Tesla Supercharger network in Ireland

wassie · 04-05-2021 9:49pm

zg3409 wrote: »

No.
They are all coming soon 2021...I would not hold your breath.

Lies.....

.....Athenry Target opening in 2022

wassie · 04-05-2021 9:51pm

unkel wrote: »

Or 56
Linky

Or 62

Linky

Wow. Driving in there if it was busy in a white M3 SR+ would make me feel like I was in a Corolla.

innrain · 19-05-2021 11:09am

innrain wrote: »

The new application for Supercharger @ Sandyford
https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dunlaoghaire/application-details/89027
Decision date due May 20th

Permission granted. My new local

unkel · 19-05-2021 11:58am

See you there innrain on our weekly free charge. The free coffee, drinks and snacks there are pretty decent too

And if you're bored you can race a Model 3 Performance over the Wicklow mountains for a bit. For free, naturally.

jusmeig · 19-05-2021 12:01pm

unkel wrote: »

See you there innrain on our weekly free charge. The free coffee, drinks and snacks there are pretty decent too

And if you're bored you can race a Model 3 Performance over the Wicklow mountains for a bit. For free, naturally.

It's free?

innrain · 19-05-2021 12:05pm

jusmeig wrote: »

It's free?

Free for some, cheap for others

ELM327 · 19-05-2021 12:33pm

jusmeig wrote: »

It's free?

Free if you have free supercharging

slave1 · 19-05-2021 12:43pm

innrain wrote: »

Permission granted. My new local

Great news but with just the 4 stalls I'd say it will be jammers with all the local free supercharging bunch.
Roll on more Superchargers!!!

ELM327 · 19-05-2021 12:51pm

I'd go as much for the coffee and eyeballing teslas as I would for the free charging!

cannco253 · 19-05-2021 1:13pm

I guess this might mean some of the 'free' chargers at lidl/dunnes might become more available now !

slave1 · 25-05-2021 7:29pm

Enfield status changed to "Conditional" with 8 conditions...

wassie · 25-05-2021 8:19pm

Going past there once a week at the moment as I daydream to when they finally are installed. Will be great for the Dublin-Galway commute and to be free of the ESB Ecars roulette / Ionity rip-off at the moment along that route.

Looking at the plan it shows 8 bays consisting of 6x Tesla charge points installed and 2x Type 2 points.

Any idea if these will be V3 chargers?

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 9:04am

Any update on when other car brands will be able to use Tesla super chargers?

·
Dec 21, 2020
Serious question: Why don't more electric car makers take up Tesla on their offer to use the Supercharging network? Incompatible tech? Hidden fees? Pride? There's gotta be a good reason.

Elon Musk
@elonmusk
They are, although it’s kind low-key. Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.

zg3409 · 26-05-2021 9:20am

cannco253 wrote: »

Any update on when other car brands will be able to use Tesla super chargers?

·
Dec 21, 2020
Serious question: Why don't more electric car makers take up Tesla on their offer to use the Supercharging network? Incompatible tech? Hidden fees? Pride? There's gotta be a good reason.

Elon Musk
@elonmusk
They are, although it’s kind low-key. Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.

I believe some in USA are allowed to some brands. Not mainstream.

I think its just bluff from Tesla. They could today offer it to general public in Europe. With the flick of a switch they could have an app that allowed any CCS car to use them. No need to do deals with brands. I assume they have set the price so high no one wants to take up their "offer"

They could give priority to tesla and tesla cars could pre-reserve the chargers once they are on the road. They have chosen not to do this.

In USA there is a connector standard issue.

Very little upside for Tesla

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 9:32am

How many superchargers have Tesla in Ireland now, if we include the Sandyford and Enfield proposed locations?
Roughly how many Tesla cars are in Ireland now that can use the superchargers?
Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

Just wondering on the above given how prominent the private network feature is pushed, and possibly considering one in the future.

ELM327 · 26-05-2021 9:44am

cannco253 wrote: »

How many superchargers have Tesla in Ireland now, if we include the Sandyford and Enfield proposed locations?
Roughly how many Tesla cars are in Ireland now that can use the superchargers?
Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

Just wondering on the above given how prominent the private network feature is pushed, and possibly considering one in the future.

No, but we the rollout of model 3s, I've had to share a stall.

markpb · 26-05-2021 9:49am

zg3409 wrote: »

They could today offer it to general public in Europe. With the flick of a switch they could have an app that allowed any CCS car to use them. No need to do deals with brands. I assume they have set the price so high no one wants to take up their "offer"

I’m not sure it’s as easy as that. SuCs appear to be quite dumb compared to DC chargers from other manufacturers. Most of the logic lives inside the car, not inside the charge point. This includes identifying the customer, deciding if they are allowed to charge and calculating the cost. It’s not insurmountable but probably not trivial either.

And like you say, there’s not much upside for Tesla at the minute.

ELM327 · 26-05-2021 9:52am

cannco253 wrote: »

Any update on when other car brands will be able to use Tesla super chargers?

·
Dec 21, 2020
Serious question: Why don't more electric car makers take up Tesla on their offer to use the Supercharging network? Incompatible tech? Hidden fees? Pride? There's gotta be a good reason.

Elon Musk
@elonmusk
They are, although it’s kind low-key. Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.

Hopefully never

unkel · 26-05-2021 10:07am

Why would Tesla want to allow other cars on their superior network that they built at great cost and effort? What's in it for them? They would be giving away what is arguably their biggest competitive advantage. I can't see it happen.

Although technically it must be fairly easy to do, as they demonstrated with the "stunt" of free charging for all at the V3 superchargers to coincide with Musk's visit to Diess last year. The billing adds another layer of complexity, but I'm sure it is well doable

ELM327 · 26-05-2021 10:11am

The billing would be complex, as there would need to be something to tell the charger to power up and charge.
Currently that's done by the car, as the units are dumb.

If there's an app built for this, then I can't imagine this is possible without additional hardware for the chargers. V3 it seems easy to do as the plug is the same as CCS (with a small difference but not enough to render it unusable for non Tesla cars) but the issue is there's a "tesla only" and a "free vend" option, there's no "bill a non tesla option". And that woudl be the challenge.

markpb · 26-05-2021 10:21am

unkel wrote: »

Why would Tesla want to allow other cars on their superior network that they built at great cost and effort? What's in it for them? They would be giving away what is arguably their biggest competitive advantage. I can't see it happen.

Over time, the value of the SuC network will diminish as other high-quality operators come along. Electricity America are (thanks to a generous donation from VW :-)) making great strides. Ionity are doing the same in Europe albeit with an unproven commercial model. Gridserve look promising in the UK. The EV market is still in its infancy. It’s impossible to believe that Tesla will be in the same position forever. When that happens, it’s likely that the SuC network will become a profit-centre for them or be sold to another operator.

Equally, it’s likely that governments will ban single-operator charging networks on the grounds that they’re an inefficient use of the electricity supply network.

wassie · 26-05-2021 10:31am

Also, no doubt the premium price you pay for a Tesla is related in part for access to exclusive charging infrastructure.

The fact is Tesla are the only manufacturer to invest in a charging network in parallel with designing & manufacturing EVs. The Ionity consortium is well developed, but clearly access is not equal across the EU for member manufacturers.

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 10:45am

"The fact is Tesla are the only manufacturer to invest in a charging network in parallel with designing & manufacturing EVs. "

Nissan did this with the Leaf in an albeit limited way when it was introduced and look where they are now. Not to mention that Tesla cars used to charge at Nissan Chademo locations.

I get the premium for the network, but I wonder how long it will last as markpb states. The competition is catching up especially in the UK, remains to be seen what will happen here.

The Technoking is a businessman at the end of the day and will always have an exit strategy, so it can only be a matter of when the network opens up not if.

So are we able to figure out how many Teslas are in the country?

AndyBoBandy · 26-05-2021 10:54am

cannco253 wrote: »

So are we able to figure out how many Teslas are in the country?

At a guess, I'd say at least 1,200 - 1,400 Model 3's, and another 200-300 Model S/X

AndyBoBandy · 26-05-2021 10:59am

cannco253 wrote: »

Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

I've used the superchargers about 10-12 times in 14 months....

On Sunday I pulled into Ballacolla Supercharger and it was the busiest I've ever seen a supercharger site........ 2 of the 8 stalls were in use, 3 when I plugged in.

when I came out of the shop with pizza 20 minutes later, the 2 other Model 3's had left, and a Model X was pulling in...

this was only the 2nd time I pulled into a Supercharger site that wasn't completely empty.... so I'd say we've a long way to go before we start seeing queues at them...

wassie · 26-05-2021 11:06am

I'd agree - maybe when country reopens fully and during those peak holiday periods such as bank holiday weekends, but even then I think it wouldn't last more than a couple of hours TBH.

cannco253 wrote: »

"The fact is Tesla are the only manufacturer to invest in a charging network in parallel with designing & manufacturing EVs. "

Nissan did this with the Leaf in an albeit limited way when it was introduced and look where they are now. Not to mention that Tesla cars used to charge at Nissan Chademo locations.

I get the premium for the network, but I wonder how long it will last as markpb states. The competition is catching up especially in the UK, remains to be seen what will happen here.

The Technoking is a businessman at the end of the day and will always have an exit strategy, so it can only be a matter of when the network opens up not if.?

I would say at the end of the day Musk is an engineer forced to become a businessman. He ultimately is driven by solving problems, not money. He has already signaled it may be opened up so that is not really up for debate, rather the when and how.

Tesla has succeeded where Nissan failed. Nissan didn't invest enough in a reliable fast-charging network. Owners were ultimately left stranded and reliant on a small number of third-party stations available to all.

innrain · 26-05-2021 11:27am

cannco253 wrote: »

So are we able to figure out how many Teslas are in the country?

Number of new registrations from stats.beepbeep.ie Not including the imported which for S/X would be a quite bigger %
Year 3 S X
2019 187 49 18
2020 724 38 34
2021* 325 4 1
Total 1239 91 53

* Jan-April
I'd expect big numbers in May/June

unkel · 26-05-2021 11:38am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I've used the superchargers about 10-12 times in 14 months....

On Sunday I pulled into Ballacolla Supercharger and it was the busiest I've ever seen a supercharger site........ 2 of the 8 stalls were in use, 3 when I plugged in.

when I came out of the shop with pizza 20 minutes later, the 2 other Model 3's had left, and a Model X was pulling in...

this was only the 2nd time I pulled into a Supercharger site that wasn't completely empty.... so I'd say we've a long way to go before we start seeing queues at them...

And even if all 8 stalls were occupied, the expected waiting time would only be 5 minutes

And all this was installed without a cent from the Irish tax payer. Unlike the shambles that is the ESB fast chargers...

wassie · 26-05-2021 11:41am

But that's what makes the EBS Ecars network so exciting.....like playing lotto.

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 11:57am

Is the Tesla supercharger network locked up or can you get the stats on usage?

Any idea on roughly how much it costs to install one like in Sandyford or Enfield? I presume what they are losing on the network Capex costs they make back on the premium on the car.

If I go on the website I see (correct me if any of this is wrong)
Live
Ballacolla x 8
Birdhill x 8
Castlebellingham (N+S) x 16

Coming soon
Sandyford x 4
Enfield x 8?
Athenry x 8?
Cork x8?

slave1 · 26-05-2021 12:11pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

I've never had to queue and that's the whole point of the SC network, they should be in plenty of locations and enough stalls to avoid queuing.
I've SC in 9 locations here and Scotland, every time I could plan to arrive at single digit SOC and be 100% confident that the car would arrive at that SOC and that I could hook up straight away.
That's what sets the SC network apart.

markpb wrote: »

Over time, the value of the SuC network will diminish as other high-quality operators come along. Electricity America are (thanks to a generous donation from VW :-)) making great strides. Ionity are doing the same in Europe albeit with an unproven commercial model. Gridserve look promising in the UK. The EV market is still in its infancy. It’s impossible to believe that Tesla will be in the same position forever. When that happens, it’s likely that the SuC network will become a profit-centre for them or be sold to another operator.

Equally, it’s likely that governments will ban single-operator charging networks on the grounds that they’re an inefficient use of the electricity supply network.

Think that entire post is off the mark.
SC network will never diminish here.
Ionity are a joke with both their pricing and throttled chargers, I pass the Athlone hub regularly and I've only seen one car charge there ever, an eGolf
With free SC now well gone from Tesla the SC network will be unrivaled and turn more and more money as more and more Teslas hit the road.
Pricing is easy to control and change, there are now different prices depending on location (Ballacolla is more expensive than Birdhill for example) and there is also dynamic pricing based on time of day.
Tesla have SC nailed.
Any Tesla owner here can rock up to the new V3 SC and get high speed reliable charging for a fraction of Ionity and cheaper than eCars.
Why would Tesla sell off their USP.

What Gov are going to ban single operator networks? Never happen, for a start the Irish Gov as members of the EU have part funded Ionity and of course eCars, there is such thing as conflict and open market.

wassie · 26-05-2021 12:28pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Is the Tesla supercharger network locked up or can you get the stats on usage?

Any idea on roughly how much it costs to install one like in Sandyford or Enfield? I presume what they are losing on the network Capex costs they make back on the premium on the car.

I would speculate that Tesla's economic model doesn't follow what you are suggesting.

As a company, they don't follow traditional manufacturers models. They adjust their pricing without notice. They update their models when it suits instead of following an upgrade cycle. And you can only buy their cars online etc.

slave1 · 26-05-2021 1:31pm

wassie wrote: »

I would speculate that Tesla's economic model doesn't follow what you are suggesting.

As a company, they don't follow traditional manufacturers models. They adjust their pricing without notice. They update their models when it suits instead of following an upgrade cycle. And you can only buy their cars online etc.

Absolutely, they've broke the mold for sure.
Want to know about Tesla updates then you need to be active on a Tesla forum, Tesla know this and rarely publish updates on SC pricing.

Sabre Man · 26-05-2021 2:04pm

innrain wrote: »

Number of new registrations from stats.beepbeep.ie Not including the imported which for S/X would be a quite bigger %
Year 3 S X
2019 187 49 18
2020 724 38 34
2021* 325 4 1
Total 1239 91 53

* Jan-April
I'd expect big numbers in May/June

You need to go back to 2017 when Tesla entered the Irish market.

ELM327 · 26-05-2021 2:15pm

I'd say that for every year 2019 + before, there was probably more imported S than total new Tesla sales.

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 2:42pm

Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.

eddhorse · 26-05-2021 2:53pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.

You need to look into :
V2V : Vehicle to Vehicle
V2G : Vehicle to Grid
V2H : Vehicle to Home
V2X : Vehicle to Everything

ELM327 · 26-05-2021 2:54pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.

In terms of what I think Tesla would be worth while spending their time on, I think fossil fuel conversions would be a more worthwhile use of resources than the above faff.

AndyBoBandy · 26-05-2021 3:02pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.

unkel can do it with his inverter,...

and once Sandyford SuC is up and running, he'll be offering a mobile charging service!! "Why go to the charge when the charge can go to you"

:D

unkel · 26-05-2021 3:04pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

unkel can do it with his inverter,...

and once Sandyford SuC is up and running, he'll be offering a mobile charging service!! "Why go to the charge when the charge can go to you" :D

LOL! I think the AA already offers a mobile fast-ish charge for stranded EV customers?

AndyBoBandy · 26-05-2021 3:06pm

unkel wrote: »

LOL! I think the AA already offers a mobile fast-ish charge for stranded EV customers?

yeah, but you get the juice for free once Sandyford opens.....

10-15 years down the line, when every car component on that car has had it's innings, I'd be trailering it to the SuC every couple of days to fill it, and then off load teh juice to my daily....

innrain · 26-05-2021 3:15pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

You need to go back to 2017 when Tesla entered the Irish market.

You're right.
Year 3 S X
2017 0 38 12
2018 0 85 38
2019 187 49 18
2020 724 38 34
2021* 325 4 1
Total 1236 214 103

Now can we compare with the UK numbers just to see the SuC/car ratio is maintained. They have opened 10 sites in UK this year, 8 in Germany, 6 in France, 6 in Poland. It seems a quite fast pace compared with us.

unkel · 26-05-2021 3:36pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

10-15 years down the line, when every car component on that car has had it's innings, I'd be trailering it to the SuC every couple of days to fill it, and then off load teh juice to my daily....

LOL! All that effort for the massive saving of 70kWh * 4.78c = a bit over EUR3

markpb · 26-05-2021 3:39pm

slave1 wrote: »

Think that entire post is off the mark. SC network will never diminish here.

‘Never’ is a very strong word to throw around. We’re still in the infancy so no-one has any idea how the market will develop.

Ionity are a joke with both their pricing and throttled chargers, I pass the Athlone hub regularly and I've only seen one car charge there ever, an eGolf

Ionity have only been in Ireland for a short amount of time and we’ve spent most of that in some kind of lock down. Additionally, the number of EVs here is still very low. It’s far too early to tell if their strategy and pricing will pay off. People might dismiss them as being too expensive now but there are plenty of people who will pay for it, especially if the only alternative is queueing at a single eCars charger for a long time and getting a much lower charge rate.

Why would Tesla sell off their USP

Tesla built the SuC network to allay range anxiety and sell cars. If there are other high-quality charging networks available, the problem goes away and you’d have to question the investment case of continuing to add new stations and service and upgrade the existing ones.

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 3:42pm

new Kia EV6 has V2L and V2V, that's why I was asking if Tesla can do it

unkel · 26-05-2021 3:57pm

cannco253 wrote: »

new Kia EV6 has V2L and V2V

Fancy terms for just having an inverter connected to their DC-DC converter. Any EV can do that as long as you properly hook up a within spec inverter yourself. Like in my own 7 year old Tesla.

Not pooing on this feature BTW, I think it is great it comes as standard and doesn't require the owner to do anything but just use it. But the real benefit would come from bi-directional V2H / V2G charging through the standard type 2 socket (or preferably wirelessly)

slave1 · 26-05-2021 4:07pm

markpb wrote: »

....

Tesla built the SuC network to allay range anxiety and sell cars. If there are other high-quality charging networks available, the problem goes away and you’d have to question the investment case of continuing to add new stations and service and upgrade the existing ones.

They'll continue to do it to dominate the market regarding exclusive infrastructure, e.g. ID4 or Model Y, hmmmm, not much between them so I'll plop for the Y as then I can use the SC network.
And of course the real joy with the SC network is you just reverse in and hook up, no cards, no App, as simple as it gets

But you are right that only time will tell.

cannco253 · 26-05-2021 5:01pm

but if only you could get a Y.......not much good to ye if you need a car now and can't wait until sometime next year, maybe.

By then you'll have the ID.4/Enyaq/Ioniq5/EV6/Arriya as well so the USP of the charger network might not be enough to persuade some people to wait and go Tesla. Bigger batteries and longer range reduces some range anxiety, if you can drive point to point and destination charge then it's a nice to have not an essential.

I really think that having only one office in Dublin also puts some people off, but not everyone.

It will be an interesting summer !

MightyMunster · 26-05-2021 5:17pm

slave1 wrote: »

I've never had to queue and that's the whole point of the SC network, they should be in plenty of locations and enough stalls to avoid queuing.
I've SC in 9 locations here and Scotland, every time I could plan to arrive at single digit SOC and be 100% confident that the car would arrive at that SOC and that I could hook up straight away.
That's what sets the SC network apart.

Think that entire post is off the mark.
SC network will never diminish here.
Ionity are a joke with both their pricing and throttled chargers, I pass the Athlone hub regularly and I've only seen one car charge there ever, an eGolf
With free SC now well gone from Tesla the SC network will be unrivaled and turn more and more money as more and more Teslas hit the road.
Pricing is easy to control and change, there are now different prices depending on location (Ballacolla is more expensive than Birdhill for example) and there is also dynamic pricing based on time of day.
Tesla have SC nailed.
Any Tesla owner here can rock up to the new V3 SC and get high speed reliable charging for a fraction of Ionity and cheaper than eCars.
Why would Tesla sell off their USP.

What Gov are going to ban single operator networks? Never happen, for a start the Irish Gov as members of the EU have part funded Ionity and of course eCars, there is such thing as conflict and open market.

Didn't know they were different prices, had to go out to the car to check it out. 1c per kwh in the difference. Sets a precedence I suppose.
See on Tesla website that they charge per min and kwh in busier locations to discourage hogging, charging over 80% and can also auto set max charge to 80%. Will kick in here I suppose once the numbers warrant it.

markpb · 26-05-2021 5:47pm

slave1 wrote: »

And of course the real joy with the SC network is you just reverse in and hook up, no cards, no App, as simple as it gets.

This works today between Electrify America and Ford and apparently also with VW cars after a software update. An industry standard has been defined so I’d expect to see this grow over time. Of course, it’s dubious if Tesla cars will be able to take advantage of this. In markets like Ireland where Tesla are definitely not a dominant charging network, this could be seen as a disadvantage of sorts.

Tesla Supercharger network in Ireland

Comments