Special Forces ultimate hell week

Nobelium · 05-05-2019 1:43am

Overall for a RTE civilian tv show, and only a week long, partial re-creation of military selection - it's not as poor as I thought it would be. It would be better if some of the instructors were doing the physical challenges alongside the candidates, just to show them how it's really done. Also the constant shouting and cursing in every sentence lets some of the instructors down. There can be a time and place for it, but it becomes ineffective if you do it constantly. The most intimidating/motivating military instructors I knew could make men shake in their boots without cursing or raising their voices.

I loved seeing "Gummi Bear", the self proclaimed "Alpha male" and conor macgregor wannabe, who also announced beforehand "sure what could a couple of ex-army lads do to him ?", begging to quit early on. All the mouthy ones on the bus heading to the camp were among the first to go. Usually the way.

The most impressive and coolest have been the Russian lad, the Romanian women, and the Irish pro kick-boxer. I'd agree the Russian lad is playing a good game - I'd wager its not his first rodeo, but the instructors are onto him. The Romanian women has the mentality right, but the physical inflictions she's carrying are probably going to over come her. The mouthy attention seeking, time draining, female paramedic wouldn't last long on a real military selection course - She even got away with going out and dumping her mike outside the billet. You'd be instantly binned for doing anything remotely similar to that on a real course. Who would want to depend on / trust someone like that in a real situation ?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 05-05-2019 9:50am

Nobelium wrote: »

Overall for a RTE civilian tv show, and only a week long, partial re-creation of military selection - it's not as poor as I thought it would be. It would be better if some of the instructors were doing the physical challenges alongside the candidates, just to show them how it's really done. Also the constant shouting and cursing in every sentence lets some of the instructors down. There can be a time and place for it, but it becomes ineffective if you do it constantly. The most intimidating/motivating military instructors I knew could make men shake in their boots without cursing or raising their voices.

The instructors have already done everything they're asking the students to do, they've nothing to prove to anyone.. This isn't an MOI class on the GPMG where you show the students (or trained soldier) how to carry out safety precautions, strip/assemble & clean the weapon etc.. Its simple, jump off the bridge, go through the pipe, gimme push ups, leopard crawl etc etc don't require a physical demostration of the action.

Also the constant shouting and cursing in every sentence lets some of the instructors down. There can be a time and place for it, but it becomes ineffective if you do it constantly. The most intimidating/motivating military instructors I knew could make men shake in their boots without cursing or raising their voices.

Yes there can be a place for lots of beasting the lads, on the ground is where you do it at this level. You'll find this comes down many levels on the barrack square & in the section room. But on the ground, the gloves are off, ask the military instructors you know.

Nobelium wrote: »

I loved seeing "Gummi Bear", the self proclaimed "Alpha male" and conor macgregor wannabe, who also announced beforehand "sure what could a couple of ex-army lads do to him ?", begging to quit early on. All the mouthy ones on the bus heading to the camp were among the first to go. Usually the way.

So what you're saying is the methods employed work.

Nobelium wrote: »

The most impressive and coolest have been the Russian lad, the Romanian women, and the Irish pro kick-boxer. I'd agree the Russian lad is playing a good game - I'd wager its not his first rodeo, but the instructors are onto him. The Romanian women has the mentality right, but the physical inflictions she's carrying are probably going to over come her. The mouthy attention seeking, time draining, female paramedic wouldn't last long on a real military selection course - She even got away with going out and dumping her mike outside the billet. You'd be instantly binned for doing anything remotely similar to that on a real course. Who would want to depend on / trust someone like that in a real situation ?

Most of them are grey men, that female boxer is a heat seeker. The show is cutting her an awful lot of slack.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 05-05-2019 9:58am

The Specialist wrote: »

What’s the body count between them? At least Ant on the UK one has genuine experience.

Had a look at your posts, you're a war gamer. Call of Duty & Battlefield, well some of us live in the real world.

In real life here in the Irish defence forces no one talks about combat experience.. If a mission has been a peaceful one then there's nothing to tell, if it was a rough one, well that's about the extent of it with the lads 'Yea, that was a rough trip'. And the lads who've had had rough trips know the craic, and the lads who've been on an easy 'swan batt' trip wonder what it was like.

Soldiers tell their doctors and councilors more than they do to each other, which is kind of a pity.. The lads with combat experience are seen by dose who don't as 'old sweats throwing breaks, so there's little talk.

Nobelium · 05-05-2019 10:27am

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

The instructors have already done everything they're asking the students to do, they've nothing to prove to anyone.. This isn't an MOI class on the GPMG where you show the students (or trained soldier) how to carry out safety precautions, strip/assemble & clean the weapon etc.. Its simple, jump off the bridge, go through the pipe, gimme push ups, leopard crawl etc etc don't require a physical demostration of the action.

I didn't claim they do.

I was talking about the military fitness timed challenges etc. On the SAS one, one of the instructor sets the pace and finished way ahead of even the fittest civilians, some of them who were pro sports people, thus showing that this is a different ballgame in terms to fitness requirements but also that can be done at high level, that's what I was talking about . .not weapons instruction push ups or types of crawls.

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

Yes there can be a place for lots of beasting the lads, on the ground is where you do it at this level. You'll find this comes down many levels on the barrack square & in the section room. But on the ground, the gloves are off, ask the military instructors you know.

If you read what I posted, I already said there was a time and place for it.

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

So what you're saying is the methods employed work.

I don't recall claiming anywhere they don't ?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 05-05-2019 10:50am

I was talking about the military fitness timed challenges etc. On the SAS one, one of the instructor sets the pace and finished way ahead (without even breaking a sweat or being out of breath) of even the fittest civilians, some of them who were pro sports people, thus showing that this is a different ballgame in terms to fitness requirements but also that can be done at high level, that's what I was talking about . .not weapons instruction push ups or types of crawls

I'll just reply to this one because I think the rest is us trying to get across points which aren't working via text discussion and I'm not in the mood foor nit picking at something.

I think this here is a good idea. Like a forced route march, get the DS's out in their gear romping up and over the hills?.. Have they not been doing similar to this?.

Apart from the beasting, there's also a good bit of gentle mentoring going on too.

Talking to someone during the week and asking about the show. Things have had to be cut back for civilians, for example their first scratch was brought back from a five hour scratch to two hours, and that was NOTHING compared with an Operation Scratch that a soldier is put through.

The cursing, insults, roaring and shouting [ie, the beasting] at this level is real, but its real on the ground.. 'On the ground' in military terms means out of the barracks.

It has to be taken in this context, its the real deal.. If someone doesn't like it, change channel but if someone likes the show but questions this well I think its been answered enough in the thread.

Nobelium · 05-05-2019 11:07am

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

I think this here is a good idea. Like a forced route march, get the DS's out in their gear romping up and over the hills?.. Have they not been doing similar to this?.

No, but perhaps they will in other episodes, or perhaps they were, and RTE did not show it, or was cut out, or I could have missed it, but I don't think I did.

Beau · 06-05-2019 5:55am

I think people are being incredibly harsh on number 22. Ok, she got away with the mic incident but she's overcome a number of serious challenges in a matter of a few days; hypothermia, a knee injury, faced a big man in boxing and claustrophobia to name a few. In fact, she has been given no slack in terms of equipment weight to account for her gender for the endurance events. She's done great.

jimbobaloobob · 06-05-2019 7:00am

Beau wrote: »

I think people are being incredibly harsh on number 22. Ok, she got away with the mic incident but she's overcome a number of serious challenges in a matter of a few days; hypothermia, a knee injury, faced a big man in boxing and claustrophobia to name a few. In fact, she has been given no slack in terms of equipment weight to account for her gender for the endurance events. She's done great.

I would agree she has done great, i think what grinds me a bit is the program gives alot of focus to her and each episode i spot people that i didnt know were in it yet, thats television though.

dirtyden · 06-05-2019 1:33pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I would agree she has done great, i think what grinds me a bit is the program gives alot of focus to her and each episode i spot people that i didnt know were in it yet, thats television though.

She has done really well though to be fair. I think the focus on her is she has been on the edge for a few of the tests but pulled through, in particular the claustrophobia. That pipe would have done for me. Plus, as you said, it’s tv and seeing an average sized lady compete with some big lads makes ‘good tv’

Great show though, the DSs come across quite well, at first the berating etc seems crass but after a bit you see it for what it is, they are trying to see what the person has in them. It actually looks quite effective, that psychological pressure.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 07-05-2019 1:11pm

Nobelium wrote: »

No, but perhaps they will in other episodes, or perhaps they were, and RTE did not show it fully, or was cut out, or I could have missed it, but I don't think I did. I've no doubt the DS's could do it if they wanted to though.

I didn't claim it wasn't real, or that there isn't a time and place for it when required, I'm just stating that in my experience, it was interesting that the most effective / authoritative didn't actually curse, and I noticed the same on the SAS show (and I've nothing against cursing if that's what someone is into). Just a small observation, no big deal.

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I'm just home.

Ok, the DS's getting out on a march with the students. It would be a walk in the park for any soldier. We have to maintain a level of fitness, some don't of course but for everyone of us we've all done everything on that show, and more.

Regards the beasting, I haven't seen the SAS show and I can only guess from your comments you've served and had a different experience.

In my experience yes there are people in authority who don't need to be up in recruits faces like this show shows, but I can absolutely assure you that they're surrounded by people who are doing that work for them, for recruits (like these are supposed to be) those people are Gods like platoon Sgt's and Company Sgt's.

We've obviously had different experiences, I'm just putting across mine.

Anyone know what those who go the distance get, have they a best student award?... And again drawing from experience, when its all over you'll see the real men behind the DS, when they're out of that role they'll be different people.

Fair play to the students/recruits (I can't remember how they're being called), although its toned down a lot they're getting a rough going over and all credit to each and every one of them.

jimbobaloobob · 07-05-2019 3:30pm

Good to hear it from your perspective Makiomi
Enjoying the show. Can see and appreciate the need for all aspects of addressing the candidates. It's not a personality contest and if it were for real it would be necessary to break them down and build them up psychologically to do and follow orders and not carry moral high ground while on duty. Show is well worth watching.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 07-05-2019 6:12pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Good to hear it from your perspective Makiomi
Enjoying the show. Can see and appreciate the need for all aspects of addressing the candidates. It's not a personality contest and if it were for real it would be necessary to break them down and build them up psychologically to do and follow orders and not carry moral high ground while on duty. Show is well worth watching.

Cheers.

As I said earlier I was expecting a cringe fest when I sat down for the first show, but I got a very pleasant surprise. And there hasn't been a single negative about the show in work either, everyone's loving it.

Just remembering a funny experience.

I had my daughter in work during her TY work experience and how shocked (and slightly amused) she was when she seen two instances of recruits getting absolutely roasted.

I assured her at the end of training all those lads including the NCO's will be best buds for life and will go through any hardships for each other if the sh*t hits the fan.

Its not The Waltons or Happy Families, we have our ups and downs with each other but I know that if I'm ever in bother there'll be no better people to call upon, and I'd be at their side through sh*t too no matter whatever's happened in out past.

We're soldiers, and will always be soldiers.

MistyCheese · 09-05-2019 9:34pm

It's on. Take a shot every time #22 gets a closeup

stop animal cruelty · 09-05-2019 10:00pm

Where the feck have half the team gone??

harr · 09-05-2019 10:16pm

stop animal cruelty wrote: »

Where the feck have half the team gone??

Dropping like flies ðŸ˜¬

arybvtcw0eolkf · 09-05-2019 10:56pm

Fantastic episode, best one yet.

Had to feel for the two girls taken off the mountain, they were never going to give up. Good call taking them off.

The final remaining girl and applying for the DF.

She obviously applied for the cadets, failing twice and time (age) running out its a pity she wasn't advised to go general enlistment then try the cadets from the enlisted ranks.

Another good call was taking the Nordie guy off (24?).

Really good show. Fair f*cks RTE.

09-05-2019 11:16pm

As good as any of these type of shows that I’ve seen and great because it’s Irish. Next weeks psychological torture and interrogation episode could be brilliant. I saw one about 10 years ago, might have been SAS, just can’t remember- it had an Irish psychiatrist on it if I recall providing guidance throughout but the “capture” episode of that series looked terrifying.

Rows Grower · 10-05-2019 9:40pm

Just caught up with the latest episode.
It gets better every week, I have lost my crush on 22 and have now fallen for number 14 after a brief infatuation with 10.

Mantis Toboggan · 10-05-2019 11:04pm

Good episode.

Thought it was harsh on the Nordie guy. Was the oldest remaining but there seemed to be a personal dislike of him from the DS. First chance he had he got rid of him whereas some others had multiple opportunities. Lack of consistency from the DS and I'm surprised that a personal dislike of someone clouded his judgement.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-05-2019 7:56am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Good episode.

Thought it was harsh on the Nordie guy. Was the oldest remaining but there seemed to be a personal dislike of him from the DS. First chance he had he got rid of him whereas some others had multiple opportunities. Lack of consistency from the DS and I'm surprised that a personal dislike of someone clouded his judgement.

Nah, his cards where marked during the interview and we don't know what went on before that to make him a heat seeker.

But when he bottled what he thought was going to be a night march in the rain, that was him gone.

He was going to let the squad, including his buddy (remember they're on a buddy/buddy system now) go off on that march/patrol and he was going to swan around the billet pretending he's too injured, well like the DS pointed out they're all injured.

This would happen on a selection course, and a lot of other courses too. Depending on time spent an ordinary PDF recruit might also find themselves out on their ear or certainly back platooned (if there was another platoon in training but behind yours).

If a recruit in the PDF wasn't chucked out they'd find life exceptionally tough from that point on and would likely pulled themselves out.

It was a good call.

Right all that said.

I feel for him being the oldest person on whats a physically tough course. I'm 53, I'm very fit and train constantly. When I'm injured it does take longer than it used to. Your ability to recover from strenuous training grows less and less when you break the 40 barrier.

He done great to get where he was, he should be proud of that but he was prepared to let his buddies down. Good call.

Hitchens · 11-05-2019 8:38am

wonder why the long haired guy that the instructors said had previous military experience decided to quit?

Mantis Toboggan · 11-05-2019 9:02am

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

Nah, his cards where marked during the interview and we don't know what went on before that to make him a heat seeker.

Yeah but in his interview they're asking him if he thinks he's a hard man and telling him how **** he is and when the girl is being interviewed they're telling her how great she is. It's the favouritism that annoys me.

Mantis Toboggan · 11-05-2019 9:05am

Hitchens wrote: »

wonder why the long haired guy that the instructors said had previous military experience decided to quit?

Again seemed to be disliked by the DS' and probably would have went same way as the Nordie. They were accusing him of being ex military despite him saying he wasn't so not sure what proof they had of that.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-05-2019 1:03pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Yeah but in his interview they're asking him if he thinks he's a hard man and telling him how **** he is and when the girl is being interviewed they're telling her how great she is. It's the favouritism that annoys me.

I get you now.

I think it comes down to attitude. The girl has previously applied to join the DF, and I'm assuming it was for the cadets because it would be very unusual for a girl to be passed over twice for general enlistment.

If you read back I picked up on, and touched upon this. She has a great attitude and that's why I said previously had she gotten better advice when time was running out she should have went into the DF as enlisted (as opposed to a commissioned officer) and from there she could have worked towards either a potential officers course, or re engage as a cadet from the enlisted ranks.

Best way I can describe it is like a teen with a low leaving cert course going through the PLC route into third level education (this is what one of mine done).

The nordie lad never showed any of that attitude and potential, this may not be getting picked up by civilians but its glaringly obvious to a soldier looking at the show.

Everything I see in her is soldier, she's showing great attitude. She carries herself like a soldier, I think its a pity she never got the advice to go general enlistment because going by her attitude in the show she'd have been a fine soldier.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-05-2019 1:08pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Again seemed to be disliked by the DS' and probably would have went same way as the Nordie. They were accusing him of being ex military despite him saying he wasn't so not sure what proof they had of that.

They might have had some intel on him, or he may have done some things on the course which we didn't see which only a soldier would be comfortable with.

He's also coming from a country with conscription.

The DS's aren't stupid, and people lie about their past for all sorts of good and bad reasons all the time.

There might have been a very good reason why he wishes to keep his previous military service from the public and decided to cut his loses and quit.

I'm only guessing, but its very easy for a soldier to see another soldier.

deisemum · 12-05-2019 6:11pm

Enjoyable show, soldiers are not paid enough for what they do.

Hitchens · 12-05-2019 7:00pm

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

They might have had some intel on him, or he may have done some things on the course which we didn't see which only a soldier would be comfortable with.

He's also coming from a country with conscription.

The DS's aren't stupid, and people lie about their past for all sorts of good and bad reasons all the time.

There might have been a very good reason why he wishes to keep his previous military service from the public and decided to cut his loses and quit.

I'm only guessing, but its very easy for a soldier to see another soldier.

He could be ex FFL, no?

jimbobaloobob · 12-05-2019 9:51pm

Allez le bleu but I don't think so.

Altreab2 · 12-05-2019 11:06pm

Hitchens wrote: »

He could be ex FFL, no?

Didnt the DS make a comment about his "Spetnaz experience that he never informed them about" ? He was about to go on the zipline at the time.

jimbobaloobob · 12-05-2019 11:20pm

Altreab2 wrote: »

Didnt the DS make a comment about his "Spetnaz experience that he never informed them about" ? He was about to go on the zipline at the time.

I remember hearing that alright I thought they might be just trying to call his bluff. I had the impression he maybe have done his mandatory years as many have to do and that might be the extent of his experience.

Muahahaha · 13-05-2019 12:37am

Just watching the latest episode now on repeat. Must say it is a gripping program, there is a lot of tension on who is going to make it. I was cynical at episode one but now I'm the complete opposite, its a really enjoyable program and Ive so much respect for the participants and what they are going through.

Anyone know what country the guy with the long hair who quit is from? I thought I got a bit of a Finnish accent and know they have conscription for two years there.

Also the 20kms/4 hour mountain walk challenge, anyone know what route they used aside from climbing Tongalee? Would love to give that route a shot sometime, if only to find out how much off the pace I would be

jimbobaloobob · 13-05-2019 12:49am

Dimitryvinokourov.com is his website he's a professional actor with some work done in Finland.

Muahahaha · 13-05-2019 1:30am

ah right, I see from his CV that he was born in Moscow but has worked in Finland. Surely the DS would have known that he had military experience as a Russian national? Im not sure why he quit either, he looked like one of the strongest. Had a good laugh when the DS said to him he could report back that he did well on the course to his superiors lol

Richard tea · 16-05-2019 2:06am

Rte screw up 99% of these productions but I have to say this show is very well done. I have yet to watch episodes 3 and 5. I have watched the sas version over the last few years and the Irish ranger one looks much tougher.

Sittingpretty · 16-05-2019 7:54am

Anyone know how many episodes are left? Is tonight’s the last?

bookworms · 16-05-2019 8:22am

Final episode next week. Tonight's episode delayed due to Eurovision coverage

Sittingpretty · 16-05-2019 8:56am

bookworms wrote: »

Final episode next week. Tonight's episode delayed due to Eurovision coverage

Thanks!

Muahahaha · 16-05-2019 2:55pm

bookworms wrote: »

Final episode next week. Tonight's episode delayed due to Eurovision coverage

Balls, I was looking forward to tonights episode.

On another point I don't think you could get two programs that are so diametrically opposed as the Eurovision and a bunch of civilians doing an army selection course :pac:

16-05-2019 3:35pm

bookworms wrote: »

Final episode next week. Tonight's episode delayed due to Eurovision coverage

delayed as in postponed to later in the night or until next week??
say the former please, I'm liking this program especially the shouty tall Liam Neeson lad with the dodgy walk!

Cazale · 16-05-2019 3:38pm

Muahahaha wrote:

Balls, I was looking forward to tonights episode.

It's on tonight at 22:20.

Muahahaha · 16-05-2019 9:30pm

Cazale wrote: »

It's on tonight at 22:20.

phew!

Mam of 4 · 16-05-2019 10:20pm

Confession time .:o
I thought at the start of the show , that it was hammed up for the cameras, to make good tv .
Until I spoke with a family member who is retired from the Forces now . So apologies for doubting and a massive thank you to those who serve our country .

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-05-2019 11:35pm

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Confession time .:o
I thought at the start of the show , that it was hammed up for the cameras, to make good tv .
Until I spoke with a family member who is retired from the Forces now . So apologies for doubting and a massive thank you to those who serve our country .

Great isn't it?.

Now imagine doing this for a career!.

Great show.

Muahahaha · 16-05-2019 11:58pm

Really enjoyed tonights episode, especially the bit where they were blindfolded and thought they were going to the next room only to walk into the canal lol! The only thing missing was for the DS to let off a few rounds of a gun when they were all lying blindfolded together, that would have freaked them out. The Dublin Fire Brigade lad was gas too, especially his escape attempt out the window while all the others were doing jumping jacks, I split myself laughing at that haha

Mam of 4 · 17-05-2019 8:47am

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

Great isn't it?.

Now imagine doing this for a career!.

Great show.

I should have worded my posts better , I meant I thought the shouting /in their faces was hammed up , not the whole programme !

arybvtcw0eolkf · 17-05-2019 9:48pm

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I should have worded my posts better , I meant I thought the shouting /in their faces was hammed up , not the whole programme !

God no, nothing hammed up at all. I really can't pick fault with the show and I hope if RTE is to do another one that they follow the same format.

If I could change one thing, and I'm not sure it could realistically be done is I'd swap those bars they carry as weapons for replicates of real rifles, but that might bring in issues in regards to security.

For added realism you could also add in loaded chest rigs and flakers (body armor with 15kg plates lol).

lotsobear · 19-05-2019 12:27am

What strikes me as none if the instructors strike me as the "grey man" type normally associated with special forces

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-05-2019 12:03pm

lotsobear wrote: »

What strikes me as none if the instructors strike me as the "grey man" type normally associated with special forces

An instructor is never the grey man just as they're never the heat seeker either.

Roadtoad · 19-05-2019 12:17pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Also the 20kms/4 hour mountain walk challenge, anyone know what route they used aside from climbing Tongalee? Would love to give that route a shot sometime, if only to find out how much off the pace I would be

IMHO:
Glenmacnass car park, Kanturch, Scarr, Dry Hill, Paddock Hill, cross R113 road and stream at wooden bridge, Brockagh, Tonelagee, ESB car park into Turlough Hill centre.
If you do it in a single burst, from the top of Tonelagee, return to your own car at Glenmacnass, instead of the ESB park.
If you can do it in summer without the 45kg burden, return and give it a shot fully loaded in winter. No, don't. That gang had huge safety backup, and needed it for some of the volunteers.

East West Mapping have the best maps.

Muahahaha · 19-05-2019 7:03pm

Sounds good, must look into it further. And no, I won't be doing it in winter or taking 45kg of dead weight either :pac:

Special Forces ultimate hell week

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