Tesla Supercharger network in Ireland

fricatus

I think this topic deserves its own thread, and I don't see anything recent that's specifically devoted to it.

Personally I'm interested in getting a Model 3 in the next 18 months or so, but one of the things slightly holding me back is that where I live (Waterford) there is no real advantage, network-wise, in owning a Tesla over say a Kia E-Niro.

And I'm not complaining that there isn't a Supercharger in my back yard. What I am saying however between my home in the fifth largest city in the state and the main international airport in Dublin, there is not one opportunity to use a Supercharger. If I was starting from Galway, or Sligo, or Wexford, likewise. Even from Limerick, it's going to be tricky, because Birdhill is too close to my starting point.

So the "network" is not really a network at all, is it? Not every journey is going to need a Supercharger of course, but any long distance journey in Ireland is likely to incorporate at least part of the following main routes:

North-south: M8/M9/M11 to M50/N3/N2/N1 and M20/M18 to M17
East-west: N25-N22, M7, M4-M6, M1/A4 (in NI) to N16, M2/A6 (NI) to N15

Out of all of these, only M8-M7 to M50-M1 and N21-M7-M50-M1 are adequately covered. If I drive the main south coast route from Waterford to Kerry via Cork, I don't pass one. If I drive from here to Belfast, there is only one on the way, at Castlebellingham, and I doubt an SR+ is going to make it that far in the rain on a cold night, without slowing down well below 120.

The Tesla supercharger site for Ireland has been promising some new superchargers for a year or two now, with no visible progress. Even at that, there is nothing planned that would help me with a Dublin Airport pickup.

Of course the Tesla can use Ionity, and also it would really come into its own for any UK trips (not to have to use the "Electric Highway" - mother of God!), but it's poor enough show from Tesla, particularly when we're used to seeing progress on their network in other countries, and they're beginning to really sell in numbers here.

So does anyone have any insight into when these "coming soon" chargers will be operational, or indeed when we're likely to see more locations added to the list?

Boscoirl

fricatus wrote: »

I think this topic deserves its own thread, and I don't see anything recent that's specifically devoted to it.

Personally I'm interested in getting a Model 3 in the next 18 months or so, but one of the things slightly holding me back is that where I live (Waterford) there is no real advantage, network-wise, in owning a Tesla over say a Kia E-Niro.

And I'm not complaining that there isn't a Supercharger in my back yard. What I am saying however between my home in the fifth largest city in the state and the main international airport in Dublin, there is not one opportunity to use a Supercharger. If I was starting from Galway, or Sligo, or Wexford, likewise. Even from Limerick, it's going to be tricky, because Birdhill is too close to my starting point.

So the "network" is not really a network at all, is it? Not every journey is going to need a Supercharger of course, but any long distance journey in Ireland is likely to incorporate at least part of the following main routes:

North-south: M8/M9/M11 to M50/N3/N2/N1 and M20/M18 to M17
East-west: N25-N22, M7, M4-M6, M1/A4 (in NI) to N16, M2/A6 (NI) to N15

Out of all of these, only M8-M7 to M50-M1 and N21-M7-M50-M1 are adequately covered. If I drive the main south coast route from Waterford to Kerry via Cork, I don't pass one. If I drive from here to Belfast, there is only one on the way, at Castlebellingham, and I doubt an SR+ is going to make it that far in the rain on a cold night, without slowing down well below 120.

The Tesla supercharger site for Ireland has been promising some new superchargers for a year or two now, with no visible progress. Even at that, there is nothing planned that would help me with a Dublin Airport pickup.

Of course the Tesla can use Ionity, and also it would really come into its own for any UK trips (not to have to use the "Electric Highway" - mother of God!), but it's poor enough show from Tesla, particularly when we're used to seeing progress on their network in other countries, and they're beginning to really sell in numbers here.

So does anyone have any insight into when these "coming soon" chargers will be operational, or indeed when we're likely to see more locations added to the list?

While obviously Tesla look at population density and market etc on where they want to place their network, i Was looking at the current sites from my selfish point of view and none of them would be of any use to me at the moment if I got a Tesla(which I plan to do in the next 6-12months or so)

I live 15km from Birdhill so unless for a splash and dash on the way home I should never have to use it.

The one on the M8 I would never use, can’t think of any trip I would make that would pass near it and I rarely ever go up to Belfast.

From the proposed ones. The Athenry one would be of some use to me. And maybe the cork one. Not sure exactly where it was to be.

I presume the Sandyford one is at Tesla. So it convenient for them

If Tesla were to ask me where I would like a supercharger I’d say castleisland down in Kerry, somewhere in Mayo maybe Ballina and around Naas.

That would suit 90% of my irregular trips. My daily usage would be covered by free charging at work.

slave1

Tesla Superchargers in Ireland

Athenry (coming soon)
Ballacolla Supercharger
Birdhill Supercharger jtn 27 M7 Coolderry, Birdhill Ireland Co. Tipperary
Castlebellingham - Northbound Supercharger
Castlebellingham - Southbound Supercharger
Cork (coming soon)
Dublin Sandyford (coming soon)
Enfield (coming soon)

MarkN

For the amount of Teslas in Ireland, the number of chargers here is actually above the normal per head of other markets so I'm not sure they're in any big rush. The infrastructure and cost to install the level of power for a number of them in any one site is also substantial.

Gumbo

Why do you need specifically Tesla super chargers?
The batteries are generally so big that you only need a small stop or 2 to travel any great distance in Ireland.

Between CCS charging on the eCar Network and ionity you should be well covered.

Waterford City to Belfast is 208 miles. There are many many charging stations on the route.

Kramer

Gumbo wrote: »

Why do you need specifically Tesla super chargers?

Because if you've bought a Tesla, you've paid for them?

What % of the cost of a Tesla here (which now is far higher than other €uropeans), is to pay for their charging network?

A large part of buying a Tesla is their supercharger network. Tesla market this. Tesla buyers pay for this, up front.

Tesla aren't too concerned about Irish buyers obviously - not passing on price reductions or providing more chargers etc.

It'll come back to bit them in the ass, when other manufacturers pass them by (VW ID.4 FTW ).

unkel

I'd love to see some more Tesla Superchargers in Ireland. Tesla promised them to us and they are way behind delivering them.

Do I need them? Not really. I can go pretty much anywhere in Ireland without having to charge. Would I like them? Sure, the fastest, easiest and most reliable charging network there is or ever has been (with no competition in sight within 10 years). And I have free unlimited worldwide supercharging for life But in reality, the last time I used one was almost 9 months ago...

Gumbo

Kramer wrote: »

Because if you've bought a Tesla, you've paid for them?

What % of the cost of a Tesla here (which now is far higher than other €uropeans), is to pay for their charging network?

A large part of buying a Tesla is their supercharger network. Tesla market this. Tesla buyers pay for this, up front.

Tesla aren't too concerned about Irish buyers obviously - not passing on price reductions or providing more chargers etc.

It'll come back to bit them in the ass, when other manufacturers pass them by (VW ID.4 FTW ).

You haven’t really paid for them. A singular brand of chargers is irrelevant on such a small island like Ireland.

Would it be great if they were everywhere, yes of course. I also have free unlimited worldwide Tesla super charging like Unkel above but I’m yet to use one yet

I don’t see what the lack of SuC would stop someone buying a Tesla or any EV as there enough generic chargers.

Maybe someone could do a calculation of his 208 mile trip from Waterford to Belfast in a Tesla using the SuC Against ionity or eCars.

fricatus

Gumbo wrote: »

Maybe someone could do a calculation of his 208 mile trip from Waterford to Belfast in a Tesla using the SuC Against ionity or eCars.

Haha, I already drive a classic Ioniq, so I’m well used to planning charger stops!

The last time I went to Belfast I stopped at Carlow, Lusk and Banbridge. I had to avoid Dublin because the charging was free and the units were always occupied. I wouldn’t even have to do those stops now, with the locations that have been added since then - Ionity Kill and Gormanstown would do it.

In a Tesla M3SR+, I’d say a short splash ‘n’ dash at Kill plus a supercharger stop at Castlebellingham would do the trick. The higher capacity Teslas would only need the one stop.

slave1

We need them because apart from Ionity hubs (stupid expensive) the public charging speed/infrastructure is sh1te

Sabre Man

Kramer wrote: »

What % of the cost of a Tesla here (which now is far higher than other €uropeans), is to pay for their charging network?

In the old days you could buy a Tesla in the US without supercharger access. I think it was $2,000 or $2,500 to get supercharging for the life of your car.

zg3409

slave1 wrote: »

Tesla Superchargers in Ireland

Athenry (coming soon)
Ballacolla Supercharger
Birdhill Supercharger jtn 27 M7 Coolderry, Birdhill Ireland Co. Tipperary
Castlebellingham - Northbound Supercharger
Castlebellingham - Southbound Supercharger
Cork (coming soon)
Dublin Sandyford (coming soon)
Enfield (coming soon)

The planned locations are basically marketing, and vaporware.
If they wanted superchargers at any of the coming soon sites (many of which are there for 3+ years and are always "soon" in 2019, 2020 now saying 2021, they would have identified a location, identified a grid connection and applied for planning permission. No sign of anything or even enough room at their sandyford dealership. The new dealership in Belfast confirmed it won't ever get a supercharger due to grid limits or cost, so they are hogging and abandoning their cars on the local 50kW ESB charger.

My understanding is this is marketing and they typically only prioritise sites that help increase sales of new cars, as in sites that help sell to local owners. The locations are probably picked as where it might make sense for a long term network, but there may have been zero action on these sites ever since they were listed. Indeed priority for large city to city sites make sense.

In terms of your question, there is probably a 5,000 euro premium for access to Tesla network, both in cost of car, and what purchasers might pay for same car with and without access. It can be handy for driving to say London or across to France. It also stays with the car when you sell it, so you get a premium on the resale price. If you won't ever use it, then it has little value to you, and there are lots of big battery non Tesla cars. Just beware of slow charging rates on other cars, as teslas charging rate on ESB or ionity is typically good, while other big battery cars may charge quite slower.

A 50,000 euro purchase probably makes no financial sense anyway, so its more of a luxury purchase than a pounds and pence switch.

slave1

The current rate Tesla Ireland charge to use - what is the best charging experience in the world - is 25c per kWh and this is high power charging. In comparison the Publicly Funded Ecars charge 26.8c for their slow chargers (as slow as 2 kWh) and 34.5c per kWh for their inferior "High power unit" and don't forget they are throttling some of them at the minute and that rate is "introductory" so will move to 37c March 1st, a whopping 48% more expensive versus Tesla rates.

A few years back you could purchase free Supercharging for life and it was €1,400, this is now discontinued.

innrain

Tesla is looking for supercharger sites. Interesting
https://www.tesla.com/en_ie/host-a-supercharger

slave1

Generic part of their website I would say, if we get the currently planned sites (including the second longest in-waiting site in the world) then that's our lot I would say

eddhorse

Here's the new planning submission for Enfield anyways :

http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/21592/0

Looks like it will be in Johnson House.

Development Description:
The development will consist of 8 No. car parking spaces, 8 No. Tesla illuminated charger points, 8 No. Tesla parking sign posts, 2 No. Tesla supercharger cabinets, 1 No. ESB substation/switch room, and for all associated site development works within the curtilage of a registered protected structure reference number MH048-103

Development Address:
The Johnstown Estate, Johnstown, Enfield, Co. Meath

That will be a bit awkward with the toll bridge but if you have a tag that should handle it.

eddhorse

This is also a strange one in Cork.
https://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/195426/0

slave1

eddhorse wrote: »

That will be a bit awkward with the toll bridge but if you have a tag that should handle it.

Does this mean paying the toll on the plazas and then coming off and paying the toll again to get back on the M4 (if traveling in either direction?)

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Does this mean paying the toll on the plazas and then coming off and paying the toll again to get back on the M4 (if traveling in either direction?)

Yes but the tag will account for that, you only get charged the first time, if it's within a specific time period.

slave1

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but the tag will account for that, you only get charged the first time, if it's within a specific time period.

Good to know, must look that up on the fine print

KCross

eddhorse wrote: »

This is also a strange one in Cork.
https://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/195426/0

Thats 2 years old so probably not going to happen unless there is a new application gone in?

Odd location alright but it is near the tunnel and not far to city centre.

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Good to know, must look that up on the fine print

In accordance with the Toll Bye-Laws, where a vehicle has passed through a Toll
Collection location and within a 3 hour period passes through a second Toll Location in
the same direction of travel, the driver of such a vehicle shall be exempt from paying the
toll at the second Toll Collection location.


from here

403 Forbidden

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but the tag will account for that, you only get charged the first time, if it's within a specific time period.

Ive checked with easytrip and once its within the 3 hour window and you are travelling in the same direction you only have to pay once.

Here is the wording I got!

Thanks for your email.

The re entry rule only works if you are going in the same direction. For example, if you leave Dublin and head down the M4 towards Galway and come off at the supercharging hub you wont be charged for another toll if you continue in the same direction towards Galway within 3 hours.

If you leave Dublin and go to the Supercharge hub and then turn around and come back to Dublin you will be charged another toll as the re entry rule does not cover you if you go in a different direction.

Nedved85

Ireland is small, all we need is about 5/6 more Superchargers dotted around the island and we are well covered.

slave1

Good stuff, think I'll manage to top up my auld MS in under 3 hours, she still takes over 100kW and steady at 92 before tapering to 70's.

innrain

The new application for Supercharger @ Sandyford
https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dunlaoghaire/application-details/89027
Decision date due May 20th

Kramer

innrain wrote: »

The new application for Supercharger

Looks tight enough there for four stalls IMO.
Will it be Ireland's first V3?

markpb

eddhorse wrote: »

Here's the new planning submission for Enfield anyways :

While it’s great to see this progressing, somewhere a little more central would have been better. Leaving Dublin, you’ll barely have made a dent in most Tesla batteries, never mind having a low enough SoC to charge effectively. Galway to Enfield is probably a good distance but starting any further west and many people will need to charge before they get there.

I know Athlone already has Ionity but it still feels like a better location for a Tesla SuC.

slave1

4 is a shame, it’s the Capital and likely the only super chargers that will go there. Would be better for 6 out front at the angled parking spaces, just reconfigure them as straight parking spaces.
The only good thing is the service centre has a few outside 22kW destination chargers so hopefully they’ll free up the super chargers.
Nothing in the area though regards coffee apart from service centre itself during opening hours.

ELM327

You don't have the option of 6 anymore with the V3. It's 4 or 8.

slave1

8 then

ELM327

I wonder if it will see dublin residents using their free supercharging !

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I wonder if it will see dublin residents using their free supercharging !

I won't be going there and back to save myself 70kWh * 1.1 including losses * €0.0478 per kWh incl. VAT = €3.50 saving if that's what you are asking

But it's handy to have and if I'm passing anyway and I'm low and I have nothing better to do, I might as well top up and have a wee look around the nice shiny cars

slave1

Just seeing your losses calculation there reminded me, Tesla are the only supplier that only charge for electricity gained by the car and not electricity supplied by charger, makes them even cheaper again compared to the competition

ELM327

I'd use it, free coffee at the service center, and take advantage of MCU2 !

Sometimes getting out of the house these days is a benefit, not a waste!

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Just seeing your losses calculation there reminded me, Tesla are the only supplier that only charge for electricity gained by the car and not electricity supplied by charger, makes them even cheaper again compared to the competition

Didn't know that. Every day is a school day. And funny you mention that, many people on the continent with Teslas don't have home charging. Why would you over there where i.e. in the Netherlands most people pay about 22c / kWh and don't have night rate (as it's not available or doesn't make sense to get it even with an EV) and Tesla only charges a few cent per kWh more over there. A home charger would never pay for itself and there is public charging (and Tesla Superchargers) everywhere

markpb

slave1 wrote: »

Just seeing your losses calculation there reminded me, Tesla are the only supplier that only charge for electricity gained by the car and not electricity supplied by charger, makes them even cheaper again compared to the competition

I thought that went away some time last year?

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Just seeing your losses calculation there reminded me, Tesla are the only supplier that only charge for electricity gained by the car and not electricity supplied by charger, makes them even cheaper again compared to the competition

That's because of the hardware.
The supercharger units are dumb units, the control hardware is in the car and back at HQ

ELM327

markpb wrote: »

I thought that went away some time last year?

No.
They charged before for energy added to the battery only.
Now they charge for energy added to the battery plus energy consumed while idle from the SuC too. (EG AC use)
They do not charge for the 10+% losses from the EVSE to the car.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

That's because of the hardware.
The supercharger units are dumb units, the control hardware is in the car and back at HQ

Didn't know that either. How does that explain though how technically Tesla could allow the new V3 Superchargers to charge non-Teslas for a few days last year as a publicity stunt when Musk was meeting Diess? There must be some smarts in those chargers that bypassed the usually "ok" from the car.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Didn't know that either. How does that explain though how technically Tesla could allow the new V3 Superchargers to charge non-Teslas for a few days last year as a publicity stunt when Musk was meeting Diess? There must be some smarts in those chargers that bypassed the usually "ok" from the car.

I don't know if they have added some checks in the V3 hardware but for V2 it's for sure just a dumb unit. The car has to give the OK.


I presume if it's rolled out to other OEMs the authentication will be by the app, which will then also give the ok via HQ? Elon was very prominent in the messaging that the app would be required.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Why would you over there where i.e. in the Netherlands most people pay about 22c / kWh and don't have night rate (as it's not available or doesn't make sense to get it even with an EV) and Tesla only charges a few cent per kWh more over there. A home charger would never pay for itself and there is public charging (and Tesla Superchargers) everywhere

Does that make sense though? Charging barely a few cents more more than home charging seems illogical, from many angles - environmental, not incentivising night time off-peak charging, clogging chargers during the day when they could be needed more by those on a long journey etc.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

Does that make sense though? Charging barely a few cents more more than home charging seems illogical, from many angles - environmental, not incentivising night time off-peak charging, clogging chargers during the day when they could be needed more by those on a long journey etc.

Tesla obviously doesn't think localised much. A lot of their stuff is decided from HQ in California. Like setting prices for second hand CPO cars globally in the early hours of the morning our time

slave1

ELM327 wrote: »

You don't have the option of 6 anymore with the V3. It's 4 or 8.

Just on this, Tesla opened a 6 stall V3 last month in the UK (Adderstone)

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

You don't have the option of 6 anymore with the V3. It's 4 or 8.

Or 56

Linky



Or 62

Linky

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Just on this, Tesla opened a 6 stall V3 last month in the UK (Adderstone)

Interesting. Is it 1 V3 block (4 V3 plugs) and 1 V2 block (2 V2 plugs)?


V3 cabinets are built to support 4 stalls.

slave1

I believe V3 and they simply only installed 2 stalls on one of the cabinets

Royale with Cheese

Any sign of them building any of the proposed sites other than Sandyford? Handy for anyone coming to Dublin but I live about a 25 minute walk from there so I won't be getting much use out of it. Something similar in Cork would be useful, as well as Athenry.

I took the car to Kinsale last summer and was able to get by on using the AC charging in the town, but the charger was in serious in demand and would have been much easier to stop in Cork and charge it fully and arrive to Kinsale with 80%.

slave1

Just the Enfield application that went in recently

zg3409

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Any sign of them building any of the proposed sites other than Sandyford? .

No.
They are all coming soon 2021...I would not hold your breath.

Royale with Cheese

I'm pretty sure I'll no longer own a Tesla by the time they actually build those stations.