Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

Squatter

blackwhite wrote: »

Who said anything about banning books?

This is about Jeremy Corbin volunteering a ringing endorsement to promote a new publication of the book - which was written by a prominent anti-Semite and pushes a number or anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

No surprise that you are so eager to straw man though - anything to deflect from anti-semitism being highlighted

Well said! For the record, the tosspot spells it Corbyn.


As an aside, it appears to me that there isn't really much difference between Corbyn drooling all over an anti-Semitic book and Israel Folau drooling over some bit of the Old Testament that sends gays and fornicators to hell!

But - for some - the heathen Corbyn is a saint; whereas the God-worshipping Folau is the Anti-Christ. Go figure!

Igotadose

Squatter wrote: »

Well said! For the record, the tosspot spells it Corbyn.


As an aside, it appears to me that there isn't really much difference between Corbyn drooling all over an anti-Semitic book and Israel Folau drooling over some bit of the Old Testament that sends gays and fornicators to hell!

But - for some - the heathen Corbyn is a saint; whereas the God-worshipping Folau is the Anti-Christ. Go figure!

Corbyn might be PM some day and make decisions with world-affecting impact.
He already influences them through his role as the leader of his party.

Isn't Folau an athlete? Not equivalent

conorhal

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And this is despite the massive spotlight on the issue and pledges to clampdown

There is so much boiling under the surface in that party it's like they can't keep a lid on it for 5 minutes.

Jewish population in the UK, just over quater of a million.
Muslim population of the UK, 2.7 million.


You do the math on which group Labour think it might be most profitable to pander to. This is a party that has whole heartedly embraced Islamism to the point they've put on gender segregated meetings to appease that base. A little gaslighting anti-semitism to appeal to the muslim vote is par for the course in Labour politics these days. Just look at Ken Livingstone who regularly spouts anti-semetic rhetoric because his Tower Hamlets voter base practically demands it.

Squatter

Igotadose wrote: »

Isn't Folau an athlete? Not equivalent

For some people sport is much more important than either religion or politics!

But I agree with you that the deranged Corbyn may some day be elected to pilot the SS Great Britain straight onto the rocks. Hopefully the captain will go down with his ship.

Danzy

It is down to the growth in identity politics,same as all white people we are told enjoy "white privilege" are inherently racist, white societies being white supremacist societies.

There is a follow on for many in the modern left that the Jews are an embodiment of imperialistic capitalism in an ethnic group. Capitalism as a race.

Danzy

Just posting exceptionally off examples, not the day to day stuff.

Labour activist and Cllr in England who believes the Jews declared war on Germany in 1933.

Naturally she has the backing of her local party and MP.

Their local party Secretary hosted an evening with a prominent holocaust denier.

It is the modern Labour party so no one takes notice, just another day, but it should not be ignored because it is so normalized but challenged even more for that.

Billy86

What is this councillor's name?

It wouldnt surprise me much, Corbyn is seemingly a bit of a master at consistently making a hames of their election chances.

Danzy

Billy86 wrote: »

What is this councillor's name?

It wouldnt surprise me much, Corbyn is seemingly a bit of a master at consistently making a hames of their election chances.

Rachel Abbotts

Don't worry if you missed it, there are fresh ones very regularly.

James Brown

There's more nobbling of Corbyn than actual anti-semetism going on here. There's a definite bias and it's not related to anti-semetism, but it's nice mud to throw. If it wasn't anti-semetism it would be something else.

Billy86

Danzy wrote: »

Rachel Abbotts

Don't worry if you missed it, there are fresh ones very regularly.

I hadn't heard of her, it seems she addressed it and the replies seem to (rightly from what I can tell) be calling bullsh*t.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rachel_abbotts/status/1126115805131956226

WinnyThePoo

Billy86 wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

Rachel Abbotts

Don't worry if you missed it, there are fresh ones very regularly.

I hadn't heard of her, it seems she addressed it and the replies seem to (rightly from what I can tell) be calling bullsh*t.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rachel_abbotts/status/1126115805131956226

If only some people on this thread had your googlin' skills.

blackwhite

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There's more nobbling of Corbyn than actual anti-semetism going on here. There's a definite bias and it's not related to anti-semetism, but it's nice mud to throw. If it wasn't anti-semetism it would be something else.

Indeed.

Writing the foreword for, and giving effusive praise for, a re-issuance of book that was written by a high-profile anti-semite, that claims the Jews control the world banking system and the media, and the Jewish controlled "agents" were a background force pushing for imperial colonialism - amazing that anyone would think that to be a hint of anti-semitic leanings :rolleyes:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/corbyn-endorsed-book-about-jews-controlling-banks-and-the-press-x6nd73jrq


Funny how big the blind spot certain folk have for any transgressions once the perpetrator aligns with their political views.

ILoveYourVibes

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There's more nobbling of Corbyn than actual anti-semetism going on here. There's a definite bias and it's not related to anti-semetism, but it's nice mud to throw. If it wasn't anti-semetism it would be something else.

Its anti-semitism.

Its nothing to do with Palestine. I've Palestinians they would never speak like this.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/swathe-of-antisemitic-abuse-is-uncovered-at-group-backed-by-jeremy-corbyn-a4136681.html


This not by Palestinians this by white christian people who have joined a lobby group.

Most Israelis ironically are Mizrahim meaning they are not white but actually Arab Jews they are traditionally the most nationalist and right wing Israelis. They speak Arabic a lot at home as well as hewbrew and share a lot of Arab culture. And the Ashkenazi (european Jews ) are more leftest and less nationalist.

Some mizrahim are from north Africa some from the middle east etc.

I've heard these white christian activists say they want all israelis to go back to where they came from etc. Well over half or them are from the middle east etc Syria Yemen place they were kicked out of.


Even palestinians see Mizrahi and Ashkenazi differently.

BTW if you call a mizrahi jew an arab jew they might actually be offended at this stage.

Palestinian activists usually have not got a clue about what palestinians want. They think Palestine wants a 2 state solution. That is what Israel wants. Palestinians want a one giant bi national state.

I have no idea what the solution will look like. But I feel solidarity between Palestinians and Israelis for peace is growing.

The west should butt out they have made a mess of everything in that area and CLEARLY know nothing about it.

Now having said all this the Tories are anti Semitic too.

ILoveYourVibes

blackwhite wrote: »

Funny how big the blind spot certain folk have for any transgressions once the perpetrator aligns with their political views.

I see anti-semitism on both sides and tolerance on both sides.


Its a consistent law of politics.


I feel the west is very ignorant about the middle east though. They assume its like Europe with clear defined nationalities in each state.


Europe doesn't want jews in Europe nor do they want Jews in Israel.

That's the truth.

To be anti Israeli is different to opposing certain things about Israeli foreign policy in a very complex conflict.

Just like being anti British is different to being anti British foreign policy on some issues.

Very few of these activists seem aware that israel GAVE BACK gaza to palestine.

They withdrew the army and dismantles ALL israeli settlements in gaza it was called the "Hitnatkut".

Anyway they have reached a ceasefire. Eygpt is going to enforce it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+palestine+ceasefire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

I dunno what the UK wants.

If hundreds of rockets were fired into the UK causing schools to close and everyone had to go into bomb shelters every time sirens went off i don't know what the UK would do.

Public bomb shelters are a common site all around israel they are built by the govt. Frequently buildings are destroyed by rockets. And Israelis and Palestinians die.

No one wants peace more than Israel. I know that Palestinians want it too.

I know that Palestinians have suffered too. Everyone just wants it to end.


This is Israel this is what Israelis have to live with every day every week.

If everyone could highlight and praise the ceasefire efforts it might encourage both sides.

No one seems to be talking about it.

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Very few of these activists seem aware that israel GAVE BACK gaza to palestine.

They withdrew the army and dismantles ALL israeli settlements in gaza it was called the "Hitnatkut".

............

It took roughly 30,000 troops to guard a settler population of about 8,000. As a result the decision was taken to concentrate efforts on the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem and the Golan. This had the added bonus of wrong footing the Palestinians politically.



"A top Israeli official has claimed that Ariel Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan was deliberately formulated to block peace negotiations with Yasser Arafat."



"When you freeze [the peace] process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the [Palestinian] refugees, the borders and Jerusalem."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3720176.stm

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

This is Israel this is what Israelis have to live with every day every week.

1 - no, it isn't. Take a look at the death tolls for an idea of whose really on the receiving end.

2 - Israel - by building colonies for its citizens in the West Bank etc - is the aggressor. There's no if buts or maybes.

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

It took roughly 30,000 troops to guard a settler population of about 8,000. As a result the decision was taken to concentrate efforts on the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem and the Golan. This had the added bonus of wrong footing the Palestinians politically.



"A top Israeli official has claimed that Ariel Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan was deliberately formulated to block peace negotiations with Yasser Arafat."



"When you freeze [the peace] process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the [Palestinian] refugees, the borders and Jerusalem."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3720176.stm







1 - no, it isn't. Take a look at the death tolls for an idea of whose really on the receiving end.

2 - Israel - by building colonies for its citizens in the West Bank etc - is the aggressor. There's no if buts or maybes.

The above is a strange conspiracy idea that makes no sense. Why would the Israelis WANT hamas to gain power you think they like being killed?



That is because Israelis build bomb shelters for their people and they play sirens. Hamas doesn't let people leave and gives them no warning.

They withdrew from gaza and were attacked. So its clear if they withdraw from the west bank they will be attacked.

White Christian Palestinian activists. 'We want Israel to end the occupation of Gaza ' Israel ends the occupation of gaza. The PA proves it cannot govern gaza. White Christian Palestinian activists 'THIS IS ISRAEL'S FAULT'.

By that reasoning you should be arguing Israel should govern ALL of Palestine then.

Its clear the PA nor Hamas can.

You realize that Israel has to even collect tax for the Palestinian govt?

The death toll disparity is not due to agression levels on either side. Its the level of extreme effort that israel goes to protect EVERY LEVEL of its society equally from the conflict,EVEN PALESTINIANS LIVING IN Israel and the level to which the PA and Hamas puts its own people at risk.

What do you think also of the new ceasefire and the fact that Eygpt is going to enforce it?

Do you think Hamas will keep to it or play to manipulate?

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The above is a strange conspiracy idea that makes no sense. Why would the Israelis WANT hamas to gain power you think they like being killed?

I posted an article quoting an Israeli official, you might read it. You might then reflect on how the "peace process" has essentially been frozen ever since, as was predicted by said official.



Where did I say anything about Hamas, or Hamas coming to power...?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

T
That is because Israelis build bomb shelters for their people and they play sirens. Hamas doesn't let people leave and gives them no warning.

...when they attack. Again, you might look at the rate of deaths on a yearly basis to see who is really attacking who.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They withdrew from gaza and were attacked. So its clear if they withdraw from the west bank they will be attacked.

They withdrew their colonies/settlements from Gaza. They still control its borders, what goes in and out etc. Essentially its an open air prison in many ways.

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

You realize that Israel has to even collect tax for the Palestinian govt?

They do so to help maintain control over the "palestinian authority". It's often witheld to get them to toe the line on one issue or another.

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

I posted an article quoting an Israeli official, you might read it. You might then reflect on how the "peace process" has essentially been frozen ever since, as was predicted by said official.



Where did I say anything about Hamas, or Hamas coming to power...?








...when they attack. Again, you might look at the rate of deaths on a yearly basis to see who is really attacking who.






They withdrew their colonies/settlements from Gaza. They still control its borders, what goes in and out etc. Essentially its an open air prison in many ways.




They do so to help maintain control over the "palestinian authority". It's often witheld to get them to toe the line on one issue or another.

They allow goods and people to cross daily they just need a permit.

What about the Egyptian border and the fact that Egypt occupies the west bank?

Dov Weisglass is not a reliable source he was only an official for a couple of months. And that was years after the withdrawal.

He also denies a lot of what he says sometimes and goes back on what he says.

I don't give his opinion much credit.

Also if what he says is true. Then you are saying Palestinians can never really have their own state. And that it would basically go the way of Syria and Afghanistan etc. Which is what most Israelis think anyway.


I presume then you want a one bi national state in which Israeli civil service structures etc serve the entire area? Only its called palestine. Which is really what Palestinians want.

James Brown

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its anti-semitism.

Its nothing to do with Palestine. I've Palestinians they would never speak like this.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/swathe-of-antisemitic-abuse-is-uncovered-at-group-backed-by-jeremy-corbyn-a4136681.html


This not by Palestinians this by white christian people who have joined a lobby group.

Most Israelis ironically are Mizrahim meaning they are not white but actually Arab Jews they are traditionally the most nationalist and right wing Israelis. They speak Arabic a lot at home as well as hewbrew and share a lot of Arab culture. And the Ashkenazi (european Jews ) are more leftest and less nationalist.

Some mizrahim are from north Africa some from the middle east etc.

I've heard these white christian activists say they want all israelis to go back to where they came from etc. Well over half or them are from the middle east etc Syria Yemen place they were kicked out of.


Even palestinians see Mizrahi and Ashkenazi differently.

...

Palestinian activists usually have not got a clue about what palestinians want. They think Palestine wants a 2 state solution. That is what Israel wants. Palestinians want a one giant bi national state.

I have no idea what the solution will look like. But I feel solidarity between Palestinians and Israelis for peace is growing.

The west should butt out they have made a mess of everything in that area and CLEARLY know nothing about it.

Now having said all this the Tories are anti Semitic too.

I thought we were talking anti-semetism and centering on Jeremy Corbyn? I never mentioned Palestine or Israel in the comment.
Israel is a rogue criminal state by action and design. You can be anti Israeli policy without being anti-semetic. Palestine needs the world to butt in IMO, lest they be wiped out completely.
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution.

Back to my point, there's more anti-corbyn than a genuine care or outrage for anti-semetism in many of the comments. Is Corbyn a serious threat to Jews? I don't think so. I'd be looking at Britain First and the like. Once they run out of visible minorities to hate they'll concentrate on others.

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They allow goods and people to cross daily they just need a permit.

What about the Egyptian border and the fact that Egypt occupies the west bank?

Dov Weisglass is not a reliable source he was only an official for a couple of months. And that was years after the withdrawal.

He also denies a lot of what he says sometimes and goes back on what he says.

I don't give his opinion much credit.

Also if what he says is true. Then you are saying Palestinians can never really have their own state. And that it would basically go the way of Syria and Afghanistan etc. Which is what most Israelis think anyway.


I presume then you want a one bi national state in which Israeli civil service structures etc serve the entire area? Only its called palestine. Which is really what Palestinians want.

I believe that the Palestinians will be allowed small pockets of land in the West Bank where they can - in name at least - "self govern". Effectively they will be like the bantustans in the old apartheid era south africa - places to coral the "natives" and act as a source of cheap labour.



.......hardly bi-national state if Israel governs all of it. A single state solution is a non-runner for a few reasons, not the least of which is the fact that virtually every israeli party is against the notion.

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

I posted an article quoting an Israeli official, you might read it. You might then reflect on how the "peace process" has essentially been frozen ever since, as was predicted by said official.



Where did I say anything about Hamas, or Hamas coming to power...?








...when they attack. Again, you might look at the rate of deaths on a yearly basis to see who is really attacking who.






They withdrew their colonies/settlements from Gaza. They still control its borders, what goes in and out etc. Essentially its an open air prison in many ways.




They do so to help maintain control over the "palestinian authority". It's often witheld to get them to toe the line on one issue or another.

True. Usually after Hamas bombs them. Its still not helpful though.

Both parties agreed to the paris protocol.

But the PA /Hamas also starves its people rather do something it had already agreed to. It refuses to take the money sometimes when the govt feels insulted. IMO Israelis need to at least on an official level be more diplomatic more respectful honor is important to Palestine.

Also Israel never WANTED to collect tax for palestine its part of the Paris Protocol.

Israel WANTS Palestine to have its own totally independent state it just doesn't want to be attacked.

ILoveYourVibes

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I thought we were talking anti-semetism and centering on Jeremy Corbyn? I never mentioned Palestine or Israel in the comment.
Israel is a rogue criminal state by action and design. You can be anti Israeli policy without being anti-semetic. Palestine needs the world to butt in IMO, lest they be wiped out completely.
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution.

Back to my point, there's more anti-corbyn than a genuine care or outrage for anti-semetism in many of the comments. Is Corbyn a serious threat to Jews? I don't think so. I'd be looking at Britain First and the like. Once they run out of visible minorities to hate they'll concentrate on others.

The basis for anti semetism is often connected to ideas about palestine particularly ireland.

.30 'The only thing Hitler did wrong was Hitler didn't kill enough jews.' This is a Palestine supporter in Northern Ireland.

Of course you can be critical of Israel without being anti Semitic. Its rare i find that in these groups though. They seem more like hate groups.

I'm critical of Israel. I am no Bebe fan.

But I also see things that Israel has done that have been an olive branch to Palestinians. I see things in a more balanced way.

Its like Northern Ireland. There is no right side.

Its a conflict that needs resolution.

I feel some of the ideas towards Israel are anti antisemitism. Not all but some.

Ideas about the Jewish religion have been rather well warped for centuries in Europe.

Its fair to say some people 'supporting' palestine don't care about Palestinians.

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

.............

Israel WANTS Palestine to have its own totally independent state it just doesn't want to be attacked.

Israel wants large sections of the West Bank etc, without the Palestinians that live on or use that land. They'd be happy enough to shove the remainder into what they don't want and turn it into another Gaza.

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The basis for anti semetism is often connected to ideas about palestine particularly ireland.

.30 'The only thing Hitler did wrong was Hitler didn't kill enough jews.' This is a Palestine supporter in Northern Ireland.

Of course you can be critical of Israel without being anti Semitic. Its rare i find that in these groups though. They seem more like hate groups.

I'm critical of Israel. I am no Bebe fan.

But I also see things that Israel has done that have been an olive branch to Palestinians. I see things in a more balanced way.

Its like Northern Ireland. There is no right side.

Its a conflict that needs resolution.

1 - Name them


2 - Israel is aggressively colonising outside its borders - it's therefore morally, legally in the wrong. It's not a matter of debate.

ILoveYourVibes

Anti Semitism comes from the left and the right.

You have Gemma O'Doherty and Peter Casey etc. I am sure Gemma O'Doherty would like to deport Irish jews as well as non white Irish people (which she stated recently)


The Irish Jewish Representative council made an official complaint against Peter Casey i feel it was ignored tbh by the media.


The orthodox dublin shul is constantly being attacked. It has a swastika painted on it recently. The security guard has been attacked several times.

There was bloodied baby shoes left there once.


I feel like many people dont think you can be Irish and Jewish.

People will say to me 'Ah but you are not from a catholic family'.

I went to this Irish music course once. I was like 12 and really interested in Irish culture.

It turned out it was run by YOUTH DEFENSE who have neo nazi ties.

I was told 'Ireland is a catholic country' Ireland for the Irish had a twisted subtle definition.


I didn't know I was being taught Irish culture by Niamh Nic Mhathúna who is a violently anti Semitic Christian.

She is along the lines of Meghan Mc Cain. Basically a christian supremacist.

She had stuff published in Anti semitic magazines asking for money in the UK. And people from Youth defense have gone to meet actual nazis in Germany and fascists in Italy.


And i ended up in this Irish music course. I felt bullied. I was once marched around the entire school complex it was taught in by this really intimidating man.

When I was young this girl i used to know kept using the phrase 'Scabby Jew' on a daily basis. I would never say anything. Then one day she made friends with this new girl who i knew was jewish. And she said it. Then the new girl who knew i was jewish looked at me. I felt so guilty. And turned to her and said 'Why do you say that Im Jewish'. Her answer was 'Its just what i say i don't mean anything by it'.

People have used Vermin terminology to describe my family or jews in general. Although i haven't heard it much since i was a kid.

Jehovah witnesses used to serial call to our door. We have a mezuzah so they must know.

People used to call my family things like rats ..or write horrible stuff on my school books. ( I didn't go to stratford i went to a state school) they didn't have a junior school anyway then.


I tend to stay away from certain people i feel will think like that. I try NOT to be over sensitive though.

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Anti Semitism comes from the left and the right.

You have Gemma O'Doherty and Peter Casey etc. I am sure Gemma O'Doherty would like to deport Irish jews as well as non white Irish people (which she stated recently)


The Irish Jewish Representative council made an official complaint against Peter Casey i feel it was ignored tbh by the media.


...............

Doherty is clearly a anti-semite, but what did Casey say?

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

1 - Name them


2 - Israel is aggressively colonising outside its borders - it's therefore morally, legally in the wrong. It's not a matter of debate.

They give humanitarian aid.

Israel builds hospitals in Palestine literally. They are helping to reconstruct Gaza.

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Peace/Humanitarian/Pages/Reconstruction-in-Gaza.aspx

https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/humanitarian/pages/default.aspx

The israeli govt brings israeli doctors to Palestine to help patients.

There is an IDF unit that's sole purpose is to bring medical aid to palestinians

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Peace/Humanitarian/Pages/IDF-unit-to-provide-medical-care-to-Palestinians-9-Jul-2015.aspx

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They give humanitarian aid.

Israel builds hospitals in Palestine literally.

https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/humanitarian/pages/default.aspx

...seeing as they fill them whenever they think the "Grass" needs mowing, its a bit of a PR exercise.

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

Doherty is clearly a anti-semite, but what did Casey say?

'Jews basically live in the White House'

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

'Jews basically live in the White House'

He is rather a loathsome fecker, tis true.