ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

Boggles · 19-02-2019 3:45pm

malinheader wrote: »

People might not agree with me but I would be making sure they couldn't get back.no matter what it meant.

How?

Please base it on reality.

Ranting and Raving, shooting her in the head and throwing her bones in prison is not reality.

Deebles McBeebles · 19-02-2019 3:45pm

123balltv wrote: »

Security wise how would officers keep track of her in public if in full burka

Burka Bug.

Gonna make a fortune on that one.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 3:46pm

malinheader wrote: »

But why. If I committed crimes in say, France, Columbia, USA or China would I not be jailed in the countries in which I committed the crimes.

From what I can tell, Ohno believes that because they are Muslim they should be given a free pass. And its Islamophobic to think otherwise.

Try them in the region. The women and wives will need extensive reverse brainwashing to the point they are comfortable with western values again - simple things like shaking hands with a man, etc. When they are ok with this and show genuine remorse, they are free to go.

The men will need to be seriously investigated. Were they involved in crimes against humanity, murder, rape and so on. It shouldn't be too hard to find out who the leaders were, who issued the orders, where they fought and so on.
This is far easier done in the region than allowing them back here where they will disappear off radar as soon as they return.

end of the road · 19-02-2019 3:47pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's generally not how crimes are prosecuted and well you know it.

If you or I committed a serious crime in the US, we would not be tried in Ireland for the crime. We'd be tried in the US if captured there or extradited if we left the country.

Generally you are tried where the crime is committed and where the local police or prosecutors are doing the investigation. And also where most of the witnesses and hard evidence is.

So bringing them home to the west where there are no witnesses, no evidence and no-one to investigate seriously the crimes is laughable and well you know it. They'd be released for lack of evidence onto Western European streets.

Investigate and punish them where they committed the crimes which is the middle east. The victims of ISIS at least deserve that. And if they committed crimes against humanity in the region they should be punished accordingly.

But letting them return here freely as you propose is not going to happen.

I personally would love to see a Yazidi lynch mob impose justice on some of these thugs. I do think the West should support the Yazidi's and Kurds in imposing justice and the Kurds have said they are not against doing this if helped by the west and if Turkey doesn't attack them in the meantime.

actually the kurds have apparently said they want them gone back to where they came from. so no matter how much you or others want otherwise, they will not be forced to take on western terrorists. so britain especially will have to sort it's own problems out for once.

Boggles · 19-02-2019 3:47pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I know this is a really far fetched idea but as a Londoner, I don’t want her near any of my family and friends so is it possible to issue her with a barring order? I’m not familiar with the ins and outs of them. Then send her to some far flung island to live out her days.

Hmmm, because it isn't 1846.

Gatling · 19-02-2019 3:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

actually the kurds have apparently said they want them gone back to where they came from.

This claim has been thrown around this thread but despite the many other claims that the UK will deal with her and others there has been nothing shown to back up yours and others claims - plenty of round and round opinion saying the UK ,UK UK. But little or no facts

19-02-2019 3:55pm

Boggles wrote: »

Hmmm, because it isn't 1846.

Tbh boggles. I don’t give one **** about that woman’s feelings. She wants to come back to British soil but the vast majority of people living on that soil don’t want her there. So, fulfill the duty of bringing the citizen back to uninhabited British land.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 3:56pm

Boggles wrote: »

How?

Please base it on reality.

Ranting and Raving, shooting her in the head and throwing her bones in prison is not reality.

I would give permission to the countries where they are captured and committed atrocities to deal with them as they like once found to be guilty.

I am sure that they would oblige. My opinion.

I think it would deter a lot of these people knowing they won't be able to crawl back to a 2 or 3 year sentence in probably better conditions than what they were in.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 4:00pm

end of the road wrote: »

actually the kurds have apparently said they want them gone back to where they came from. so no matter how much you or others want otherwise, they will not be forced to take on western terrorists. so britain especially will have to sort it's own problems out for once.

What if they offered them 5,10,20,000 a head for each one dealt with. I would think it be a whole lot cheaper than 24 hour monitoring . Plus no fear of killing again.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 4:02pm

end of the road wrote: »

actually the kurds have apparently said they want them gone back to where they came from. so no matter how much you or others want otherwise, they will not be forced to take on western terrorists. so britain especially will have to sort it's own problems out for once.

Nope. The Kurds said they would keep and try the suspects if they got help from the west and if the Turks didn't invade. Both very reasonable.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/19/syrian-kurdish-leader-ilham-ahmed-international-force-kurds-turkey-border

She also said Kurds were willing to put foreign fighters on trial in Kurdish Syria if they were given major international support on the legal procedures. “It would be better if they were tried in their own countries,” she added.
She said 800 to 900 Isis foreign fighters were currently held in prison by the Kurds and about 4,000 wives and children in refugee camps. She said: “We have not said we will let the fighters go, but if the Turks attack then it is true we will be fighting for our own existence and it is possible we may not be able to keep them under control and they may return to Europe. That is also at stake when we talk about an attack by the Turkish state.”

It doesn't matter where they came from. What matters is where and against who they committed the crimes. You've missed this key point in your desire to get these ISIS folks back on western soil as quickly as possible, without trial anywhere.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 4:05pm

Boggles wrote: »

Hmmm, because it isn't 1846.

More's the pity when it comes to terrorists and their supporters. We'd all be safer for it. Instead we have to sit around and wait for them to commit atrocities. For them its like shooting fish in a barrel. And when someone complains they are labeled islamophobic, etc.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 4:11pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

From what I can tell, Ohno believes that because they are Muslim they should be given a free pass. And its Islamophobic to think otherwise.

Try them in the region. The women and wives will need extensive reverse brainwashing to the point they are comfortable with western values again - simple things like shaking hands with a man, etc. When they are ok with this and show genuine remorse, they are free to go.

The men will need to be seriously investigated. Were they involved in crimes against humanity, murder, rape and so on. It shouldn't be too hard to find out who the leaders were, who issued the orders, where they fought and so on.
This is far easier done in the region than allowing them back here where they will disappear off radar as soon as they return.

Complete and utter bull****. Please quote the post where i said that or GTFO.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 4:12pm

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Return to sender.

So you are under that mistaken illusion. Glad we cleared that up.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 4:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Complete and utter bull****. Please quote the post where i said that or GTFO.

I withdraw the islamophobic remark against you.

As for preventing her and other ISIS followers returning, there are plenty of means of doing so, the main one being support for the Kurds, Syrians and Iraqis to try them in the region. Anyone found by them to have clean hands and who demonstrates they are once and for all done with ISIS are welcome back.

With regard this particular case, the woman has no passport. She needs the UK government to give her one. They don't seem in a hurry to do that. So yes they can prevent her return if they choose to.

But again the ideal way to prevent their return is try them in the region.

To allow them return without trial is frankly irresponsible in the extreme.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 4:37pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I withdraw the islamophobic remark against you.

As for preventing her and other ISIS followers returning, there are plenty of means of doing so, the main one being support for the Kurds, Syrians and Iraqis to try them in the region. Anyone found by them to have clean hands and who demonstrates they are once and for all done with ISIS are welcome back.

With regard this particular case, the woman has no passport. She needs the UK government to give her one. They don't seem in a hurry to do that. So yes they can prevent her return if they choose to.

But again the ideal way to prevent their return is try them in the region.

They can only prevent her return temporarily.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

To allow them return without trial is frankly irresponsible in the extreme.

On this at least we agree.

Boggles · 19-02-2019 4:44pm

malinheader wrote: »

I would give permission to the countries where they are captured and committed atrocities to deal with them as they like once found to be guilty.

I am sure that they would oblige. My opinion.

Would they be then free to return to their home countries?

scamalert · 19-02-2019 4:59pm

Boggles wrote: »

Would they be then free to return to their home countries?

id imagine uk would send plenty of body bags no ?

as one poster said why even have slightest risk of having someone who would shred person from western country into pieces and chop their head off like an onion that supports that even as idea and belief its right, of her being brought back should make people think hard.

As the only regret she has, because isis were destroyed and she has no where to whore now is only reason she wants to bum of UK lenient system and welfare, not because she likes the western world.

nice_guy80 · 19-02-2019 5:12pm

bubbles o hara wrote: »

Just wondering if you'd feel the same if you had driven your 15 year old daughter to a pop concert in Manchester,seen her full of excitement about the evening ahead as you waved to her as she entered the venue...then the next time you saw her, she was in bits in a body bag?

Just asking for a friend.

yes.
it doesn't remove their right to citizenship
if they do something like that the courts will hand down a judgement and sentence

end of the road · 19-02-2019 5:26pm

scamalert wrote: »

id imagine uk would send plenty of body bags no ?

as one poster said why even have slightest risk of having someone who would shred person from western country into pieces and chop their head off like an onion that supports that even as idea and belief its right, of her being brought back should make people think hard.

As the only regret she has, because isis were destroyed and she has no where to whore now is only reason she wants to bum of UK lenient system and welfare, not because she likes the western world.

not allowing her back won't make others think about anything. those determined to join isis or any other foreign terror group will try to do so no matter what. they are willing to die for the cause so aren't going to be deterred by not being allowed back to their country of origin. if they do decide to go back they will get back if they are determined enough.
the only way of preventing people from joining isis or any other terror group is by actually intercepting them and stopping them.

red petal · 19-02-2019 5:27pm

"Rights" aside, why do you think she should be allowed back and who would benefit from it besides the lining of her own pocket?

A sentence or courts is of no use to anyone who loses their life to an extremist. There has to be a point where your right to "rights" are waivered. I firmly believe fleeing the UK to join extremist groups is one of them.

Folkstonian · 19-02-2019 5:33pm

end of the road wrote: »

not allowing her back won't make others think about anything. those determined to join isis or any other foreign terror group will try to do so no matter what. they are willing to die for the cause so aren't going to be deterred by not being allowed back to their country of origin. if they do decide to go back they will get back if they are determined enough.
the only way of preventing people from joining isis or any other terror group is by actually intercepting them and stopping them.

This isn’t actually true, is it?

Significant numbers of these weasels were quite evidently not willing to die for the cause. When they started being smashed by coalition air strikes and Kurdish and Iraqi ground troops, lots of these ‘hard men’ ran back to Europe.

They enjoyed dishing out the brutality to Kurds, yazidis, Christians, aid workers, the ‘wrong’ kind of Muslims, but when the lead started flying back at them, a lot of them ran home.

If these evil, yet very cowardly, bastards knew there wasn’t a hope of they getting back if they decided to make the trip out there I am pretty sure that many would have thought twice.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 5:33pm

Boggles wrote: »

Would they be then free to return to their home countries?

All depends on how they seem fit to deal with them.

I take it you don't think these scumbags deserve life sentences then.

No point beating around the Bush. Please tell me what you think would be acceptable sentence or retribution.

Boggles · 19-02-2019 5:40pm

malinheader wrote: »

All depends on how they seem fit to deal with them.

You just said you would give them full permission to bring them to justice.

It's a Very simply question, once they were tried and found guilty, and served their sentence if they get one.

Are they then free to return to Britain?

Effects · 19-02-2019 5:46pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

If these evil, yet very cowardly, bastards knew there wasn’t a hope of they getting back if they decided to make the trip out there I am pretty sure that many would have thought twice.

I doubt they had thoughts of return when they went out. Why would they go if they thought there was a chance they would fail. Death is highly likely with failure.

Gatling · 19-02-2019 5:47pm

end of the road wrote: »

the only way of preventing people from joining isis or any other terror group is by actually intercepting them and stopping them.

Your finally in agreement with the majority of posters

Intercept ,stop, eliminate

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 5:50pm

Gatling wrote: »

Your finally in agreement with the majority of posters

Intercept ,stop, eliminate

I'm pretty sure you added the word eliminate yourself.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 5:52pm

Boggles wrote: »

You just said you would give them full permission to bring them to justice.

It's a Very simply question, once they were tried and found guilty, and served their sentence if they get one.

Are they then free to return to Britain?

When they are found guilty, who knows what punishment the country who is holding them will see fit to hand out.
What I said was permission for them to deal with them as they seen fit.
Personally myself I would hope there wouldn't be any need to be worried about them returning.
Again what punishment would you like to see them receive.

Gatling · 19-02-2019 5:53pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you added the word eliminate yourself.

Free hugs don't work

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 6:03pm

I think there is a general consensus they should be tried in situ in the middle east.

We in the west should empower the Kurds, Yazidis, Syrians and Iraqis to try them and give them any legal assistance as well as investigative assistance required. This might include intercepted intelligence, DNA evidence, interrogation methods and so on. And also we should pay for their imprisonment out there, far cheaper I would say to do that than a nice prison cell in the west.

Some might return after their sentences are complete, but hopefully they will have cooled down a bit and had time to reflect on their mistakes.

And anyone who still shows a strong sympathy for the ISIS cause should be sent to the furthest flung British Colony, some south sea island where they can see out their life away from the rest of us.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 6:15pm

Boggles wrote: »

You just said you would give them full permission to bring them to justice.

It's a Very simply question, once they were tried and found guilty, and served their sentence if they get one.

Are they then free to return to Britain?

Answer me a simple question please. I'm sure you seen the link ohnotgmail posted. If not its post no.741.Do you think this is justice. Do you think this would deter anyone. Would you be afraid to leave to join terrorists knowing that this is what you come back to.

ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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