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Tesla Supercharger network in Ireland

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭wassie


    Going past there once a week at the moment as I daydream to when they finally are installed. Will be great for the Dublin-Galway commute and to be free of the ESB Ecars roulette / Ionity rip-off at the moment along that route.

    Looking at the plan it shows 8 bays consisting of 6x Tesla charge points installed and 2x Type 2 points.

    Any idea if these will be V3 chargers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Any update on when other car brands will be able to use Tesla super chargers?

    ·
    Dec 21, 2020
    Serious question: Why don't more electric car makers take up Tesla on their offer to use the Supercharging network? Incompatible tech? Hidden fees? Pride? There's gotta be a good reason.

    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    They are, although it’s kind low-key. Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,436 ✭✭✭zg3409


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Any update on when other car brands will be able to use Tesla super chargers?

    ·
    Dec 21, 2020
    Serious question: Why don't more electric car makers take up Tesla on their offer to use the Supercharging network? Incompatible tech? Hidden fees? Pride? There's gotta be a good reason.

    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    They are, although it’s kind low-key. Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.

    I believe some in USA are allowed to some brands. Not mainstream.

    I think its just bluff from Tesla. They could today offer it to general public in Europe. With the flick of a switch they could have an app that allowed any CCS car to use them. No need to do deals with brands. I assume they have set the price so high no one wants to take up their "offer"

    They could give priority to tesla and tesla cars could pre-reserve the chargers once they are on the road. They have chosen not to do this.

    In USA there is a connector standard issue.

    Very little upside for Tesla


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭cannco253


    How many superchargers have Tesla in Ireland now, if we include the Sandyford and Enfield proposed locations?
    Roughly how many Tesla cars are in Ireland now that can use the superchargers?
    Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

    Just wondering on the above given how prominent the private network feature is pushed, and possibly considering one in the future.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    cannco253 wrote: »
    How many superchargers have Tesla in Ireland now, if we include the Sandyford and Enfield proposed locations?
    Roughly how many Tesla cars are in Ireland now that can use the superchargers?
    Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

    Just wondering on the above given how prominent the private network feature is pushed, and possibly considering one in the future.
    No, but we the rollout of model 3s, I've had to share a stall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,203 ✭✭✭markpb


    zg3409 wrote: »
    They could today offer it to general public in Europe. With the flick of a switch they could have an app that allowed any CCS car to use them. No need to do deals with brands. I assume they have set the price so high no one wants to take up their "offer"

    I’m not sure it’s as easy as that. SuCs appear to be quite dumb compared to DC chargers from other manufacturers. Most of the logic lives inside the car, not inside the charge point. This includes identifying the customer, deciding if they are allowed to charge and calculating the cost. It’s not insurmountable but probably not trivial either.

    And like you say, there’s not much upside for Tesla at the minute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Any update on when other car brands will be able to use Tesla super chargers?

    ·
    Dec 21, 2020
    Serious question: Why don't more electric car makers take up Tesla on their offer to use the Supercharging network? Incompatible tech? Hidden fees? Pride? There's gotta be a good reason.

    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    They are, although it’s kind low-key. Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.
    Hopefully never


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,339 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Why would Tesla want to allow other cars on their superior network that they built at great cost and effort? What's in it for them? They would be giving away what is arguably their biggest competitive advantage. I can't see it happen.

    Although technically it must be fairly easy to do, as they demonstrated with the "stunt" of free charging for all at the V3 superchargers to coincide with Musk's visit to Diess last year. The billing adds another layer of complexity, but I'm sure it is well doable


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The billing would be complex, as there would need to be something to tell the charger to power up and charge.
    Currently that's done by the car, as the units are dumb.

    If there's an app built for this, then I can't imagine this is possible without additional hardware for the chargers. V3 it seems easy to do as the plug is the same as CCS (with a small difference but not enough to render it unusable for non Tesla cars) but the issue is there's a "tesla only" and a "free vend" option, there's no "bill a non tesla option". And that woudl be the challenge.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,203 ✭✭✭markpb


    unkel wrote: »
    Why would Tesla want to allow other cars on their superior network that they built at great cost and effort? What's in it for them? They would be giving away what is arguably their biggest competitive advantage. I can't see it happen.

    Over time, the value of the SuC network will diminish as other high-quality operators come along. Electricity America are (thanks to a generous donation from VW :-)) making great strides. Ionity are doing the same in Europe albeit with an unproven commercial model. Gridserve look promising in the UK. The EV market is still in its infancy. It’s impossible to believe that Tesla will be in the same position forever. When that happens, it’s likely that the SuC network will become a profit-centre for them or be sold to another operator.

    Equally, it’s likely that governments will ban single-operator charging networks on the grounds that they’re an inefficient use of the electricity supply network.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭wassie


    Also, no doubt the premium price you pay for a Tesla is related in part for access to exclusive charging infrastructure.

    The fact is Tesla are the only manufacturer to invest in a charging network in parallel with designing & manufacturing EVs. The Ionity consortium is well developed, but clearly access is not equal across the EU for member manufacturers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭cannco253


    "The fact is Tesla are the only manufacturer to invest in a charging network in parallel with designing & manufacturing EVs. "

    Nissan did this with the Leaf in an albeit limited way when it was introduced and look where they are now. Not to mention that Tesla cars used to charge at Nissan Chademo locations.

    I get the premium for the network, but I wonder how long it will last as markpb states. The competition is catching up especially in the UK, remains to be seen what will happen here.

    The Technoking is a businessman at the end of the day and will always have an exit strategy, so it can only be a matter of when the network opens up not if.

    So are we able to figure out how many Teslas are in the country?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    cannco253 wrote: »
    So are we able to figure out how many Teslas are in the country?

    At a guess, I'd say at least 1,200 - 1,400 Model 3's, and another 200-300 Model S/X


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

    I've used the superchargers about 10-12 times in 14 months....

    On Sunday I pulled into Ballacolla Supercharger and it was the busiest I've ever seen a supercharger site........ 2 of the 8 stalls were in use, 3 when I plugged in.

    when I came out of the shop with pizza 20 minutes later, the 2 other Model 3's had left, and a Model X was pulling in...

    this was only the 2nd time I pulled into a Supercharger site that wasn't completely empty.... so I'd say we've a long way to go before we start seeing queues at them...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭wassie


    I'd agree - maybe when country reopens fully and during those peak holiday periods such as bank holiday weekends, but even then I think it wouldn't last more than a couple of hours TBH.
    cannco253 wrote: »
    "The fact is Tesla are the only manufacturer to invest in a charging network in parallel with designing & manufacturing EVs. "

    Nissan did this with the Leaf in an albeit limited way when it was introduced and look where they are now. Not to mention that Tesla cars used to charge at Nissan Chademo locations.

    I get the premium for the network, but I wonder how long it will last as markpb states. The competition is catching up especially in the UK, remains to be seen what will happen here.

    The Technoking is a businessman at the end of the day and will always have an exit strategy, so it can only be a matter of when the network opens up not if.?

    I would say at the end of the day Musk is an engineer forced to become a businessman. He ultimately is driven by solving problems, not money. He has already signaled it may be opened up so that is not really up for debate, rather the when and how.

    Tesla has succeeded where Nissan failed. Nissan didn't invest enough in a reliable fast-charging network. Owners were ultimately left stranded and reliant on a small number of third-party stations available to all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭innrain


    cannco253 wrote: »

    So are we able to figure out how many Teslas are in the country?
    Number of new registrations from stats.beepbeep.ie Not including the imported which for S/X would be a quite bigger %
    Year 3 S X
    2019 187 49 18
    2020 724 38 34
    2021* 325 4 1
    Total 1239 91 53


    * Jan-April
    I'd expect big numbers in May/June


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,339 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I've used the superchargers about 10-12 times in 14 months....

    On Sunday I pulled into Ballacolla Supercharger and it was the busiest I've ever seen a supercharger site........ 2 of the 8 stalls were in use, 3 when I plugged in.

    when I came out of the shop with pizza 20 minutes later, the 2 other Model 3's had left, and a Model X was pulling in...

    this was only the 2nd time I pulled into a Supercharger site that wasn't completely empty.... so I'd say we've a long way to go before we start seeing queues at them...

    And even if all 8 stalls were occupied, the expected waiting time would only be 5 minutes

    And all this was installed without a cent from the Irish tax payer. Unlike the shambles that is the ESB fast chargers...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭wassie


    But that's what makes the EBS Ecars network so exciting.....like playing lotto.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Is the Tesla supercharger network locked up or can you get the stats on usage?

    Any idea on roughly how much it costs to install one like in Sandyford or Enfield? I presume what they are losing on the network Capex costs they make back on the premium on the car.

    If I go on the website I see (correct me if any of this is wrong)
    Live
    Ballacolla x 8
    Birdhill x 8
    Castlebellingham (N+S) x 16

    Coming soon
    Sandyford x 4
    Enfield x 8?
    Athenry x 8?
    Cork x8?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Have any Tesla drivers had to queue at Tesla superchargers?

    I've never had to queue and that's the whole point of the SC network, they should be in plenty of locations and enough stalls to avoid queuing.
    I've SC in 9 locations here and Scotland, every time I could plan to arrive at single digit SOC and be 100% confident that the car would arrive at that SOC and that I could hook up straight away.
    That's what sets the SC network apart.


    markpb wrote: »
    Over time, the value of the SuC network will diminish as other high-quality operators come along. Electricity America are (thanks to a generous donation from VW :-)) making great strides. Ionity are doing the same in Europe albeit with an unproven commercial model. Gridserve look promising in the UK. The EV market is still in its infancy. It’s impossible to believe that Tesla will be in the same position forever. When that happens, it’s likely that the SuC network will become a profit-centre for them or be sold to another operator.

    Equally, it’s likely that governments will ban single-operator charging networks on the grounds that they’re an inefficient use of the electricity supply network.

    Think that entire post is off the mark.
    SC network will never diminish here.
    Ionity are a joke with both their pricing and throttled chargers, I pass the Athlone hub regularly and I've only seen one car charge there ever, an eGolf
    With free SC now well gone from Tesla the SC network will be unrivaled and turn more and more money as more and more Teslas hit the road.
    Pricing is easy to control and change, there are now different prices depending on location (Ballacolla is more expensive than Birdhill for example) and there is also dynamic pricing based on time of day.
    Tesla have SC nailed.
    Any Tesla owner here can rock up to the new V3 SC and get high speed reliable charging for a fraction of Ionity and cheaper than eCars.
    Why would Tesla sell off their USP.

    What Gov are going to ban single operator networks? Never happen, for a start the Irish Gov as members of the EU have part funded Ionity and of course eCars, there is such thing as conflict and open market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭wassie


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Is the Tesla supercharger network locked up or can you get the stats on usage?

    Any idea on roughly how much it costs to install one like in Sandyford or Enfield? I presume what they are losing on the network Capex costs they make back on the premium on the car.

    I would speculate that Tesla's economic model doesn't follow what you are suggesting.

    As a company, they don't follow traditional manufacturers models. They adjust their pricing without notice. They update their models when it suits instead of following an upgrade cycle. And you can only buy their cars online etc.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    wassie wrote: »
    I would speculate that Tesla's economic model doesn't follow what you are suggesting.

    As a company, they don't follow traditional manufacturers models. They adjust their pricing without notice. They update their models when it suits instead of following an upgrade cycle. And you can only buy their cars online etc.

    Absolutely, they've broke the mold for sure.
    Want to know about Tesla updates then you need to be active on a Tesla forum, Tesla know this and rarely publish updates on SC pricing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭Sabre Man


    innrain wrote: »
    Number of new registrations from stats.beepbeep.ie Not including the imported which for S/X would be a quite bigger %
    Year 3 S X
    2019 187 49 18
    2020 724 38 34
    2021* 325 4 1
    Total 1239 91 53


    * Jan-April
    I'd expect big numbers in May/June

    You need to go back to 2017 when Tesla entered the Irish market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'd say that for every year 2019 + before, there was probably more imported S than total new Tesla sales.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

    Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

    Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.

    You need to look into :
    V2V : Vehicle to Vehicle
    V2G : Vehicle to Grid
    V2H : Vehicle to Home
    V2X : Vehicle to Everything


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,027 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

    Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.


    In terms of what I think Tesla would be worth while spending their time on, I think fossil fuel conversions would be a more worthwhile use of resources than the above faff.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    cannco253 wrote: »
    Did Tesla ever rollout the bidirectional ability in the cars that was talked about a while ago?

    Is it be possible for a Tesla to charge a non Tesla, in other words you drive 2 cars to the Tesla supercharger, charge the Tesla then use the Tesla to charge the other car, and then charge the Tesla again? There are some people with 2 BEVs where this would be useful to know about. I presume car to car charging would be very slow if possible.

    unkel can do it with his inverter,...

    and once Sandyford SuC is up and running, he'll be offering a mobile charging service!! "Why go to the charge when the charge can go to you" :D:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 64,339 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    unkel can do it with his inverter,...

    and once Sandyford SuC is up and running, he'll be offering a mobile charging service!! "Why go to the charge when the charge can go to you" :D:D

    LOL! I think the AA already offers a mobile fast-ish charge for stranded EV customers?


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