Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Creche charging for child's place during closure.

1356718

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    They can't tell anyone for how long, because it depends on how people act now. Will they take this seriously, maintain social distance, self-isolate if necessary.

    The Gov are trying to slow the rate of infection so the health services can cope, but they can't stop others from getting infected. Someone who was in contact with an infected person today, would only start showing symptoms in two weeks, someone who is in contact them will only show symptoms two weeks after that... and so on. So if everything was reopened then, then the cycle will just start again. Its taken China months to start to get a handle on this.

    I'd be very shocked and surprised if creches or primary schools etc will be reopened again before May, if even then. I doubt secondary's will reopen this year.

    A friend of mine who is a Kindergarten teacher in Canada has just started her Spring break but has been told that her school most likely will not reopen at all this year, but will be closed until the new school year in September.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,107 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Have no kids at the age this is needed but just interested. Have most/all creches not also pre-schools so they will be receiving ecce grants for all this time, why would they not pay staff?

    According to our creche, the funding they receive covers 30% of their overheads, the remainder is covered by the fees we pay.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Will the dept pay the creches ecce while there are no kids there though?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,844 ✭✭✭✭somesoldiers


    This is an example of the letters doing the rounds, identifiers removed

    ————————————————————

    16th March 2020
    Dear Parents
    I hope you are all keeping well.
    I hope that this email will bring some clarity to previous correspondence, along with answering some
    questions that have been asked in recent days.

    There have been many comments with regard to the saving we may make in terms of light, heat, food (indirect/variable costs). Our variable costs make up a very small percentage of our operating costs. To be completely transparent these costs amount to approximately €3,000 per month on average per crèche. Our labour costs make up the majority of our operational costs.

    Separately, we need to be clear that under the business interruption section of our insurance policy, we are not covered in the event that the HSE/Government order a blanket closure of childcare settings. You will be aware of the issues facing the childcare industry in terms of the limited number of insurance providers available to operators – I imagine we aren’t the only provider to find ourselves without cover in this situation.
    On Friday the 13thof March we issued correspondence to all parents.
    This correspondence explained our approach to the current Government forced closures. Our rationale is based on 1) child safety, 2) understanding the importance of our colleagues to our business and trying to ensure they are with us when we reopen and 3) supporting our families who find themselves with no income during this unprecedented health crisis.
    The money saved on indirect costs will primarily go towards helping those families most in need at this time. The small variable cost savings are also helping us make a commitment to pay our colleagues for as long as is humanly possible. This is obviously a financial hit to XXXXX, but one that is necessary keeping sustainability in mind.
    We would also like to make you aware that all of our XXXXX colleagues who are being paid are still
    working at this time - whether they are catching up on administration, deep cleaning premises, or providing child-minding free of charge to frontline families - every colleague has been given work to continue on with.
    Our leadership team is also working closely with key stakeholders to try and open on a small capacity to help frontline medics, who as we know, are needed more than ever. Again, if we are sanctioned to open in these circumstances there will be no charge to the families we help. Furthermore, if the Government gives a subsidy for this service we will directly pass this back to our families.
    The public announcement by An Taoiseach Leo Vardakar on Thursday 12th March was when we became aware that all of our services had to close ‪at 6pm‬ that very evening. You will appreciate that we are in the middle of a rapidly evolving situation and nobody has all of the answers at this time. However, we are doing our best to respond to address concerns as soon as they come to our attention.

     At XXXXX we have an ethos of ‘respect for all’ - our children, our families and our colleagues. This ethos makes us who we are. We need to commit to supporting our colleagues with a commitment to pay wages in the short term and hopefully until normality resumes. With this in mind some of our senior executive team are forgoing their wages to help ensure we can do fulfil this our commitment.
    We also need your support. In the case you are currently being paid or are on paid holidays, you should honour our fees policy and pay your fees as you agreed when signing your agreement with
    XXXXX. If you are in difficulty and are not getting paid, please contact our accounts team. We will request simple vouched documentation of your circumstances and will work to adjust your commitments.
    We will be completely transparent in our processes. We will be applying for any pay subsidies and funds available to us in order to support our business. Where we receive funds we will fairly and equally distribute these funds back to families who have supported and paid us during this time.
    Our fees policy will stand during this period, as it is correct, fair and moral. It allows us to support our families most at need, our colleagues and to sustain the service once this crisis has ended.
    You are within your rights to give the agreed notice to terminate your place at one of our services (30 days written notice). However, by doing so please be aware that places will be offered to families who have been on our waiting list and we cannot guarantee there will be availability should you wish for your child/ren to return to one of our services.
    We would like to also highlight the consequences of us not paying our colleagues. The likelihood is that they will find work elsewhere. This will result in XXXXX reducing the number of childcare places available as we will be unable to adhere to ratios in accordance with the childcare regulations. The end result of this being that we will have to shut rooms and give families notice at our services.
    Like you, we are hoping for a speedy end to the unprecedented challenges we are facing, which, we will get through together. We have the difficult task of trying to do what we feel is correct in difficult circumstances. It is not a one size fits all matter and as you can imagine with X children attending
    our services and the livelihoods of X colleagues to think about, we always try our best to be fair and moral. We would ask that you find it in your heart at this difficult time to do the same.
    All of us are going to face hardship during this crisis. However, we hope the social impact of our closure will mean less of us will face the loss of vulnerable loved ones, and hospitals can cope with the numbers who appear needing critical care.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    1874 wrote:
    No doubt the Govt wont inform people in advance, in an effort to try keep businesses afloat, but if this goes on, then the Govt needs to inform us for how long. Ive no intention of paying the next months fee in full, especially with the lack of information so far from the service provider and if its going on for months they can forget about it. Any claim that we'll lose the place will be worth nothing if they are providing no service for months and anyone who pays is mad. Do they expect us to keep paying? for nothing! And then pay on top of that for childcare elsewhere anyway?


    All indicators are pointing to schools not reopening until September. Primary school might make it back for a few weeks in June.

    The EU travel ban is for 30 days initially and might be extended. This is a very strong indicator that crèches will be closed for at least another month but probably longer AND the 30 day ban hasn't even started yet. The lock down in China is still in place so again this points to at least two to three months but probably longer. Northern Ireland are taking about closing schools for four months when they do decide to close them. England are taking about 4 months forced isolation for OAPs and people who are at risk.

    There is absolutely nothing in the media or coming from the government that suggests that this will end within the next month. Gardai and health board have leased vehicles for an initial four months.

    I suggest that you plan for an initial two months with the possibility of it going four months


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    It really is amazing that people are being asked to pay for a service when they are not getting said service.

    It is not any consumers of a service's responsibility to pay staff wages when not availing of a service. There are social supports which are set up to deal with situations like this.

    This will go on until the summer at least so no creche until September probably and when they do reopen they will be crying out for children to fill the places as the economy will be in trouble with unfortunately many people unemployed.

    Don't fall for any emotional blackmail employed by the creches to make you feel like you should pay to keep a place or to contribute to their employees wages


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Parents are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    I presume most places pay a month in advance and pay a month’s deposit, so either way the crèche will get paid till the end of April.

    If people don’t pay they lose their places and their deposits. Where I live childcare is impossible to get. Our local crèche have a grand total of 3 baby spots.

    If crèches are getting full fees the staff should be paid. There is no excuse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Toastytoes


    The suggestion by that crèche that their staff will likely find work elsewhere and not come back is bizarre to say the least. Where are they going to find this work? Every crèche in the country is closed and businesses are closing their doors by the dozen resulting in more and more people at home not requiring child care. Other than the HSE I’m not seeing signs of a recruitment drive in any other sector.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Laserb


    Hi for those of you that have childminders who mind in their home, will you be paying any fees during the lock down? Presumably childminder's can avail of the emergency social welfare payment..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Laserb wrote: »
    Hi for those of you that have childminders who mind in their home, will you be paying any fees during the lock down? Presumably childminder's can avail of the emergency social welfare payment..

    If the childminders who mind in their own homes are registered as self employed, they should be able to claim the social welfare payment, if parents can't pay.

    If they're not registered, and have a cash in hand arrangement with the parents, they won't.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    Millem wrote: »
    Parents are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    I presume most places pay a month in advance and pay a month’s deposit, so either way the crèche will get paid till the end of April.

    If people don’t pay they lose their places and their deposits. Where I live childcare is impossible to get. Our local crèche have a grand total of 3 baby spots.

    If crèches are getting full fees the staff should be paid. There is no excuse.

    Agreed, I actually don't mind paying as normal.as long as the staff get paid as normal (I pay tax as normal and teachers continue to get paid out of that).

    Obviously I'm lucky I'm still getting paid by a multi national as normal.

    When things return to normal we need those places in the creche, and we need the creche to actually reopen - without that it's an even bigger headache.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Millem wrote: »
    Parents are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    I presume most places pay a month in advance and pay a month’s deposit, so either way the crèche will get paid till the end of April.

    If people don’t pay they lose their places and their deposits. Where I live childcare is impossible to get. Our local crèche have a grand total of 3 baby spots.

    If crèches are getting full fees the staff should be paid. There is no excuse.

    Don’t think people pay a month deposit to crèches, I never heard of that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    salmocab wrote: »
    Don’t think people pay a month deposit to crèches, I never heard of that.

    We have (x3)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,107 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Fireball81 wrote: »
    We have (x3)

    Ours was €200 per child and will be deducted from our bill after 6 months which funnily is next month.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    You don’t pay for a service that doesn’t get provided...

    If I had my car booked in for a service tomorrow and the garage is closed, they txt me looking for credit card details? They’d be told to go and fûck themselves.

    My gym membership expires tonight, should I also go online, with my credit card paying for a service they for the time being can’t provide? Will I fûck !

    I usually go for pints on Tuesday, do I get a message from the owner requesting payment of 20 euro so he can keep his staff ?

    Not a hope.. complete bullshît.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Fireball81 wrote: »
    We have (x3)

    Never heard of that before it’s usually a couple of hundred.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,844 ✭✭✭✭somesoldiers


    Strumms wrote: »
    You don’t pay for a service that doesn’t get provided...

    If I had my car booked in for a service tomorrow and the garage is closed, they txt me looking for credit card details? They’d be told to go and fûck themselves.

    My gym membership expires tonight, should I also go online, with my credit card paying for a service they for the time being can’t provide? Will I fûck !

    I usually go for pints on Tuesday, do I get a message from the owner requesting payment of 20 euro so he can keep his staff ?

    Not a hope.. complete bullshît.
    Our local gyms closed yesterday & are both freezing memberships til they open again

    Our Creche are looking for 50% fees to be paid, which while not as bad as others still sticks in the craw. They say they are 30% government funded, the staff are taking a cut (unclear how much but let’s say 1 day or 20%), they will have less variable costs of maybe 10%. So by my reckoning that’s 50+30+20+10 =110%!!

    I will be expecting a revision of their request once the government support is clear, am happy to split the cost difference with the owner


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote:
    If the childminders who mind in their own homes are registered as self employed, they should be able to claim the social welfare payment, if parents can't pay.

    This isn't the case. Most minding kids in their own home avail of a scheme like the rent a room scheme. They can earn up to 15k per year tax free. Anyone availing of this scheme won't be paying PRSI & won't qualify for the social welfare benefit payment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭rainemac


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    This isn't the case. Most minding kids in their own home avail of a scheme like the rent a room scheme. They can earn up to 15k per year tax free. Anyone availing of this scheme won't be paying PRSI & won't qualify for the social welfare benefit payment.

    They have the option to pay prsi of €500 per year if earning under €15,000 and so can avail of jobseekers or self-employed job seekers.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Jade2015


    boc121 wrote: »
    How much is the dole for a creche worker?

    I think 305eur pw is the amount anyone who is applying for the dole under the covid 19 application.
    If for example a creche worker earns 600eur pw I think the government should also put in a scheme where the owner has to pay the short fall amount per week like 295eur for up to six weeks (sort of like a statute redundancy pay.) Then the creche owner should reduce the fees to the parents by about 305eur or slightly more as their electricity Bill's will be lower. Then I think the government should also step in and offer some sort of emergency grant to the creche owners and pay double the children's allowance for two months to ALL parents who receive children's allowance
    That way no one really loses out.
    If creche owners are also still been paid by the government for ECCE schemes etc. Then I think this should also factor into the reduction of fees to parents


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    Strumms wrote: »
    You don’t pay for a service that doesn’t get provided...

    If I had my car booked in for a service tomorrow and the garage is closed, they txt me looking for credit card details? They’d be told to go and fûck themselves.

    My gym membership expires tonight, should I also go online, with my credit card paying for a service they for the time being can’t provide? Will I fûck !

    I usually go for pints on Tuesday, do I get a message from the owner requesting payment of 20 euro so he can keep his staff ?

    Not a hope.. complete bullshît.

    It's not really the same as those examples.

    For all of those you have a choice where to take your business, in some areas (like ours) we don"t have a choice of childcare facilities.

    That is the difference.

    Re our deposit paid, I was confused...the boss confirmed we paid €500 for the 3 kids - refunded when they leave.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    rainemac wrote:
    They have the option to pay prsi of €500 per year if earning under €15,000 and so can avail of jobseekers or self-employed job seekers.

    Exactly how many do you suppose have paid 500 PRSI? Most don't even realise that they were supposed to notify revenue that they were availing of the scheme. It's the same with the rent a room scheme. Almost no one notified revenue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Is it not the case that you pay once the creche can take your child but you dont pay if they are not available to take your child?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭rainemac


    Jade2015 wrote: »
    I think 305eur pw is the amount anyone who is applying for the dole under the covid 19 application.
    If for example a creche worker earns 600eur pw I think the government should also put in a scheme where the owner has to pay the short fall amount per week like 295eur for up to six weeks (sort of like a statute redundancy pay.) Then the creche owner should reduce the fees to the parents by about 305eur or slightly more as their electricity Bill's will be lower. Then I think the government should also step in and offer some sort of emergency grant to the creche owners and pay double the children's allowance for two months to ALL parents who receive children's allowance
    That way no one really loses out.
    If creche owners are also still been paid by the government for ECCE schemes etc. Then I think this should also factor into the reduction of fees to parents

    It's the usual jobseekers amount of €203. €305 is for ppl that have been diagnosed with covid-19


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭rainemac


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Exactly how many do you suppose have paid 500 PRSI? Most don't even realise that they were supposed to notify revenue that they were availing of the scheme. It's the same with the rent a room scheme. Almost no one notified revenue.

    I don't know but prsi is available to them at a reasonable amount per year. Anyways childminders have been notified that they can continue to operate at this time if the choose to so and many probably will.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    rainemac wrote:
    I don't know but prsi is available to them at a reasonable amount per year. Anyways childminders have been notified that they can continue to operate at this time if the choose to so and many probably will.


    Many of the creche workers are now minding children from the closed creche as a nixer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    rainemac wrote: »
    I don't know but prsi is available to them at a reasonable amount per year. Anyways childminders have been notified that they can continue to operate at this time if the choose to so and many probably will.

    I'm pretty sure I read that the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment is not conditional on having enough PRSI contributions being paid.

    Though I am open to correction on that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote:
    I'm pretty sure I read that the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment is not conditional on having enough PRSI contributions being paid.


    They have to have some prsi paid. Otherwise what is to stop stay at home parents from claiming.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    They have to have some prsi paid. Otherwise what is to stop stay at home parents from claiming.

    As I said, I'm pretty sure they said the emergency payment was not subject to "the usual" PRSI contributions, but I can't find anything on line that says it is, either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote:
    As I said, I'm pretty sure they said the emergency payment was not subject to "the usual" PRSI contributions, but I can't find anything on line that says it is, either.


    I heard you & you are correct. You don't have to have paid PRSI for the usual length of time. However you do have to be paying some amount of PRSI to qualify. If you mind children in your own home availing of the 15k tax free and didn't pay PRSI then you aren't entitled to claim.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I heard you & you are correct. You don't have to have paid PRSI for the usual length of time. However you do have to be paying some amount of PRSI to qualify. If you mind children in your own home availing of the 15k tax free and didn't pay PRSI then you aren't entitled to claim.

    Link?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Essentially what the creche is doing is trying to bully people into keeping their revenue stream open and flowing while not providing the service that they are being paid for... while they wait it out if I’m a parent I’m looking for alternative facilities.

    Scenario....If I have a darts team that goes around the pub circuit playing rivals every Saturday night, we always book the same taxi with a people carrier to collect us and take us to the venue and then drop us back... the agreed charge is 60 euros per night, about 260 a month say with tips..... with the games cancelled should that taxi company expect me and my mates to be forking out cash to them for nada ?

    Bullshît, i pay for a service, when that service cannot or is not to be provided regardless of reason, I’m not paying...


  • Administrators Posts: 54,087 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Strumms wrote: »
    Essentially what the creche is doing is trying to bully people into keeping their revenue stream open and flowing while not providing the service that they are being paid for... while they wait it out if I’m a parent I’m looking for alternative facilities.

    Scenario....If I have a darts team that goes around the pub circuit playing rivals every Saturday night, we always book the same taxi with a people carrier to collect us and take us to the venue and then drop us back... the agreed charge is 60 euros per night, about 260 a month say with tips..... with the games cancelled should that taxi company expect me and my mates to be forking out cash to them for nada ?

    Bullshît, i pay for a service, when that service cannot or is not to be provided regardless of reason, I’m not paying...

    Alternative facilities?

    Have you been shopping around for crèche places recently?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote:
    Link?


    Link to what?

    You can't claim any dole, including this one, without some PRSI paid first. The government announced that the requirements of full PRSI duration will be waved. They didn't say people who haven't paid prsi can now claim

    How do you suppose they would know who was working & who wasn't? Without requiring some PRSI paid it would leave the floodgates open for stay at home parents to claim this money. My wife, who hasn't worked outside the home in close to 30 years could claim it if no PRSI was required.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Link to what?

    You can't claim any dole, including this one, without some PRSI paid first. The government announced that the requirements of full PRSI duration will be waved. They didn't say people who haven't paid prsi can now claim

    How do you suppose they would know who was working & who wasn't? Without requiring some PRSI paid it would leave the floodgates open for stay at home parents to claim this money. My wife, who hasn't worked outside the home in close to 30 years could claim it if no PRSI was required.

    I'm not trying to argue with you Sleeper12, but I do remember when they announced the payment on RTE news very clearly, and they said that the payment would be include self employed, and that is was not subject to having made PRSI contributions. I remember it because I was surprised by it.

    I presume only those who are registered as self-employed with Revenue would be able to claim. A childminder claiming the exemption would be registered.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭enricoh


    awec wrote: »
    Alternative facilities?

    Have you been shopping around for crèche places recently?

    Comparing taxis to creches! We know the answer to that already awec!
    Our eldest qualifies for the ecce hours this year. If we don't pay for the next few months it'll be virtually impossible to get another creche for her, plus the creche is on the way to work. Hassle!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote:
    I'm not trying to argue with you Sleeper12, but I do remember when they announced the payment on RTE news very clearly, and they said that the payment would be include self employed, and that is was not subject to having made PRSI contributions. I remember it because I was surprised by it.


    No. They said that it was not subject to the usual requirement of PRSI. The normal requirement is 104 weeks PRSI. You don't have to have the full 104 weeks PRSI to qualify but you need some PRSI paid. If you haven't made any PRSI payments then you haven't been working

    Self employed pay PRSI & are entitled to regular social welfare benefits so they would automatically be entitled to this payment anyway. They only mentioned self employed because many people aren't aware that self employed can get social welfare benefits.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    No. They said that it was not subject to the usual requirement of PRSI. The normal requirement is 104 weeks PRSI. You don't have to have the full 104 weeks PRSI to qualify but you need some PRSI paid. If you haven't made any PRSI payments then you haven't been working

    Self employed pay PRSI & are entitled to regular social welfare benefits so they would automatically be entitled to this payment anyway. They only mentioned self employed because many people aren't aware that self employed can get social welfare benefits.

    Thats not what was said.

    Self employed can pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without paying it - does this mean they "haven't been working?"

    But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    No. They said that it was not subject to the usual requirement of PRSI. The normal requirement is 104 weeks PRSI. You don't have to have the full 104 weeks PRSI to qualify but you need some PRSI paid. If you haven't made any PRSI payments then you haven't been working

    Self employed pay PRSI & are entitled to regular social welfare benefits so they would automatically be entitled to this payment anyway. They only mentioned self employed because many people aren't aware that self employed can get social welfare benefits.

    Thats not what was said. I remember it very clearly.

    Self employed can opt to pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without ever paying it. That doesn't mean they "haven't been working".

    But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭ismat


    AulWan wrote: »
    Thats not what was said. I remember it very clearly.

    Self employed can opt to pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without ever paying it. That doesn't mean they "haven't been working".

    But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.

    This is 100% incorrect


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote: »
    Thats not what was said. I remember it very clearly.

    Self employed can opt to pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without ever paying it. That doesn't mean they "haven't been working".

    But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.
    ismat wrote: »
    This is 100% incorrect


    Eh, it's 100 percent wrong

    I am self employed & I always have had to pay PRSI. Going back 30 years I have had to pay PRSI. This is another Myth that self employed don't pay PRSI. Any self employed person will tell you, you are wrong


    PRSI for Self-Employed

    The class of PRSI contribution paid by self-employed people is Class S.
    All self-employed people aged between 16 years and pensionable age (currently 66 years) with earnings more than a specified amount (currently €5,000 per annum) must pay PRSI.
    This PRSI contribution is either 4% of all your reckonable income, or an annual minimum charge of €500, whichever is greater. Under the self-assessment system, PRSI is paid directly to Revenue together with any other amount due.


    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/80e5ab-prsi-pay-related-social-insurance/


    My original point was that most minding children at home haven't notified revenue that they are doing this in the exact same way that most people renting out rooms haven't notified revenue because they didn't know they had to. You are not availing of the scheme unless you notify revenue.



    Without notifying revenue they are just earning money cash in hand / under the counter & it's illegal Most minding children at home for ridiculously low fee of 5 euro or less per hour haven't notified revenue, don't have police clearance & don't have nanny car insurance & don't have childminder insurance for their home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    My original point was that most minding children at home haven't notified revenue that they are doing this in the exact same way that most people renting out rooms haven't notified revenue because they didn't know they had to. You are not availing of the scheme unless you notify revenue.

    Without notifying revenue they are just earning money cash in hand / under the counter & it's illegal Most minding children at home for ridiculously low fee of 5 euro r haven't notified revenue, don't have police clearance & don't have naor less per hounny car insurance & don't have childminder insurance for their home.

    Eh, if you go back and look at my first post on this, that is actually what I said at the start, until YOU started contradicting me.

    JHFC.

    I may have been wrong about the "compulsory" PRSI for self employed, BUT I am not wrong about what I heard them say about the PRSI conditions for it on RTE.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    AulWan wrote: »
    Eh, if you go back and look at my first post on this, that is actually what I said at the start, until YOU started contradicting me.

    JHFC.

    I may have been wrong about the "compulsory" PRSI for self employed, BUT I am not wrong about what I heard them say about the PRSI conditions for it on RTE.

    You said that you would be happy to be corrected. I corrected you & tbh I don't think you have been happy since.

    Cabin fever maybe :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    AulWan wrote: »
    If the childminders who mind in their own homes are registered as self employed, they should be able to claim the social welfare payment, if parents can't pay.

    If they're not registered, and have a cash in hand arrangement with the parents, they won't.

    THIS is what I said. Then YOU butted in, saying the Pandemic Payment for self employed was dependant on PRSI contributions.

    According to recent posts, PRSI is mandatory so there should be no problem, despite the fact that I clearly heard it reported on RTE, that PRSI contributions were not required to apply to the pandemic payment.

    I asked you to provide a link saying otherwise, you said there wasn't one. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ___


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    I thought it was announced that the business should pay their staff the job seekers amount then claim it back at a later date?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Millem wrote: »
    I thought it was announced that the business should pay their staff the job seekers amount then claim it back at a later date?

    How would that work, with no money coming in?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    How would that work, with no money coming in?

    Social Protection Minister Regina Doherty has asked all employers to try their best in paying employees a minimum of €203 per week.
    She said that all employers who do so will be reimbursed by the government for each of the payments made.

    *
    ‘A temporary refund scheme is being established for this purpose. This refund will be for €203 per worker per week.

    This means that workers retain their link with employers and there is no need for them personally to submit a jobseekers claim.’

    Obviously, with no business coming in the door, it will not be possible for every employer to continue to pay staff over the coming weeks.

    In that situation, Minister Doherty said that the government is also establishing ‘a new Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment specifically designed to get thousands of people into payment as quickly as possible’.

    During the six week period, those who avail of the payment will have to complete a jobseekers’ form.

    (On phone so can’t post links!!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭Arciphel


    So in this scenario, parents continue to pay the creche, the creche pay the employees and then at some stage in the future the creche owner will receive the €203 per worker per week refund. Are they then going to divide that up and give it back to the parents who paid their fees during the closure? Are they going to give it to their employees? No, they are most likely going to trouser it. The only people who will get punished here are the parents who continue to pay the fees.

    Assuming that (unfortunately) most creche staff are on minimum wage that means their pay is about €414 a week. Deduct €203, it's about half. Taking into account the reduction in utilities, food etc. it seems a common sense solution would be to pay half fees during the closure, if you can. I am being off the wall here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭Sebastian Dangerfield


    Arciphel wrote: »
    So in this scenario, parents continue to pay the creche, the creche pay the employees and then at some stage in the future the creche owner will receive the €203 per worker per week refund. Are they then going to divide that up and give it back to the parents who paid their fees during the closure? Are they going to give it to their employees? No, they are most likely going to trouser it. The only people who will get punished here are the parents who continue to pay the fees.

    Assuming that (unfortunately) most creche staff are on minimum wage that means their pay is about €414 a week. Deduct €203, it's about half. Taking into account the reduction in utilities, food etc. it seems a common sense solution would be to pay half fees during the closure, if you can. I am being off the wall here?

    If our creche is anything to go by, they will play hardball with every parent and tell them that everyone else is paying in full, even if that is not the case. They big up things like bringing the kitchen and facilities up to the required standards like they're doing us a favour.

    That's why I will be monitoring here closely and engaging with as many other parents in our creche as possible.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    Our creche sent an email shortly after the closure last week to ask us to keep paying so they can pay their staff. We had already paid March fees for our 2 kids but considering not doing so from April omwards. Realistically the creches are going to be closed for months and our job security is tenous at the moment. Like everything Coronavirus related it's a **** situation but I can't justify paying full amount for service we aren't getting


Advertisement