ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

malinheader · 19-02-2019 2:26pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

How can you say she would not be investigated given that previous returnees have been prosecuted and jailed?

Ok. Say sentenced to 7 to 10, out in the street after 3 or 5. Would you be happy with that.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 2:27pm

malinheader wrote: »

Ok. Say sentenced to 7 to 10, out in the street after 3 or 5. Would you be happy with that.

I couldn't give a monkeys what they do to her. That will be britains problem. I'm just responding to your ill-informed nonsense.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 2:30pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I couldn't give a monkeys what they do to her. That will be britains problem. I'm just responding to your ill-informed nonsense.

I bet you don't.
Were you not one of the ones who thought she should be allowed back.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 2:33pm

malinheader wrote: »

I bet you don't.
Were you not one of the ones who thought she should be allowed back.

I'm one of the ones who said that allowing her back isn't a thing. She is a british citizen and is entitled to enter the UK. You know, facts. You should give them a spin.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 2:46pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm one of the ones who said that allowing her back isn't a thing. She is a british citizen and is entitled to enter the UK. You know, facts. You should give them a spin.

Facts. Did you find the fact of the other women that had returned and were prosecuted from yesterday that went out of your head.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 2:47pm

malinheader wrote: »

Facts. Did you find the fact of the other women that had returned and were prosecuted from yesterday that went out of your head.

I haven't been arsed to look. I'm not your personal researcher.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 2:48pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I haven't been arsed to look. I'm not your personal researcher.

Funny I was expecting that reply..
Should of known as you said your no detective

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 2:49pm

malinheader wrote: »

Funny I was expecting that reply..
Should of known as you said your no detective

You're. you're welcome.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tareena-shakil-isis-bride-uk-prison-jail-release-syria-son-terror-a8780891.html

malinheader · 19-02-2019 2:52pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You're. you're welcome.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tareena-shakil-isis-bride-uk-prison-jail-release-syria-son-terror-a8780891.html

Just as I thought. Read the first few lines that was enough.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 2:53pm

malinheader wrote: »

Just as I thought. Read the first few lines that was enough.

did you brain start to hurt?

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 2:59pm

Boggles wrote: »

Why do people keep saying this, like it's a fact?

Her and the 1000's like her are most definitely the West's problem.

That's not some whittle from a Professor with a PHD in the Bleeding Heart.

It's what the Kurds are demanding, backed by The Donald in his usual threatening way.

The proxy war in Syria between the USA and Russia is over, Putin won. The Kurds will be thrown to the wolves and the camps will seize to exist.

You either control their return or they do.

And as others have asked, are you prepared to house her in your home? Are you ok with her going on a housing list, or taking a hospital bed or drawing social welfare or child support?
Will you keep a 24/7 hour watch on her? And the others?
And what will you say when one of those who return commits a terrorist atrocity here? And its guaranteed at least one will. Will you visit and sympathise with the victims and say "it was right to welcome these nutters back?"

In an ideal world these ISIS terrorists would return and return to their old jobs and put all that behind them. However, its unlikely most will be able to return to full time employment, will become embittered and with nothing left to lose commit at best petty crimes and at worst mass murder.

We don't need them back and we should be doing our utmost to keep them where they are. Strip them of their citizenship and let the Syrian and Iraqis deal with them because that's where there crimes were committed. And let the most moderate pass a citizenship test which includes for women shaking hands with a man who is not a relative.

Deebles McBeebles · 19-02-2019 3:01pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You're. you're welcome.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

did you brain start to hurt?

Your

Hedgelayer · 19-02-2019 3:01pm

For all those who think she should be left back into the UK, ye are very soft and probably unable to understand why people don't want her back in the UK.

I don't understand why people want her home, my brain just doesn't fire to that empathic file which feels sorry for terrorist supporter's.

Us and ye are definitely different, no doubt about that.

It's like social justice warrior's and liberals, they don't make any sense to me.

People who are motivated by emotion alone and never facts.

I think its better to have a bit of both.

Unfortunately the liberals lack fact's and not good for society, other than being laughed at and foddder for sensible people.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 3:03pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Your

Touché

malinheader · 19-02-2019 3:03pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

did you brain start to hurt?

At least I have one.
Got you to be my personal researcher anyhow.

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2019 3:04pm

Hedgelayer wrote: »

For all those who think she should be left back into the UK, ye are very soft and probably unable to understand why people don't want her back in the UK.

I don't understand why people want her home, my brain just doesn't fire to that empathic file which feels sorry for terrorist supporter's.

Us and ye are definitely different, no doubt about that.

It's like social justice warrior's and liberals, they don't make any sense to me.

People who are motivated by emotion alone and never facts.

I think its better to have a bit of both.

Unfortunately the liberals lack fact's and not good for society, other than being laughed at and foddder for sensible people.

Again you are under the illusion that britain or any of its citizens have any say in her return. They dont.

end of the road · 19-02-2019 3:07pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

She’s had the baby now, but I wouldn’t have. It’s just one more potential terrorist.

how so?

Hedgelayer · 19-02-2019 3:17pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Again you are under the illusion that britain or any of its citizens have any say in her return. They dont.

Return to sender.

Boggles · 19-02-2019 3:17pm

malinheader wrote: »

Ok. Say sentenced to 7 to 10, out in the street after 3 or 5. Would you be happy with that.

I imagine the most likely scenario will be zero jail time, if she makes it back to the UK.

The chances there is any evidence of her committing an actual crime beyond being a member of a terrorist organisation is probably null.

If the crown decide to prosecute, which they may not.

A less than competent barrister will easily argue to a jury that she was a victim of grooming, backed up by some pretty high profiled comments at the time.

So probably worse case scenario for her is 2 years inside.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 3:21pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Again you are under the illusion that britain or any of its citizens have any say in her return. They dont.

Well how about sending them to a Guantanamo Type camp in a farflung British colony until it can be decided what to do with them? It falls short of striping them of citizenship while also ensuring they are not a threat.

Releasing newly returned ISIS fighters and supporters from Syria into the UK is a recipe for mayhem and disaster.

It would be almost impossible to charge any returning fighter because of lack of hard evidence - ie most of their victims are now dead. It would also be impossible to monitor all of them all of the time.

At the very least these supporters need to go through an extensive program of de-brainwashing before they are fit to mix with normal people again. Do you at least agree with that?

Deebles McBeebles · 19-02-2019 3:22pm

This is a legal grey area which needs to be tightened up because there will be many more of these cases. We have an ongoing Irish one at the moment too.

I'd imagine she will get back to Britain, with a live child, all going well. Its what will happen after that. That will be interesting.

Gatling · 19-02-2019 3:25pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

This is a legal grey area which needs to be tightened up because there will be many more of these cases. We have an ongoing Irish one at the moment too.
.

That's only the start most don't seem to realise we have an unknown number of Isis supporters and possible returning Isis fighters based here that we can't seem to do anything about because they were given Irish passports , bringing this yoke and any of her kind back to the UK could have actual reprocussions for us as a country

malinheader · 19-02-2019 3:26pm

Boggles wrote: »

I imagine the most likely scenario will be zero jail time, if she makes it back to the UK.

The chances there is any evidence of her committing an actual crime beyond being a member of a terrorist organisation is probably null.

If the crown decide to prosecute, which they may not.

A less than competent barrister will easily argue to a jury that she was a victim of grooming, backed up by some pretty high profiled comments at the time.

So probably worse case scenario for her is 2 years inside.

I would say so. Even the piece ohnoontgmail put up seems a joke if this is classed as justice.
These people are going to be a worse threat than when they left.
People keep stating the fact that they cannot stop her going back but surely anyone in power with sense would surely have to try and bring in something to stop this madness to protect there own citizens.
People might not agree with me but I would be making sure they couldn't get back.no matter what it meant.

end of the road · 19-02-2019 3:29pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Her plight is not the west's problem, more important things to worry about. She should have thought about all this before she left. Every last ISIS member is a potential threat, man or woman. They are committed to the downfall of the west, they've made no bones about it. Welcoming them back would be inviting a significant 5th column to return.

And if 99 out of 100 did nothing, it only takes the 100th to commit a terrorist atrocity.

That said intelligence forces usually catch 90% or so of plots before they take place. So for every nutjob who commits a terrorist act, there's 9 or 10 others trying to we never hear of.

i'm afraid they are the west's problem as the west is where they came from.

10000maniacs wrote: »

Firstly, Islamophobia is not a word.
A phobia? – the word comes from an ancient Greek term meaning more-or-less ‘panic’ – is a haunting, disabling, panic-inducing, and above all irrational, terror of something generally considered harmless. Cats, clowns, enclosed spaces and the number 13 are among a myriad of such objects.
It is not a phobia to criticise Islam’s oppression of women, the literally countless terrorist activities all over the world, or the huge, ongoing massacres of Christians in the third world.

islamophobia is a word and a recognized term. designed for those who don't simply stick to criticizing oppression etc, but use those issues to attack all muslims.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And as others have asked, are you prepared to house her in your home? Are you ok with her going on a housing list, or taking a hospital bed or drawing social welfare or child support?
Will you keep a 24/7 hour watch on her? And the others?
And what will you say when one of those who return commits a terrorist atrocity here? And its guaranteed at least one will. Will you visit and sympathise with the victims and say "it was right to welcome these nutters back?"

In an ideal world these ISIS terrorists would return and return to their old jobs and put all that behind them. However, its unlikely most will be able to return to full time employment, will become embittered and with nothing left to lose commit at best petty crimes and at worst mass murder.

We don't need them back and we should be doing our utmost to keep them where they are. Strip them of their citizenship and let the Syrian and Iraqis deal with them because that's where there crimes were committed. And let the most moderate pass a citizenship test which includes for women shaking hands with a man who is not a relative.

can't be done, not going to happen. nobody will be doing the west's dirty work, western terrorists will be going back to the west. you will need to except this as many of us have had to do.

123balltv · 19-02-2019 3:30pm

Security wise how would officers keep track of her in public if in full burka

ToBeFrank123 · 19-02-2019 3:34pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm afraid they are the west's problem as the west is where they came from.

islamophobia is a word and a recognized term. designed for those who don't simply stick to criticizing oppression etc, but use those issues to attack all muslims.

can't be done, not going to happen. nobody will be doing the west's dirty work, western terrorists will be going back to the west. you will need to except this as many of us have had to do.

That's generally not how crimes are prosecuted and well you know it.

If you or I committed a serious crime in the US, we would not be tried in Ireland for the crime. We'd be tried in the US if captured there or extradited if we left the country.

Generally you are tried where the crime is committed and where the local police or prosecutors are doing the investigation. And also where most of the witnesses and hard evidence is.

So bringing them home to the west where there are no witnesses, no evidence and no-one to investigate seriously the crimes is laughable and well you know it. They'd be released for lack of evidence onto Western European streets.

Investigate and punish them where they committed the crimes which is the middle east. The victims of ISIS at least deserve that. And if they committed crimes against humanity in the region they should be punished accordingly.

But letting them return here freely as you propose is not going to happen.

I personally would love to see a Yazidi lynch mob impose justice on some of these thugs. I do think the West should support the Yazidi's and Kurds in imposing justice and the Kurds have said they are not against doing this if helped by the west and if Turkey doesn't attack them in the meantime.

end of the road · 19-02-2019 3:37pm

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Return to sender.

that is exactly what is happening. they are being returned to sender, IE their countries of birth.

malinheader wrote: »

I would say so. Even the piece ohnoontgmail put up seems a joke if this is classed as justice.
These people are going to be a worse threat than when they left.
People keep stating the fact that they cannot stop her going back but surely anyone in power with sense would surely have to try and bring in something to stop this madness to protect there own citizens.
People might not agree with me but I would be making sure they couldn't get back.no matter what it meant.

you can bring in whatever you like to try and stop them. international law trumps it.

malinheader · 19-02-2019 3:40pm

end of the road wrote: »

that is exactly what is happening. they are being returned to sender, IE their countries of birth.

you can bring in whatever you like to try and stop them. international law trumps it.

But why. If I committed crimes in say, France, Columbia, USA or China would I not be jailed in the countries in which I committed the crimes.

19-02-2019 3:41pm

I know this is a really far fetched idea but as a Londoner, I don’t want her near any of my family and friends so is it possible to issue her with a barring order? I’m not familiar with the ins and outs of them. Then send her to some far flung island to live out her days.

red petal · 19-02-2019 3:44pm

I can't see one reason why she should be allowed to return.

She is not a vulnerable 15yr old. She is an extremist with no regret and knew exactly what she was doing.

ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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