Couple with six children killed in Palestine

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 7:54am #1

The victims in Oregon weren't the only people shot dead yesterday.

Eitam and Naama Henkin - Israeli citizens and residents of Neria, Palestine - were shot dead in their car this Thursday.

Four of their six children – including a four-month old infant – survived the attack.

Though the shooter or shooters have not yet been identified, a member of Hamas has praised the incident.

Hamas are the leaders of the government in Gaza, led by Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh.

Hamas' spokesman Husam Badran called the killings a “heroic operation”, and said, “we call on our people in the West Bank to carry out more quality operations like the [one] today.”

I heard and saw a lot of people – both on the streets of Dublin and on sites like this – condemn Israeli actions in Gaza last year, and the innocent people caught up in it. I never – and I did stop to ask them – heard any of them talk about Israeli fears of Palestinian violence.

After this, a question needs to be asked.

Are Israelis fears of Palestinian violence justified?

https://twitter.com/EVKontorovich/status/649816393395867648

strelok · 02-10-2015 8:03am

yes if you live on illegal settlements on stolen land you probably should be pretty fearful of violent retribution

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 8:04am

No

strelok wrote: »

yes if you live on illegal settlements on stolen land you probably should be pretty fearful of violent retribution

Thank you for your comment.

Now everyone can see how you view the situation.

strelok · 02-10-2015 8:06am

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Thank you for your comment.

Now everyone can see how you view the situation.

*shrug*

I don't support murdering people but I don't think you can just lah-dee-dah onto illegal settlements on land your government has stolen from your neighbours and expect to live the easy life.

these settlements are an act of aggression against their neighbours, this sort of **** is just to be expected.

mad muffin · 02-10-2015 1:33pm

AH doesn't seem to care… not surprising really.

But if a Palestinian stubs his toes… woe-betide Israel, for the wrath of AH will be fierce and the thread will go on for hundreds of pages. :cool:

davmol · 02-10-2015 1:38pm

2 israelis killed.Should we be up in arms.

over 2000 innocent Palestinian children murdered by Israel,nearly 10000 adult civilians killed by Israel in the past conflicts.

Over 10 billion in damage caused by Israel to Palestinian infrastructure.

Many more children froze to death due to having no shelter as Israel intentionally destroyed absolutely everything in Palestine.

So,if you ask me do I care about 2 Israelis SETTLERS?not really.
Settlers are the worst form of scum on the planet-look them up and see what they've done

davmol · 02-10-2015 1:38pm

mad muffin wrote: »

AH doesn't seem to care… not surprising really.

But if a Palestinian stubs his toes… woe-betide Israel, for the wrath of AH will be fierce and the thread will go on for hundreds of pages. :cool:

One of the more ridiculous comments ive read here in a while

mad muffin · 02-10-2015 1:41pm

davmol wrote: »

One of the more ridiculous comments ive read here in a while

Woh, woh.

I do t want to stir up a hornets nest…

But one is murder. The other war

Mesrine65 · 02-10-2015 1:43pm

No

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Thank you for your comment.

Now everyone can see how you view the situation.

And now we can see what side of the fence you sit on.

davmol · 02-10-2015 1:46pm

mad muffin wrote: »

Woh, woh.

I do t want to stir up a hornets nest…

Palestinians have never declared war on Israel nor vice versa.

what you are seeing from the Israeli side is disproportionate punishment and full on slaughter of an impoverished nation with nothing by a country which receives billions each year in military supplies.

Like me with an army behind me slaughtering sleeping children

But one is murder. The other war

neither side have ever declared war with eachother.

What is happening is a country which receives billions of dollars in military aid each year is slaughtering innocent children who are impoverished and have nothing.

Its a slaughter and massacre which is one sided not a war.Settlers on stolen land=fair game

Eugene Norman · 02-10-2015 1:51pm

A few days the Israelis killed an 18 year old for being, well, not Jewish.

OP silent.

KomradeBishop · 02-10-2015 1:52pm

They may - allegedly (not proven yet) - be settlers, but they are still civilians, so obviously murdering them is wrong.

The 'wrongs' in this conflict are diverse and endless though - while this should be condemned, people should avoid the hypocrisy of failing to acknowledge Israel's semi-regular murder/slaughter of Palestinians as well - by trying to hide behind the fact that Israel mostly does it at arms-length, with drones and bombs (so that murder gets reframed as 'collateral damage' - when they know full well they will be targeting civilians and intentionally killing scores of them) - it's still murder.

Snake Plisken · 02-10-2015 1:52pm

No

No sympathy for the Palestinians when they elect Islamic terror organisations like Hamas into power. RIP the poor couple!
Europe could learn some lessons from Israel on securing its borders and controlling the flow of people.

davmol · 02-10-2015 1:54pm

OP-Where was your cries when an Israeli stabbed some teenagers some of which later died because they were at a gay march?

Where was your outrage when Israeli settlers burned a 6 month old toddler alive and laughed about it.

Have you heard about the tagging crowd of settlers who go around burning Palestinian adult and children out of their house??

They were ILLEGAL SETTLES living on occupied land and in my opinion they got what settlers are dishing out on a daily basis.

davmol · 02-10-2015 1:57pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

No sympathy for the Palestinians when they elect Islamic terror organisations like Hamas into power. RIP the poor couple!
Europe could learn some lessons from Israel on securing its borders and controlling the flow of people.

Netanyahu has presided over a country which has slaughtered thousands of innocent civlians and children.In my opinion that's a terrorist regime.

IS it because USA ,who protect Israel(due to Israeli lobbies) , don't label the Likud party terrorists that they aren't??

I see absolutely no difference between assads regime and netanyahus.

Both responsible for the death of many thousands off innocent lives.

DarkyHughes · 02-10-2015 1:57pm

It takes 2 Israeli's getting killed to match the response on AH of 2000 Palestinians getting killed.

Right wing moronic thread is moronic.

Shenshen · 02-10-2015 1:59pm

Is playing the numbers game (you killed 4 of ours! - Yes, but you killed 5 of ours first!) and trying to find a definite answer on who's to blame really going to do anything - anything at all! - to help solve the conflict and prevent further killings?

Or is that just going to satisfy the crowds desire for revenge?

02-10-2015 2:00pm

Anti Semites the lot of you!!

DarkyHughes · 02-10-2015 2:02pm

Shenshen wrote: »

Is playing the numbers game (you killed 4 of ours! - Yes, but you killed 5 of ours first!) and trying to find a definite answer on who's to blame really going to do anything - anything at all! - to help solve the conflict and prevent further killings?

Or is that just going to satisfy the crowds desire for revenge?

There's a much bigger gap between 2 - several thousand then there is 4 - 5 so of course Israeli supporters don't want to play the numbers game.

DrumSteve · 02-10-2015 2:03pm

davmol wrote: »

OP-Where was your cries when an Israeli stabbed some teenagers some of which later died because they were at a gay march?

Where was your outrage when Israeli settlers burned a 6 month old toddler alive and laughed about it.

Have you heard about the tagging crowd of settlers who go around burning Palestinian adult and children out of their house??

They were ILLEGAL SETTLES living on occupied land and in my opinion they got what settlers are dishing out on a daily basis.

Did they deserve to be murdered in front of their children?

Did their children deserve to watch their parents die?

Who benefits from that? No one.

I'm sensing the response will be something along the lines of whataboutery.

Its the same thing that happened in the north. The violence has to stop.

Shenshen · 02-10-2015 2:05pm

DarkyHughes wrote: »

There's a much bigger gap between 2 - several thousand then there is 4 - 5 so of course Israeli supporters don't want to play the numbers game.

So how many would one side have to kill for you to think the other side is perfectly justified to kill what fraction of that number?

We're talking about people here. There's the old saying that 3 dead are a tragedy, 1000 dead are a statistic. Treating any of these victims as numbers to calculate with for political justifications is unbelievably callous.

DarkyHughes · 02-10-2015 2:11pm

Shenshen wrote: »

So how many would one side have to kill for you to think the other side is perfectly justified to kill what fraction of that number?

We're talking about people here. There's the old saying that 3 dead are a tragedy, 1000 dead are a statistic. Treating any of these victims as numbers to calculate with for political justifications is unbelievably callous.

I just think things should be put into perspective here. Dropping chemical weapons on an entire population while maintaining a brutal blockade on the same population is equal to two people being murdered with a gun, something that seems to happen on a almost daily base these days in the US.

Why isn't the poll question "Are Palestinian fears of Israelis violence justified?" Or does the OP view Palestinians as subhumans who don't have fear as an emotion?

Nodin · 02-10-2015 2:28pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Are Israelis fears of Palestinian violence justified?

Not even half as justified as the Palestinians sitting in fear right now.

It's gas that this gets a mention, but the Palestinians every one or two weeks barely get a note.

Nodin · 02-10-2015 2:31pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

No sympathy for the Palestinians when they elect Islamic terror organisations like Hamas into power. RIP the poor couple!
Europe could learn some lessons from Israel on securing its borders and controlling the flow of people.

Hamas were elected in Gaza. This is the west bank, where the majority of Palestinians are. If you're going to comment, it would be nice if you actually has some vague notion of the realities beforehand.

Son Of A Vidic · 02-10-2015 2:42pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

The victims in Oregon weren't the only people shot dead yesterday.https://twitter.com/EVKontorovich/status/649816393395867648

Thanks for that OP and while I share you concern, unlike you, I find it difficult to be so selective. Because I utterly condemn the killing of any innocent persons, regardless of their faith or political creed.

It's just a pity you seemed to have missed the Palestinian baby that was burned alive by Zionist extremists back in July.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.668871

Why didn't you start a thread about that brutal murder? Or even a thread about the hundreds of children murdered in Gaza last year by the IDF? Imo, you're walking on very thin ice if you wish to only talk about violence coming from a particular side, while appearing to ignore the root cause for such violence. Which is, as long as the IDF continues to brutalise and murder innocent Palestinians, there will always be Palestinians willing to kill innocent Israelis for revenge. And the tragic cycle will continue as a long as we have nutjobs like Bibi and his Zionist regime controlling the reigns of power in Israel and continually choking the life out of peace.

DarkyHughes · 02-10-2015 3:26pm

mad muffin wrote: »

Woh, woh.

I do t want to stir up a hornets nest…

But one is murder. The other war

No, one is murder. The other is a war crime.

Paramite Pie · 02-10-2015 3:41pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Thank you for your comment.

Now everyone can see how you view the situation.

If Russia took over Europe, do you think Russian settlers in Europe would get the same treatment? Most likely.

While I don't support the murders, the victims were a symptom of the problem -- that it's okay to just mindlessly move in on someone else's land and evict them. Planning permission is not given to Palestinian people to build homes so they have no choice but to go ahead and build anyways. Then their homes are destroyed because of 'no planning permission'.

What do you expect?

mad muffin · 02-10-2015 3:44pm

DarkyHughes wrote: »

No, one is murder. The other is a war crime.

You say potato the UN says potato. But the whole world (except for the terrorists) agrees the couple was murdered in cold blood and their kids had a lucky escape but will remain orphans.

davmol · 02-10-2015 4:00pm

mad muffin wrote: »

You say potato the UN says potato. But the whole world (except for the terrorists) agrees the couple was murdered in cold blood and their kids had a lucky escape but will remain orphans.

No ,the kids didn't have a lucky escape.They were intentionally not harmed.
Unlike,israel who intentionally targeted children in the last conflict-read breaking the silence-admissions from the IDF that they targeted civilians and children.

In protective edge Israel murdered nearly 600 children and 1800 innocent civilians,Hamas was responsible for the death of 1 israeli child with a 90% military combatants kill rate.

tell me who is the terrorist?

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 4:18pm

No

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Does the OP view Palestinians as subhumans who don't have fear as an emotion?

Find one shred of evidence that I view the Palestinians as subhumans who don't have fear as an emotion.

That, or redraw you comment, you slanderous fool.

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 4:19pm

No

<mod snip>Don't bring discussion from another thread into this one please.</mod snip>

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 4:20pm

No

davmol wrote: »

OP-Where was your cries when an Israeli stabbed some teenagers some of which later died because they were at a gay march?

That was a revolting act. Yishai Schlissel, the Israeli who stabbed those teenagers, was quite rightly arrested for murder. I do not want to see him released.

The Israeli government called it a “despicable hate crime”.

Eitam and Naama Henkin were killed by a Palestinian gunman this week.

A member of the government in Gaza called it “a heroic act”.

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 4:20pm

No

davmol wrote: »

do I care about 2 Israelis SETTLERS?not really.
Settlers are the worst form of scum on the planet-look them up and see what they've done

Again, thank you for your comment.

I would prefer people with views like yours are honest, and didn't try to hide behind euphemistic language.

DrumSteve · 02-10-2015 4:31pm

Regardless of peoples views, 2 people were murdered and children have been orphaned.

I'm struggling to get my head around the mindset that says "this act is okay because people from their community did this..."

The whataboutery in this thread and every thread like it really ****s me off.

Nodin · 02-10-2015 4:38pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

That was a revolting act. Yishai Schlissel, the Israeli who stabbed those teenagers, was quite rightly arrested for murder. I do not want to see him released.

The Israeli government called it a “despicable hate crime”.

.

.....aren't they great. Meanwhile they pander to the kind of extremists that give rise to that kind of thinking, and crimes against Palestinians in the main go unpunished.

DrumSteve · 02-10-2015 4:41pm

Nodin wrote: »

.....aren't they great. Meanwhile they pander to the kind of extremists that give rise to that kind of thinking, and crimes against Palestinians in the main go unpunished.

Can I ask you, as an isolated act, do you think it was okay that these people were killed?

davmol · 02-10-2015 4:56pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Can I ask you, as an isolated act, do you think it was okay that these people were killed?

they are casualties of the conflict that has claimed many lives.Many many more Palestinians.

Whats your opinions of the 500+ Palestinian children and 1800 innocent civilians murdered by Israel?

DrumSteve · 02-10-2015 5:02pm

davmol wrote: »

they are casualties of the conflict that has claimed many lives.Many many more Palestinians.

Whats your opinions of the 500+ Palestinian children and 1800 innocent civilians murdered by Israel?

Whatabout...whatabout...whatabout....

I think it's a tragedy.

Do you think it's okay they were killed?

Eugene Norman · 02-10-2015 5:11pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Whatabout...whatabout...whatabout....

I think it's a tragedy.

Do you think it's okay they were killed?

This thread started with whataboutary. The op even stopped people in the street to argue the whataboutary position.

his entire position is whatabout Israelis.

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 5:14pm

No

Eugene Norman wrote: »

A few days the Israelis killed an 18 year old for being, well, not Jewish.

Do you have a source?

Eugene Norman · 02-10-2015 5:19pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Do you have a source?

Seriously? Surely it made the news.

In any case it's a simple Google.

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 5:25pm

No

Eugene Norman wrote: »

A few days the Israelis killed an 18 year old for being, well, not Jewish.

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Do you have a source?

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Seriously? Surely it made the news.

In any case it's a simple Google.

I have Googled it.

Where is your source showing that Israelis killed an 18 year old not for being Jewish?

I can't find that anywhere on Google.

If that isn't just a lie you invented, please provide a source.

Snake Plisken · 02-10-2015 5:28pm

No

Nodin wrote: »

Hamas were elected in Gaza. This is the west bank, where the majority of Palestinians are. If you're going to comment, it would be nice if you actually has some vague notion of the realities beforehand.

Well if you bothered to read the first post it stated that a Hamas spokesman was delighted with their death and that's what I was referring to, anyway you have been found out on the other thread regarding immigration to be an Islamic apologist.

wes · 02-10-2015 5:30pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

I'm struggling to get my head around the mindset that says "this act is okay because people from their community did this..."

No, its not ok, its a terrible crime.

It should also be pointed that settlers are putting themselves in danger by stealing Palestinian land. Its insane that parents would deliberately put themselves and children in danger like this. There no different than the nutters dragging there entire families to Iraq.

Eugene Norman · 02-10-2015 5:35pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

I have Googled it.

Where is your source showing that Israelis killed an 18 year old not for being Jewish?

I can't find that anywhere on Google.

If that isn't just a lie you invented, please provide a source.

They killed an 18 year old Palestinian girl. She did nothing.

If you can find a record of the Israeli army killing 18 year old Jewish girls for no reason please do share.

MakeEmLaugh · 02-10-2015 5:48pm

No

Eugene Norman wrote: »

A few days the Israelis killed an 18 year old for being, well, not Jewish.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

They killed an 18 year old Palestinian girl. She did nothing.

You are referring to Hadeel al-Hashlamun.

She set off a metal detector because she was carrying a knife.

The Israeli soldiers told her not to move, and shot at her feet.

She then pulled the knife out and advanced towards the Israeli soldiers, after which they shot her.

A photograph of the knife can be seen here.

Am I sorry a young woman was shot dead? Absolutely.

Was she shot because she was not Jewish? No.

The fact that you would say that speaks volumes about your ignorance of the situation.

Eugene Norman · 02-10-2015 6:12pm

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

You are referring to Hadeel al-Hashlamun.

She set off a metal detector because she was carrying a knife.

The Israeli soldiers told her not to move, and shot at her feet.

She then pulled the knife out and advanced towards the Israeli soldiers, after which they shot her.

A photograph of the knife can be seen here.

Am I sorry a young woman was shot dead? Absolutely.

Was she shot because she was not Jewish? No.

The fact that you would say that speaks volumes about your ignorance of the situation.

Of course she was shot for being non Jewish because if she set off an alarm (if she did) and was Jewish she wouldn't have been killed. She didn't advance with the knife either. She stood still

I love the photograph of the knife by the way. That's conclusive. A knife on the ground.

Here the photography of the incident via the daily mail.

No knife until it appears after the shooting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247302/Pictured-18-year-old-university-student-photographed-moments-shot-dead-Israeli-soldiers-checkpoint.html

Nodin · 02-10-2015 6:38pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Can I ask you, as an isolated act, do you think it was okay that these people were killed?

I'm not comfortable with it happening in front of the children, but after that, no, I'm not pushed. They're colonists, they're in an occupied zone.

Snake Plisken wrote:

Well if you bothered to read the first post it stated that a Hamas spokesman was delighted with their death and that's what I was referring to, anyway you have been found out on the other thread regarding immigration to be an Islamic apologist.

Bit of a laugh. I'm against all acts of colonialism and imperialism, whether its in West Papua or the west bank. Others seem to look at certain things and say "o, they're muslim, screw them". I think its fairly clear what the modern view is.

Snake Plisken · 02-10-2015 7:48pm

No

Nodin wrote: »

I'm not comfortable with it happening in front of the children, but after that, no, I'm not pushed. They're colonists, they're in an occupied zone.

Bit of a laugh. I'm against all acts of colonialism and imperialism, whether its in West Papua or the west bank. Others seem to look at certain things and say "o, they're muslim, screw them". I think its fairly clear what the modern view is.

Ah that clears up a good for things regarding your political loyalties, I would say you would have been a strong supporter of the republican movement who had a decent weapon and bomb making business with their buddies in Palestine. A signed up member of Gerry's army.
All is fair if it's a war against so called colonialism in Nodins world view!

hatrickpatrick · 02-10-2015 8:00pm

I don't condone killings of any kind, military or otherwise. Never have.

But for those who take the view that military killing is acceptable while civilian killing is not, then I have to ask - how exactly do you differentiate between a military occupation and a civilian one? Is the view that choosing to move in to someone else's land as part of a military occupation makes you a de facto member of the invading army not a perfectly valid one?

If I choose to take part in a military operation actively, on its front line (in this case, the military driven colonisation of the west bank), then surely just because I don't wear a uniform it doesn't mean that I'm not effectively part of the invading army. Just as Hamas militants who launch rockets are still regarded as military targets despite not wearing a uniform.

If you condone the killing of the latter, then the only logical way you can fail to condone the killing of the former is if you try to argue that a military occupation of someone else's land does not count as an act of aggression. In which case you're going to have to explain that opinion, because it makes little sense to me.

Obviously children are an exception to this since they weren't offered a choice about living in a settlement, but adults who chose to move to land as part of a military occupation should be regarded on the same level as civilians who lob rockets into Israeli land as part of a military occupation.

hatrickpatrick · 02-10-2015 8:04pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Ah that clears up a good for things regarding your political loyalties, I would say you would have been a strong supporter of the republican movement who had a decent weapon and bomb making business with their buddies in Palestine. A signed up member of Gerry's army.
All is fair if it's a war against so called colonialism in Nodins world view!

....so called?

Couple with six children killed in Palestine

Are Israelis fears of Palestinian violence justified? 117 votes

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