A68_UID_-3F171EB0&layout=TIME,C,X,0;GEO,L,Y,0;NA_ITEM,L,Z,0;PPP_CAT,L,Z,1;INDICATORS,C,Z,2;&zSelection=DS-053404PPP_CAT,A010201;DS-053404INDICATORS,OBS_FLAG;DS-053404NA_ITEM,PLI_EU27_2020;&rankName1=PPP-CAT_1_2_-1_2&rankName2=INDICATORS_1_2_-1_2&rankName3=NA-ITEM_1_2_-1_2&rankName4=TIME_1_0_0_0&rankName5=GEO_1_2_0_1&sortC=ASC_-1_FIRST&rStp=&cStp=&rDCh=&cDCh=&rDM=true&cDM=true&footnes=false&empty=false&wai=false&time_mode=ROLLING&time_most_recent=true&lang=EN&cfo=%23%23%23%2C%23%23%23.%23%23%23

odyssey06 · 09-09-2020 9:35am

Geuze wrote: »

Ireland is in second place.[/url]

Lies, damn lies.

Drink must be cheap. Everyone with an agenda or who has never bought a drink anywhere else in the EU says so.

Leroy42 · 09-09-2020 10:50am

Is that graph relative to average wages or similar benchmark or just a flat price comparison?

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 11:43am

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

punisher5112 · 09-09-2020 11:50am

If they're so concerned give cards to social welfare recipients and have it it can only pay for essential items, basically anything but drink or smokes.... Simples.

Geuze · 09-09-2020 11:52am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Is that graph relative to average wages or similar benchmark or just a flat price comparison?

Relative to EU27 average.

Yellow_Fern · 09-09-2020 11:54am

Way too much inertia on this topic. The Adam Smith Institute had some interviews on Irish TV against MUP. I am sure they are will to do criticisms for the Irish press if they were encouraged.

bronkobilly · 09-09-2020 11:55am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

drink is cheaper in the uk bought some guiness over there way cheaper and its made here that s a laugh

punisher5112 · 09-09-2020 11:56am

bronkobilly wrote: »

drink is cheaper in the uk bought some guiness over there way cheaper and its made here that s a laugh

So is Bailey's and basically anything, there is so much tax and vat added here....

ohnonotgmail · 09-09-2020 11:57am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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