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Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I continue a real debate with Dohnjoe, he is least trying to have a real debate on this subject.

    Nothing personal, but this is not a real debate. It's a train wreck of personal assertions, false claims, guesswork, tenuous links, appeal to motive, incredulity and just about every fallacy going. These conspiracies, no matter how far-fetched, have a tendency to fester if left unchallenged


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob



    Thing invented by people called the internet use it to find that quote:rolleyes:
    How can I find a quote when you have not provided it and in all likelihood, considering your previous claim, are making up?

    You made the claim, you have to supply the evidence to back it up.
    It's very clear now that you cannot do this as your claim is false.

    There were no Sam sites at the Pentagon on 9/11.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Nothing personal, but this is not a real debate. It's a train wreck of personal assertions, false claims, guesswork, tenuous links, appeal to motive, incredulity and just about every fallacy going. These conspiracies, no matter how far-fetched, have a tendency to fester if left unchallenged

    Leave it here then and just don't discuss this with me anymore. I answered your questions, but nobody on here has even attempted to answer mine (what does that say?) If this how you people function in real life damn, night:cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    How can I find a quote when you have not provided it and in all likelihood, considering your previous claim, are making up?

    You made the claim, you have to supply the evidence to back it up.
    It's very clear now that you cannot do this as your claim is false.

    There were no Sam sites at the Pentagon on 9/11.

    You have fingers haven't you have a name you know what we are talking about, google it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    You have fingers haven't you have a name you know what we are talking about, google it.
    Again, you are the one who made the claim, the onus on you is to back it up.
    You are deflecting because you cannot back it up.

    You can also Google the fact that there were no SAM sites. QED


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Oh, and look at that, some quick googling does not actually support the conspiracy claim at all.
    http://www.spingola.com/pentagon_attack_papers.html

    She just states that the Pentagon had SAM sites, but offers zero evidence for this beyond her own claimed authority.
    She also doesn't explain how these SAM sites avoid shooting down the plans using the airport across the road from the Pentagon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Not to mention we are hearing little about this "false flag event" as mentioned in the title

    What was this "false flag" event? who was involved? what are the details? what happened to flight 77?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Not to mention we are hearing little about this "false flag event" as mentioned in the title

    What was this "false flag" event? who was involved? what are the details? what happened to flight 77?

    I'm still waiting to hear a good explanation for why they would involve some random taxi driver in their plot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Oh, and look at that, some quick googling does not actually support the conspiracy claim at all.
    http://www.spingola.com/pentagon_attack_papers.html

    She just states that the Pentagon had SAM sites, but offers zero evidence for this beyond her own claimed authority.
    She also doesn't explain how these SAM sites avoid shooting down the plans using the airport across the road from the Pentagon.

    Least you know now I was not misquoting her!

    Have you got information the Pentagon was defenceless on 9/11? You still not given me a firm reason to doubt their claim? I carried out some research and found links to information about this very subject. Unfortunately, the information in these links can no longer be retrieved online. Many of the links got taken now and are no longer searchable on the web and archived for future reference. I found one site talking about this very thing in 2003, but the link is broken.

    You too hung up on the SAM site. Anti-air defences include scrambling of planes to intercept hostile planes also.

    You've ignored inconsistencies with the official government narrative. Questions I asked you failed to answer.


    If you think truthers are just crackpots explain this that we know to be true?

    The Sept. 11 commission was so frustrated with repeated misstatements by the Pentagon and FAA about their response to the 2001 terror attacks that it considered an investigation into possible deception, the panel’s chairmen say in a new book.

    Republican Thomas Kean and Democrat Lee Hamilton (on the 9/11 commission board)

    Here you see the government lying to the commission and this is not the only time they did this.

    Kean and Hamilton said the commission found it mind-boggling that authorities had asserted during hearings that their air defenses had reacted quickly and were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93, which appeared headed toward Washington.

    Evidence showed otherwise
    In fact, the commission determined — after it subpoenaed audiotapes and e-mails of the sequence of events — that the shootdown order did not reach North American Aerospace Command pilots until after all of the hijacked planes had crashed.

    Commission staff, “exceedingly frustrated” by what they thought could be deception, proposed a full review into why the FAA and the Pentagon’s NORAD had presented inaccurate information.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14191255/#.Wtn5aIjwY2w


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    9/11 commission also failed to mention the Pentagon knew about Mohammed Atta pre 9/11/

    The officer said that an intelligence program had identified Mohammed Atta and three of the other future hijackers by mid-2000.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/16/politics/officer-says-pentagon-barred-sharing-pre911-qaeda-data-with-fbi.html?mtrref=www.google.ie&gwh=D0E7A933ABC3CFF86240F30D8CAA21C9&gwt=pay


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    You still not given me a firm reason to doubt their claim?
    Yes I have repeatedly. You ignored it every single time:
    THERE IS AN AIRPORT ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE PENTAGON!
    I carried out some research and found links to information about this very subject. Unfortunately, the information in these links can no longer be retrieved online. Many of the links got taken now and are no longer searchable on the web and archived for future reference. I found one site talking about this very thing in 2003, but the link is broken.
    I don't believe you.
    Claiming you had the evidence, but just can't provide it is exactly the same as it not existing.

    This just sounds like a silly, childish excuse you are making up to avoid admitting reality.
    There are no SAM sites.
    You too hung up on the SAM site. Anti-air defences include scrambling of planes to intercept hostile planes also.

    You've ignored inconsistencies with the official government narrative. Questions I asked you failed to answer.
    Again, I have not answered your questions because we have yet to settle this topic.
    And in the course of settling this topic, you've lied, repeated false information, thrown tantrums ignored points and questions and made ridiculous excuses.

    This is indicative of all claims about the 9/11 conspiracy.

    If you actually pin one of these claims down and actually scrutinise it it quickly becomes clear that there is nothing substantial to it at all.
    Like with the idea of SAM sites.
    You claimed with all confidence they existed.
    But now you are talking about evidence that has vanished and they we all just have to really believe in and take your word that it existed.

    Also, I point to your original claim that Lloyd England. When pressed, you couldn't provide any rational reason for why he'd be involved, then quickly Gish Galloped away from this point.

    Such is the way with all of your claims.

    Now, if you would like continue the discussion, either post proof that the SAM sites existed (actual links from repuatable sources that actually show this for a fact. Not pictures. Not fairy mythical stories of evidence you saw.)
    Or admit that you cannot support this claim.

    Do that, and I'll answer any question you'd like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,018 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Do ya honestly think they'd let a black guy in on it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    I was asked what do I think crashed at the Pentagon. My view what crashed at the Pentagon was A3-Skywarrior . This plane had the manoeuvrability to carry out the mission. This plane would look to an untrained eye to be a commercial airliner.

    It was outfitted with missile and remotely piloted to the Pentagon.


    448636.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Yes I have repeatedly. You ignored it every single time:
    THERE IS AN AIRPORT ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE PENTAGON!


    I don't believe you.
    Claiming you had the evidence, but just can't provide it is exactly the same as it not existing.

    This just sounds like a silly, childish excuse you are making up to avoid admitting reality.
    There are no SAM sites.


    Again, I have not answered your questions because we have yet to settle this topic.
    And in the course of settling this topic, you've lied, repeated false information, thrown tantrums ignored points and questions and made ridiculous excuses.

    This is indicative of all claims about the 9/11 conspiracy.

    If you actually pin one of these claims down and actually scrutinise it it quickly becomes clear that there is nothing substantial to it at all.
    Like with the idea of SAM sites.
    You claimed with all confidence they existed.
    But now you are talking about evidence that has vanished and they we all just have to really believe in and take your word that it existed.

    Also, I point to your original claim that Lloyd England. When pressed, you couldn't provide any rational reason for why he'd be involved, then quickly Gish Galloped away from this point.

    Such is the way with all of your claims.

    Now, if you would like continue the discussion, either post proof that the SAM sites existed (actual links from repuatable sources that actually show this for a fact. Not pictures. Not fairy mythical stories of evidence you saw.)
    Or admit that you cannot support this claim.

    Do that, and I'll answer any question you'd like.

    The only person acting silly here is you. You even found a reference yourself in Jim Marrs book quoting Barbara honniger SAM sites existed to guard the Pentagon. And you were provided another reference April Gallop who said she was a given a tour of the Pentagon and shown the defences available at the Pentagon ( She was hardly observing military aircraft on a runway at the Pentagon)

    Lloyd England said what he said in the video, it clearly and understand if you don't believe it writes to him and makes a complaint. I have stated my opinion on him already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The only person acting silly here is you. )
    .
    Now you see, you've gone and done it again.
    You've ignored the point that you can't address.

    THERE IS AN AIRPORT ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE PENTAGON!


    If the Pentagon had SAM sites that shot down any planes that got close to it, it would be shooting planes down every day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Not to mention we are hearing little about this "false flag event" as mentioned in the title

    What was this "false flag" event? who was involved? what are the details? what happened to flight 77?

    Even the 9/11 commission members doubted the official story. So to claim it just looneys on the internet don't believe the official narrative is not knowing the facts at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Now you see, you've gone and done it again.
    You've ignored the point that you can't address.

    THERE IS AN AIRPORT ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE PENTAGON!


    If the Pentagon had SAM sites that shot down any planes that got close to it, it would be shooting planes down every day.

    What you even talking about this was 9/11. Planes had suicided 40 minutes earlier in New York and any plane coming into Washington after that was considered a hostile plane. We know from testimony at the 9/11 commission they were tracking a primary target 50 miles out from the Pentagon. The planes on 9/11 turned off the transponder and were not communicating with air traffic control on that day. As for as I know planes don't fly over the Pentagon they have routes they must follow in a no-fly zone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    As for as I know planes don't over the Pentagon they have routes they must follow in a no-fly zone.
    lol. Stellar research there:
    Pentagn_Approach.jpg
    Pentagon_Approach_2.jpg
    Pentagon_Flight_Path.jpg
    the-pentagon-from-the.jpg
    PentagonFromTheAir.jpg

    There are no SAM sites. You are not honest enough to admit this when it's blindingly obvious.
    It's not going to be pleasant time for me to answer any of your question only for you to once again rely on these tactics.
    So not going to waste my time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Why I doubt the official narrative about the Pentagon attack is this.

    April Gallop and many of the eyewitnesses involved reported on the day hearing an explosion between 9.30 and 9.32am Three clocks found all appear to have stopped working at exactly the same time 9.31 am. The government claims the attack took place at 9.37am. If the attack took place at 9.31 somebody has manipulated the flight data recorder data. What could have happened there was a two-stage attack involving a missile or planted bomb?

    We know this it photographed a security camera was facing down looking down at the grass lawn in front of the area under construction on 9/11. A plane would have been seen on the feed and the tape of that is available yet never got released, why not? We also know on the Freeway near the Pentagon a camera is located, records in colour, busy traffic passing the Pentagon. Why has this video never got released?


    Hani Hanjour. About 4 weeks before 9/11 he took a flying lesson and instructors told a reporter he struggled with the basics of handling and controlling a light plane. Yet we are to believe he had the skills to level off a plane, with about 24 to 32 inches of space between ground to the bottom tip of the Fuselage of the plane? Not only that exceeded the max speed of the plane at ground level 530mph per hour?

    Then we have photographs of the damage at the Pentagon.

    We can see from this photograph the damage was contained to one ring (A ring)

    Since you probably don't know what you're looking at here. This is evidence the plane did not impact the C-ring something else did. There is a massive hole in C ring caused by an explosion. I show that another time. But what you see here contradicts the government version of events.
    448642.png

    Regarding the SAM sites, they are likely hidden in locations unless you have some evidence they will be out in the open and seen by everyone?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Regarding the SAM sites, they are likely hidden in locations unless you have some evidence they will be out in the open and seen by everyone?
    Lol.
    No, I can't provide any such evidence as the SAM sites do not exist.:rolleyes:

    No comment on your claim that planes don't fly over the Pentagon?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Then you have to look at the evidence before the plane attacked the Pentagon

    64 people on board: only two calls attempted and none of those calls can be verified. Why did 57 passengers not try to ring home or contact someone?

    Flight 77 disappearing for 42 minutes: Where did it go?

    Flight 77 not listed as a flight by the airliner before departure?

    Why do the pilots not follow hijacking procedures?

    How did the hijackers get to the pilots, if the cabin doors are locked?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Lol.
    No, I can't provide any such evidence as the SAM sites do not exist.:rolleyes:

    No comment on your claim that planes don't fly over the Pentagon?

    I not making the claim other people are. I have no evidence there is or not. If you don't believe make contact with the people who said it?

    I more willing to accept information provided by people who worked in the Pentagon and in the White House and they had access to classified information.

    Do planes fly over the Pentagon? link, please?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »


    184 people were identified

    "What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

    A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations, officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon general.

    Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

    AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack."
    http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/afip_pentvictimid.htm

    This claim is debunked because the Pentagon dumped unidentified Pentagon 9/11 bodies (waste in a landfill) and they got caught out doing this. If everyone was identified the media would not be claiming there were unidentified Pentagon victims. The report came from the government own lab so I would believe anything they say on this without some independent verification. 9/11 commission some of the members on there said there was a deception taking place at the highest levels to cover up this event.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/body-parts-of-911-victims-were-dumped-in-landfill-site-says-report-7462691.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Do planes fly over the Pentagon? link, please?
    Lol, and now you are just going to pretend that I haven't shown this.

    I'm out. Youve shown just how solid and honest your position is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Lol, and now you are just going to pretend that I haven't shown this.

    I'm out. Youve shown just how solid and honest your position is.

    You haven't shown anything. What evidence have you commercial jets fly over the Pentagon? You provided photographs showing a wing of a plane. What type of plane is that? Where these photographs taken by someone authorized to do so?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I was asked what do I think crashed at the Pentagon. My view what crashed at the Pentagon was A3-Skywarrior .

    Thanks

    We have something, so let's focus on it

    Let's keep it simple to start - is this your idea or is it one you found on the internet?

    If you can outline what happened, give a timeline of events with this jet (with sources)

    Also provide of timeline of events of what really happened to flight 77 (also with sources)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Thanks

    We have something, so let's focus on it

    Let's keep it simple to start - is this your idea or is it one you found on the internet?

    If you can outline what happened, give a timeline of events with this jet (with sources)

    Also provide of timeline of events of what really happened to flight 77 (also with sources)

    I show you something I working on myself before I answer all that later and have not seen anyone talk about this online.

    The Pentagon building report states plane debris reached as far as the C ring and exited the hole you see in C ring? The problem with that narrative the first floor Ring A wall is still standing and the wall adjected is still standing. So where did the plane exit from the point? Notice Ring B no sign of plane debris exiting there to make a hole in Ring C? If there no exit point the government lies in my view.
    448661.png

    The plane would have smashed through the point I highlight here in this photograph
    448665.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Thanks

    We have something, so let's focus on it

    Let's keep it simple to start - is this your idea or is it one you found on the internet?

    If you can outline what happened, give a timeline of events with this jet (with sources)

    Also provide of timeline of events of what really happened to flight 77 (also with sources)

    No, it not my idea it was this plane. But I have looked up the parts found in the Pentagon to see if they match up with this plane they do. I also watched videos of Eyewitnesses accounts. A number of them reported a small jetliner white looked like a Lear jet?

    I think the attack happened earlier then the government claims too many eyewitnesses reported a blast at 9.31am, not 9.37am. This time of 9.37am only lines up when the News First heard of the attack and broadcast it to watching public worldwide. I can't give a timeline of this other plane and where it came from. There could be another event at 9.31am at the Pentagon?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    This is the hole in C ring The A ring is the burned wall where the plane hit.

    448668.png


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No, it not my idea it was this plane. But I have looked up the parts found in the Pentagon to see if they match up with this plane they do.

    Which parts precisely?

    And just to confirm, the evidence that it was an a3-Skywarrior and not any other aircraft was based on these parts?
    I also watched videos of Eyewitnesses accounts. A number of them reported a small jetliner white looked like a Lear jet?

    I only count two witnesses reporting a small jet or corporate jet, is that number correct?

    How many reported a military jet?
    I think the attack happened earlier then the government claims too many eyewitnesses reported a blast at 9.31am, not 9.37am. This time of 9.37am only lines up when the News First heard of the attack and broadcast it to watching public worldwide. I can't give a timeline of this other plane and where it came from. There could be another event at 9.31am at the Pentagon?

    This is vague. I mean a standard timeline - time of take-off, from where, basic movements.

    Who flew it? a person? why would they go on a suicide mission?

    If it was remote controlled - how do we know it was remote controlled? what is the tech behind? and what evidence was there for it?

    Also, when you have time, if a military jet struck the Pentagon, what happened to flight 77, what were it's movements?


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