Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Necro · 26-10-2020 11:32pm

coastwatch wrote:

It seems that outcome is more common than we might think, and supports the theory of "super spreaders" , where it's believed as little as 20% of cases are responsible for 80% of transmissions.

Same happened me, tested positive three weeks ago, wife and kids subsequently tested twice and all three were negative twice.

Eod100 · 26-10-2020 11:36pm

Telegraph have story on potential immunity given by any vaccine. https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1320855385385873408?s=19

GT89 · 26-10-2020 11:40pm

Strumms wrote: »

I’m sure doctors, nurses, virologists, and the vast array of other medical and hospital staff would agree with you wholeheartedly, not. :rolleyes:

That's like saying Gardai should have a say in how laws are made

Stheno · 26-10-2020 11:41pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Thanks. I'll see how i feel tomorrow. I would feel stupid for overreacting and taking up resources.
Im going to stay at home. Ive only been out for shopping anyway.

You're not overreacting.

I rang the out of hours doc weeks ago to get advice as my oh suddenly came down with a hacking constant cough and apologised and they said it was absolutely the right thing to do

He tested negative or no virus detected as the text said

26-10-2020 11:41pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Telegraph have story on potential immunity given by any vaccine. https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1320855385385873408?s=19

Remember something about this during the summer, and that more than one dose might be required.

Yep a quote from Fauchi
https://fortune.com/2020/07/07/coronavirus-vaccine-finite-anthony-fauci-update/

bb1234567 · 26-10-2020 11:43pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Telegraph have story on potential immunity given by any vaccine. https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1320855385385873408?s=19

I think that the huge cases in places like Madrid pointed to this being the case..Madrid had huge excess deaths, 0.3% of the city's population, surely a large proportion of the city was infected last Spring if we are to believe the IFR is in the range of 0.5-0.6%..must be many people becoming reinfected to see such massive growth of cases again since September onward

Non solum non ambulabit · 26-10-2020 11:45pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Telegraph have story on potential immunity given by any vaccine. https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1320855385385873408?s=19

Did it mention T-cell immunity in the article? That's our primary defense.

igCorcaigh · 26-10-2020 11:49pm

Stheno wrote: »

You're not overreacting.

I rang the out of hours doc weeks ago to get advice as my oh suddenly came down with a hacking constant cough and apologised and they said it was absolutely the right thing to do

He tested negative or no virus detected as the tomorrow. text said

I usually might need my inhaler during the hay-fever season. But today it came up. I don't know.

I'll see how i feel tomorrow.

hmmm · 26-10-2020 11:54pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Telegraph have story on potential immunity given by any vaccine.

Scare-mongering, it would have to be the Telegraph.

We have no idea how long natural immunity lasts, or vaccine immunity, and the majority of experts in this area say that they expect reinfections (if they happen) will be milder for people with normal immune systems.

We know that patients with SARS1 have memory t-cells of the virus 17 years later.

Jinglejangle69 · 26-10-2020 11:57pm

caveat emptor wrote: »

That Irish study with spread on a plane has gone international. Added to the corpus of evidence of infection on planes at this stage. Again this is not the main issue. It's when people get off the plane. Never the less our own public health professionals and the National Virus Reference Laboratory lab should be commended for going where no politician would dare. Hopefully they don't face any consequences for not toeing the party line. It may not be China but people have been disappeared professionally here when big business have been reported on in the past.

@WhistleIRL springs to mind.

https://twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1320822529821495297?s=20

But travel only accounts for 2%.

It was the schools were told.

bb1234567 · 27-10-2020 12:01am

Israel's robust testing system likely gives the best indicator of COVID IFR so far

Israel tested 50% of it's population of 9 million and 3.5% of the population tested positive.

2453 deaths/310,851 infections

IFR of 0.78%

Bahrain also tested almost 100% of it's population of 1. 7 million

316 deaths/80,500 infections

IFR 0.4%

Bahrain Media age 32 years
Israel median age 30 years

Israeli hospitals were overwhelmed though.

Bahrain is a monarch with strong widespread media/political censorship and limited freedom for citizen's so take it as you will but it's interesting at least
So I think we can say with confidence now the IFR is about 0.4/0.5 when hospitals are coping and 0.8%+ when hospitals are overwhelmed. Many antibody studies have indicated figures in this range but the test results in these countries further reinforce

Unfortunately for us in European Union with median age in the mid fourties it means IFr is certainly above 1% if COVID spreading uncontrolled with older people not isolating and would be 2 million + deaths.

Andorra is a pretty tiny sample with 72 deaths/4325 cases giving an IFR of 1.75%..but they have tested their entire population two times over so it may give an indication of the IFR in an old European country. Andorra has a median age of 45 years, similar to Itaaly and Spain...a lot older than Ireland

quokula · 27-10-2020 12:09am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

But travel only accounts for 2%.

It was the schools were told.

59 cases is about 2% of 3 days worth of infections. So hard to draw any conclusion one way or another from that one example.

Nobotty · 27-10-2020 12:18am

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1320797836699701249?s=19

froog · 27-10-2020 12:20am

bb1234567 wrote: »

Israel's robust testing system likely gives the best indicator of COVID IFR so far

Israel tested 50% of it's population of 9 million and 3.5% of the population tested positive.

2453 deaths/310,851 infections

IFR of 0.78%

Bahrain also tested almost 100% of it's population of 1. 7 million

316 deaths/80,500 infections

IFR 0.4%

Bahrain Media age 32 years
Israel median age 30 years

Israeli hospitals were overwhelmed though.
So I think we can say with confidence now the IFR is about 0.4/0.5 when hospitals are coping and 0.8%+ when hospitals are overwhelmed. Many antibody studies have indicated figures in this range but the test results in these countries further reinforce

Unfortunately for us in European Union with median age in the mid fourties it means IFr is certainly above 1% if COVID spreading uncontrolled with older people not isolating and would be 2 million + deaths

good data there. people will use those IFR figures to play down the virus unfortunately. it's still 4-8 times deadlier than the flu, at least twice as infectious (and probably more than that) and we have no widespread immunity or vaccine. it's a very serious virus.

Leftwaffe · 27-10-2020 12:22am

hmmm wrote: »

Scare-mongering, it would have to be the Telegraph.

We have no idea how long natural immunity lasts, or vaccine immunity, and the majority of experts in this area say that they expect reinfections (if they happen) will be milder for people with normal immune systems.

We know that patients with SARS1 have memory t-cells of the virus 17 years later.

The headline is misleading. The study didn't examine the role of t cells which are apparently just as important in fighting covid. It also says that vaccines might give a stronger immune response than natural immunity.

Really is scare mongering.

SeaBreezes · 27-10-2020 12:26am

hmmm wrote: »

Scare-mongering, it would have to be the Telegraph.

We have no idea how long natural immunity lasts, or vaccine immunity, and the majority of experts in this area say that they expect reinfections (if they happen) will be milder for people with normal immune systems.

We know that patients with SARS1 have memory t-cells of the virus 17 years later.

Its a completely different virus. Both in how it 'hides' from Tcells and ages them 5-10 years.

Definately a worry.

SeaBreezes · 27-10-2020 12:26am

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1320797836699701249?s=20

SeaBreezes · 27-10-2020 12:29am

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Thanks. I'll see how i feel tomorrow. I would feel stupid for overreacting and taking up resources.
Im going to stay at home. Ive only been out for shopping anyway.

Best of luck!!

caveat emptor · 27-10-2020 12:31am

Interesting perspective from Irish Public Health Doctor in Australia.
Breaks down exactly how they did it and can compare directly to Ireland as worked there too.

Arghus · 27-10-2020 12:40am

hmmm wrote: »

Scare-mongering, it would have to be the Telegraph.

We have no idea how long natural immunity lasts, or vaccine immunity, and the majority of experts in this area say that they expect reinfections (if they happen) will be milder for people with normal immune systems.

We know that patients with SARS1 have memory t-cells of the virus 17 years later.

I bought a subscription to the Telegraph - it wasn't that pricey - just to get the opposing view on things like Brexit etc. I don't agree with any of it, but I thought it's good to see things from the other side too, even if you don't agree. But I find myself amazed at how truly mental it actually is on just about everything: they're totally deluded! I find myself laughing at the impeccably myopic and reactionary nonsense - but then I remember that this is an approximation of how the UK establishment sees the world.

Right now their headline article is "Boris and Co won’t get away with threatening our Christmas"

stephenjmcd · 27-10-2020 12:53am

Eod100 wrote: »

Telegraph have story on potential immunity given by any vaccine. https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1320855385385873408?s=19

The anti body response in vaccine trials so far has proven stronger than in those who actually got covid.

I'm sure its factored into the trials, data & on going research around multiple vaccines.

T Cells also get a mention there in that article and they appear to be a key target, Oxford for example have so far proven a robust T Cell response

caveat emptor · 27-10-2020 12:55am

Wow Leo on a positive note comparing us to Israel. Not a valid comparison, mush more strict there.

1 km distance from home
Schools closed
Christmas cancelled (Yom Kippur)

If I had to guess maybe we are being primed for an extended school closure. Why else make an invalid comparison? Who knows at this stage. :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54278293

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1320822159153991680?s=20

MOR316 · 27-10-2020 12:57am

caveat emptor wrote: »

Wow Leo on a positive note comparing us to Israel. Not a valid comparison, mush more strict there.
1 km distance from home

Schools closed

Christmas cancelled (Yom Kippur)

If I had to guess maybe we are being primed for an extended school closure. Why else make an invalid comparison? Who knows at this stage. :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1320822159153991680?s=20

Throw. Sh*t. Wall. Sticks

Loafing Oaf · 27-10-2020 1:11am

caveat emptor wrote: »

Wow Leo on a positive note comparing us to Israel. Not a valid comparison, mush more strict there.

While our mush is proper mush:D

SeaBreezes · 27-10-2020 1:14am

caveat emptor wrote: »

Wow Leo on a positive note comparing us to Israel. Not a valid comparison, mush more strict there.
1 km distance from home

Schools closed

Christmas cancelled (Yom Kippur)

If I had to guess maybe we are being primed for an extended school closure. Why else make an invalid comparison? Who knows at this stage. :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54278293

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1320822159153991680?s=20

Yeah, he was holding Belgium up as an example to be followed a few weeks ago. Now the sh*t has hit the fan there hes changing country as best example to follow..

https://twitter.com/williamhboney1/status/1320774636079140864?s=20

Strumms · 27-10-2020 1:16am

GT89 wrote: »

That's like saying Gardai should have a say in how laws are made

It’s nothing of the same at all, but you already know this.

bb1234567 · 27-10-2020 1:40am

164 deaths in Czech Rep today..looking like the new field hospital in Prague is going to get busy anyway. This is the same number of deaths per capita that Italy and Spain reported at their very peak, CZ is nowhere close to a peak yet however.

CZ will suffer many more deaths above the European average because there is not the same caution instilled in the population as occurred in the rest of Europe in April. I saw a news report in prague today, random citizens seemed relatively unphased during interviews and pretty much business as usual, Czech GP's seemed alarmed by the total disregard citizens were showing toward the seriousness of the situation

FintanMcluskey · 27-10-2020 2:31am

bb1234567 wrote: »

164 deaths in Czech Rep today..looking like the new field hospital in Prague is going to get busy anyway. This is the same number of deaths per capita that Italy and Spain reported at their very peak, CZ is nowhere close to a peak yet however.

CZ will suffer many more deaths above the European average because there is not the same caution instilled in the population as occurred in the rest of Europe in April. I saw a news report in prague today, random citizens seemed relatively unphased during interviews and pretty much business as usual, Czech GP's seemed alarmed by the total disregard citizens were showing toward the seriousness of the situation

CZ were the poster boy of Europe early on for the early hard lockdown of my memory serves me correctly.

CZ never had the first wave, and with a highly transmissible virus that discriminately targets old vulnerable people and causes a sharp spike in deaths of those people in a short space of time, it doesn’t look good for the next month or so in CZ.

On the bolded part, why is that surprising? Were lockdowns thought to be perpetually adhered to last March?

The life of a working class man/woman has become work/go home. Rinse repeat. The working class have **** all motivation to go to work if that all life will become for the next few years

jams100 · 27-10-2020 3:00am

If you want a laugh between all the negativity and bleakness that covid brings I'd recommend Callans kicks podcast, might give a few people a laugh in these depressing times. (His George Lee impression is bang on the money).

SeaBreezes · 27-10-2020 3:45am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

CZ were the poster boy of Europe early on for the early hard lockdown of my memory serves me correctly.

CZ never had the first wave, and with a highly transmissible virus that discriminately targets old vulnerable people and causes a sharp spike in deaths of those people in a short space of time, it doesn’t look good for the next month or so in CZ.

On the bolded part, why is that surprising? Were lockdowns thought to be perpetually adhered to last March?

The life of a working class man/woman has become work/go home. Rinse repeat. The working class have **** all motivation to go to work if that all life will become for the next few years

Yes but its 8 months later. Many many more will be saved by the knowledge acquired in that time.

And honestly, my life, work and go home, hasnt changed a huge amount. The joys of parenthood perhaps.

But not socialising for a year and saving lives? Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

The people suffering the most are the frontliners, and the business owners. And it sucks. Absolutely. But countries that dont lockdown, economically suffered worse, with higher mortality rates and no governmemt assist for the businesses. Its a no win situation.

mandrake04 · 27-10-2020 6:11am

caveat emptor wrote: »

Interesting perspective from Irish Public Health Doctor in Australia.
Breaks down exactly how they did it and can compare directly to Ireland as worked there too.

Interesting video, thanks.

The mandatory quarantine already be done to death on here, but from experience I agree with most of his other points which I have posted here before.

Strength of Australian health system and testing, also busting all the PCR testing myths and why they dont use antigen testing.

Why the Melbourne lockdown was harsh but necessary, was more to do with hunting down the virus rather than hiding from it.

The only comment I didnt agree with was on schools, I think they closed schools in QLD for a few weeks and of course Victoria but NSW and I think the other states schools never closed.

amadangomor · 27-10-2020 8:53am

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I usually might need my inhaler during the hay-fever season. But today it came up. I don't know.

I'll see how i feel tomorrow.

I had a respiratory infection in March that has given me asthma. Wasn't tested then as there was no capacity.

Had the tight chest thing at the time. Ring your doctor this morning. I think the tight chest thing will be enough for the doctor to send you for a test.

Best to get his/her opinion with what you already have, never mind how you will feel now in the morning

amadangomor · 27-10-2020 8:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

Varadkar is a complete and utter muppet. No adequate comparison to be made with the schools still open here and tourists hopping off the plane. A half-arsed and ineffectual lockdown that could extend for months, hammering the retail and hospitality sectors into the ground mercilessly. Instead of tanking the economy with little end product, let sanity prevail by returning to level three. We're stuck with the virus whether we like it or not until a vaccine is circulated widely, an uneasy co-existence but unavoidable in the short to medium term. Compromises must be made before protests break out by business owners & workers fed up of being unfairly targeted.

We could have stayed on level three if the minority that are reckless behaved.

iamwhoiam · 27-10-2020 9:06am

Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

BobbyMalone · 27-10-2020 9:09am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

It seems to be explained (in the UK anyway) as being an attempt to make it 'fairer' on shops that only sell clothes that have had to close completely.

Although I think Tesco have deemed tampons non-essential (in a shop in the UK), so I'm not sure how good a judge of this they are.

The HorsesMouth · 27-10-2020 9:10am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

It's to stop the general mixing of people.i.e clothes shops open = more people going into town and shopping. They want people to stay at home and only to shop for essentials.
I'm not advocating this position...just explaining what the rational is.

iamwhoiam · 27-10-2020 9:13am

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

It's to stop the general mixing of people.i.e clothes shops open = more people going into town and shopping. They want people to stay at home and only to shop for essentials.
I'm not advocating this position...just explaining what the rational is.

Yes I understand that rational .But Dunnes is open anyway and people already in the shop .?

Pinch Flat · 27-10-2020 9:14am

People tend to browse and congregate more when clothes shopping people won't really deliberate what kind of milk they're buying.

27-10-2020 9:15am

hmmm wrote: »

Scare-mongering, it would have to be the Telegraph.

We have no idea how long natural immunity lasts, or vaccine immunity, and the majority of experts in this area say that they expect reinfections (if they happen) will be milder for people with normal immune systems.

We know that patients with SARS1 have memory t-cells of the virus 17 years later.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/eji.202048970

A peer reviewed study from a few days ago. Some key points:

Between days 40-199 we found 90% of previous SARS-CoV-2-PCR-positive subjects (198/221), healthcare workers and potential plasma donors, to carry antibodies, 75% of which had medium to high titres (>300). In addition, we found that in subjects with detectable anti-SARS-CoV-2 IgG, neutralisation activity was in accordance with the determined IgG titre level

Supports the idea that after a sharp drop post infection antibodies did stabilise. They were still detectable in 90% of the participants after 6 months.

This and the strong correlation between RBD IgG titres and neutralising activity as well as protective immunity [16, 31], suggests that most people infected with SARS-CoV-2 will have circulating protective immunity for many months after COVID-19. In addition, recent reports of T cell responsiveness [32-35] show a robust T cell response. Since the SARS-CoV-2 response is in line with well-known and detailed studied immune responses resulting in lymphocyte memory, it is very likely that SARS-CoV-2 protective immunity, reducing disease severity, will last for at least a few years.

For reference in the original SARS antibodies were detectable in 50% of participants after 3 years. Specific T-cells were still present a full 17 years later indicating some level of long term protective immunity.

prunudo · 27-10-2020 9:23am

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

It's to stop the general mixing of people.i.e clothes shops open = more people going into town and shopping. They want people to stay at home and only to shop for essentials.
I'm not advocating this position...just explaining what the rational is.

That is all well and good, but given the amount of exemptions to type of work allowed and that schools are open I don't understand why they are being so draconian on it. Tesco and the likes have always sold mixed goods, not like they are trying to capitalise on the closure of other shops.

caveat emptor · 27-10-2020 9:23am

mandrake04 wrote: »

Interesting video, thanks.

The mandatory quarantine already be done to death on here, but from experience I agree with most of his other points which I have posted here before.

Strength of Australian health system and testing, also busting all the PCR testing myths and why they dont use antigen testing.

Why the Melbourne lockdown was harsh but necessary, was more to do with hunting down the virus rather than hiding from it.

The only comment I didnt agree with was on schools, I think they closed schools in QLD for a few weeks and of course Victoria but NSW and I think the other states schools never closed.

Yeah they really are set up for this kind of thing. The planning that was already in place. The way the community, local hospitals and public health seamlessly worked together. He explained well how public health doctors are on par with their colleagues in other disciplines in terms of seniority so they effectively have a seat at the table and have much more weight in requisitioning resources etc once an outbreak is identified. He mentioned how a hospital in the area will provide nursing resources at request once an outbreak identified in a nursing home for example. Terrible failings her on that issue.

The other thing which made tonnes of sense regarding borders was 'border bubbles'. i.e communities that clearly straddle the border get exemptions and are free to cross for legitimate reasons in both directions. Working and even visiting family etc. That would work here and destroy the border straw man argument.

The other thing was the tough restrictions but very good support. Public heath were the ones leading the effort. i.e if someone can't do grocery shopping or is vulnerable the state would do everything in it's power to support a person while quarantining. The fines were serious and enforced but their disaster management infrastructure allowed them to support those who would in all likelihood say "fvck the police".

It's clearly a political failing as to why we can't decide to go after the virus.
Maybe political change when it comes will be the catalyst for a change in strategy.
We know how it works now so come January / February when businesses start to shutter for good and pandemic unemployment payments get reduced maybe people will vote with their feet.

The decision may become academic if we have 2 / 3 more waves. The herd immunity theory is not standing up to scrutiny.

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1320973513784786944?s=20

phormium · 27-10-2020 9:25am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

I think it's more on the level playing field thing, very unfair to a small clothes shop to have to close and Tesco/Dunnes down the road selling clothes away! Plus of course it does slightly decrease the amount of people mingling.

27-10-2020 9:25am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes I understand that rational .But Dunnes is open anyway and people already in the shop .?

Irish and international chains complaining to tds and ministers about the fact that they are closed due to level 5 restrictions, but the likes of Dunnes and Tescos had that part open. Quote from LV saying that it wasn't acceptable for them to be doing so posted last week.

You were lucky regarding the last lockdown, the Tesco in Navan has theirs closed off also that time too.

27-10-2020 9:28am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes I understand that rational .But Dunnes is open anyway and people already in the shop .?

Because other clothes, shoes, homeware, etc shops were angry and complaining about this competitive advantage.

Away With The Fairies · 27-10-2020 9:29am

BobbyMalone wrote: »

It seems to be explained (in the UK anyway) as being an attempt to make it 'fairer' on shops that only sell clothes that have had to close completely.

Although I think Tesco have deemed tampons non-essential (in a shop in the UK), so I'm not sure how good a judge of this they are.

That's fake news about Tesco not selling tampons.
I saw that news piece about Tesco not selling alcohol. Young lady who tweeted why she couldn't buy tampons. I looked for her name on twitter and it didn't exist.

Jim_Hodge · 27-10-2020 9:37am

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

That's fake news about Tesco not selling tampons..

Not quite. It was in Wales and Tesco has apologised and rectified the situation.

Boggles · 27-10-2020 9:37am

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bank holiday weekend - no discharges. Would expect that number to drop significantly on Wednesday.

There has been 65 discharges since Saturday.

Away With The Fairies · 27-10-2020 9:37am

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Not quite. It was in Wales and Tesco has apologised and rectified the situation.

Ok. Weird I couldn't find the Twitter post

The HorsesMouth · 27-10-2020 9:38am

prunudo wrote: »

That is all well and good, but given the amount of exemptions to type of work allowed and that schools are open I don't understand why they are being so draconian on it. Tesco and the likes have always sold mixed goods, not like they are trying to capitalise on the closure of other shops.

Agree with all this. The closure of clothes shops and non essential retail to me makes no sense. They did a study in US or UK, I can't remember, which said retail was the cause of a negligible amount of virus spread.
I walked into Dunnes the other day to see it all closed off and it was the first time I felt like I was going to lose the plot with anger. Not with Dunnes or anything but with the government etc for implementing ridiculous petty restrictions when there's no need. The 5km rule is another one.

bb1234567 · 27-10-2020 9:42am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

It's to discourage people leaving the house and being out and about and you can't close places that provide food so this is where that leaves us

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

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