The Fishal Olympics Boxing Thread

menoscemo · 24-08-2008 11:31am

walshb wrote: »

I think it was a close close fight that neither can really say the WON it. I can't really claim a robbery, yes, Egan wasn't scored for several shots, but I also saw the Chinaman not get a few as well.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics2008/player.html
The bout will come up here soon bren, now seriously watch the last two rounds when it does and look out for the chinaman's scores and ask yoursself what they are for? (tip, mute Magee) I honestly think his last 4or 5 points were for nothing (not mentioning Egans punches not landed). This result is an absolute scandal, the more you see it the more you realise it. We were robbed. I am certain that this story is going to grow.

Big Ears · 24-08-2008 11:32am

walshb wrote: »

I think it was a close close fight that neither can really say the WON it. I can't really claim a robbery, yes, Egan wasn't scored for several shots, but I also saw the Chinaman not get a few as well. Had this bout been a scorecard affair, I think Egan gets the nod. I was impressed by the Chinaman who was very slick and tricky and big. He has obviously improved immensely since Darren O'Neill beat him.

I'm certain if you watched the whole fight back in slow motion that you'd find Egan as a clear winner, I don't believe the Chinese fighter landed many punches with appropriate force, with the white part of the glove to the proper target area. There were a few light slaps he didn't get points for but then again he didn't deserve them.

The Chinese wanted their medals at any cost and the whole judging conspiracy thing seems to back this up. Boxing isn't the only sport found to have been a little dodgy at this Olympics either.

walshb · 24-08-2008 11:35am

I will have to watch the bout again then, but from my first and only viewing, I thought Egan may have just lost it. It really was close no matter how many times you watch it. Put it this way, it was definitely his closest bout in the games:). Egan was forced to lead against a fast and rangy fighter. The tactics from the Chinese were very very good.

menoscemo · 24-08-2008 11:39am

as reported in the guardian blog:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2008/aug/24/olympics2008.olympicsbasketball

8.54am: Boxing: Egan is up against Xiaoping Zhang who is, as you might fear, Chinese, and that's got the commentators already in a froth as the judging has been somewhat partisan in these Games. After one round, Egan is 2-0 down, although there's one punch missed by the judges. "Some think that Zhang's name might be on the gold medal already," says the Jim Nielly in the commentary box, who wouldn't be one of them, oh no.

8.58am: Boxing and Basketball: It's 5-3 to Zhang at the end of the second, and Egan has landed a few punches to appease the commentators fearing a whitewash. USA lead 91-84 in the basketball at the start of the fourth quarter, with Richard Tucker loving it: "It's almost 3 in the am here in Arkansas, I'm an expat and no way in love with the game of basketball but this is riveting stuff. Another glass of wine for me please." Is that how you say it now: "3 in the am"?

9am: Boxing: Great stuff from Kenny Egan, who gets it back to 6-5 in the third round despite landing at least three body shots that aren't noticed by the judges. Zhang grazes Egan to get himself another point - they saw that, didn't they - and it's 7-5 to the Chinese at the end of the roung.

9.03am: Boxing: Xhang has the boxing wrapped up, as he takes a 9-6 lead in the final round and has the weight of the nation's "judges" behind him. "We don't want to make it sound like sour grapes," says Jim Nielly, at the vines...

9.06am: Boxing: Kenny Egan, Ireland, wins silver for Ireland in the light heavyweight boxing
Yep, the judges were biased and yep, Egan landed at least five punches that weren't noticed by the judges, but Zhang is the gold medallist, winning 11-7 at the end.

walshb · 24-08-2008 11:42am

One thing I have to say is that of the hundreds of body shots thrown and landed, very very very few have scored and this is for all BOXERS, nothing to do with bias or hometown
decisions.

menoscemo · 24-08-2008 11:46am

he landed plenty of clean head shots too, and the chinese seemed to get scored lots of 'body' shots even though you don't see them connecting (egan said they hit his elbows.)

Mr.Nice Guy · 24-08-2008 11:47am

I think the judges must have mistaken the buttons for Egan and Zhang because every time Egan got a hit it seemed to go to the Chinese guy!

I think it was scored very unfairly. I don't know if I'd say Egan should have won it but it should have been a lot closer and possibly all square.

I feel really disappointed but Egan has at least given us something to cheer for which a lot of our athletes can't say.

Big Ears · 24-08-2008 11:50am

walshb wrote: »

One thing I have to say is that of the hundreds of body shots thrown and landed, very very very few have scored and this is for all BOXERS, nothing to do with bias or hometown
decisions.

Discount all of Egan's body punches and you'll probably still find him a winner.

efb · 24-08-2008 11:54am

Lads the Chinaman def got the first even Kenny said that. After that it was very edgy and close, 2 and three were all square and round 4 saw more cat and mouse from the Chinese. On paper 19-20 20-20 20-20 20-20(you might even give the last to the Chinaman), 79-80. Again the margin might have been slightly wide but the decision was unfortunitly correct.

menoscemo · 24-08-2008 12:00pm

efb wrote: »

Lads the Chinaman def got the first even Kenny said that. After that it was very edgy and close, 2 and three were all square and round 4 saw more cat and mouse from the Chinese. On paper 19-20 20-20 20-20 20-20(you might even give the last to the Chinaman), 59-60. Again the margin might have been slightly wide but the decision was unfortunitly correct.

I think Egan won the 2nd and the third very clearly

walshb · 24-08-2008 12:09pm

Big Ears wrote: »

Discount all of Egan's body punches and you'll probably still find him a winner.

Disregarding body shots is what I did and I thought it was a mighty close fight.
Body shots unfortunately mean pretty much nothing!

There was a couple of times where Egan landed and the Chinaman got the score; but that too has happened in all bouts involving all fighters.

I fully agree that the Chinese boxers to some extent are at an advantage and this is to be expected, being the home country. Is it right? absolutely NOT, but it happens in all Olympic tournaments and sports. I don't see any major difference between this and previous
Olympic tournaments. I don't like the comps, period!

efb · 24-08-2008 12:30pm

All in all lads 1 Silver 2 Bronze, all our boxers beaten by Gold Medalists. Very well done. Excellent result.

twinytwo · 24-08-2008 1:00pm

sure what happened with egan happened with barnes... granted barnes would not have won but to not have been givin a single point when he clearly landed 6/7 solid head shots.. i smell conspiracey... and what about Degales final.. that was more of a hugging match than a boxing match.. he fought like a pussy and i thought the cuban had him

walshb · 24-08-2008 1:01pm

Anyone happen to read the News of the world page 7 I think.
Egan's woman did an article and all she had to talk
about was the SEX he would be getting when he
gets home. A little classless and tacky I thought and I doubt
Kenny will be all that happy

menoscemo · 24-08-2008 1:02pm

walshb wrote: »

Disregarding body shots is what I did and I thought it was a mighty close fight.
Body shots unfortunately mean pretty much nothing!

There was a couple of times where Egan landed and the Chinaman got the score; but that too has happened in all bouts involving all fighters.

I fully agree that the Chinese boxers to some extent are at an advantage and this is to be expected, being the home country. Is it right? absolutely NOT, but it happens in all Olympic tournaments and sports. I don't see any major difference between this and previous
Olympic tournaments. I don't like the comps, period!

Ok, it is up on the RTE Website now http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics2008/player.html
Now check out specifically the last two rounds from 9mins 30 seconds on. Specifically when Egan has it at 5-6 they give the chinese a point for nothing (the punch goes way over his head) with 40 seconds to go in round 3 (at 11mins 3 sec) and disregard 4 or 5 clean (headshopts) from egan. Disgrace IMO.

I am not arguing with the first two tounds, but as it got close with two rounds to go the majority of the Chinese punches were nothing (including several 'body' blows). Anyway watch for yourself and analyse it. (Mute Magee BTW he is just a distraction with his talk of darts palyer John Lowe never closing his eyes-WTF?).

SEPT 23 1989 · 24-08-2008 1:19pm

ABSOLUTE DISGRACE ,i had a terrible feeling while watching this that no matter how many points he got the Chinaman would win

gordon_gekko · 24-08-2008 1:23pm

walshb wrote: »

Anyone happen to read the News of the world page 7 I think.
Egan's woman did an article and all she had to talk
about was the SEX he would be getting when he
gets home. A little classless and tacky I thought and I doubt
Kenny will be all that happy

yeah im sure he is furious at the prospect of having his brains shagged out of him instead of his brains beaten out of him for the past few weeks

walshb · 24-08-2008 1:43pm

gordon_gekko wrote: »

yeah im sure he is furious at the prospect of having his brains shagged out of him instead of his brains beaten out of him for the past few weeks

Hey, who wouldn't welcome that, but I'd still prefer the missus acted in a classier way and didn't go broadcasting to the nation the type of woman she is...That's all!

walshb · 24-08-2008 1:44pm

Fellas, I think way too much is being made of this loss. I saw far worse decisions to be honest!

Big Ears · 24-08-2008 2:05pm

walshb wrote: »

Fellas, I think way too much is being made of this loss. I saw far worse decisions to be honest!

You're right Beterbiyev hammered the Chinese fighter too and still lost.

walshb · 24-08-2008 2:19pm

Hero Of College wrote: »

Strange thing to say really isn't it?

They top the medals table, yet to you they seem handicapped:rolleyes:

With a POP of 1.3 Billion, I wouldn't think it odd that
one or two would be decent boxers!

Hero, you have said nothing new on this thread regarding the decisions.
We all knew that the home country would receive a certain amount of bias;
this has always been the case.

I think you want to believe that it's actually rigged as opposed to
simply the judges slightly favoring the host nation.

Kenny lost a close fight against a very clever and good fighter. He
may well have got the decision had he fought anywhere but China, but then again, he
may well not have too.

walshb · 24-08-2008 2:23pm

Big Ears wrote: »

You're right Beterbiyev hammered the Chinese fighter too and still lost.

Are you intimating that Kenny clearly clearly won the bout and that there was nothing close about it?

C'mon now, it was a close close fight.

One thing that I noticed with Kenny thru the tournament was he seems
to miss a lot of shots and fall in and over the opponents shoulder. He
did this a bit in the final. The speed and timing isn't there. He is a real
intelligent fighter, but he needs the man to come to him as opposed to
backing off.

Big Ears · 24-08-2008 2:38pm

walshb wrote: »

Are you intimating that Kenny clearly clearly won the bout and that there was nothing close about it?

C'mon now, it was a close close fight.

One thing that I noticed with Kenny thru the tournament was he seems
to miss a lot of shots and fall in and over the opponents shoulder. He
did this a bit in the final. The speed and timing isn't there. He is a real
intelligent fighter, but he needs the man to come to him as opposed to
backing off.

When you really look at things in detail yes. At quick glance it appears close but look at all the shots that did and didn't score for both fighters and I feel Egan is a clear winner.

The Chinese fighter did land quite a few shots, but a high number of these were non scoring punches due to striking with the wrong part of the glove, not hitting the target area and not having appropriate force. I'm also sure I saw his score went up without throwing a punch at one point.

walshb · 24-08-2008 2:39pm

I will watch it this evening on 'Olympics Today' and get back tomorrow.

eagle eye · 24-08-2008 2:46pm

I didn't want to post this morning because I was irate to put it mildly. I have just watched the fight three times now and I would have had the score(based on the way they have been scoring this Olympics) at 11-7 to Kenny Egan.

Walshb on the Paddy Barnes thing, I just understand how he felt after seeing a 15-0 scoreline when he thought it was more like 9-3, I had it 11-3 myself but I'm sure he would have had it less than that. If you don't want to give a guy who bust his ass for Ireland a break in a heat of the moment comment just after his loss, well I think thats harsh.

eagle eye · 24-08-2008 2:47pm

walshb wrote: »

I will watch it this evening on 'Olympics Today' and get back tomorrow.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics2008/player.html

You can watch it there if you want.

walshb · 24-08-2008 2:49pm

Can't view that link. I tried earlier and couldn't then either.
Something about 'not being available, except in Ireland'

walshb · 24-08-2008 2:52pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I didn't want to post this morning because I was irate to put it mildly. I have just watched the fight three times now and I would have had the score(based on the way they have been scoring this Olympics) at 11-7 to Kenny Egan.

Walshb on the Paddy Barnes thing, I just understand how he felt after seeing a 15-0 scoreline when he thought it was more like 9-3, I had it 11-3 myself but I'm sure he would have had it less than that. If you don't want to give a guy who bust his ass for Ireland a break in a heat of the moment comment just after his loss, well I think thats harsh.

The scoring and the bronze are two separate issues
I can fully understand his anger at not
being awarded a score; but all he had to say was that the
lack of a score was a disgrace and leave it at that. He then went on to say 'stuff the medal.'
Even getting scores, he was still well beaten.

That's the problem and IMO, he was out of order; and anyone I have
spoken too also felt the same.

eagle eye · 24-08-2008 2:53pm

walshb wrote: »

Can't view that link. I tried earlier and couldn't then either.
Something about 'not being available, except in Ireland'

Well if you are not in Ireland you cannot watch it unless you use other software. You can pm me if you want regarding your location and I'll help you out if I can.

walshb · 24-08-2008 2:56pm

Thanks Eagle. I will wait till 7 pm tonight with the bigger screen and replays etc; and slow motion.

alanceltic · 24-08-2008 9:18pm

walshb wrote: »

That's the problem and IMO, he was out of order; and anyone I have
spoken too also felt the same.

I think he only person who was out of order here was Marty (I look look like podge & rodge) Morrissey, he knows NOTHING about boxing and kept on probing the young lad when he should have changed tact, RTE insist on using this plank for the pro fights too I just hope that they kick him back to the GAA gang (and even they dont deserve him).... You absolutely cant blame the kid for what he said after getting straight out of the ring, if he was a seasoned pro then mabey but he isnt,,,,,

madds · 24-08-2008 9:52pm

Yes, the scoring was dodgy, a blind man could see it. I didn't see Egan's BBC interview but saw the one he gave to RTE immediately after the fight and he was very gracious in defeat. Whilst feeling very angry in the aftermath of the fight, I felt very proud listening to this Irishman expressing is delight at having won silver.

A nice touch from Egan also during the medals ceremony when he tapped the Chinese fighter on the shoulder, took the gold medal in his hand, gave it a kiss, and then shook hands with the victor.

Well done Kenny Egan.

nacho libre · 25-08-2008 11:01am

madds wrote: »

Yes, the scoring was dodgy, a blind man could see it. I didn't see Egan's BBC interview but saw the one he gave to RTE immediately after the fight and he was very gracious in defeat. Whilst feeling very angry in the aftermath of the fight, I felt very proud listening to this Irishman expressing is delight at having won silver.

A nice touch from Egan also during the medals ceremony when he tapped the Chinese fighter on the shoulder, took the gold medal in his hand, gave it a kiss, and then shook hands with the victor.

Well done Kenny Egan.

Yes. It was a nice gesture. Also, Egan was very gracious when he acknowledged that Xiapong had to come through the hard side of the draw.
I watched the fight again, and, while it should have been closer on the score cards, i still feel Xiaoping just about edged it. His style of fighting and reach caused Egan a lot of problems. one final thing, i hope De Gale doesn't stay an amateur till 2012 as i would love to see him and Sutherland fight again in the professional ranks at some stage.

walshb · 25-08-2008 2:50pm

Well, I got to see the bout again on BBC interactive. This time I could relax watching it and study it. I still think it was a very close fought contest with Kenny maybe doing enough to win (add his non scores against his opponents scores that should not have scored), and Kenny deserved it. However, that's being generous to an extent and it's being a little too perfect as well!

I tried to watch it without any bias and saw the Chinaman register some dubious scores, arms, elbow shots etc.

Kenny really doesn't like attacking and looked ponderous and laborious at times.

The big factor IMO was the Chinamans size. He looked bigger and had a massive reach which Kenny found hard to handle.

All in all, Kenny did great and lost a very close fight that he could well have won. I still cannot say robbery here, as he Chinaman was very good and fought a very clever and tactical fight.

Woodhall and Neilly never said Kenny was robbed; they simply believed Kenny didn't receive scores for shots he landed and that the bout was closer than the final score suggested. 11-7 is damn close anyway.

Big Ears · 25-08-2008 3:58pm

I'm going to warn you for spamming, there is no reason to post 5 times in a row like that, just edit your first post to include additional comments.

Your last post only quoted yourself anyway.

walshb · 25-08-2008 6:43pm

Hero Of College wrote: »

I was trying to fix a post to satisfy the oriental-leaning whims of WalshB.

I am playing catchup here!!!

This is your last chance Hero.

Man, you are only back a couple of days and you're off!

Cop on, enjoy the forum and leave out the
childish snide remarks!

alanceltic · 25-08-2008 8:07pm

at least try and get a week under your belt without quoteing somebody to death.....it nice to see that you have at least lost most of ur attitude....welcome back

The Fishal Olympics Boxing Thread

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