Ireland's Hospitals owned by the Rich

LuasSimon · 27-03-2020 12:23pm #1

Like many i wouldn't have known that all these private hospitals ( blackrock,galway clinic etc ) seem to be owned by our own Oligarch rich like Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien.

When will these people ever have enough wealth and to make it worse they wont pay tax in this country, preferring to pay a micky mouse percentage in Luxembourg or Malta. What good are these people to Ireland, fine they will rent out their hospitals at the minute but how much are they pocketing out of it ( more Millions?). These rich seem to be very cosy with the Fine Gael government .

Is it any wonder so many are only existing in this country when a small number of people measure their wealth in Billions and essentially have the vast majority of the country's wealth, theres very little left for the rest of the population.

27-03-2020 12:24pm

Go for it.

Salary Negotiator · 27-03-2020 12:28pm

You didn’t know that private hospitals were owned by private individuals?

Who did you think owned them?

p to the e · 27-03-2020 1:10pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Like many i wouldn't have known that all these private hospitals ( blackrock,galway clinic etc ) seem to be owned by our own Oligarch rich like Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien.

When will these people ever have enough wealth and to make it worse they wont pay tax in this country, preferring to pay a micky mouse percentage in Luxembourg or Malta. What good are these people to Ireland, fine they will rent out their hospitals at the minute but how much are they pocketing out of it ( more Millions?). These rich seem to be very cosy with the Fine Gael government .

Is it any wonder so many are only existing in this country when a small number of people measure their wealth in Billions and essentially have the vast majority of the country's wealth, theres very little left for the rest of the population.

It's "Mickey Mouse".

Alun · 27-03-2020 1:12pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Like many i wouldn't have known that all these private hospitals ( blackrock,galway clinic etc ) seem to be owned by our own Oligarch rich like Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien.

So, you assumed they were all owned by poor people then? Interesting.

Tea Shock · 27-03-2020 1:49pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

These rich seem to be very cosy with the Fine Gael government

What has it got to do with the FG Government?

LuasSimon · 27-03-2020 3:12pm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

You didn’t know that private hospitals were owned by private individuals?

Who did you think owned them?

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

colm_mcm · 27-03-2020 3:14pm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

You didn’t know that private hospitals were owned by private individuals?

Who did you think owned them?

They were trying to keep it private.

27-03-2020 3:14pm

#EatTheRich

27-03-2020 3:24pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

A bit like hotels - or restaurants?

ohnonotgmail · 27-03-2020 3:24pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

that is the point of them.

ohnonotgmail · 27-03-2020 3:25pm

1641 wrote: »

A bit like hotels - or restaurants?

Or private enterprises in general really.

Wanderer78 · 27-03-2020 3:28pm

The wealth eventually trickles down, it just has a strange look of debt and rising costs of living though, but plutocracy doesn't worry about that, it's all good!

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 3:29pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Like many i wouldn't have known that all these private hospitals ( blackrock,galway clinic etc ) seem to be owned by our own Oligarch rich like Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien.

When will these people ever have enough wealth and to make it worse they wont pay tax in this country, preferring to pay a micky mouse percentage in Luxembourg or Malta. What good are these people to Ireland, fine they will rent out their hospitals at the minute but how much are they pocketing out of it ( more Millions?). These rich seem to be very cosy with the Fine Gael government .

There is no right to cheap private healthcare. We should be glad that these business people provide these private hospitals which reduce the burden on the HSE and provide jobs for many professionals.

LuasSimon wrote: »

Is it any wonder so many are only existing in this country when a small number of people measure their wealth in Billions and essentially have the vast majority of the country's wealth, theres very little left for the rest of the population.

The likes of Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien didnt steal the publics money. They created wealth. Its a huge distinction.

skooterblue2 · 27-03-2020 3:30pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

The reason they want them private is because they dont want to be sharing a ward (much less a room) with Damo who is coming off the drugs or the travelling community who come in to disrupt the running of the establishment.

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 3:31pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The wealth eventually trickles down, it just has a strange look of debt and rising costs of living though, but plutocracy doesn't worry about that, it's all good!

This is a constantly repeated myth. The idea of trickle down is a caricature of supply side economics. It is fine for you to use the term to mock this school of thought but I hope you are aware that advocates don't believe in this concept of wealth trickling down.

Wanderer78 · 27-03-2020 3:33pm

Yellow_Fern wrote:

This is a constantly repeated myth. The idea of trickle down is a caricature of supply side economics. It is fine for you to use the term to mock this school of thought but I hope you are aware that advocates don't believe in this concept of wealth trickling down.

Oh I know it's bull****, but you d be surprised of the amount of people that still truly believe it

27-03-2020 3:39pm

Corruption, Greed, Cronyism, Bribery, Undue Influence, Nepotism etc. etc.

It is sad to see top of the range hospitals under utilised whilst people can not get their ailments treated.

However, along comes Corona and now (at least for a while) you will see 'a flattening of the curve'

biko · 27-03-2020 3:41pm

Ireland's Hospitals owned by the Rich

Not only rich, but Rich!

handlemaster · 27-03-2020 3:42pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Like many i wouldn't have known that all these private hospitals ( blackrock,galway clinic etc ) seem to be owned by our own Oligarch rich like Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien.

When will these people ever have enough wealth and to make it worse they wont pay tax in this country, preferring to pay a micky mouse percentage in Luxembourg or Malta. What good are these people to Ireland, fine they will rent out their hospitals at the minute but how much are they pocketing out of it ( more Millions?). These rich seem to be very cosy with the Fine Gael government .

Is it any wonder so many are only existing in this country when a small number of people measure their wealth in Billions and essentially have the vast majority of the country's wealth, theres very little left for the rest of the population.

Wealth of the world is unlimited. Nothing stopping you..

Beasty · 27-03-2020 3:47pm

Tell you what

Private healthcare in Ireland is not much better than you get in the public system in the UK. Let's nationalise all these private hospitals (at a fair market value) and let the taxpayer pay for that and their running costs. Of course that means the tax rates go up, but those of us currently paying through the nose for our private healthcare are better off. And then I can head up to BUPA in Belfast for my healthcare. Everyone, but particularly me, wins. Everyone pays for these extra public services and I get better private treatment in the UK. Sounds great to me

suicide_circus · 27-03-2020 3:51pm

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

Wanderer78 · 27-03-2020 3:53pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

can we trust private health insurance not to extract wealth from our health system, thus reducing the quality of service we get, in order to maximize their profits?

Eric Cartman · 27-03-2020 3:54pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

Our spend on administration for healthcare is insane, you couldnt trust them, it would cost them twice as much as all of us paying private health insurance and deliver half the service

FVP3 · 27-03-2020 3:54pm

1641 wrote: »

A bit like hotels - or restaurants?

But not like roads, or ports.

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 3:55pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

Health insurance in Ireland is very cheap. Youd pay vastly more in many countries. Private healthcare is generally better than public but its not hugely better. The main reason it is better despite being cheap because it is subject to some markets but its not a lot better as medicine is full of cartels and horrendous increasing demand.

FVP3 · 27-03-2020 3:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

If I could save my health insurance per month ( which I, not my employer pays for) then sure.

suicide_circus · 27-03-2020 4:00pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

can we trust private health insurance not to extract wealth from our health system, thus reducing the quality of service we get, in order to maximize their profits?

why would i expect a private business not to extract profits? its a contradiction in terms.

i dont want to pay for health insurance. i really dont. but i have the means and i'm not prepared to gamble on my or my family's health.

is there evidence that ending private health insurance would lead to an improvement in public healthcare? we spend more and more every year and yet we are told conditions in hospitals get continuously worse. So it's not purely a money issue.

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 4:01pm

FVP3 wrote: »

But not like roads, or ports.

There is a misconception that private means for the rich. That is not true. Plenty of ordinary people use private healthcare. Another example are roads. The M50 is a 'private' road. It was funded by business so there is a toll. Works fine.

Jolly Red Giant · 27-03-2020 4:06pm

Tea Shock wrote: »

What has it got to do with the FG Government?

massive state subsidies to private hospitals :rolleyes:

Wanderer78 · 27-03-2020 4:07pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

why would i expect a private business not to extract profits? its a contradiction in terms.

i dont want to pay for health insurance. i really dont. but i have the means and i'm not prepared to gamble on my or my family's health.

is there evidence that ending private health insurance would lead to an improvement in public healthcare? we spend more and more every year and yet we are told conditions in hospitals get continuously worse. So it's not purely a money issue.

there are profits, and then there are profits! id class excessive wealth extraction from the private sector as 'inefficiencies', just like the inefficiencies of the public sector

completely understandable statement, so paying for health insurance makes sense

yes and no id imagine, but i suspect we may never be able to untangle the complexity of having an intertwined system. completely agree, this isnt just a money issue, health care systems are highly complex systems

LuasSimon · 27-03-2020 4:09pm

Seems a bit much that owners of Hospitals in this country like Larry Goodman doesn't pay his taxs in Ireland but pays less than one per cent in Luxembourg, its easy for him own half of Louth and buy up all the hospitals in this country. Denis O Brien a similar case getting taxed in Malta.

These people have Billions and wont pay their fair share , meanwhile tax the b*llocks off middle of the road PAYE workers because Larry Goodman or Denis O Brien dont want to give any money to the country?/

Harry Palmr · 27-03-2020 4:10pm

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

bpmurray · 27-03-2020 4:11pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

massive state subsidies to private hospitals :rolleyes:

Actually, that wasn't Fine Gael.

Wanderer78 · 27-03-2020 4:12pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

id like to think you re right, but we have a tendency to just go back to normal sometimes

bpmurray · 27-03-2020 4:16pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

They don't cream off the state. They provide exceptional services to the state when the state can't provide the service itself. Like any other commercial enterprise they charge the state for this, unsurprisingly. However, private hospitals' bread & butter is the privately insured or, more accurately, their insurance companies.

In fact, insurance companies keep both the private and public health systems afloat: they subsidise their members who use the public system, paying substantial amounts to the public hospitals, as well as subsidising visits to private institutions.

LuasSimon · 27-03-2020 4:20pm

bpmurray wrote: »

They don't cream off the state. They provide exceptional services to the state when the state can't provide the service itself. Like any other commercial enterprise they charge the state for this, unsurprisingly. However, private hospitals' bread & butter is the privately insured or, more accurately, their insurance companies.

In fact, insurance companies keep both the private and public health systems afloat: they subsidise their members who use the public system, paying substantial amounts to the public hospitals, as well as subsidising visits to private institutions.

It seems a bit made the State is reliant on Oligarch rich people like Larry Goodman to provide hospitals, he then gets a huge amount of money from the state for this coronavirus emergency helpout with beds .....and he wont pay any tax in this country....its like McMafia or something in Russia.

bpmurray · 27-03-2020 4:20pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

can we trust private health insurance not to extract wealth from our health system, thus reducing the quality of service we get, in order to maximize their profits?

I don't see how eliminating private health insurance means they get to extract wealth from the health system.

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 4:22pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

I think you'd struggle to prove this.

bpmurray · 27-03-2020 4:23pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

It seems a bit made the State is reliant on Oligarch rich people like Larry Goodman to provide hospitals, he then gets a huge amount of money from the state for this coronavirus emergency helpout with beds .....and he wont pay any tax in this country....its like McMafia or something in Russia.

I doubt the amount is actually "huge" - probably reasonable commercial terms. I imagine most people would prefer if he handed over the hospitals for free, but that would be anathema to any capitalist and I'm pretty sure Larry is one of those (as is Leo).

hatrickpatrick · 27-03-2020 4:23pm

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 4:28pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

It seems a bit made the State is reliant on Oligarch rich people like Larry Goodman to provide hospitals, he then gets a huge amount of money from the state for this coronavirus emergency helpout with beds .....and he wont pay any tax in this country....its like McMafia or something in Russia.

I have no idea what tax he pays but as a rule if you are worth billions it is hardly shocking that you can afford accountants that are smarter then those who work for the state. BTW we also reliant on Oligarchs who make masks, who run freight companies, develop drugs, supply energy and many other things. Its the same as anything else. The only difference providing healthcare over the course of an entire life is vastly tricky than nearly any other area.

27-03-2020 4:50pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Why on earth not? If people want to pay for a service privately what is the problem?

Having said that, I would be delighted if we had a public health system that offered an easily accessible and comprehensive service. I would be happy to pay a bit more tax/prsi for this- and I could abandon private health insurance. But would everyone?

Compare us to Sweden. The top 20% of earners have an average state deduction of 33% of income here while in Sweden it is 37%. An extra 4% deduction for a comprehensive and accessible health service (plus childcare and other public services) sounds like good value.

But the bottom 20% of earners contribute an average of 12% here while in Sweden they have 37% deducted. How would an increase like that go here? Does whatever version you like of the People's Popular Front for the Liberation of the Nation propose to have similar taxation and social insurance rates here? If so they have kept very quiet about it.

Ludikrus · 27-03-2020 5:12pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Great idea comrade!

Savage93 · 27-03-2020 5:16pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

Not true, if you have no private health insurance you are welcome in private hospitals, as long as you pay for your treatment in advance, so there

Mrs OBumble · 27-03-2020 5:39pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Food is even more essential than healthcare. Do you want to nationalise all the supermarkets too?

purifol0 · 27-03-2020 6:00pm

I'm fairly shocked that the OP wants to take a shot at the private hospitals! The HSE & all the health care unions including the beloved nurses have destroyed the public system and all but bankrupted the country. Its a massive money pit and the vast majority of that cash goes nowhere near the patients.

Sir Guy who smiles · 27-03-2020 6:03pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The M50 is a 'private' road. It was funded by business so there is a toll. Works fine.

This is factually incorrect. The M50 is a public road owned by the state.

You pay a toll because the company has a contract to maintain the road.

https://www.m50concession.com/about-us/

Yellow_Fern · 27-03-2020 6:34pm

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

This is factually incorrect. The M50 is a public road owned by the state.

You pay a toll because the company has a contract to maintain the road.

https://www.m50concession.com/about-us/

Yes, hence I put the quotation marks because its not legally private but its a good example of important the private sector is for funding even the most basic of infrastructure.

NSAman · 27-03-2020 6:44pm

OP just count your lucky stars that you actually have access to healthcare (bad and all as that maybe)

I pay $1200 a moth for healthcare insurance for myself and each one of my staff (they range between $550 for the youngest to almost $2000 for the eldest).

On top of that I have to also pay up to $250 a year + doctors visits + ancillary costs.

Some people here (even with insurance) have deductibles of $5000 to $10000 a year.

There is nothing stopping people from investing in Private Hospitals. People make money and invest it to make more money, its called taking a chance in life. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. That is called Capitalism and makes the world go around.

sheesh · 27-03-2020 6:59pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

are you a brand new person?

you are taking the piss!

Ireland's Hospitals owned by the Rich

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