Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nothing personal, but this is not a real debate. It's a train wreck of personal assertions, false claims, guesswork, tenuous links, appeal to motive, incredulity and just about every fallacy going. These conspiracies, no matter how far-fetched, have a tendency to fester if left unchallenged

Leave it here then and just don't discuss this with me anymore. I answered your questions, but nobody on here has even attempted to answer mine (what does that say?) If this how you people function in real life damn, night:cool:

King Mob wrote: »

Oh, and look at that, some quick googling does not actually support the conspiracy claim at all.
http://www.spingola.com/pentagon_attack_papers.html

She just states that the Pentagon had SAM sites, but offers zero evidence for this beyond her own claimed authority.
She also doesn't explain how these SAM sites avoid shooting down the plans using the airport across the road from the Pentagon.

Least you know now I was not misquoting her!

Have you got information the Pentagon was defenceless on 9/11? You still not given me a firm reason to doubt their claim? I carried out some research and found links to information about this very subject. Unfortunately, the information in these links can no longer be retrieved online. Many of the links got taken now and are no longer searchable on the web and archived for future reference. I found one site talking about this very thing in 2003, but the link is broken.

You too hung up on the SAM site. Anti-air defences include scrambling of planes to intercept hostile planes also.

You've ignored inconsistencies with the official government narrative. Questions I asked you failed to answer.


If you think truthers are just crackpots explain this that we know to be true?

The Sept. 11 commission was so frustrated with repeated misstatements by the Pentagon and FAA about their response to the 2001 terror attacks that it considered an investigation into possible deception, the panel’s chairmen say in a new book.

Republican Thomas Kean and Democrat Lee Hamilton (on the 9/11 commission board)

Here you see the government lying to the commission and this is not the only time they did this.

Kean and Hamilton said the commission found it mind-boggling that authorities had asserted during hearings that their air defenses had reacted quickly and were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93, which appeared headed toward Washington.

Evidence showed otherwise
In fact, the commission determined — after it subpoenaed audiotapes and e-mails of the sequence of events — that the shootdown order did not reach North American Aerospace Command pilots until after all of the hijacked planes had crashed.

Commission staff, “exceedingly frustrated” by what they thought could be deception, proposed a full review into why the FAA and the Pentagon’s NORAD had presented inaccurate information.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14191255/#.Wtn5aIjwY2w

I was asked what do I think crashed at the Pentagon. My view what crashed at the Pentagon was A3-Skywarrior . This plane had the manoeuvrability to carry out the mission. This plane would look to an untrained eye to be a commercial airliner.

It was outfitted with missile and remotely piloted to the Pentagon.

King Mob wrote: »

Now you see, you've gone and done it again.
You've ignored the point that you can't address.

THERE IS AN AIRPORT ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE PENTAGON!


If the Pentagon had SAM sites that shot down any planes that got close to it, it would be shooting planes down every day.

What you even talking about this was 9/11. Planes had suicided 40 minutes earlier in New York and any plane coming into Washington after that was considered a hostile plane. We know from testimony at the 9/11 commission they were tracking a primary target 50 miles out from the Pentagon. The planes on 9/11 turned off the transponder and were not communicating with air traffic control on that day. As for as I know planes don't fly over the Pentagon they have routes they must follow in a no-fly zone.

Why I doubt the official narrative about the Pentagon attack is this.

April Gallop and many of the eyewitnesses involved reported on the day hearing an explosion between 9.30 and 9.32am Three clocks found all appear to have stopped working at exactly the same time 9.31 am. The government claims the attack took place at 9.37am. If the attack took place at 9.31 somebody has manipulated the flight data recorder data. What could have happened there was a two-stage attack involving a missile or planted bomb?

We know this it photographed a security camera was facing down looking down at the grass lawn in front of the area under construction on 9/11. A plane would have been seen on the feed and the tape of that is available yet never got released, why not? We also know on the Freeway near the Pentagon a camera is located, records in colour, busy traffic passing the Pentagon. Why has this video never got released?


Hani Hanjour. About 4 weeks before 9/11 he took a flying lesson and instructors told a reporter he struggled with the basics of handling and controlling a light plane. Yet we are to believe he had the skills to level off a plane, with about 24 to 32 inches of space between ground to the bottom tip of the Fuselage of the plane? Not only that exceeded the max speed of the plane at ground level 530mph per hour?

Then we have photographs of the damage at the Pentagon.

We can see from this photograph the damage was contained to one ring (A ring)

Since you probably don't know what you're looking at here. This is evidence the plane did not impact the C-ring something else did. There is a massive hole in C ring caused by an explosion. I show that another time. But what you see here contradicts the government version of events.


Regarding the SAM sites, they are likely hidden in locations unless you have some evidence they will be out in the open and seen by everyone?

Then you have to look at the evidence before the plane attacked the Pentagon

64 people on board: only two calls attempted and none of those calls can be verified. Why did 57 passengers not try to ring home or contact someone?

Flight 77 disappearing for 42 minutes: Where did it go?

Flight 77 not listed as a flight by the airliner before departure?

Why do the pilots not follow hijacking procedures?

How did the hijackers get to the pilots, if the cabin doors are locked?

Dohnjoe wrote: »

184 people were identified

"What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations, officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon general.

Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack."
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/afip_pentvictimid.htm

This claim is debunked because the Pentagon dumped unidentified Pentagon 9/11 bodies (waste in a landfill) and they got caught out doing this. If everyone was identified the media would not be claiming there were unidentified Pentagon victims. The report came from the government own lab so I would believe anything they say on this without some independent verification. 9/11 commission some of the members on there said there was a deception taking place at the highest levels to cover up this event.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/body-parts-of-911-victims-were-dumped-in-landfill-site-says-report-7462691.html

King Mob wrote: »

Lol, and now you are just going to pretend that I haven't shown this.

I'm out. Youve shown just how solid and honest your position is.

You haven't shown anything. What evidence have you commercial jets fly over the Pentagon? You provided photographs showing a wing of a plane. What type of plane is that? Where these photographs taken by someone authorized to do so?

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Thanks

We have something, so let's focus on it

Let's keep it simple to start - is this your idea or is it one you found on the internet?

If you can outline what happened, give a timeline of events with this jet (with sources)

Also provide of timeline of events of what really happened to flight 77 (also with sources)

I show you something I working on myself before I answer all that later and have not seen anyone talk about this online.

The Pentagon building report states plane debris reached as far as the C ring and exited the hole you see in C ring? The problem with that narrative the first floor Ring A wall is still standing and the wall adjected is still standing. So where did the plane exit from the point? Notice Ring B no sign of plane debris exiting there to make a hole in Ring C? If there no exit point the government lies in my view.


The plane would have smashed through the point I highlight here in this photograph

This is the hole in C ring The A ring is the burned wall where the plane hit.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Which parts precisely?

And just to confirm, the evidence that it was an a3-Skywarrior and not any other aircraft was based on these parts?



I only count two witnesses reporting a small jet or corporate jet, is that number correct?

How many reported a military jet?



This is vague. I mean a standard timeline - time of take-off, from where, basic movements.

Who flew it? a person? why would they go on a suicide mission?

If it was remote controlled - how do we know it was remote controlled? what is the tech behind? and what evidence was there for it?

Also, when you have time, if a military jet struck the Pentagon, what happened to flight 77, what were it's movements?

You ask a lot of questions I start with some of the parts first.




This matches perfectly with Praxair Fanhub. Above part, the blades are broken off. The fanhub when I researched this was larger in 757




Have you another engine part you want me to look at takes time to cut and crop pictures for the site it's a pain to do all at once.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You'll have to be honest with me

Are you just getting this info from this blog?

http://www.rense.com/general70/jt.htm

No some of the images I posted were taken by German Photographers at the scene and some of the images are official photographs I just cropped them down to highlight a point, for discussion why?

bohsman wrote: »

It was 2001, not everybody had phones glued to their hands 24/7, radio signals went nuts when you got a text message even. Most people would not have drawn attention to themselves by trying to make phonecalls.
Pre 2001 hijacking did not lead to instant death, procedures would have involved figuring out where to land to start negotiations.
Not the first or last ever plane to be hijacked, how has any plane anywhere ever been hijacked?

757 plane in 2001 had back seat phones installed. They were analogue with a better signal compared to digital ones. A call was made by Barbara Olson (CNN reporter) using this phone she called her husband office ( Ted Olson was United States Solicitor General and friend of the Bush family) This was after the hijacking had taken place, this was claimed by the FBI. She was not scheduled to fly on this flight, she just caught this flight to go meet a friend earlier. So how was she able to make a call freely and none of the 57 passengers did? She is how we know what the hijackers used on 9/11 for weapons. She described box cutters as the weapons of choice. This could be a planted story for the media we just don't know?

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I presume you didn't look at the photos and match them to a particular engine yourself? Can you provide for the source for this comparison?

As an example, here's a source of that particular engine piece complete with analysis


http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

A high-pressure system only belongs on a 757, not accurate.

Similar parts are likely going to be found in the same engine on A3. If you don't agree with this provide research on that?



Fan hub is likely bigger in this 757 engine? Nobody measuring the fan hub found at the Pentagon, so we can't accurately say if the dimensions match up.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't know, the NIST report is a culmination of years of work by a large body of experts and specialists. It's been widely accepted and as far as I know no recognised body of experts anywhere (architects, engineers, etc) have found significant fault with the findings of the report. It didn't produce anything dramatic we didn't know and it largely supported the findings of other less intensive reports/investigations - it just went into a lot more depth

If someone has found an error(s), it's possible, even reports backed by expert consensus aren't totally infallible

Unfortunately a lot of these so called "holes" in the NIST are raised by

a) laypeople who don't understand the complexities or have misunderstood
b) Conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones who just want to discredit the NIST purely because it contradicts their narrative
c) a + b

If someone doesn't understand something about a report like the NIST then it only makes sense for them to go to an engineering forum or similar and seek out explanations

Obviously it doesn't make much sense to be going to conspiracy theory forums - it's the equivalent of not understanding something about the process of vaccinations and going to an anti-vax forum

I have no doubt this response will be used as a fulcrum to quickly jump off the whole "Skywarrior" thing and jump into discrediting the NIST (calling it now) - but there's already a thread open on the 911 forum on that, so we'll keep "discussion" of that in there - where we are also eagerly awaiting Dr Hulsey's long overdue final report (and peer review) AKA AE911's neverending attempt to keep screwing conspiracy theorists out of money 17 years after the fact

ASCE carried out the investigation at the Pentagon, not NIST.

WTC7, a tower was brought down by an office fire is nonsensical. Twin Towers were hit by airliners loaded with jet fuel and those planes could have cracked the columns on impact?