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Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    You have not provided any evidence.
    You have provided a picture.
    We don't know where you got the picture, who is the author, whether or not it's accurately quoting who they said it's quoting.
    And even then, your evidence comes down to one sentence from that.
    And that sentence does not say what you claim it does.


    I am skeptical that she is the one being quoted in the unsourced picture you posted.

    Her being an employee of the Pentagon does not mean that she knows whether or not there are SAM sites on the building.

    And again: She does not say that there were SAM sites on the building.


    You might need to read it again as she does not say anything about whether or not there were SAM sites on the premises.
    No where does she say anything of the sort.
    She refers to the idea of such things existing after 9/11, but there's no way she'd know that, and it contradicts the information you copy pasted and plagerised from somewhere.

    What people? Was all they found this one scrap of evidence?
    Surely if it's true and they did this information you'd be able to provide something more solid than this.

    Please point to this research. Please outline the research you did to verify it was all sound and accurate.


    Ok, you've ignored it again.
    Do you not agree there is an Airport right next to the Pentagon?

    Well you doubt everything so maybe you'll answer my questions then since your so sure of the government version? Where is the security camera and freeway footage why has this not got released (source for why this does not exist I don't want an excuse the cameras are offline or the footage doesn't exist)

    Why was Hani a better pilot on the day when instructors claim he was a crappy pilot and could not a handle a light plane empty of passengers?

    Was there no aircraft at all in Washington that could have engaged the aircraft on 9/11

    If you can successfully answer those questions we are getting somewhere then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »

    It's 2018 your looking up models after 9/11. Flight 11 757-200 series had a max speed of 493mph in 2001. The link I provided even lists the correct engine used below the wings on a 757 in 2001.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Will you doubt everything so maybe you'll answer my questions then since your so sure o the government version? .
    No, I am not going to answer your questions. You have been constantly dodging mine then tried to throw out more random factoids when you get cornered.
    You are now trying to deflect from the fact this claim is falling apart.

    You've claimed that there were SAM sites at the pentagon.
    Provide the research you claim exists.
    You said people have researched the SAM sites at the pentagon.
    Which people and what research?
    Please provide the evidence they produced.

    Or admit that you cannot provide this research and that you cannot support your claim.
    Then maybe we can move on to another of the dozens of false claims, half truths and other nonsense you've regurgitated, if you want.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/boeing-757-200/101 even your own link confirms what I said look at the performance part!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    No, I am not going to answer your questions. You have been constantly dodging mine then tried to throw out more random factoids when you get cornered.
    You are now trying to deflect from the fact this claim is falling apart.

    You've claimed that there were SAM sites at the pentagon.
    Provide the research you claim exists.
    You said people have researched the SAM sites at the pentagon.
    Which people and what research?
    Please provide the evidence they produced.

    Or admit that you cannot provide this research and that you cannot support your claim.
    Then maybe we can move on to another of the dozens of false claims, half truths and other nonsense you've regurgitated, if you want.

    This how you skeptics work you don't want to answer anything because you got no answers. I provided you information your turn.

    I not dodging your questions, you have said you don't want to hear what truthers claim. It not like official media is going to be covering a 9/11 coverup, so not sure what you're looking for exactly as reliable?


    Truthers have found out things the mainstream press will not cover. You clearly see in photographs camera were pointing at the site of the crash so were is the footage now? In your mainstream opinion what you think happened there? And what your take on Hani experience as a pilot is the truthers reporting false info?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    This how you skeptics work you don't want to answer anything because you got no answers. I provided you information your turn.
    I have explained in detail why what you provided is worthless.

    First and formost, it is relying on a picture of a supposed interview with a supposed person who supposedly worked at the pentagon.

    YOU HAVE NOT VERIFIED ANY OF THESE THINGS!

    Where did this interview come from? Who did it and when? Provide a link that details these things.
    Otherwise, for all you know, it's entirely fictional.

    Secondly:
    THE PERSON DOES NOT ACTUALLY SAY THERE WERE SAM SITES AT THE PENTAGON!
    Nowhere in your badly cropped, unsourced picture does the person actually claim that there were SAM sites.
    You are inferring this from a very odd interpretation of one sentence.

    Again, you've claimed people have researched this topic.
    What other evidence beyond this one pathetic, laughable scrap do you have to support your claim?

    Or is that all you have?

    I will move on to another topic only when you engage and settle this topic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    I have explained in detail why what you provided is worthless.

    First and formost, it is relying on a picture of a supposed interview with a supposed person who supposedly worked at the pentagon.

    YOU HAVE NOT VERIFIED ANY OF THESE THINGS!

    Where did this interview come from? Who did it and when? Provide a link that details these things.
    Otherwise, for all you know, it's entirely fictional.

    Secondly:
    THE PERSON DOES NOT ACTUALLY SAY THERE WERE SAM SITES AT THE PENTAGON!
    Nowhere in your badly cropped, unsourced picture does the person actually claim that there were SAM sites.
    You are inferring this from a very odd interpretation of one sentence.

    Again, you've claimed people have researched this topic.
    What other evidence beyond this one pathetic, laughable scrap do you have to support your claim?

    Or is that all you have?

    I will move on to another topic only when you engage and settle this topic.

    John Judge
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/

    I took information from his book about 9/11 that answer your question on this. He said he spoke with April Gallop.

    Can you answer my questions now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    John Judge
    Can you answer my questions now?
    No, because we have not finished with this topic.
    Also you have ignored more of my questions yet again.

    So when did John Judge do this interview?
    Please link to a transcript.
    You keep linking to the Washington Post, but this link does not go to any interview and a google search shows no connection between John Judge and this newspaper.

    Again:
    The person being interviewed in your picture does not say there were SAM sites at the pentagon on 9/11.
    Do you disagree with this? If so, why?

    And again:
    What other evidence do you have for the existence of the SAM sites beyond this one interview?
    Is this one interview the only evidence you have?

    Also after reading this:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-911-woman-who-was-at-pentagon-remains-skeptical/2011/08/10/gIQAUtQDGK_story.html?utm_term=.6df963972251
    April Gallop seems to be of the opinion that there was no plane, something which you have disagreed with...
    I guess she's unreliable now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    No, because we have not finished with this topic.
    Also you have ignored more of my questions yet again.

    So when did John Judge do this interview?
    Please link to a transcript.
    You keep linking to the Washington Post, but this link does not go to any interview and a google search shows no connection between John Judge and this newspaper.

    Again:
    The person being interviewed in your picture does not say there were SAM sites at the pentagon on 9/11.
    Do you disagree with this? If so, why?

    And again:
    What other evidence do you have for the existence of the SAM sites beyond this one interview?
    Is this one interview the only evidence you have?

    Also after reading this:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-911-woman-who-was-at-pentagon-remains-skeptical/2011/08/10/gIQAUtQDGK_story.html?utm_term=.6df963972251
    April Gallop seems to be of the opinion that there was no plane, something which you have disagreed with...
    I guess she's unreliable now?

    John Judge interview was 2006 with April Gallop. She was shown the defences around the Pentagon. Have no clue if you find this info online somewhere on a conspiracy site? I have no scanner at home, to upload the information from the book, I got. Strange you can't find him on the internet I can find him no problem typing in his name?

    The other interview I can show you. I found it on this site. Now you have a source!
    http://georgewashington.blogspot.ie/2006/07/interview-with-april-gallop.html


    She does not claim Sam sites are at the Pentagon, we both agree on that. Did she say no anti-air defences functioned and why they were not activated? What is she referring to here? The interviewer did not drill down on what she meant and information like this highly classified anyhow.

    Barbara Honegger worked as a researcher at the Hoover Institution before joining the Ronald Reagan administration as a researcher and policy analyst in 1980, said there are anti-air batteries. I don't know who is telling the truth on this I can't say the speculation exists though hard facts maybe not?

    Can you answer some of the questions now genuinely curious to know what your position is on that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    So frustrating there is no image of plane crashing into the pentagon. It adds to the conspiracy


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Flight 11 757-200 series had a max speed of 493mph in 2001.

    From my first link

    "Year:1982 Make:Boeing Model:757 Engine:Rolls-Royce RB211, Pratt & Whitney PW2037, PW2040, or PW2043 Top Speed:530 mph"

    I have no idea where you get this notion that somehow 757-200 series models "speed up" over time. They didn't make "turbo" editions as far as I am aware ;)

    Also the "top speed", as mentioned, is a manufacturer recommended speed. Planes can go higher than this speed, but they risk damage. When flight 77 hit the Pentagon (at 530 mph) one of it's engines was already over-stressed and smoking

    The plane was only pushed to max for about 30 seconds (it's not like the plane was flying for hours at max)
    https://www.ntsb.gov/about/Documents/Flight_Path_Study_AA77.pdf

    http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-da...ng-757-200/101 even your own link confirms what I said look at the performance part!

    This part?

    "Max cruising speed 914km/h (493kt), economical cruising speed 850km/h (460kt). Range with P&W engines and 186 passengers 5053km (2728nm), with RR engines 4758km (2569nm). Range at optional max takeoff weight with P&W engines 7277km (3929nm), with RR engines 6888km (3719nm). 757-200PF - Speeds same. Range with 22,680kg payload and P&W engines 7195km (3885nm), with RR engines 6857km (3700nm)."

    Max cruising speed = 914km/h = 493 knots = 567,933 mph


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    So frustrating there is no image of plane crashing into the pentagon. It adds to the conspiracy

    There are a few, but they are bad quality. It wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference (consider how much high quality footage exists of the airliners hitting the twin towers and the resulting collapse)

    It's also not critical to the case
    • Air traffic control tracked the flight
    • The flight data recorder survived
    • Many witnesses saw the plane hit the Pentagon
    • Physical wreckage of the plane was found inside and outside the Pentagon
    • 184 of the 189 who died in the attacks were identified forensically (includes passengers and Pentagon workers)

    There are no other credible theories.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    She does not claim Sam sites are at the Pentagon, we both agree on that.
    Ok, so that was a giant waste of time.
    Despite what you claimed eariler, she does not support your claim...
    Moving on.
    Barbara Honegger worked as a researcher at the Hoover Institution before joining the Ronald Reagan administration as a researcher and policy analyst in 1980, said there are anti-air batteries.
    Sorry, I don't believe you. I'm not going to take your word for this. You claimed exactly the same thing with April Gallop and that turned out to be a lie. I think this is another lie.

    So first please post a link to where this new person claimed there were SAM sites and quote exactly what they said about them.
    I don't know who is telling the truth on this I can't say the speculation exists though hard facts maybe not?
    No you said that there was lots of research on this and acted like I was mad for daring to question the idea. You said there was tons of evidence that the pentagon had SAM sites. Now you are moving the goal posts.

    Is the only evidence you have these two interviews? (at least one of which one you now admit doesn't confirm what you said it did.)
    Do you have anything else more substantial and solid than you misreading random lines from random people?
    Anything at all.
    Can you answer some of the questions now genuinely curious to know what your position is on that?
    No, because we are still discussing this topic.
    And again you've dodged a bunch of my questions, so I'm in no rush to answers yours so you can deflect from how this point is crumbling under a basic level of scrutiny.
    I will only answer some of your questions on a different topic after you provide some solid, verifiable proof that the Pentagon had Sam sites, or you admit that you cannot do this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    From my first link

    "Year:1982 Make:Boeing Model:757 Engine:Rolls-Royce RB211, Pratt & Whitney PW2037, PW2040, or PW2043 Top Speed:530 mph"

    I have no idea where you get this notion that somehow 757-200 series models "speed up" over time. They didn't make "turbo" editions as far as I am aware ;)

    Also the "top speed", as mentioned, is a manufacturer recommended speed. Planes can go higher than this speed, but they risk damage. When flight 77 hit the Pentagon (at 530 mph) one of it's engines was already over-stressed and smoking

    The plane was only pushed to max for about 30 seconds (it's not like the plane was flying for hours at max)
    https://www.ntsb.gov/about/Documents/Flight_Path_Study_AA77.pdf




    This part?

    "Max cruising speed 914km/h (493kt), economical cruising speed 850km/h (460kt). Range with P&W engines and 186 passengers 5053km (2728nm), with RR engines 4758km (2569nm). Range at optional max takeoff weight with P&W engines 7277km (3929nm), with RR engines 6888km (3719nm). 757-200PF - Speeds same. Range with 22,680kg payload and P&W engines 7195km (3885nm), with RR engines 6857km (3700nm)."

    Max cruising speed = 914km/h = 493 knots = 567,933 mph

    Pentagon plane, when dropped down, and levelled off was 430 knots = 529mph. It exceeded the max of the plane by 39mph. This well-established fact even Skeptics accept this.

    A 757-200 series in 2001 was 493mph per hour at max.

    The plane is not designed to go at those speeds below anyone who says otherwise is full of it.

    There is no evidence the plane was smoking who told you that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok, so that was a giant waste of time.
    Despite what you claimed eariler, she does not support your claim...
    Moving on.

    Sorry, I don't believe you. I'm not going to take your word for this. You claimed exactly the same thing with April Gallop and that turned out to be a lie. I think this is another lie.

    So first please post a link to where this new person claimed there were SAM sites and quote exactly what they said about them.

    No you said that there was lots of research on this and acted like I was mad for daring to question the idea. You said there was tons of evidence that the pentagon had SAM sites. Now you are moving the goal posts.

    Is the only evidence you have these two interviews? (at least one of which one you now admit doesn't confirm what you said it did.)
    Do you have anything else more substantial and solid than you misreading random lines from random people?
    Anything at all.

    No, because we are still discussing this topic.
    And again you've dodged a bunch of my questions, so I'm in no rush to answers yours so you can deflect from how this point is crumbling under a basic level of scrutiny.
    I will only answer some of your questions on a different topic after you provide some solid, verifiable proof that the Pentagon had Sam sites, or you admit that you cannot do this.

    I have replied to every question of yours and have answered not one question I have asked. A one-sided conversation is pointless maybe your better off talking to someone else who agrees with you? I have already addressed the Sam site question. I not expecting answers from you any way I don't think you have any answers reason your delaying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    There are a few, but they are bad quality. It wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference (consider how much high quality footage exists of the airliners hitting the twin towers and the resulting collapse)

    It's also not critical to the case
    • Air traffic control tracked the flight
    • The flight data recorder survived
    • Many witnesses saw the plane hit the Pentagon
    • Physical wreckage of the plane was found inside and outside the Pentagon
    • 184 of the 189 who died in the attacks were identified forensically (includes passengers and Pentagon workers)

    There are no other credible theories.

    Air Traffic tracked the flight: false the plane was off radar for 45 minutes it essentially went dark till a blip reappeared flying over Washington (a fact not a conspiracy theory)

    Flight Data Recorder survived: was found allegedly but was useless no information was retrieved from it.

    Many Witnesses saw the plane hit: this is false also, who was standing watching a plane hit the Pentagon? Eyewitnesses accounts can change based on what they are hearing during the day. Many Eyewitnesses reported a small plane, a small jet, a fighter jet, a military drone who do you believe?

    The physical wreckage was found: but that does not mean the wreckage found belonged to Flight 77? An object obviously did strike the building. Where's the security footage and freeway footage tapes? This would clear this up for good.

    184 of 189 people were identified: False people were burned to ashes and they found a few bones at most inside the Pentagon, belonging to people. I don't think anyone could be identified on board flight 77?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I have replied to every question of yours..
    Lol. Nope, that's a lie.
    I have already addressed the Sam site question.
    And another.
    You have not supported your claim.

    You said you had, then backtracked at the barest level of scrutiny.
    You claimed that April Gallop said that there were SAM sites. This turned out to be a lie.
    You now claim some one else entirely said there were SAM sites. But you have not provided a link to where they said this. I suspect that this is another lie.

    I have also asked you to provide something more substantial than incorrect quotes from random interviews. You claimed there was more evidence because there was lots of research on the topic. This seems to have been a lie as well. You have no other evidence.

    So far when you are pinned to one topic you lie, dodge questions and straight up reinvent reality to avoid admitting that maybe you were wrong.

    Why would I want to answer a bunch of random questions from you when that's how you will respond?

    If you provide some proof for you claim, I will answer some different questions.
    Or if you just come clean and admit your claim is unsupported then we can continue.

    Otherwise, we're done. I'll just continue to point our your lies, false claims and misinterpretations and just how silly the conspiracy theory is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    19 hijackers boarded 4 planes at different airports yet we have only got 1 video of 4 hijackers at Dulles boarding a flight. This could easily be a dummy run prior to 9/11 at the same airport?

    Where is the rest of the footage showing 15 hijackers boarding flights?

    The Atta video is irrelevant because it only shows him with one other guy at an airport in Maine, not the airport the took off from and where they hijacked the plane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    A 757-200 series in 2001 was 493mph per hour at max.

    According to one link you've provided (which could easily be a mistake)

    I've already provided sources - here are more

    http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_7572_en.php
    Speed 982 km/h 530 kts
    610 mph
    Mach 0.8 = approx 613 mph
    Production Range 1982-2005


    The Boeing site itself gives mach 0.8
    https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/company/about_bca/startup/pdf/historical/757_passenger.pdf

    Boeing 757-200 and 757-300 can fly at a maximum cruise speed of 980km/h.
    https://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/boeing757/

    580 mph (935 km/h)
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/jetliner/b757/

    Cruising speed:
    876 km/h (544 mph)
    https://www.icelandair.com/about/our-fleet/boeing-757-200/

    Cruise speed of 570mph
    http://www.titan-airways.com/fleet/boeing-757-200-standard-class.html

    Planes can exceed these speeds (it's just unwise to do so as the plane can start to suffer structural and engine damage

    e.g. this plane exceed it's mach limit in a period of approx a minute and then recovered
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_841_(1979)
    (Full doc here for anyone interested - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=JYHfrk6EVHU)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Lol. Nope, that's a lie.


    And another.
    You have not supported your claim.

    You said you had, then backtracked at the barest level of scrutiny.
    You claimed that April Gallop said that there were SAM sites. This turned out to be a lie.
    You now claim some one else entirely said there were SAM sites. But you have not provided a link to where they said this. I suspect that this is another lie.

    I have also asked you to provide something more substantial than incorrect quotes from random interviews. You claimed there was more evidence because there was lots of research on the topic. This seems to have been a lie as well. You have no other evidence.

    So far when you are pinned to one topic you lie, dodge questions and straight up reinvent reality to avoid admitting that maybe you were wrong.

    Why would I want to answer a bunch of random questions from you when that's how you will respond?

    If you provide some proof for you claim, I will answer some different questions.
    Or if you just come clean and admit your claim is unsupported then we can continue.

    Otherwise, we're done. I'll just continue to point our your lies, false claims and misinterpretations and just how silly the conspiracy theory is.

    She talked about anti-air defences were available on 9/11. What are anti-air defences (missile batteries and attack aircraft) I already told she was quoted saying she was given a tour of the Pentagon and shown the defences? What defences at the Pentagon what do you think she talking about? Barbara Honegger worked in the White House (have you?) she said there was anti-air defence in place on 9/11. It was reported by the Telegraph the Secret service had stinger missiles to protect the white house on 9/11. If you don't believe this why don't you contact those people by email and ask for information about it? I quoting these people who were in positions to know about this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    According to one link you've provided (which could easily be a mistake)

    I've already provided sources - here are more

    http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_7572_en.php
    Speed 982 km/h 530 kts
    610 mph
    Mach 0.8 = approx 613 mph
    Production Range 1982-2005


    The Boeing site itself gives mach 0.8
    https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/company/about_bca/startup/pdf/historical/757_passenger.pdf

    Boeing 757-200 and 757-300 can fly at a maximum cruise speed of 980km/h.
    https://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/boeing757/

    580 mph (935 km/h)
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/jetliner/b757/

    Cruising speed:
    876 km/h (544 mph)
    https://www.icelandair.com/about/our-fleet/boeing-757-200/

    Cruise speed of 570mph
    http://www.titan-airways.com/fleet/boeing-757-200-standard-class.html

    Planes can exceed these speeds (it's just unwise to do so as the plane can start to suffer structural and engine damage

    e.g. this plane exceed it's mach limit in a period of approx a minute and then recovered
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_841_(1979)
    (Full doc here for anyone interested - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=JYHfrk6EVHU)

    It not a mistake, that link I provided is the specification for that type of plane in 2001. Did you not notice the picture resembles Flight 77? Has the same engine size? Go to a pilot forum or a skeptic forum they tell you that plane on 9/11 max speed was 493mph, with slight headroom to push it a little faster. I don't mind if I am wrong, but all your links are showing newer models of 757 after 2001 planes go faster as technology develops.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    She talked about anti-air defences were available on 9/11. What are anti-air defences (missile batteries and attack aircraft)
    You claimed she said there were SAM sites.
    She did not say anything about SAM sites.

    She does not support your claim.

    Also, she seems to believe that no plane was present at the Pentagon, contradicting your earlier claim. Should we not believe her when she says this?
    Barbara Honegger worked in the White House (have you?) she said there was anti-air defence in place on 9/11.
    What did she say and where did she say it? Please provide a link to where you are getting this information and then quote her directly when she refers to SAM sites.
    You claimed this for April Gallop as well, but that turned out to be a big fat lie, so you are going to have to provide a source.

    I will not just take your word for it.

    Please assume from now on that if you are going to claim some one said something, I will ask you to show where they said this and to show exactly what they said.
    It would save a lot of effort if you extend some basic courtesy and provide references to what you are claiming.
    It was reported by the Telegraph the Secret service had stinger missiles to protect the white house on 9/11.
    Link please.
    Also irrelevant to your claim about SAM sites being present at the Pentagon.

    Also again you have ignored the question: what evidence do you have beyond random lines from random interviews?
    At these two pieces all you have?
    If you ignore the question again I will assume this means that you have no other evidence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    This here is why the truthers doubt a plane hit the building. When the plane hit pretty much vapourised in a fireball, but something blew through 3 rings of reinforced concrete and blew out a massive hole in the wall in C ring. Remember the nose, wings and shell of the plane are gone once the plane hits the wall.

    448594.png

    You see from this photogaph the damage at the front.

    448595.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Air Traffic tracked the flight: false the plane was off radar for 45 minutes it essentially went dark till a blip reappeared flying over Washington

    Didn't mention it was tracked the entire time, the hijackers turned off the transponder. There is also a diff between ATC tracking and radar tracking
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=Losing_Flight_77#Tracked_or_not_tracked

    "While FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off, this information was not available to controllers at Indianapolis Center, for technical reasons. The result was that Indianapolis Center never saw Flight 77 turn around and head back toward Washington. The plane traveled undetected for 36 minutes."
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1962742
    Flight Data Recorder survived: was found allegedly but was useless no information was retrieved from it.

    The cockpit voice recorder was found but the data was destroyed. The flight data recorder was found and the data was recovered
    https://web.archive.org/web/20121010093205/http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/AAL77_fdr.pdf

    The data survived
    Many Witnesses saw the plane hit: this is false also

    Semantics and wordplay raises it's ugly head. The overwhelming majority of witnesses saw/heard an airplane
    https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.pdf
    The physical wreckage was found: but that does not mean the wreckage found belonged to Flight 77?

    A google image search shows the wreckage
    PentagonDebrisMontagecopy1-full.jpg
    184 of 189 people were identified: False people were burned to ashes and they found a few bones at most inside the Pentagon, belonging to people. I don't think anyone could be identified on board flight 77?

    184 people were identified

    "What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

    A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations, officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon general.

    Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

    AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack."
    http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/afip_pentvictimid.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It not a mistake, that link I provided is the specification for that type of plane in 2001.

    Plane was built in 1991. Provide sources to back up your claim.

    I have provided multiple sources to the max speed of the 757 200 series (covering the different engines)
    planes go faster as technology develops.

    The 757 200 series sped up? back this claim up thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    You claimed she said there were SAM sites.
    She did not say anything about SAM sites.

    She does not support your claim.

    Also, she seems to believe that no plane was present at the Pentagon, contradicting your earlier claim. Should we not believe her when she says this?

    What did she say and where did she say it? Please provide a link to where you are getting this information and then quote her directly when she refers to SAM sites.
    You claimed this for April Gallop as well, but that turned out to be a big fat lie, so you are going to have to provide a source.

    I will not just take your word for it.

    Please assume from now on that if you are going to claim some one said something, I will ask you to show where they said this and to show exactly what they said.
    It would save a lot of effort if you extend some basic courtesy and provide references to what you are claiming.

    Link please.
    Also irrelevant to your claim about SAM sites being present at the Pentagon.

    Also again you have ignored the question: what evidence do you have beyond random lines from random interviews?
    At these two pieces all you have?
    If you ignore the question again I will assume this means that you have no other evidence.

    I have provided links and sources and images. I just going to move on from this silly back and forth with you. You can't even answer one questioned I asked but you expect me to be a lap dog for you not happening best we don't talk anymore. I continue a real debate with Dohnjoe, he is least trying to have a real debate on this subject.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob



    I have provided links and sources and images.
    This is a lie.
    You have not provided any sources for anything.
    The one time you did, it showed that you were telling fibs about what the person said.
    Now again you are reinventing reality.

    Where have you provided a link to Barbara Honeggers quote?
    Why not just post it so we can move on.

    Notice how easily dohnjoe is able to back up his claims by just posting a link?

    Also you've dodged the question again, so it's clear that you have exactly zero evidence that there were SAM sites at the Pentagon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    This is a lie.
    You have not provided any sources for anything.
    The one time you did, it showed that you were telling fibs about what the person said.
    Now again you are reinventing reality.

    Where have you provided a link to Barbara Honeggers quote?
    Why not just post it so we can move on.

    Notice how easily dohnjoe is able to back up his claims by just posting a link?

    Also you've dodged the question again, so it's clear that you have exactly zero evidence that there were SAM sites at the Pentagon.

    Thing invented by people called the internet use it to find that quote:rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Didn't mention it was tracked the entire time, the hijackers turned off the transponder. There is also a diff between ATC tracking and radar tracking
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=Losing_Flight_77#Tracked_or_not_tracked

    "While FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off, this information was not available to controllers at Indianapolis Center, for technical reasons. The result was that Indianapolis Center never saw Flight 77 turn around and head back toward Washington. The plane traveled undetected for 36 minutes."
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1962742



    The cockpit voice recorder was found but the data was destroyed. The flight data recorder was found and the data was recovered
    https://web.archive.org/web/20121010093205/http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/AAL77_fdr.pdf

    The data survived



    Semantics and wordplay raises it's ugly head. The overwhelming majority of witnesses saw/heard an airplane
    https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.pdf



    A google image search shows the wreckage
    PentagonDebrisMontagecopy1-full.jpg



    184 people were identified

    "What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

    A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations, officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon general.

    Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

    AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack."
    http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/afip_pentvictimid.htm

    It was 38 minutes they lost contact at 8.50am and reappeared again at 9.32, as a primary target over Washington. We both agree at least, the plane whereabouts was not known for a considerable period of time. In my view, the plane could have flown off to other destination.

    Flight Data recorder data was manipulated I will address that tomorrow in another post too late now for the long-winded post it's bedtime. I will address all your information tomorrow when I have more time to post.

    Was 42 minutes just an edit on that point.


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