Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:56pm

Odhinn wrote: »

...seeing as they fill them whenever they think the "Grass" needs mowing, its a bit of a PR exercise.

Its real money honey. I think you are paranoid.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:57pm

Odhinn wrote: »

He is rather a loathsome fecker, tis true.

My dad said he would spit on him!
He also said Travellers should be put in concentration camps!

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:59pm

Odhinn wrote: »

He is rather a loathsome fecker, tis true.

As regards Israel and Palestine. All i want for Israelis and Palestinians is peace happiness and prosperity.

I don't know the way or what form it will take. But i don't want to feed anymore hatred between them.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 8:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

As regards Israel and Palestine. All i want for Israelis and Palestinians is peace happiness and prosperity.

I don't know the way or what form it will take. But i don't want to feed anymore hatred between them.

There's quite enough of that as it is, certainly. Unfortunately American backing of Israel means nothing will change, except perhaps for the worst.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:09pm

Odhinn wrote: »

There's quite enough of that as it is, certainly. Unfortunately American backing of Israel means nothing will change, except perhaps for the worst.

Well there is a ceasefire now not organized by the west but by the middle east itself. Lets hope.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 8:12pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well there is a ceasefire now not organized by the west but by the middle east itself. Lets hope.

A ceasefire with Hamas, the minority faction, controlling only Gaza. Nothing done about settlement expansion, the treatment of the occupied population and so on.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:15pm

Odhinn wrote: »

A ceasefire with Hamas, the minority faction, controlling only Gaza. Nothing done about settlement expansion, the treatment of the occupied population and so on.

Its a start. And hamas is an obstacle to peace the PA is not really.

They are much more reasonable.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 8:18pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its a start. And hamas is an obstacle to peace the PA is not really.

They are much more reasonable.

Hamas are just the current excuse. Before that it was Arafat. Before that again it was that the PLO was "communist". Should Hamas vanish overnight a fresh excuse will be there in the morning.

The PA is essentially a bribed and corrupt organisation, run by Abbas. His sons are, by all accounts, taking every advantage and penny they can.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:29pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The PA is essentially a bribed and corrupt organisation, run by Abbas. His sons are, by all accounts, taking every advantage and penny they can.

That's an unfortunate truth. Hamas are just as corrupt though. There is not a lot Israel can do about that.

Hamas are just the current excuse. Before that it was Arafat. Before that again it was that the PLO was "communist". Should Hamas vanish overnight a fresh excuse will be there in the morning.

The Palestine Liberation Organization was really about pan arab nationalism. It burnt its bridges in the middle east after it tried to overthrow the Hashemite monarchy and failed (the Jordanian royal family ). They also further created their fate with their failed insurgency in the Lebannon. The PLO is considered one of the key contributors to the Lebanese civil war.

If Israel had befriended the PLO it would have offended their Arab neighbors whom the PLO had attempted to overthrow and they had only just created a fragile peace with them.

Now whatever you think of these neighbors etc and their regimes is besides the point ...if they are your neighbors etc you have to live with them.

mikemac2 · 10-05-2019 8:30pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The basis for anti semetism is often connected to ideas about palestine particularly ireland.

.

Could they not find a bit of waste ground for that bonfire??

It’s beside a row of terraced houses at 00:30 ! Their houses could go up in flames and I don’t believe their insurance will be paying out

A bonfire yeah sure, what Nordies do but how thick can you be to burn up your own community

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:35pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

Could they not find a bit of waste ground for that bonfire??

It’s beside a row of terraced houses at 00:30 ! Their houses could go up in flames and I don’t their insurance will be paying out

A bonfire yeah sure, what Nordies do but how thick can you be to burn up your own community

I dont get it on either side of the community. I just dont get it.
Obv the other side have theirs too ....they burn my flag ..the irish flag and maybe the palestinian flag ....who knows why they prob couldn't point to palestine on a map

Obv mostly Northern Irish people whether Unionist or Irish are 'normal' and by normal i mean the extremists probably call them freaks because their views are so warped. I have noticed that. 'What you're Irish but not EXTREME NATIONALIST?? YOU FREAK''.

biko · 10-05-2019 8:52pm

I will pretty much always stand with Jews. Like I will for gays and women.
People who do wrong against Jews, gays or women are not good people.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 9:04pm

biko wrote: »

I will pretty much always stand with Jews. Like I will for gays and women.
People who do wrong against Jews, gays or women are not good people.

I will stand with muslims and palestinians too i will stand for everyone's rights!

The same people who dislike muslims dislike jews.

Igotadose · 10-05-2019 9:32pm

Wouldn't it be grand if there were a discussion of European antisemitism that didn't devolve into CT about Israel and Israeli bashing?

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 10:08pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Wouldn't it be grand if there were a discussion of European antisemitism that didn't devolve into CT about Israel and Israeli bashing?

True. But some of the anti-semitism involved people who support palestine.

It would be great to talk about their anti semitism without talking about their support for palestine.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 10:11pm

Lets talk about Orban whom the Tories support.

Or how 41 % of Germany's jews say they have received harassment in the past year.

With 28% saying they have been physically harassed in the past year.

https://euobserver.com/political/143655

Then you have the Tree of Life synagogue shooting in Pittsbugh.

You have the Poway shooting of the chabad centre in San Diego.

Its not just Europe.

In France there was a surge in anti Semitic attacks some as serious as murder.

There were protests about it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47300117

Danzy · 10-05-2019 10:24pm

Opponents of Corbyn are using this for their own objectives.

He and Labour provide a never ending stream for them though.

I have no doubt he is an anti Semite. I don't really see how one cannot.

So while there are differing motivations for some, there remains a very significant antisemitism problem in Labour and with Jeremy Corbyn.

Kermit.de.frog · 10-05-2019 10:32pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't know the way or what form it will take.

The form it could take is for Israel to stop the systemic theft and confiscation of land from a weaker people?

This might go some way to easing at least some of the problems highlighted in this thread.

Danzy · 10-05-2019 10:40pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The form it could take is for Israel to stop the systemic theft and confiscation of land from a weaker people?

This might go some way to easing at least some of the problems highlighted in this thread.

It won't.

People like Corbyn and co. hated Jews long before Israel, they will hate them long after it.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 10:59pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The form it could take is for Israel to stop the systemic theft and confiscation of land from a weaker people?

This might go some way to easing at least some of the problems highlighted in this thread.

That is a highly misleading map.

There was never a state called Palestine in the 40s much less with defined borders. Several arab leaders made pacts with Hitler.

Hitler convinced the Arab world they had a common enemy with Jews.

It was actually Nazi policy to deport German and eastern European jews to palestine they doubled the Palestinian Jewish population.

The muftis and sheikhs supported the Nazis esp their the anti-Jewish boycott. They didn't like the Jewish refugees but they tolerated them to suit Hitler.

Even before this there had been Arab massacres of jews in Hebron in 1929.

Systematic violence began in early 1920 with murderous assaults by groups of local Arabs against settlements in the north and by Muslim pilgrims against Jerusalem’s Jews. Again in 1921, Arab rioters attacked Jews in Jaffa and its environs. The primary agitator behind these attacks was Haj Amin al Husseini, who marshalled Arab discontent over Jewish immigration into violent riots. Below is Haj Amin Al Husseni sitting with another agitator of the mass murder of jews.

With hitlers continued deportation of jews to palestine the jewish population grew. The systematic arab violence continued until eventually palestinian Jews demanded their own state.

It was divided between Arabs and Jews. The moment this happened the entire Arab world attacked Israel and deported all of their jews to wait for it...yeah israel.

I hate to tell you this but facism appeals to some people in the arab world. And the fact that hamas shoots gay people and the PA and the PLO hate them... might indicate it still does.

I dont know how you expect israel to deal with the issue but i don't think ireland would be so tolerant.

But why are you justifying anti semitism with things Israel has done or not done? Jews outside of Israel have nothing to do with Israel.

Peoples opinions on jews are informed by hundreds of years of anti Semitic propaganda from various states and christians.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:06pm

I am not discussing Israel and Palestine in here.

An anti Semitic cartoon is an anti Semitic cartoon though.

biko · 10-05-2019 11:08pm

Some people today get mixed up about Jews/Israelis.

Mixing Jews up with Israelis makes some people attack Jewish people on the streets of Europe and then blame it on the Israel/Palestine conflict

It's like blaming all the Muslims for the stupid **** the Saudis get up to.

Igotadose · 10-05-2019 11:21pm

biko wrote: »

Some people today get mixed up about Jews/Israelis.

Mixing Jews up with Israelis makes some people attack Jewish people on the streets of Europe and then blame it on the Israel/Palestine conflict

It's like blaming all the Muslims for the stupid **** the Saudis get up to.

It's whataboutery designed to reinforce the lie these antisemites on this thread tell themselves, I.e. they're not antisemites. BUT ISRAEL....

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:21pm

biko wrote: »

Some people today get mixed up about Jews/Israelis.

Mixing Jews up with Israelis makes some people attack Jewish people on the streets of Europe and then blame it on the Israel/Palestine conflict

It's like blaming all the Muslims for the stupid **** the Saudis get up to.

Saudi is progressing. Its changing. They are allowing women to drive.

Its criminal justice system is highly flawed etc. And they have human rights issues.

But they are reforming.

On the one hand the war in Yemin is pushing yeminites to the brink of famine. On the other hand the saudis were asked to intervene by the President of Yemin Mansur Hadi. And the Houthi movement has committed terrible war crimes.

I can't claim to understand it all.

I wouldn't even blame saudis for what the Saudi govt does. I wouldn't even say saudi is all bad ..its not. Its mixed.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:23pm

I think the Arab world is done with religious political leaders. I sense a shift.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:23pm

Igotadose wrote: »

It's whataboutery designed to reinforce the lie these antisemites on this thread tell themselves, I.e. they're not antisemites. BUT ISRAEL....

Its easy to get sucked into.

Wibbs · 10-05-2019 11:36pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

But why are you justifying anti semitism with things Israel has done or not done? Jews outside of Israel have nothing to do with Israel.

I'd mostly agree with you on that IL, save for Americans who are Jewish. They remind me of those Irish Americans when the Troubles were kicking off here, full of some weird rose tinted and simplistic take on the situation in the "homeland" and eager to buy into the BS of those who are happy to foster that ignorance for their own ends.

Wibbs · 10-05-2019 11:40pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Saudi is progressing. Its changing. They are allowing women to drive.

Its criminal justice system is highly flawed etc. And they have human rights issues.

But they are reforming.

They are IL, but by God it's slow and I have the cynical feeling much of it is... well, cynical on their part and more about optics.

I can't claim to understand it all.

I reckon you've just summed up the narrative of the rest of us to that clusterfcuk that is and has long been that part of the world.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:43pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd mostly agree with you on that IL, save for Americans who are Jewish. They remind me of those Irish Americans when the Troubles were kicking off here, full of some weird rose tinted and simplistic take on the situation in the "homeland" and eager to buy into the BS of those who are happy to foster that ignorance for their own ends.

In a lot of instances you are correct. But the exact same is true of Palestinian activists. I would argue on their side it's even more true.

Also Israel is literally the USA's only true ally in the middle east.

Israel also has a majoy espionage system all over the middle east which is far better than the USA's. It shares a lot with the USA.

Israel is also a major buyer of American arms and therefore a desirable customer.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:44pm

Wibbs wrote: »

They are IL, but by God it's slow and I have the cynical feeling much of it is... well, cynical on their part and more about optics.

I reckon you've just summed up the narrative of the rest of us to that clusterfcuk that is and has long been that part of the world.

Its chaos ...its not like Europe.

American support for Israel has not been ....selfless ...and often been worse for Israel in the longterm in that its not impartial to both sides.

When the solution comes if it ever does. It might not please the US or Europe. It only needs to work for the people there.

Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

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